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Old 07-18-2017, 04:09 PM   #1
BoyNextDoor
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"Let it collapse"

Well here is the new, new, new US national domestic healthcare policy strategy. Let the Affordable Care Act collapse. Let me offer a few thoughts:

- Healthcare’s share of gross domestic product has reached the historic rate of 17.8 percent.
- $3.5 Trillion in economic activity is projected for 2017 for the healthcare sector


Undermining this giant market by letting the ACA "collapse" is probably the worst public policy since ... Employer sponsored healthcare.

For anyone that wants to spout "buh-buh-buh Obama!" here is a little fact for you:
- The average premium for a family with employer coverage is now almost $3,600 lower than if premium growth since 2010 had matched the decade preceding the Affordable Care Act.

So yeah, premiums went up and some people couldn't get those "mini-med" plans that covered virtually nothing, and it needs to be modified, as any massive legislation does over time. BUT premiums increases were constrained over the preceding years and 25 million more people are covered, and it helped the economy.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyNextDoor View Post

So yeah, premiums went up and some people couldn't get those "mini-med" plans that covered virtually nothing, and it needs to be modified, as any massive legislation does over time. BUT premiums increases were constrained over the preceding years and 25 million more people are covered, and it helped the economy.
How did shoveling money into the insurance sector help the economy, exactly?

BTW, did it occur to you that if not for a massive system of mandatory price supports, the cost of private insurance might actually have come down? Basic capitalist theory suggests that that's what happens when you price people out of the market. If the public is required to pay for insurance, then it ought to be public insurance operated for the benefit of the public, not the profit of private investors. ACA gave us the worst of both worlds.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:21 PM   #3
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All they about is undoing everything Obama did.

That's the agenda.

The question is how much damage they will inflict with their zealotry.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDelirium View Post
How did shoveling money into the insurance sector help the economy, exactly?

BTW, did it occur to you that if not for a massive system of mandatory price supports, the cost of private insurance might actually have come down? Basic capitalist theory suggests that that's what happens when you price people out of the market. If the public is required to pay for insurance, then it ought to be public insurance operated for the benefit of the public, not the profit of private investors. ACA gave us the worst of both worlds.
Those drafting Obamacare foresaw such difficulties and authorized payments to insurers that enrolled sicker-than-average customers to mitigate. The Republican-controlled Congress reneged on that commitment, and now we see the consequences.

If your last statement means that there should be a public option or a Sanders-Policy of "health care for all" as he has proposed it, then yes I agree.

I am just saying "let it collapse" is completely assinie public policy and is a complete abdication of the responsibility of this President, Senate and House.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrina View Post
All they about is undoing everything Obama did.

That's the agenda.

The question is how much damage they will inflict with their zealotry.
i do not know you ( by this name )
but you are right.

they - as in an amorphous [not entirely republican] they -
want to tear down all things ' obama '.

it is "the" goal.


silly shit, that.

the zealotry
you assume as a fait accompli
is...
balanced/checked, as much [if not more] by moderate republicans than by
[watch the train wreck and do nothing]
congressional democrats

the shrill all around
has further faked the actual
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrina View Post
All they about is undoing everything Obama did.

That's the agenda.


The question is how much damage they will inflict with their zealotry.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyNextDoor View Post
Those drafting Obamacare foresaw such difficulties and authorized payments to insurers that enrolled sicker-than-average customers to mitigate. The Republican-controlled Congress reneged on that commitment, and now we see the consequences.

If your last statement means that there should be a public option or a Sanders-Policy of "health care for all" as he has proposed it, then yes I agree.

I am just saying "let it collapse" is completely assinie public policy and is a complete abdication of the responsibility of this President, Senate and House.
HA!!!!

The only thing the creators of Obamacare foresaw- by their own admission - was that Americans were stupid enough to believe in it in the first place.

Blaming its failure on Republicans is classic liberalism.

I'm guessing you were one of the lemmings who went for Obamacare hook, line, and sinker and are too dishonest to admit that it sucked to begin with.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:08 PM   #8
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Hey, miles, have you found your balls yet?
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by water505 View Post
HA!!!!

The only thing the creators of Obamacare foresaw- by their own admission - was that Americans were stupid enough to believe in it in the first place.

Blaming its failure on Republicans is classic liberalism.

I'm guessing you were one of the lemmings who went for Obamacare hook, line, and sinker and are too dishonest to admit that it sucked to begin with.
No blame. Just facts.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:20 PM   #10
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The only fact I have is the one I am living. My husband and kids are on a policy that has almost tripled in premium and has such a high deductible it's useless for day to day health care needs. My husband had a great policy but it didn't meet Obama's criteria, but it really paid for my husbands diabetic issues well. So the insurance was cancelled and we moved to the crap we have now at a much higher cost. It sucks.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleaver View Post
i do not know you ( by this name )
but you are right.

they - as in an amorphous [not entirely republican] they -
want to tear down all things ' obama '.

it is "the" goal.


silly shit, that.

the zealotry
you assume as a fait accompli
is...
balanced/checked, as much [if not more] by moderate republicans than by
[watch the train wreck and do nothing]
congressional democrats

the shrill all around
has further faked the actual
Has nothing to do with zealotry. Obama was a big government liberal. We had the biggest expansion in government during Obama's two terms and we're not any better for it. As a libertarian, I am all for it. Less government makes things better. Obamacare failed because of simple economics. You needed the young and healthy to buy into obamacare to subsidize it for those that needed it. The plans weren't worth it those young people and they simply refused to buy into it, even with a mandate.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryharder62 View Post
The only fact I have is the one I am living. My husband and kids are on a policy that has almost tripled in premium and has such a high deductible it's useless for day to day health care needs. My husband had a great policy but it didn't meet Obama's criteria, but it really paid for my husbands diabetic issues well. So the insurance was cancelled and we moved to the crap we have now at a much higher cost. It sucks.
For you sake I hope "let it collapse" does not happen.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryharder62 View Post
The only fact I have is the one I am living. My husband and kids are on a policy that has almost tripled in premium and has such a high deductible it's useless for day to day health care needs. My husband had a great policy but it didn't meet Obama's criteria, but it really paid for my husbands diabetic issues well. So the insurance was cancelled and we moved to the crap we have now at a much higher cost. It sucks.
Soon you will have nothing if donnie has his way.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:24 PM   #14
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No blame. Just facts.
Bullshit...you said the GOP reneged on their "commitment." What commitment?

What about the Democrats' commitment to keeping your insurance, keeping your doctor, lower premiums and better coverage? It was one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the American public...nothing but a big lie.

Give me a fucking break.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyNextDoor View Post
For you sake I hope "let it collapse" does not happen.
If it does where does the blame lie?
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleaver View Post
i do not know you ( by this name )
but you are right.

they - as in an amorphous [not entirely republican] they -
want to tear down all things ' obama '.

it is "the" goal.


silly shit, that.

the zealotry
you assume as a fait accompli
is...
balanced/checked, as much [if not more] by moderate republicans than by
[watch the train wreck and do nothing]
congressional democrats

the shrill all around
has further faked the actual
Hi. Nice to meet you formally. I've seen you around a bit. I'm just me. Whatever god you do or do not believe in help you, I'm brand spankin' new to Lit - well since February. The GB has been an educational and enlightening experience to say the least. I do have about seven to eight (ohhh I got a new one recently, I may be up to nine) alt accusations. But that's kinda par for the course it seems. At least they put me in good company - not like I'm being accused of being barbieslut69.

And you are correct.

It was easy for the republicans to posture ineffectively knowing that there would be no consequences for their posturing. They are in control now and have been met with some real world consequences from their constituents. Sure not at the ballot box yet, but that's what they are - rightfully - afraid of.

The democrats need a message. Anti-Trump (as easy and fun as that can be) is an exercise in self-indulgent wallowing essentially. There needs to be something of substance other than shooting fish in a barrel. Especially considering no matter how many times you shoot the stupid fish, he's still president.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:27 PM   #17
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The democrats need a message.
They need to back Bernie.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:29 PM   #18
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They need to back Bernie.
Yeah, that's the ticket!

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Old 07-18-2017, 05:38 PM   #19
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They need to back Bernie.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Bernie has his own baggage and isn't a spring chicken. If they don't connect with white working class America in the rust belt then they aren't going to make it.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:51 PM   #20
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They need to back Bernie.
he is not a democrat, why back him?
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BoyNextDoor View Post

I am just saying "let it collapse" is completely assinie public policy and is a complete abdication of the responsibility of this President, Senate and House.
Not of POTUS, Senate and House only at this point and it's not any more assinine than ACA was in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by water505 View Post
Blaming its failure on Republicans is classic liberalism.
No it's not, it's just run of the mill socialist bullshit just like the Republicans who blame all the worlds woes on those damn liburhulz!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyNextDoor View Post
They need to back Bernie.
LMAO.....never going to happen, the Soviets didn't brainwash quite enough of us to buy his bullshit.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:55 PM   #22
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Soon you will have nothing if donnie has his way.
Well we aren't going to have much either way because Insurance company after insurance company has stopped selling health insurance. It is too much of a pain in the ass. My husband sells insurance.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:13 PM   #23
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Well we aren't going to have much either way because Insurance company after insurance company has stopped selling health insurance. It is too much of a pain in the ass. My husband sells insurance.
He's an insurance salesman and that's the best he could get? Have you considered a divorce and moving to a better, more affordable location?
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:30 PM   #24
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Well we aren't going to have much either way because Insurance company after insurance company has stopped selling health insurance. It is too much of a pain in the ass. My husband sells insurance.
Well, they're not going to make any money by doing that.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:37 PM   #25
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Repealing that sorry bitch looks like an attractive alternative now........doesn't it?

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