Joe Patreno dead, interesting how perspectives change.

So Joe Paterno has passed away.

http://news.yahoo.com/ex-penn-state-coach-joe-paterno-dead-85-152611266--abc-news.html


They say timing is everything and had he passed a year ago, he would have been remembered as an Icon, a legend, and if you drank the kool aid down in Penn damn near a saint.

But alas just months ago Joe Pa was revealed for what he was. An asshole. A loser who turned his head and looked the other way while underprivileged boys were being sexually molested in the very facility he owed his fame to.

An accessory to every instance of rape that happened since his buddy Jerry was caught the first time, and who the hell knows how long he knew before that.

I'm sure many down there realize this and will mourn the fact that the final impression this man left on us was that of an aid to a child molester.

I however, will not. I am glad that before he passed he was revealed for what he was, and glad that right now many people are thinking what I am thinking.

Good, he deserved it. Things happen as they were meant to, and what comes around goes around.

So have fun being ass raped in hell for all eternity, Joe you earned it.

Joe Patreno never did the rape he was accused of not doing enough to report it. but all he had to offer the police was heresay evidence. The man who saw the boy in the shower didn't go to the cops either but he is being played up as a hero. that is BS.

What perspective changed? The general opinion is that child molestation is sick and criminal. The general opinion is that anyone who is involved with such is beyond the pale.

Many people manage to hide shit, but if they get caught they are no longer able to hide shit. The perspective hasn't changed. They have stepped into view.

masked_maiden said:

Joe Patreno never did the rape he was accused of not doing enough to report it. but all he had to offer the police was heresay evidence. The man who saw the boy in the shower didn't go to the cops either but he is being played up as a hero. that is BS.

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McQueary is not being portrayed as a hero, trust me. He might have been at the start, but it didn't take long for the attitude to change. It rapidly went from "good he reported" to "Why did he wait? Why did he go to his dad? Why did he not go to the cops?" etc.

I can think of a lot of reasons Paterno would have tried to avoid dealing with this after meeting his legal obligation -- his age, denial of what a friend might be doing, etc. But none of that makes it right. There are many people at fault, Paterno just happens to be the most visible, although I personally think he didn't do enough. He had enough influence that he could have done something and likely protected all the reputations he was worried about.

Sometimes words do not convey enough meaning. "Molest" is one of those words. Was some guy anally raping a ten year old boy or was he sucking off a willing 16 year old? There is a world of difference but the same word is used to describe both acts, and both are illegal.

Stella_Omega said:

What perspective changed? The general opinion is that child molestation is sick and criminal. The general opinion is that anyone who is involved with such is beyond the pale.

Many people manage to hide shit, but if they get caught they are no longer able to hide shit. The perspective hasn't changed. They have stepped into view.

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The perspective is not about the crime Stella, but the man. Before this he was a hero and a legend, a lovable old codger who put and kept Penn state on the map. They had him all but canonized. Now everyone knows the truth, he spent years almost decades aiding a monster to protect his program and yes his legacy which is now tarnished as it should be.

Boxlicker101 said:

Sometimes words do not convey enough meaning. "Molest" is one of those words. Was some guy anally raping a ten year old boy or was he sucking off a willing 16 year old? There is a world of difference but the same word is used to describe both acts, and both are illegal.

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Happy to clarify, Box. Sandusky was witnessed by McQueary "sodomizing a boy" (anally raping a 10 year old). but it was not McQueary who made the molestation known to the police. One of Sandusky's young victims, much later, told on him, and others have been coming forward since then.

bump!

May Patreno now coach football in HELL.

Buzzboy said:

May Patreno now coach football in HELL.

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Even pretending that a place called hell actually exists....just what, exactly, do you think he's done to deserve that?

You must be a Republican. Go with that fear thing...don't worry about anything as unimportant as facts.

Hell would have one hell of a football league. It's not like the players have ever been especially saintly.

PennLady said:

McQueary is not being portrayed as a hero, trust me. He might have been at the start, but it didn't take long for the attitude to change. It rapidly went from "good he reported" to "Why did he wait? Why did he go to his dad? Why did he not go to the cops?" etc.

I can think of a lot of reasons Paterno would have tried to avoid dealing with this after meeting his legal obligation -- his age, denial of what a friend might be doing, etc. But none of that makes it right. There are many people at fault, Paterno just happens to be the most visible, although I personally think he didn't do enough. He had enough influence that he could have done something and likely protected all the reputations he was worried about.

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I am not saying that he was right in not doing more. but in some states even if he had gone to the police they wouldn't be able do do anything becasue He didn't see the boy in the show. if the aid that did see it didn't go with him to the police it is just here-say and would have been thrown out.

Like you said there are MANY people at fault for letting this happen as long as it did. I just wish they were all as run don as Paterno was.

masked_maiden said:

I am not saying that he was right in not doing more. but in some states even if he had gone to the police they wouldn't be able do do anything becasue He didn't see the boy in the show. if the aid that did see it didn't go with him to the police it is just here-say and would have been thrown out.

Like you said there are MANY people at fault for letting this happen as long as it did. I just wish they were all as run don as Paterno was.

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Paterno did not have direct evidence that would have led to a conviction, but he certainly had enough information that, if passed to the proper authorities, would have sparked an investigation. The first person the police would have interviewed was the eye witness McQueary. Paterno, as a leader, father figure, and role model, absolutely failed to discharge his responsibilities. How could he not ask over the last nine years, hey whatever happened about that Sandusky thing? Why is he still hanging around here? Do the police want to talk to me? Is he at least in some kind of counseling program? As the CEO of PSU football, he had to follow up on these questions.

The guy was a giant among coaches and donated more money for the benefit of college education than many people will ever earn in their lives. He passed on the big bucks and passed them along to the school he loved. He is revered by his players, not so much for his football coaching as for his preparing them to be good citizens. He lived a simple life compared to his fellow top level coaches and yes it appears he made a big mistake along the way in how he handled Sandusky. He made a mistake. But that story is of the perp - Sandusky, not Paterno. Also note the stories are very conflicting on what McCreary actually told him but regardless he didn't handle it properly in light of his position. I am not a PSU fan and really could care less one way or the other about the school or Paterno but I do care about fairness, justice and some form of compassion and forgiveness. So we will all view JP in our own way and I will view him as a great coach and great man who along the way made one mistake we know about and others we dont. Much like all the rest of us.

I do care about fairness, justice and some form of compassion and forgiveness.

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I kinda favor compassion and justice for raped children. The way I see it, the privileged and powerful have all the compassion and justice money can buy. Paterno bought himself a whole lot of compassion, with his donations to college education.

okatty35 said:

The guy was a giant among coaches and donated more money for the benefit of college education than many people will ever earn in their lives. He passed on the big bucks and passed them along to the school he loved. He is revered by his players, not so much for his football coaching as for his preparing them to be good citizens. He lived a simple life compared to his fellow top level coaches and yes it appears he made a big mistake along the way in how he handled Sandusky. He made a mistake.

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I live within 30 miles of Philly, and so I'm seeing a lot of coverage of this. A key line here, is "He made a mistake." Yes, he did. A huge one. His contributions to the athletic part of student-athletics is commendable and more coaches should be like that to the extent they can. But he made a mistake that put a lot of kids at risk.

okatty35 said:

But that story is of the perp - Sandusky, not Paterno. Also note the stories are very conflicting on what McCreary actually told him but regardless he didn't handle it properly in light of his position.

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This is what I have read over the last few months of what McQueary did and said (you can go to Philly.com, among other places I'm sure, for coverage of this). McQueary saw what he describes pretty unmistakably as Sandusky sodomizing a young boy. I'll let McQueary slide a little from sheer shock; however, when he told his dad, it's appalling his dad didn't say, go to the police. This was 2002, right? McQueary himself says he did not give Paterno specific details out of respect for his age. I gather he was more specific in the grand jury testimony.

Paterno should have pressed for details, one could say. If Paterno was as protective of kids as he was supposed to be, it seems like going to the police is the next step, and it wasn't. Okay, he went up his chain of command. Still, it's perturbing that Paterno and his wife have both said if it was their grandchildren, personal retribution would have ensued. This other kids aren't worth talking to the cops about? Or following up on in general?

okatty35 said:

I am not a PSU fan and really could care less one way or the other about the school or Paterno but I do care about fairness, justice and some form of compassion and forgiveness. So we will all view JP in our own way and I will view him as a great coach and great man who along the way made one mistake we know about and others we dont. Much like all the rest of us.

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He made more mistakes than just this one. I don't know the details but in connection with this I have read about him protecting his players who were charged with some pretty serious stuff. I got the impression there were possible NCAA violations, but I don't know for sure or if any punishment was meted out for that.

Stella_Omega said:

I kinda favor compassion and justice for raped children. The way I see it, the privileged and powerful have all the compassion and justice money can buy. Paterno bought himself a whole lot of compassion, with his donations to college education.

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This is what bothers me. I read about these town hall meetings PSU alums (I did not go to PSU) are having with the Board and/or PSU President and all they care about is how Paterno was fired via a phone call. Excuse me? If you're going to bash the BOT, how about over the fact that they knew about this investigation before and did nothing? How about some anger over them giving Sandusky what sound like ridiculous "retirement" terms which then gave him a place to abuse these kids?

For further consideration: http://live.washingtonpost.com/joe-paterno-died-chat.html

This is the transcript of an online chat with Sally Jenkins, a WaPo reporter who had Paterno's only interview re: the Penn State scandal and related matters before he died.

Stella_Omega said:

I kinda favor compassion and justice for raped children. The way I see it, the privileged and powerful have all the compassion and justice money can buy. Paterno bought himself a whole lot of compassion, with his donations to college education.

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You can have all kinds of compassion and seek justice for the kiids - that is what the prosecution of Sandusky is about. Its how our system works. The question posed is your perspective of JP and I gave you mine. Many will disagree and some may agree.

PennLady said:

I live within 30 miles of Philly, and so I'm seeing a lot of coverage of this. A key line here, is "He made a mistake." Yes, he did. A huge one. His contributions to the athletic part of student-athletics is commendable and more coaches should be like that to the extent they can. But he made a mistake that put a lot of kids at risk.



This is what I have read over the last few months of what McQueary did and said (you can go to Philly.com, among other places I'm sure, for coverage of this). McQueary saw what he describes pretty unmistakably as Sandusky sodomizing a young boy. I'll let McQueary slide a little from sheer shock; however, when he told his dad, it's appalling his dad didn't say, go to the police. This was 2002, right? McQueary himself says he did not give Paterno specific details out of respect for his age. I gather he was more specific in the grand jury testimony.

Paterno should have pressed for details, one could say. If Paterno was as protective of kids as he was supposed to be, it seems like going to the police is the next step, and it wasn't. Okay, he went up his chain of command. Still, it's perturbing that Paterno and his wife have both said if it was their grandchildren, personal retribution would have ensued. This other kids aren't worth talking to the cops about? Or following up on in general?



He made more mistakes than just this one. I don't know the details but in connection with this I have read about him protecting his players who were charged with some pretty serious stuff. I got the impression there were possible NCAA violations, but I don't know for sure or if any punishment was meted out for that.



This is what bothers me. I read about these town hall meetings PSU alums (I did not go to PSU) are having with the Board and/or PSU President and all they care about is how Paterno was fired via a phone call. Excuse me? If you're going to bash the BOT, how about over the fact that they knew about this investigation before and did nothing? How about some anger over them giving Sandusky what sound like ridiculous "retirement" terms which then gave him a place to abuse these kids?

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I dont think you can argue much with how JP handled his duties as coach of PSU. He was a cleaner recruiter than most and seemed to have give more back to the school than anyone in similar circumstances. That really isnt the issue in terms of the abuse case and his reporting duties.

And that BOT guy who handled all the press conferences and stuff was really impressive in my view. He is like CEO of a big corp maybe? Anyway, I agree with you that they did best they could with the firestorm they were faced with.

PennLady said:

For further consideration: http://live.washingtonpost.com/joe-paterno-died-chat.html

This is the transcript of an online chat with Sally Jenkins, a WaPo reporter who had Paterno's only interview re: the Penn State scandal and related matters before he died.

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Very interesting! Thanks

okatty35 said:

I dont think you can argue much with how JP handled his duties as coach of PSU. He was a cleaner recruiter than most and seemed to have give more back to the school than anyone in similar circumstances. That really isnt the issue in terms of the abuse case and his reporting duties.

And that BOT guy who handled all the press conferences and stuff was really impressive in my view. He is like CEO of a big corp maybe? Anyway, I agree with you that they did best they could with the firestorm they were faced with.

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No, I'm not arguing on the football front, except to say I did read about some problems, but I don't recall the exact nature and would have to look into it. There's no debating the fact, since it can be looked up, that Paterno graduated more players than most football programs. That's all good.

As far as what Paterno did or should have done, I'm not sure. I want him to have done more, and according to Jenkins, Paterno wishes he had. It's easy to say what we would have done, that's armchair quarterbacking. There are many more people at fault.

PennLady said:

No, I'm not arguing on the football front, except to say I did read about some problems, but I don't recall the exact nature and would have to look into it. There's no debating the fact, since it can be looked up, that Paterno graduated more players than most football programs. That's all god.

As far as what Paterno did or should have done, I'm not sure. I want him to have done more, and according to Jenkins, Paterno wishes he had. It's easy to say what we would have done, that's armchair quarterbacking. There are many more people at fault.

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There were clearly more than just Paterno at fault. He was the face of the football program, however, and by most accounts the face of the entire university. He was also Sandusky's friend. He was obligated to do more than merely pass the buck and then stick his head in the sand. How could he not question Sandusky's continued presence at the football facilities with that cloud hanging over his head? Shouldn't he have, at the very least, asked "hey, what's going on with that Sandusky thing? Was he cleared of raping boys in the shower room? "

soflabbwlvr said:

Shouldn't he have, at the very least, asked "hey, what's going on with that Sandusky thing? Was he cleared of raping boys in the shower room? "

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At the very least, yes, he should have.

As for friendship -- according to a few articles, Paterno said that he and Sandusky were not close at all, and did not socialize outside of work or anything like that. Sandusky also retired in 1999 or something (someone correct me if I'm wrong there), and nothing I've read says the two had much to do with each other after that.

cloudy said:

Even pretending that a place called hell actually exists....just what, exactly, do you think he's done to deserve that?

You must be a Republican. Go with that fear thing...don't worry about anything as unimportant as facts.

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First off, I'm Liberal.

Second, the FACT is Patreno do nothing to stop a pervert from rapeing 10-year-old boys. That should at least sent him to purgatory.

Good article by Rick Reilly on ESPN. Sums it all up for me.