Really struggling with submitted format

[Rogue25]

Hello Everyone

I am currently struggling with the formatting of stories when submitted to the site.

If in the story I have hit 'enter', this then translates to a new paragraph when uploaded. Therefore every sentence spoken by a character (in conversation with another) appears as a new paragraph and not just a new line (as I understood you should always start new speech from a character on a new line).

I have had an email rejecting my story because of the formatting but I don't know how to now show a new line in the story without it becoming a new paragraph? Am really stuck!

Please help if you can
thanks

[sr71plt]

Not really a problem, I don't think. New dialogue should start a new paragraph, not just a new line. The system is doing it right. (Open up some existing stories on the site and you can see how it normally works.)

[Rogue25]

Hey thanks for the quick reply. there are some instances though when I have done this but the formatting still goes awry! for example (pretend the paragraph below is dialogue):

Person A speaks
Person B replies
Person A speaks again

I enter it into the form like that but then it comes through like this:

Person A speaks

Person B replies

Person A speaks again

Which i didn't think was right? Am struggling to know how to use the enter key for the purposes of the online formatting as speech shouldn't be spaced with another line inbetween it as shown in the second example. Or thats how I was taught at school! Lol.

[sr71plt]

It came back right. Again, go look at other stories posted here and how the paragraphing is done with them. Dialogue by a new speaker starts a new paragraph, which on computer screens means it should be spearated by a line space. It doesn't matter how long the line of dialogue--and any action description attached to it--is.

You aren't at school anymore (and school didn't do it right if it did it that way anyway. And it probably didn't do it that way. It most likely indented the start of every paragraph, so you could see where one started. The formatting here--and mostly across the computer world--puts the paragraph opening flush left, not indented. That's why, for visual purposes, the extra line feed is needed).

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by Rogue25

Which i didn't think was right? Am struggling to know how to use the enter key for the purposes of the online formatting as speech shouldn't be spaced with another line inbetween it as shown in the second example. Or thats how I was taught at school! Lol.

SR is right -- what you learned at school for writing on paper, whether long-hand or typing, doesn't apply on most of the internet. Go to a news site, you'll see it there too. If your story came out with no extra lines between paragraphs, it'd be a wall of text and few if any would take the time to read it.

Writing for online audiences, from a format/appearance POV, is different than what you learned.

[Rogue25]

thank you both for your replies.

I did learn that way but presumed it applied online - not all stories are formatted the way they should be then - or at least not the ones I have read.

thanks both for your help. will revise.

[MrDeep]

I am glad to know someone has struggled with this, too.

I looked at The HTML and the use. They put a carriage return at the end of each sentence. The cr's produced just a new line. Ordinarily a paragraph end is a carriage return AND a line feed. Since we have to conform the site's style and not our own, we have to deal with that.

The tags used in HTML is <br/> for carriage return and a </p> for a paragraph end.

Here what I have started doing. When I finish editing in Word document, I use replace all to replace every paragraph end with two paragraph end symbols. This leave a huge amount of space under every paragraph. Then I save it as a text document (.txt). From that text document I submit it to the editors. Then I pre-review.

The site FAQ advises that one can submit Word documents (.doc) but that takes 72 hours longer for the site to handle it. The Word documents (.doc) will retain the formatting. It takes them longer to handle it.

I thought this information may be helpful to someone. I would be interested to know how others handle this.

MD

[bronzeage]

Originally Posted by Rogue25

thank you both for your replies.

I did learn that way but presumed it applied online - not all stories are formatted the way they should be then - or at least not the ones I have read.

thanks both for your help. will revise.

Lit stories are formatted to be readable on a monitor. The normal rules of paragraphs do not apply. Dialog will have a lot of white space. Break all other text into blocks of 10 lines or less.

[AsylumSeeker]

Originally Posted by bronzeage

Lit stories are formatted to be readable on a monitor. The normal rules of paragraphs do not apply. Dialog will have a lot of white space. Break all other text into blocks of 10 lines or less.

Not being critical, not making any judgments, just trying to learn something. But when I see dialog vs. dialogue, I think of the first as a pop-up and the second as someone in a story speaking.

I've been spanked hard and now just want to ask if my understanding is flawed or accurate.

Just a question, no accusations being leveled, no disruptions to the force here.

Just want to live and learn.

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by MrDeep

I am glad to know someone has struggled with this, too.

I looked at The HTML and the use. They put a carriage return at the end of each sentence. The cr's produced just a new line. Ordinarily a paragraph end is a carriage return AND a line feed. Since we have to conform the site's style and not our own, we have to deal with that.

The tags used in HTML is <br/> for carriage return and a </p> for a paragraph end.

Here what I have started doing. When I finish editing in Word document, I use replace all to replace every paragraph end with two paragraph end symbols. This leave a huge amount of space under every paragraph. Then I save it as a text document (.txt). From that text document I submit it to the editors. Then I pre-review.

The site FAQ advises that one can submit Word documents (.doc) but that takes 72 hours longer for the site to handle it. The Word documents (.doc) will retain the formatting. It takes them longer to handle it.

I thought this information may be helpful to someone. I would be interested to know how others handle this.

MD

You don't need to put all that HTML code in, though. I've been posting for two years and all I do is put in tags for italics or bold if I need it. I double space my paragraphs as I write, put in the tags as I go along, and then just copy it into the text window on the submission page. I find that makes it easier all around. It doesn't mean you'll post any sooner, but the process is usually smooth.

[snoopercharmbrights]

Originally Posted by PennLady

You don't need to put all that HTML code in, though. I've been posting for two years and all I do is put in tags for italics or bold if I need it. I double space my paragraphs as I write, put in the tags as I go along, and then just copy it into the text window on the submission page. I find that makes it easier all around. It doesn't mean you'll post any sooner, but the process is usually smooth.

Just one word of warning - don't use "smart quotes" in MSWord as this can cause problems. Going via Notepad and using ANSI prevents this problem.

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by snoopercharmbrights

Just one word of warning - don't use "smart quotes" in MSWord as this can cause problems. Going via Notepad and using ANSI prevents this problem.

Ah, good to know. I have smart quotes off in Word. I never liked them. In fact it sometimes poses a problem when I'm formatting for other stuff, as I have to remember to put them in.

[sr71plt]

I've posted over 500 Word stories to Lit. with smart quotes (cut and paste into the submissions box) and not a single problem yet in rejection for that or the quotes getting screwed up. They do show up as straight quotes on Lit., though.

Snooper has very few stories posted to Lit., so I don't know where his experience on this comes from.

[PayDay]

Originally Posted by MrDeep

I am glad to know someone has struggled with this, too.

I looked at The HTML and the use. They put a carriage return at the end of each sentence. The cr's produced just a new line. Ordinarily a paragraph end is a carriage return AND a line feed. Since we have to conform the site's style and not our own, we have to deal with that.

The tags used in HTML is <br/> for carriage return and a </p> for a paragraph end.

Here what I have started doing. When I finish editing in Word document, I use replace all to replace every paragraph end with two paragraph end symbols. This leave a huge amount of space under every paragraph. Then I save it as a text document (.txt). From that text document I submit it to the editors. Then I pre-review.

The site FAQ advises that one can submit Word documents (.doc) but that takes 72 hours longer for the site to handle it. The Word documents (.doc) will retain the formatting. It takes them longer to handle it.

I thought this information may be helpful to someone. I would be interested to know how others handle this.

MD

I usually stay away from posting in this forum, but this thread caught my eye. I've had a problem with the formatting, like the OP, but was not rejected for it, yet.

I'm trying it this way, with WORD. I am intentionally not spacing hurried single character dialogue, or multiple characters in succession, but still spacing all other paragraphs and dialogue 'correctly' as others do.

For example:

Something happened in this paragraph

Then it became a huge deal, out of nowhere, in this paragraph.

"Blah blah blah" character one said.
"Blah blah blah," character2 interjected immediately after.

Then the new paragraph begins.

I posted the information on the fact that I did this at the top of the stories I resubmitted, so that the formatting of line spacing will hold along with italics and such.

I did not do this when I first posted some stories, assuming it would, so hurried dialogue ended up with line splits. To me, it felt like 'sense of rush' was missing. I figure, if I request special spacing, as per the SG intro to the story, Lit should do it, right?

Even if it takes more than 72 hours, it's worth it, I think. I don't even know if the Lit will do what I am asking though. I hope so.

Any ideas? Or is this going too far with rule-breaking?

I have some stories still pending re-submit, so either way I'll post what happens.

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by PayDay

I'm trying it this way, with WORD. I am intentionally not spacing hurried single character dialogue, or multiple characters in succession, but still spacing all other paragraphs and dialogue 'correctly' as others do.

I'm just wondering why you want to do this -- the single-spaced dialogue, I mean. And I'd guess that the lines will end up spaced properly anyway.

[PayDay]

Originally Posted by PennLady

I'm just wondering why you want to do this -- the single-spaced dialogue, I mean. And I'd guess that the lines will end up spaced properly anyway.

I want to, just because, plus I feel it's an author's duty to push limits as he/she/it feels fit.

It doesn't matter anyway, Lit didn't do it on my newest submission. They apparently don't like me messing with format .



Oh well.

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by PayDay

I want to, just because, plus I feel it's an author's duty to push limits as he/she/it feels fit.

It doesn't matter anyway, Lit didn't do it on my newest submission. They apparently don't like me messing with format .



Oh well.

Well, keep pushing. In this case, I'd have to say that as a reader, reading double space and then single space would bother me. But then I did a lot of layout stuff at my previous job and so I notice things.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by PennLady

Well, keep pushing. In this case, I'd have to say that as a reader, reading double space and then single space would bother me. But then I did a lot of layout stuff at my previous job and so I notice things.

I could see doing it to denote rapid-fire dialogue. But I don't know if it will be preserved in Lit. posting.

[ErosArtist]

Jumping in in the middle...

If I understand correctly, where a Word doc formatted for the printed page might have dialogue reading:

Joe pushed his chair back from the table and stood. He towered over the two smaller men, scowling. His breathing was shallow and fast, face glowing red with uncontrolled rage. Joe slammed the table hard with a white knuckled fist. The drink glasses shook.
"You sons-of-bitches!" he screamed.
The man to his left slid down in his chair just as the color was sliding from his face.
"Calm down Joe," said the man to the right. "He was just having fun. He didn't mean anything by it."
Joe didn't care. They could say anything.
He was done with these two.

Will show up on Lit as:

Joe pushed his chair back from the table and stood. He towered over the two smaller men, scowling.

His breathing was shallow and fast, face glowing red with uncontrolled rage. Joe slammed the table hard with a white knuckled fist.

The drink glasses shook.

"You sons-of-bitches!" he screamed.

The man to his left slid down in his chair just as the color was sliding from his face.
"Calm down Joe," said the man to the right. "He was just having fun. He didn't mean anything by it."

Joe didn't care. They could say anything.

He was done with these two.

But should be submitted as:

Joe pushed his chair back from the table and stood. He towered over the two smaller men, scowling. His breathing was shallow and fast, face glowing red with uncontrolled rage. Joe slammed the table hard with a white knuckled fist. The drink glasses shook. "You sons-of-bitches!" he screamed.

The man to his left slid down in his chair just as the color was sliding from his face."Calm down Joe," said the man to the right. "He was just having fun. He didn't mean anything by it."

Joe didn't care. They could say anything. He was done with these two.

And so could be adjusted if needed in the submissions box after a cut & paste...am I on the right track?

I ask because I just submitted two stories, which were approved, but have these spacing issues because of returns/tabs in the Word file.

[sr71plt]

Yes, I think that the Lit. formatting will force an extra line space after every paragraph return whether you submit it that way or not. And this is the way they want it on their website--and is the way that most can comfortably read on a computer screen.

[PayDay]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

I could see doing it to denote rapid-fire dialogue. But I don't know if it will be preserved in Lit. posting.
...
Yes, I think that the Lit. formatting will force an extra line space after every paragraph return whether you submit it that way or not. And this is the way they want it on their website--and is the way that most can comfortably read on a computer screen.

Yeah, that's it exactly, rapid fire. You are also very correct, the Lit will force it's formatting upon you, ask me how I know, now.

But yeah, PennLady, I notice little formatting things like that too, that's why I did it, to catch attention of people like me, since I write for myself.

...maybe I could turn it all into a single paragraph to denote rapid fire... hmmm...

[CarlusMagnus]

Originally Posted by PayDay

Yeah, that's it exactly, rapid fire. You are also very correct, the Lit will force it's formatting upon you, ask me how I know, now.

But yeah, PennLady, I notice little formatting things like that too, that's why I did it, to catch attention of people like me, since I write for myself.

...maybe I could turn it all into a single paragraph to denote rapid fire... hmmm...

You can probably achieve what you want for dialogue that consists of very short lines, but they must be shorter than the width of the column that appears on the Lit. page that displays the story. (I've no clue what this means for mobile devices.) If lines run over that width, the result will look bad—really bad—because the reader will have no way to separate different speakers' utterances.

Here's how: Type everything in a single paragraph and insert the five character sequence

<BR/>

between different speakers' lines. Here's an example; suppose your text, as submitted, contains the paragraph, separated from other text, both above and below, by blank lines:

"I say this."<BR/>"I say that."<BR/>"You're both full of shit. I say the other."<BR/>"No, assholes! This!"<BR/>"Goddammit! You both eat shit. That!"<BR/>"Fuck you both! The other!"

That ought to appear in the story single-spaced, like this (I assume that your display is at least 44 characters wide—if not, you'll see the effect I mentioned above):

"I say this."
"I say that."
"You're both full of shit. I say the other."
"No, assholes! This!"
"Goddammit! You both eat shit. That!"
"Fuck you both! The other!"

And it should appear separated from the adjacent text, above and below, by blank lines.

I've successfully forced some line breaks where I want them in stories using this technique. It should be noted that I work in a text editor, and not in a word processor.

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by PayDay

Yeah, that's it exactly, rapid fire. You are also very correct, the Lit will force it's formatting upon you, ask me how I know, now.

But yeah, PennLady, I notice little formatting things like that too, that's why I did it, to catch attention of people like me, since I write for myself.

...maybe I could turn it all into a single paragraph to denote rapid fire... hmmm...

I can see what you're getting at, but I don't see how that will denote rapid-fire dialogue any better than anything else. That should come across in the fact that they'd be speaking in short sentences, and probably an absence of dialogue tags (for a few lines anyway) would add to that as well. But that's just me.

I don't know that single paragraph would work. For one thing, each character's dialogue should be on a separate line. Second, I think that might be grounds for a story rejection, although I have of course seen that in some stories. If I were to come across a paragraph of different characters speaking, my first thought would be that someone goofed.

[PayDay]

Originally Posted by CarlusMagnus

You can probably achieve what you want for dialogue that consists of very short lines, but they must be shorter than the width of the column that appears on the Lit. page that displays the story. (I've no clue what this means for mobile devices.) If lines run over that width, the result will look bad—really bad—because the reader will have no way to separate different speakers' utterances.

Wait, wait: Are you saying I can insert code into my .doc file, and get away with it?
Wha-huh??
Really?

Originally Posted by PennLady

I can see what you're getting at, but I don't see how that will denote rapid-fire dialogue any better than anything else. That should come across in the fact that they'd be speaking in short sentences, and probably an absence of dialogue tags (for a few lines anyway) would add to that as well. But that's just me.

Just personal preference really, in what I have submitted so far, it works with the Lit format, and reads as rapid fire to me, but sometimes you cannot tell when one character says two things, in a row, with succession and with a distinct silent pause greater than a comma or semi. I try not to assume anything about readers here, though. So many types...

Originally Posted by PennLady

I don't know that single paragraph would work. For one thing, each character's dialogue should be on a separate line. Second, I think that might be grounds for a story rejection, although I have of course seen that in some stories. If I were to come across a paragraph of different characters speaking, my first thought would be that someone goofed.

Yeah, that's how it looks, too, when you try and single paragraph it. I tried last night, it looks.... ill, in a bad way. So, yeah, agreed.
I don't think it would get you a rejection though. I've seen some terrible punctuation (worse than mine) go through unhindered, not to mention terrible formatting in paragraphs.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by PayDay

Wait, wait: Are you saying I can insert code into my .doc file, and get away with it?
Wha-huh??
Really?

You can certainly try it and see what happens (and let us know). As PennLady notes, however, any fancy formatting stands a good chance of being rejected by the submissions bot.

I don't think Carlus has done enough story submitting here to know the system all that well. Even those of us who have big story files get a surprise now and then on what the bot doesn't like.