Barsexual vs. Bisexual

I'm a bisexual woman.
...
Really.
Understand?
Because my now-ex-girlfriend doesn't.

Sometimes, when I'm single, I get horny, like any other singleton. I want to pick someone up and maybe see if there's anyone good or ask my friends to set me up. Something of that nature. But, purely sexual, if I were to head to a bar and look for a one-night stand, I would go to a straight bar because men are more inclined to that than women.

A few months ago, I went to a lesbian bar and got to talking. You know, one of those chats. It eventually moved to her apartment and... stuff went down. Good, solid sex. It was fun, not the best, but I really liked her. And our relationship grew until it got to that place where, maybe, I thought I could love her.

Now, my very first boyfriend, first kiss etc, is a good friend of mine. Especially since he's engaged to my cousin. Childhood friend and all that, and when him and my girlfriend were hanging out while I was at work, they talked about me and the next thing I know I got a text from him that said he was sorry.

My girlfriend didn't like that I was bisexual. It was a real good rant, too. Spittle flying and hair waving like a flag. I'm shaking with rage right now, but that's beside the point. She thought that I was cheating, that I didn't really like her. She got into our bedroom habits and I admit it: I don't particularly like to go down on a girl, so it was never my first choice, but I made an effort for her.

Of course I explained this, but then came the volcano.

I wasn't like her.

I couldn't understand getting fired for being "lesbian", I couldn't understand what getting kicked out for being gay felt like, I couldn't understand what being stared at for giving my girl a kiss in public felt like because I could marry a man one day and be normal. Now, I admit she's had a hard life with her sexuality but I'm not squeaky either. My mom and I have lost our relationship because I'm bi, and my boss glossed me over for a promotion I knew I deserved after I brought my girlfriend (a previous one) to an office party.

And the word she used was "barsexual", a woman who experiments with lesbianism and bisexuality for the hell or it, or the blood-alcohol level. And I decided to try an experiment with disastrous results last week. I went to lesbian bars and introduced myself as bi, or I told them later in casual conversation, they grew cold as distant. Soon, half the bar knew and I felt like I'm back in Gym class and no one wants to be my partner.

[/Rant]



Have any other bisexuals had this issue with gay people? That they think you aren't right or even don't exist, maybe on the way to coming out or just experimenting?

If you've been on lit for a while you will know that there are people like this here as well. (I am not trying to pick a fight and those folks will say their piece themselves, I am sure, so I will leave that to them - I can understand some of the points they make and why some people might feel that way, but as I'm of the "why can't we all just get along" school of thought, it makes me sad. Of course, being a heteroflexible white male who isn't publicly 'out' as bi I haven't had to endure the discrimination and violence that gays and lesbians do, so it's easy for me to condemn the "you aren't one of us" attitude whether it comes from straights or queers.) I guess sometimes you have to take these things on a person-by-person basis and hope that you hook up with someone who is accepting of your wider range of preferences.

Is it possible that she's just afraid of losing you? After all, it came to a head after an ex got in touch.

I've not had many same sex relationships but one guy told me - unprovoked - that he knew he couldnt give me what a girl could and so didnt expect anything long term.

Perhaps she's just insecure, thinks youre a little out of her league and would be that way even if she didnt know you were bi?

Your ex was wrong about you being barsexual, since you and she kept on seeing each other for months!

And she's pretty dogmatic about sexual practices too. Plenty of straight men don't like to eat pussy-- plenty of solidly gay women don't eat pussy.

Honest.

You not caring for it but being willing anyway-- that should count for something. But evidently for your ex-- it doesn't count.

Yes, unfortunately it's common. I don't know what the answer is. Meet older women, maybe.

...

Tiger1978 said:

Perhaps she's just insecure, thinks youre a little out of her league and would be that way even if she didnt know you were bi?

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It's flattering to think I'd be outta her league. If anything it's the opposite. I thought I had really scored to land her.

But, no, I think she was one of those exes who completely blindsides you. Looking back, she had her anger-management problems before and a bit of a prejudice streak. Both are things that I could never handle in the long run, so it was probably good that it broke off with me learning something: the local lesbian community isn't friendly towards bi's.

I know I'm not barsexual. I realized my sexuality early on and have come to terms that I am kind of stuck in the middle between two communities.

I can't be arsed!

elysium_quester said:

It's flattering to think I'd be outta her league. If anything it's the opposite. I thought I had really scored to land her.

But, no, I think she was one of those exes who completely blindsides you. Looking back, she had her anger-management problems before and a bit of a prejudice streak. Both are things that I could never handle in the long run, so it was probably good that it broke off with me learning something: the local lesbian community isn't friendly towards bi's.

I know I'm not barsexual. I realized my sexuality early on and have come to terms that I am kind of stuck in the middle between two communities.

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Here's the deal: (and this has nothing really to do with you cuz I don't know you so PLEASE don't take this personally).

1. MANY lesbians don't have relationships/on offs/fuck/friendships that could become relationships/whatever with bi chicks because we are SERIOUSLY squicked by the idea of having sex with a man OR having sex with somebody who has recently been with a man OR WHO WE DON'T BELIEVE TO BE as committed as we are to that concept. If your GF is anything like me, having a prior bf recent enough that he would feel comfortable texting you is WAY to close.

2. Because many of us feel this way we don't want to even get to know you in regards to sex (and let's face it - that's what the bar scene is usually about if you're single). That's our CHOICE! We don't want anything to do with dick or people that do! If we met outside of the bar scene and got to know each other, once I learned you were bi - there would STILL be a level of separation.

Bottom line is I'm not interested in heteros because they are a different orientation than I am. SO ARE BISEXUALS!

Doesnt mean you aren't a nice, wonderful, great person. You just don't do it for me, K? (and your prior GF might feel he same way, but tried to get past it BECAUSE you are such a nice, wonderful, great person (who won't eat pussy *ahem*).

BTW, I do find it funny that you are about the gazillionth bi chick coming on here "bitchin" about how mean us rude 'ol lesbians are for DARING not to be interested in you. If we seem pissy it's because after a gazillion times it gets seriously old being told you don't have a right to decide who you want to fuck, ya know????

Interestingly enough, I've never had that problem in RL, either with not being strait enough or not being gay enough- I have had issues with an ex who didn't like being in a room full of people I had slept with and bitched me out over it because he asked me if I would sleep with them still, and I said, "No, because I respect you and love you and whatnot."

And he was like, "Yeah, but if you were single, would you?"

And I responded, "Yeah," because it was TRUE. And that caused major problem. Wasn't because they were chicks (they were) and he was all 'vaginas are gross' or anything- he was completely strait except for me (long story) he was just pissed that I was still sexually attracted to other people, as if that were my fault. WTF?

But strangely, I have seen that prejudice on this board, and it's always come from women, so it seems like women are a bit more sensitive on this subject. For relationships, I've always had a 'take me as I am or fuck right off' attitude, so folk who date me know I swing whichever way I feel, and either accept that I love them and won't cheat- or throw a bitch fit and ruin a perfectly good weekend.

candicame said:

Interestingly enough, I've never had that problem in RL, either with not being strait enough or not being gay enough- I have had issues with an ex who didn't like being in a room full of people I had slept with and bitched me out over it because he asked me if I would sleep with them still, and I said, "No, because I respect you and love you and whatnot."

And he was like, "Yeah, but if you were single, would you?"

And I responded, "Yeah," because it was TRUE. And that caused major problem. Wasn't because they were chicks (they were) and he was all 'vaginas are gross' or anything- he was completely strait except for me (long story) he was just pissed that I was still sexually attracted to other people, as if that were my fault. WTF?

But strangely, I have seen that prejudice on this board, and it's always come from women, so it seems like women are a bit more sensitive on this subject. For relationships, I've always had a 'take me as I am or fuck right off' attitude, so folk who date me know I swing whichever way I feel, and either accept that I love them and won't cheat- or throw a bitch fit and ruin a perfectly good weekend.

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So in other words, YOU can have a "take me as I am" attitude, but nobody else damn well better or they are "throwing a bitch fit. Right!

BTW, that's not only hypocritical, but sexist as well! Good job with THAT, pig. You got a two-fer!

Safe_Bet said:

So in other words, YOU can have a "take me as I am" attitude, but nobody else damn well better or they are "throwing a bitch fit. Right!

BTW, that's not only hypocritical, but sexist as well! Good job with THAT, pig. You got a two-fer!

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SB, I can throw just as big a bitch fit as anyone else. I think we already had this bitch off. You really wanna take another thread to do it in? No one outcrazies me, bitch.

*snap snap snap*

candicame said:

SB, I can throw just as big a bitch fit as anyone else. I think we already had this bitch off. You really wanna take another thread to do it in? No one outcrazies me, bitch.

*snap snap snap*

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Love to see you hot

I think it's especially difficult for many bisexual people to understand the attitude some strictly gay people have because our sexuality compels us to pursue a relationship with someone to whom we're attracted without regard to sexual identity. Our sexual identity tells us that gender is irrelevant, which often leads us to believe sexual identity is irrelevant as well. Straight men go for straight women. Straight women go for straight men. That's easy enough for us to understand. But because we think of ourselves as part gay and part straight, we expect gay people to see us as one of them, and straight people to see us as one of them. Quite the opposite, I believe, is true: gay people think we're a variation of straight and straight people think we're a variation of gay. Instead of doubling our chance of getting laid (the common bisexual claim), we've exponentially decreased our chance of enjoying a meaningful long-term relationship.

I understand how gender is entirely relevant to some. Straight men don't like penises. Straight women don't like vaginas. (Funny thing... spell check in this forum does not like vaginas either--prefers the term vaginae.) I also understand why gay men and lesbian women can perceive a relationship with a bisexual person to be an unacceptable risk. Some bisexual people come off as being a bit promiscuous and perhaps unreliable. What I do not understand is how anyone who has broken the bonds of sexual paradigms can perceive sexuality to be as relevant as gender. I'm not saying it's not a valid belief, I'm just saying I don't subscribe to it.

Bisexual men and women are not limited in their sexual desire for men or women. But let's face it, we can be limited in our relationship desire for men or women. How many would pursue a long-term relationship with a person who identified as being straight? Like a "man who likes women but craves cock" type? I know I wouldn't. Is that hypocritical? A double standard? I don't think so, because it's mostly about how successful I think that particular relationship would be in the long term. Would I fuck that person if I found them attractive and was single? Probably. But the key there would have to be that a) I was attracted to them, and b) I was single. Can that be perceived as a lack of sexual integrity? I dunno. Maybe that's at the root of this issue and may be what Safe_Bet is talking about.

If the first draft of my 30-page senior thesis wasn't due today by midnight, I could go on... but since I only have a fraction of it done, I'd better focus my efforts there for now.

Vaginae is the latin way to to do it like penes, vulvae, labia (labium), testes (testis), scrota, or clitorides. All the science words come from latin.

She sounds like someone who thinks of her lesbianism as not only her sexual orientation, but her entire reason for being. She doesn't see herself as a person first, and a lesbian second. And that is her prerogative if she wants to frame her world that way.

But she is missing out on all the wonderful people who she could otherwise get to know and love. Your very existence threatens her world view, so she needs to reject you.

I'm more in your camp: I like people that I like, and I can find joy in either style of genitalia.

Stray strong! You have the right attitude Morgana

CJontherocks said:

I think it's especially difficult for many bisexual people to understand the attitude some strictly gay people have because our sexuality compels us to pursue a relationship with someone to whom we're attracted without regard to sexual identity. Our sexual identity tells us that gender is irrelevant, which often leads us to believe sexual identity is irrelevant as well. Straight men go for straight women. Straight women go for straight men. That's easy enough for us to understand. But because we think of ourselves as part gay and part straight, we expect gay people to see us as one of them, and straight people to see us as one of them. Quite the opposite, I believe, is true: gay people think we're a variation of straight and straight people think we're a variation of gay. Instead of doubling our chance of getting laid (the common bisexual claim), we've exponentially decreased our chance of enjoying a meaningful long-term relationship.

I understand how gender is entirely relevant to some. Straight men don't like penises. Straight women don't like vaginas. (Funny thing... spell check in this forum does not like vaginas either--prefers the term vaginae.) I also understand why gay men and lesbian women can perceive a relationship with a bisexual person to be an unacceptable risk. Some bisexual people come off as being a bit promiscuous and perhaps unreliable. What I do not understand is how anyone who has broken the bonds of sexual paradigms can perceive sexuality to be as relevant as gender. I'm not saying it's not a valid belief, I'm just saying I don't subscribe to it.

Bisexual men and women are not limited in their sexual desire for men or women. But let's face it, we can be limited in our relationship desire for men or women. How many would pursue a long-term relationship with a person who identified as being straight? Like a "man who likes women but craves cock" type? I know I wouldn't. Is that hypocritical? A double standard? I don't think so, because it's mostly about how successful I think that particular relationship would be in the long term. Would I fuck that person if I found them attractive and was single? Probably. But the key there would have to be that a) I was attracted to them, and b) I was single. Can that be perceived as a lack of sexual integrity? I dunno. Maybe that's at the root of this issue and may be what Safe_Bet is talking about.

If the first draft of my 30-page senior thesis wasn't due today by midnight, I could go on... but since I only have a fraction of it done, I'd better focus my efforts there for now.

Click to expand...

Good luck on your thesis!!

Safe_Bet said:

1. MANY lesbians don't have relationships/on offs/fuck/friendships that could become relationships/whatever with bi chicks because we are SERIOUSLY squicked by the idea of having sex with a man OR having sex with somebody who has recently been with a man OR WHO WE DON'T BELIEVE TO BE as committed as we are to that concept. If your GF is anything like me, having a prior bf recent enough that he would feel comfortable texting you is WAY to close.

...

BTW, I do find it funny that you are about the gazillionth bi chick coming on here "bitchin" about how mean us rude 'ol lesbians are for DARING not to be interested in you. If we seem pissy it's because after a gazillion times it gets seriously old being told you don't have a right to decide who you want to fuck, ya know????

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I'm not bitchin about how I'm treated, I'm just wondering the reasons why and you answered that: some lesbians are squicked by dick. I don't want a big argument on bisexuality, but just some info on how gays view us. I get that I'm under a different "label" than lesbians, but I didn't think it would be that big of a problem.

You don't need to be interested in me.

elysium_quester said:

I'm not bitchin about how I'm treated, I'm just wondering the reasons why and you answered that: some lesbians are squicked by dick. I don't want a big argument on bisexuality, but just some info on how gays view us. I get that I'm under a different "label" than lesbians, but I didn't think it would be that big of a problem.

You don't need to be interested in me.

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If a woman isn't interested in me, I move on. I don't ask why That's just fucking weird to me. Is it just me, or....? "Why won't you fuck me?" LOL

Bitching and whining (or ranting as you like to put it) and asking "why?" isn't going to get you any closer to the pussy you don't want to eat anyways, so no big deal, right?

girlsmiley said:

If a woman isn't interested in me, I move on. I don't ask why That's just fucking weird to me. Is it just me, or....? "Why won't you fuck me?" LOL

Bitching and whining (or ranting as you like to put it) and asking "why?" isn't going to get you any closer to the pussy you don't want to eat anyways, so no big deal, right?

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Because rejection for no reason, or a stupid reason, is worth getting pissed about. You want to know that there's a good reason, or if you dodged a bullet. She dodged a bullet, like she said in her other posts, anger management problems, trust issues, the like. The blow up was a symptom, not a problem. If
you're in a relationship with someone, it's not just sex- so when it's terminated, it's in most folk's nature to want to know what happened.

candicame said:

Because rejection for no reason, or a stupid reason, is worth getting pissed about. You want to know that there's a good reason, or if you dodged a bullet. She dodged a bullet, like she said in her other posts, anger management problems, trust issues, the like. The blow up was a symptom, not a problem. If
you're in a relationship with someone, it's not just sex- so when it's terminated, it's in most folk's nature to want to know what happened.

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Hang on Candi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhosAvettHk

Sorry, totally unrelated urge to listen Billy Ocean

Honey -- And I know this will come as a huge surprise to many people -- being rejected is not completely foreign to me

I don't get upset when a woman doesn't want to fuck me. They don't have to give me a reason! I don't expect anything from anyone. Works for me!

Also, loving that you're fashioning a suit. Hawt!

CJontherocks said:

Our sexual identity tells us that gender is irrelevant, which often leads us to believe sexual identity is irrelevant as well. Straight men go for straight women. Straight women go for straight men. ... Bisexual men and women are not limited in their sexual desire for men or women.

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I've only met a few people who identify as bisexual who are like that. The majority of people who identify as bisexual have a sexual preference for one sex/gender over the other, which is why so many of them are inclined to identify as gay or lesbian before they identify as bisexual. We have posters like that on this board, and it sometimes turns into a "How do you define bisexuality?" debate.

This whole discussion seems a little odd, at least from the reasons being put forward by Safe Bet and such, as if sex was the whole reason a bisexual boy or gal might be upset about being dumped for being bi. Well... not really.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that orientation should be taken off the table as a reason for not engaging in a relationship, but it's still bothersome to me. Mostly because, honestly, I'd hope that who I am as a person would mean far more to anybody wishing to be with me than my orientation. I'm no more defined by the kind of equipment I like to fuck than anyone straight or gay, and surprisingly just because I'm mentally capable of having sex with both men and women doesn't mean that I want to all the time, or that I'm incapable of restricting myself to one gender, or one right individual.

If there's a squicky component to it, I can understand that being an obstacle and I certainly don't mean to diminish that, it just doesn't seem to be the issue that broke the OP up with her ex. The argument that they had, the "you can't understand what it's like to be a real gay person, you can just go back to being normal" is the one I've been exposed to myself, and it's the one that makes the least sense to me. Leaving aside the very obvious fact that yes we can choose to be in a "normal," relationship with someone of the opposite sex but are choosing not to to be with a person of the same sex should imply some level of devotion but... well, it just seems really strange and a little hypocritical to me that a gay person would discriminate against a person based on their sexual orientation.

I'm sure there'll be a few people that'll argue I'm missing something, but seriously...

I went to a lunchtime discussion group recently at UCLA on this very subject.

The concept of "monosexuality" came up-- people who can only be interested in one particular sex, be it opposite or same, and can't fathom bisexuality.

Stella_Omega said:

I went to a lunchtime discussion group recently at UCLA on this very subject.

The concept of "monosexuality" came up-- people who can only be interested in one particular sex, be it opposite or same, and can't fathom bisexuality.

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Okay, I definitely fall into that catagory! I can intellectual understand that there are bisexuals, but I sure can't emotionally understand why.

So what did they say????

girlsmiley said:

Hang on Candi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhosAvettHk

Sorry, totally unrelated urge to listen Billy Ocean

Honey -- And I know this will come as a huge surprise to many people -- being rejected is not completely foreign to me

I don't get upset when a woman doesn't want to fuck me. They don't have to give me a reason! I don't expect anything from anyone. Works for me!

Also, loving that you're fashioning a suit. Hawt!

Click to expand...

And I wouldn't care if she didn't want to fuck me. I'd care if she didn't want to be in a relationship with me. There's a difference. She wasn't trying to get laid, she was asking about a relationship.

And I'm actually making that suit. I need a good pimp suit to get me back in the game. It's actually a cosplay of the Once-ler. I gotta lose some weight beforehand though or with something that formfitting I'm just gonna look disgusting. God, it is so hard to lose weight when you have an appetite- I hate this shit. How do you get it to go away without narcotics? It's like... I crave food every few hours like it's a fucking drug. I'm up to 156lbs, even though I've been exercising my ass off. My BMI is like, 24.

That has nothing to do with bisexulaity as much as body issues- back on subject- I've never been dumped because I was bi, but I'm also a pretty flaming bi guy, inasmuch as I like androgeny, so I think that lack of "strait passing" is part of the reason why I don't get so much shit for it. You'd probably be more likely to mistake me for gay then strait. For some reason, the women I've been with like that aspect- but I also have a difficult time changing my personality- not that I don't want to for love, some of you will remember me trying my damndest to shut down my sexuality and flirty personality for my ex, and that taking so long may be a big factor in why we aren't together anymore.

But I still think that your bisexuality isn't the real reason you broke up, I think people who think like she did, who are incapable of understanding that you're no less likely to cheat, and that she can give you what you need from a guy with a strap-on, stems from trust issues. I just don't understand that, "you'll cheat on me because you want something I can never give you," bitch- I mean, I'm with a chick and I get a craving for cock, they make strap-ons for that very reason. If I'm with a guy and I want to fuck someone, I'll top. I don't really fuck women because I like pussy- I like their reactions and the way that they feel, physically and emotionally- I can get that from a guy. I honestly don't top that much, though, even with women, I like being dominated, whether that's being ridden or whatever is more up to the dom. That's why I don't really even identify as bisexual, I identify as "submissive" the gender of my partner is more or less irrelevant to me. Personality is the dominating factor in who I select for a mate, especially if it's someone that I want to be in a relationship with.

CJontherocks said:

But because we think of ourselves as part gay and part straight, we expect gay people to see us as one of them, and straight people to see us as one of them. Quite the opposite, I believe, is true: gay people think we're a variation of straight and straight people think we're a variation of gay.

I also understand why gay men and lesbian women can perceive a relationship with a bisexual person to be an unacceptable risk [...] it's mostly about how successful I think that particular relationship would be in the long term.

Click to expand...

I think your first paragraph is one of the best expositions I've heard of this.

The second part also appears to me to be one of the main reasons why the 'monosexuals' prefer not to take chances with bis. Perhaps there's something more complicated to it, but as I see it we're in relationships for two reasons - we want to share our lives and emotions with a significant other, and we want sex. The first leads to the fear of rejection for the assumably-preferred sex (i.e. a bi man leaving another man for a woman) and the other seems to be some sort of visceral heterophobia (homophobia for straights) i.e. 'lips that have touched dick [or pussy] will never touch mine'.

People being people, and being socialized as we are, we all carry this baggage and it's very hard to escape from. I certainly don't tout bis as 'superior' because we can swing both ways. I can understand how gays might see us as riding on their bandwagon and having gained the right to express ourselves as we like because of their sweat and tears, while the homophobes reject us as gay. Perhaps some day that will change.