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Old 07-21-2011, 10:18 AM   #1
Fantasies_only
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Adult Consensual Incest (how bad is it?)

It's immoral and certainly illegal, but should it be?
If under the following conditions I think incest should be legalized:

1: Both or all parties must be 18 or older with an age gap of not more than 12 years (must wear condom).
2: All sexual actions (masturbation excluded) must be consensual (nudity without touching genitals will not be considered sexual, unless penetration takes place).
3: Nobody under 18 may watch incest unless permitted by parents.
4: Only blood relatives may have a continued incestuous relationship, however non blood related family members may join in if invited.
5: Both immediate family (mother, father, and siblings) and relatives may watch if consented, but nobody outside the family may see family sex.
6: Neither alcohol nor illegal drugs (including illegal narcotics that has been legalized) may be present during incest and must not be an outside influence beforehand.
7: No more than three family members over 17 may have sex at the same time.
8: If consensual, it must be voted on where and when the action will take place.
9: Incest may not occur on public property, high traffic areas (during business or school hours), in a family area, or where children are likely to be.
10: All cell phones must be shut off and cameras, videocams, Webcams, spy cams, imaging devices, movie projectors, and television cameras must not be present.
11: No family member may be forced, bribed, or blackmailed into any fetish the person is not willing to do (encouragement is allowed).
12: No person may brag about a sexual encounter with a family member to friends, neighbors, co-workers, classmates, etc.

This is not to say I want to have sex with my family.
I don't even find them the least bit attractive, nor they would me.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:25 PM   #2
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1. 18 years is an arbitrary age which has very little if anything to do with a person's ability to consent. A better standard would be graduation from secondary school which allows people who mature early to become sexually involved with other mature people earlier, and people who mature late must wait until they do. In this context maturity means the ability to consent, i.e. to make abstract choices, which is exactly what a person learns in secondary school.

Don't forget that some people never become able to consent despite their ages, i.e. people with severe mental problems.

However, a 30-year-old person cannot by definition consent any more than an 18-year-old person. Either you can consent or you cannot. Therefore age-difference is not relevant in this context so long as anyone who has sex with each other consent to it.

Whether a man must wear a condom when having sex with another must also be a matter of choice so long as he has no reason to believe that without the condom he will endanger the other person's health. If he choses not to wear a condom the other person can consent to having sex with him or not. Simple as that.

If you included the requirement for condoms because you worry about birth defects due to incestous nature of the sex, then the same requirement should apply to anyone who have genetic diseases in their family history as such can be passed on through non-incestous sex as well. The risk of passing them on through incestous sex is slightly higher on average, but in individual cases an incestous couple may well have less risk than a non-incestous couple of passing on genetic diseases. To make such requirements for just incestous couples would be generalized discrimination.

2. ALL sexual actions must be consentual, including masturbation and nudity. Now, nudity is not necessarily sexual, but if it is it must also be consentual.

3. Anyone who is able to consent must decide for themselves if they want to watch incest or any other sexual activity, regardless of what their parents tell them.

4. Anyone who is able to consent may have sex with anyone they choose, so long as the latter also consents, regardless of the sex being incestous or not. The important thing is not whether the sex is incestous but whether it is consentual.

5. Nobody may watch another person have sex unless the latter consents to it, not even relatives.

6. Anyone who is able to consent may consume any substance they please, even for sexual purposes, so long as it poses no serious health danger. Again, what is important is not that the sex is incestous but that it is consentual.

7. Anyone who is able to consent may have sex with as many people as they please, so long as those others consent as well. Consent is all that matters.

8. Anyone who is able to consent may have sex where ever they choose, so long as their sexual partners consent to the choice. No need for a ballot box. A simple "yes" will suffice.

9. The owner of the property decides who, if anyone, may have sex on it, but cf. 3 anyone who is able to consent must decide for themselves if they want to watch incest or any other sexual activity. This immediately excludes e.g. small children and having sex where anyone has access. However, if e.g. the small children are asleep in their own rooms there is no reason why the people who own the family area may not have sex there.

10. Anyone who is able to consent may decide for themselves if they want their sexual activity recorded somehow, so long as anyone else being simultaneously recorded consents as well. Consent must be the ONLY restriction to sex.

11. Indeed, all those would be directly contrary to consent.

12. Anyone may speek as they wish in accordance with the freedom of expression. However, it is usually polite to not "kiss and tell."

Last edited by cybersexy_dk : 07-21-2011 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:51 PM   #3
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The stigma attached to such relationships also encompass the high degree of birth defects relating to incestuous births. I would rather forgo legalizing such relationships.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Very_Bad_Man View Post
The stigma attached to such relationships also encompass the high degree of birth defects relating to incestuous births. I would rather forgo legalizing such relationships.
This only applies to subsequent acts; not the first.

There are also many non-incestuous relationships that end up far worse. Just look at our current president.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:32 PM   #5
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This only applies to subsequent acts; not the first.

There are also many non-incestuous relationships that end up far worse. Just look at our current president.
I always wondered if the tea party was the result of too many incestuous knock ups. But maybe you're right-- maybe political morons just happen.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:37 PM   #6
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The stigma attached to such relationships also encompass the high degree of birth defects relating to incestuous births. I would rather forgo legalizing such relationships.
This is something an author brought up after the McKenzie controversy, other lawyers got into the act when a 32 year old senator was discovered having consensual sex with his 18 year old daughter (at 16 she wanted to do it, but her dad made her wait 2 years).

I brought up the thing about drugs thinking about Drew Barrymore and her dad (I said illegal to discount prescription medicine), and alcohol because of just about everyone else.

Every one of those things on that list can be attributed to real cases (except for the voting part).

You would think the blood relative line should be reversed, lessening the chance of birth defects, but I don't think paperwork calling a non biological child family can actually be called incest, even with a loving bond with another family, but I was really thinking of step brothers and step sisters who are married already.
As if an affair wasn't complicated enough, an affair with the spouse's family is just too problematic.

If you go to Rhode Island, you'll see what I mean about cell phones and recording devices (prostitution legalized).

Bragging to friends has a sexting connotation (can also lead to cyberbullying), not just gossip like you see on TV and in movies.

As for 7: I don't believe in gang bangs, but a threesome is just perfect for sex.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:43 PM   #7
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I always wondered if the tea party was the result of too many incestuous knock ups. But maybe you're right-- maybe political morons just happen.
This made me smile.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:30 PM   #8
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fantasies_only, I know about Makenzie Phillips's case. What senator, though?

You always have such interesting things on your mind!
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:56 PM   #9
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3: Nobody under 18 may watch incest unless permitted by parents.


This one made me laugh.......... Is it not incest in a small way or abuse for a parent to show incest porn to a child?
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:59 PM   #10
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I have a story to tell about three things that are illegal, but not crimes. In most jurisdictions of the English speaking world these things are felonies, or the legal equivalent thereof.
  • Marijuana possession
  • Prostitution
  • Consensual adult incest

All are illegal. Each is punishable under law with incarceration, fines, and other such unpleasant consequences. The laws against these things however, are only enforceable for the first two. Incestuous sex between consenting adults is beyond the ability of the state to prevent, prosecute, or punish.

The reason has to do with the nature of each activity. In order to possess a drug like marijuana, you must procure it from somewhere. That means commercial transactions. That means a market. The same thing is true of prostitution. Buyers and sellers of sexual favours seek one another out. Rarely are they already known to one another.

Markets are, by their very nature, not a secret. A secret market is not a market. There are some markets that are less visible than others, but they are never completely secret. This is what makes these two activities vulnerable to interference by agents of the state. The guy you're selling pot to might be a cop, or a CI. The girl advertising her services on Craigslist might be part of a sting. Roll the dice enough times and you'll eventually come up snake eyes.

Consensual adult incest is different because it is, by its very nature, a secret and clandestine activity. If two related adults choose to go somewhere and have sex together, and never tell anyone that they have done so, then there is no way for the state to know that this has happened, and no way to know if they plan to do so again in the future. They are above the law in this case because they are beyond the scope of what its agents have the ability to know or discover. The state and its agents are powerless to interfere in activities they have no knowledge of and no way to gain knowledge of.

So while it would be nice if there were no laws disparaging the innate right of related adults to have sex together if that is what they both wish to do, the existence of such laws is irrelevant for those competent enough to be discreet about their activities.

Those who would seek to see consensual adult incest legalized would do better to work on protecting and expanding protections on personal privacy as this is what provides incestuous couples with the freedom to do as they please without fear of reprisal.
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:46 AM   #11
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well said mate
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:13 AM   #12
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fantasies_only, I know about Makenzie Phillips's case. What senator, though?

You always have such interesting things on your mind!
I was wrong about that (although that may have happened as well).
The daughter was 21 not 18, and the father wasn't a senator, and believe it or not, they are considering making ACI legal in the U.S. which I'm sure many biophiles (one who has biological lover fantasies) would love to hear.

The Supreme Court and a Right to Commit Incest
Links within article

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Old 07-22-2011, 03:27 AM   #13
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cybersexy_dk, I was speaking of what should be, not what is.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:10 AM   #14
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Mmm, I dont see why its illegal in the first place, It happens often enough. Not even really dangerous either, i think it takes like what? 2 or 3 generations of like brother / sister blood relation birth to actually achieve the genetic mutations that people are always so afraid of?
Sure theres a eww factor but really. . to some degree any relationship is incestuous if you look at it to a fine enough degree, Science has shown we originated from a rather small population and expanded, Christianity and other religions claim we came from originally 2 people. I think people just need to get over it and if two people choose to indulge in such a relationship then learn to shut up and get on with your life, no reason to interfere with theirs and no reason they shouldnt be able to do anything you can do in a "normal" relationship.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:22 AM   #15
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Mmm, I dont see why its illegal in the first place, It happens often enough. Not even really dangerous either, i think it takes like what? 2 or 3 generations of like brother / sister blood relation birth to actually achieve the genetic mutations that people are always so afraid of?
Sure theres a eww factor but really. . to some degree any relationship is incestuous if you look at it to a fine enough degree, Science has shown we originated from a rather small population and expanded, Christianity and other religions claim we came from originally 2 people. I think people just need to get over it and if two people choose to indulge in such a relationship then learn to shut up and get on with your life, no reason to interfere with theirs and no reason they shouldnt be able to do anything you can do in a "normal" relationship.
I was looking up more articles about it, and many people are against the idea, but I think that's just because they got used to things this way.

One of the articles made a good point about how we used to be (and some still are) disgusted with same gender sex (although guys will frequently have voyeuristic lesbian fantasies).

Anyway it was once illegal to be a gay man mixing with "normal" society.
We didn't even know about lesbians!

But I digress, most people (government in particular) just don't want change.
Perhaps they're thinking about the "baby boomers" of the 50s who were born from multiple sex partners (orgy acceptance included public nudity).

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Old 07-22-2011, 10:18 AM   #16
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You always have such interesting things on your mind!
That he does! Especially over in Story Ideas from about 2006 to 2009 or so.
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:26 PM   #17
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Perhaps they're thinking about the "baby boomers" of the 50s who were born from multiple sex partners (orgy acceptance included public nudity).
See-- this is what I like about you. These absolutely preposterous claims, made in this dry tone of internet voice...
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:26 PM   #18
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See-- this is what I like about you. These absolutely preposterous claims, made in this dry tone of internet voice...


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Old 07-23-2011, 05:23 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Hans101 View Post
I have a story to tell about three things that are illegal, but not crimes. In most jurisdictions of the English speaking world these things are felonies, or the legal equivalent thereof.
  • Marijuana possession
  • Prostitution
  • Consensual adult incest

All are illegal. Each is punishable under law with incarceration, fines, and other such unpleasant consequences. The laws against these things however, are only enforceable for the first two. Incestuous sex between consenting adults is beyond the ability of the state to prevent, prosecute, or punish.

The reason has to do with the nature of each activity. In order to possess a drug like marijuana, you must procure it from somewhere. That means commercial transactions. That means a market. The same thing is true of prostitution. Buyers and sellers of sexual favours seek one another out. Rarely are they already known to one another.

Markets are, by their very nature, not a secret. A secret market is not a market. There are some markets that are less visible than others, but they are never completely secret. This is what makes these two activities vulnerable to interference by agents of the state. The guy you're selling pot to might be a cop, or a CI. The girl advertising her services on Craigslist might be part of a sting. Roll the dice enough times and you'll eventually come up snake eyes.

Consensual adult incest is different because it is, by its very nature, a secret and clandestine activity. If two related adults choose to go somewhere and have sex together, and never tell anyone that they have done so, then there is no way for the state to know that this has happened, and no way to know if they plan to do so again in the future. They are above the law in this case because they are beyond the scope of what its agents have the ability to know or discover. The state and its agents are powerless to interfere in activities they have no knowledge of and no way to gain knowledge of.

So while it would be nice if there were no laws disparaging the innate right of related adults to have sex together if that is what they both wish to do, the existence of such laws is irrelevant for those competent enough to be discreet about their activities.

Those who would seek to see consensual adult incest legalized would do better to work on protecting and expanding protections on personal privacy as this is what provides incestuous couples with the freedom to do as they please without fear of reprisal.
I'm not sure this guy is telling the whole story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3nB3WJjsbg
Note: This didn't take place in America, and the opinions of this person don't reflect my views unless precautions aren't taken.

Hans101, you said it is legal, but that's for step siblings and cousins.
I'm talking about father/daughter or mother/son.
So far I've seen (stories of) prostitution legal in Vegas and Rhode Island.
Marihuana is legal in parts of California (I don't know exactly where).

Other outrageous things I won't mention are also legal in some places.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:34 AM   #20
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Incest fantasies turn me on. A lot. But only as fantasies. I have no interest in ever acting on them. My earliest sexual experience was with a first cousin, and if I could change that now, I would.

That said, I don't think *anything* between *consenting adults* should be illegal. Whether I have moral objections to it or not, I see no reason for the coercive power of the state to be involved in preventing/punishing victimless crimes.

Of course, incest involving minors is a different story, and I want the state to play its proper role there.
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:21 AM   #21
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Incest fantasies turn me on. A lot. But only as fantasies. I have no interest in ever acting on them. My earliest sexual experience was with a first cousin, and if I could change that now, I would.

That said, I don't think *anything* between *consenting adults* should be illegal. Whether I have moral objections to it or not, I see no reason for the coercive power of the state to be involved in preventing/punishing victimless crimes.

Of course, incest involving minors is a different story, and I want the state to play its proper role there.
I guess you and I are in the minority here.
Is there someone on the board not posting who would like to speak up?
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:04 AM   #22
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Mmm, I dont see why its illegal in the first place, It happens often enough. Not even really dangerous either, i think it takes like what? 2 or 3 generations of like brother / sister blood relation birth to actually achieve the genetic mutations that people are always so afraid of?
Sure theres a eww factor but really. . to some degree any relationship is incestuous if you look at it to a fine enough degree, Science has shown we originated from a rather small population and expanded, Christianity and other religions claim we came from originally 2 people. I think people just need to get over it and if two people choose to indulge in such a relationship then learn to shut up and get on with your life, no reason to interfere with theirs and no reason they shouldnt be able to do anything you can do in a "normal" relationship.
Ahh, the perfect world.... Yet we have enforced a code of conduct, voted and accepted in democratic regions of the world- And then the big "but"; 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' Weither it be religious, political or home- the abuse of naivety, trust and love occurs.

As adults in consensual incestuous relationship? I honestly can only see that occurring in Fantasy. For in reality parents annoy the living shit out of there older children, no matter how friendly and understanding or how close a familial bond, there is that "thing" that just irks. And it flows in both directions too, the son and or daughter has a button they push that just "wipes out" all communication like a Nuke- This gap never closes, it's there through ones 20's, 30's 40's so no, consensual relations must be very few and far far between.
(in my humble opinion as a "grumpy old man")
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:15 AM   #23
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Ahh, the perfect world.... Yet we have enforced a code of conduct, voted and accepted in democratic regions of the world- And then the big "but"; 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' Weither it be religious, political or home- the abuse of naivety, trust and love occurs.

As adults in consensual incestuous relationship? I honestly can only see that occurring in Fantasy. For in reality parents annoy the living shit out of there older children, no matter how friendly and understanding or how close a familial bond, there is that "thing" that just irks. And it flows in both directions too, the son and or daughter has a button they push that just "wipes out" all communication like a Nuke- This gap never closes, it's there through ones 20's, 30's 40's so no, consensual relations must be very few and far far between.
(in my humble opinion as a "grumpy old man")
I presume they are very rare but, key point of it was, If they occur, i dont think people should get all upset about it, I mean its only been like. . past one to two thousand years or so since incest got all taboo lol. up until then it wasnt all the unnatural, kids learned about sex by experimenting with their siblings, some of them stayed together lmao. So incest is actually pretty much natural to human and any normal species anyways lol.

Chance of adult incest happening nowadays? Slim. . I know of quite a few people who experimented with one of their siblings (one of my ex's learned how to eat a girl out by practicing on his sister), Its not that uncommon even nowadays, its just more hush hush omg the shame omg lol. But chance of it becoming a public relationship that lasts, yea just. . not going to happen, not with how closed minded people are, They'd probably both be shot by some "upstanding" christians who felt it was the right thing to do.
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:45 AM   #24
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I presume they are very rare but, key point of it was, If they occur, i dont think people should get all upset about it, I mean its only been like. . past one to two thousand years or so since incest got all taboo lol. up until then it wasnt all the unnatural, kids learned about sex by experimenting with their siblings, some of them stayed together lmao. So incest is actually pretty much natural to human and any normal species anyways lol.

Chance of adult incest happening nowadays? Slim. . I know of quite a few people who experimented with one of their siblings (one of my ex's learned how to eat a girl out by practicing on his sister), Its not that uncommon even nowadays, its just more hush hush omg the shame omg lol. But chance of it becoming a public relationship that lasts, yea just. . not going to happen, not with how closed minded people are, They'd probably both be shot by some "upstanding" christians who felt it was the right thing to do.
I agree with your last point- and yes it is natural to experiment- As it stands the social stigma is huge, but I believe, in all relationships, weither it be an affair or against the family type- that secrecy can only last so long before the need to be accepted, to be seen in public and to be able to relax becomes a huge issue... for it is a normal need to want to feel comfortable walking hand in hand with the person you love, any where and at any time- but the more secret the relationship the more intense that self imposed need becomes- But that is only me talking from experience... (and something I avoid because of same)
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Old 07-23-2011, 03:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I don't think *anything* between *consenting adults* should be illegal. Whether I have moral objections to it or not, I see no reason for the coercive power of the state to be involved in preventing/punishing victimless crimes.
Quote:
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Ahh, the perfect world....
Maybe not such a minority after all.
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