We don't need no stinking badges!!!

I've been a long time lurker and rarely comment, but after catching up on threads lately I can't possibly be the only one who's tired of certain people thread jacking for the purpose of imposing their strict opinion on the proper use of BDSM terms.

For the love of god, let people just ask questions and learn. It's getting old. We all get it - top/bottom, dom/sub, master/slave, proper use of combinations (bottom dom, top sub, confused switch in the middle) - that apparently most people are just plain ignorant regarding their own place in their relationship - and that heterosexual people abuse the terms more and are the root of this problem.

It really doesn't matter. I've read pages and pages of arguing about the correct usage of these terms and it interrupts whatever the original topic was. I clicked on the thread title for a reason - because I'm interested in THAT TOPIC. We all get the picture. It's all the "mainstream's" fault.

If you want to argue it, start your own damned thread and title it "you're all idiots who don't understand BDSM terminology."

If I'm the only one with this view, than ban me, flame me, do whatever.

xoxo,
izod

I understand where you are coming from, at times, it gets rather annoying to hear people argue back and forth over meaningless shit.

However, in all honesty, I am a sub, and that is what I am and love.

Try not to get too frustrated over certain things that you cannot control. As I'm sure you know, there is nothing really anyone can do to keep people to stay on topic. It will happen.

Just let go and let live.

CurvAppeal said:

I understand where you are coming from, at times, it gets rather annoying to hear people argue back and forth over meaningless shit.

However, in all honesty, I am a sub, and that is what I am and love.

Try not to get too frustrated over certain things that you cannot control. As I'm sure you know, there is nothing really anyone can do to keep people to stay on topic. It will happen.

Just let go and let live.

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I totally understand and agree.

I'm a dom, my wife is a sub, it is what it is.

I'll try my best, just had to vent a little. I figured I couldn't be the only person tired of it.

izod said:

I totally understand and agree.

I'm a dom, my wife is a sub, it is what it is.

I'll try my best, just had to vent a little.

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Hehe, it is alright. We all deserve a little venting here and there.

thank you

No offense to anyone, but who really cares what titles you want to place on someone else or yourself. I would call myself a sub, I would also call my best friend a sub, even though we share some attitudes, we are very different. I have another friend who is a dom.

But so long as we are having fun and enjoying each other who cares. People need to worry about their own lives, before trying to decide what is the right title or name for someone else.

If they want to use the term sub/dom or bottom/top, let them. So long as they know their place, its all good.

You missed a choice:

No, it's important to give people as much information as possible so they can make their own choices.

Passive agressive polls FTW!

Stella_Omega said:

You missed a choice:

No, it's important to give people as much information as possible so they can make their own choices.

Passive agressive polls FTW!

Click to expand...

I disagree. I knew I wanted to be controlled before I even learned the word "submissive" in the context of BDSM. People don't need to know the labels to make the choice of what they like.

That aside, I am getting tired of seeing posts like "I thought I was _____ but I am also into _______. Am I still a _______? Is anyone else into this?"

And to this I really like to say:

NO YOU CANNOT BE _________ BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING _________. NO ONE ELSE DOES THAT. YOU ARE ONE OF A KIND. STOP DOING IT WRONG. WHY CAN'T YOU BE _______ LIKE ALL THE OTHER ______S?

There, I said it. So are you going to stop doing whatever turns you on now? If not, obviously you don't give a damn about others' opinions so STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT OTHERS THINK BY POSTING YOUR IDIOTIC QUESTIONS HERE.

</end of rant>

Stella_Omega said:

You missed a choice:

No, it's important to give people as much information as possible so they can make their own choices.

Passive agressive polls FTW!

Click to expand...

I don't think it was passive aggressive at all. I don't think there is any question as to my position, opinion, or the fact that I'm tired of this shit.

Most recently I recall a thread talking about different kinds of dominants. This thread had NOTHING to do with the definition of a dom as opposed to top or master or king or president. Regardless, it ended up being an 8 page tirade about, and I'm quoting, "the lack of vocabulary in hetero BDSM."

So no - I didn't miss a choice. If someone wants to directly ask "please help me understand the difference between X and Y" - have at it! But otherwise, EVERYONE needs to stop with the thread jacking!

izod said:

I don't think it was passive aggressive at all. I don't think there is any question as to my position, opinion, or the fact that I'm tired of this shit.

Most recently I recall a thread talking about different kinds of dominants. This thread had NOTHING to do with the definition of a dom as opposed to top or master or king or president. Regardless, it ended up being an 8 page tirade about, and I'm quoting, "the lack of vocabulary in hetero BDSM."

So no - I didn't miss a choice. If someone wants to directly ask "please help me understand the difference between X and Y" - have at it! But otherwise, EVERYONE needs to stop with the thread jacking!

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Yes, that thread definitely got jacked. I was pretty surprised, at that. I had no idea that people would be so incredibly confused by the addition of two more words to the vocab.

welkin said:

I disagree. I knew I wanted to be controlled before I even learned the word "submissive" in the context of BDSM. People don't need to know the labels to make the choice of what they like.

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Well, that's nice for you, because you're right in tune with the majority defaults, aren't you? But someone like me-- say she shows up in the scene and someone says: "You want a spanking, you better SUBMIT baby!"

She says "Submit, what? I just want the endorphins" and they tell her:

"UR DOIN IT RONG you are a lousy sub."

be nice if she had some other parameters, doncha think?

That aside, I am getting tired of seeing posts like "I thought I was _____ but I am also into _______. Am I still a _______? Is anyone else into this?"

And to this I really like to say:

NO YOU CANNOT BE _________ BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING _________. NO ONE ELSE DOES THAT. YOU ARE ONE OF A KIND. STOP DOING IT WRONG. WHY CAN'T YOU BE _______ LIKE ALL THE OTHER ______S?

There, I said it. So are you going to stop doing whatever turns you on now? If not, obviously you don't give a damn about others' opinions so STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT OTHERS THINK BY POSTING YOUR IDIOTIC QUESTIONS HERE.

</end of rant>

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Well you see, that's the problem. It isn't the same person coming back with the same question. It's brand new people every time.

It might seem like everyone should have the answer once you've given it-- or that people who ask AGAIN are doing it just to fuck with your head or something-- but you know it doesn't work that way.

Stella_Omega said:

Yes, that thread definitely got jacked. I was pretty surprised, at that. I had no idea that people would be so incredibly confused by the addition of two more words to the vocab.

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Now who's being passive aggressive? No confusion would've happened if you hadn't been so inclined as to ensure that EVERYONE knew YOUR definition of these terms. Was there a manual everyone got that I seemed to miss? I didn't know about the BDSM entrance exam that made sure I understood the definitions to these terms as strictly defined by committee.

Stella_Omega said:

Well, that's nice for you, because you're right in tune with the majority defaults, aren't you? But someone like me-- say she shows up in the scene and someone says: "You want a spanking, you better SUBMIT baby!"

She says "Submit, what? I just want the endorphins" and they tell her:

"UR DOIN IT RONG you are a lousy sub."

be nice if she had some other parameters, doncha think?

Click to expand...

Want to know the great thing? We're not freaking ROBOTS. We can express and articulate feelings, desires, and intentions. If a mis-communication occurs, it can quickly be resolved by sane, safe, and consenting adults.

If I asked you to go masticate with me, you might be offended. Upon sensing your offense, I'd realize that you didn't know what I was talking about - and correct my apparently ineffective attempt at communication. I'd reoffer by asking if you'd like to get a bite to eat.

Isn't it amazing how that works?

Stella_Omega said:

Well you see, that's the problem. It isn't the same person coming back with the same question. It's brand new people every time.

It might seem like everyone should have the answer once you've given it-- or that people who ask AGAIN are doing it just to fuck with your head or something-- but you know it doesn't work that way.

Click to expand...

On principal, I don't have a problem with threads dedicated to the topic of vocabulary - I think that's where the discussion should stay. On the other hand, why not just chastise them for not searching in the first place?

.

I'm very sorry this is so annoying to you. If I hadn't had a half a dozen PMs from people thanking me-- not to mention posts in those threads thanking me-- I'd be devastated at my bad manners.

Tell you what-- you know there's an ignore function? Use it, put me on ignore. Life is too short to get shrill.

Stella_Omega said:

.

I'm very sorry this is so annoying to you. If I hadn't had a half a dozen PMs from people thanking me-- not to mention posts in those threads thanking me-- I'd be devastated at my bad manners.

Tell you what-- you know there's an ignore function? Use it, put me on ignore. Life is too short to get shrill.

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It's ok! I'm just saying - this has been up a couple hours and we're at a 7/0 vote. I'm all for educating the curious, all I'm asking is maybe tone down the label definitions in unrelated topics?

I think anyone willing to share their opinion and help others learn is awesome. I know I'm frustrated, and I'm sure you might be able to see where I'm coming from. Sorry if I come across as shrill.

I do want to thank you for some of your other insights and posts - they've definitely given me some additional knowledge and questions. I don't want to hit ignore because who knows all the topics where we might agree and/or have some interesting discussion?

I don't really have anything else to say - so thanks, and thanks.

Well, I didn't vote because you didn't provide my option. Life isn't so binary.

If that's all you were asking, you could have PM'd me. Honest. I've had more PM's since that thread started, than in weeks-- and one was from a long-timer who said I've inspired him to rethink his preferred label, two were from newbies saying thanks that I helped them feel better, and there were several people who spoke up in the thread thanking me. I'm service-oriented, I'm a whore for thanks. Otherwise, trust me, I wouldn't have continued.

Please, feel free to PM me if you think I'm being an idiot. Don't fester, festering sucks.

And, you're welcome.

Orright, I'm gonna put an end to this once and for all.

Line up bitches, and be anointed.

http://cdn.dealsdirect.net/m/products/84/4084/1/product1_4084.jpg

I'm a stickler for semantic and correct usage of words to ensure that communication can be had. That is why I do not mind labels/definitions conversations.

That said, once the basic principle of the meaning are established, I don't care if you decide to give the words a totally different meaning. Just do not be surprised though if other people don't agree with you or end up assuming the wrong thing about you.

Lizzie_Borden said:

Orright, I'm gonna put an end to this once and for all.

Line up bitches, and be anointed.

http://cdn.dealsdirect.net/m/products/84/4084/1/product1_4084.jpg

Click to expand...

LOL

thanks for the poll

It is fine and good to have proper terms for things. The problem comes about when ... I don't know quite how to express this ... the attempt is made to enforce labels so strictly that they cease to be useful in describing. For example, most of my subs (I call them that because they have submitted to my control) do not react well to real pain or anything with even a hint of the truly non-consentual. Our relationships have been a gentle form, a form that is theatre and for us has been pure delight. There are those who may say 'oh, that means they're not really sub' but we disagree. When I slide the collar around her neck that is the signal that she is on stage, that she's playing the part of the wanton and that is the space where she can put aside the parental tapes of 'nice girls don't feel that way', using a little mind-switch of 'I'm being made to do this so any pleasure that I feel is not my fault and doesn't count against my parental admonitions' and achieve complete pleasure. The pleasure for us is real as real can be. To be told 'oh, you're not a real sub' or 'oh you're not a real Dom' because I don't use clover clamps or some other truly painful device would be an attempt to de-legitimize our definition of our own pleasure. So, to draw this epistle to a close, terms in this arena (much like a well fitting collar) must have a little bit of wiggle room in them to allow folks their individual pleasures.
Again, thanks for the poll. It is a wonderful cry for reasonableness in a place where we all are striving for freedom to experience our own brands of individual pleasure.

Maybe have one discussion for labels and put it in the sticky (or there may be one already), and whenever the same question comes up in other unrelated posts, link the one discussion thread and then move on with the original topic.

Lizzie_Borden said:

Orright, I'm gonna put an end to this once and for all.

Line up bitches, and be anointed.

http://cdn.dealsdirect.net/m/products/84/4084/1/product1_4084.jpg

Click to expand...

*giggles*

welkin said:

Maybe have one discussion for labels and put it in the sticky (or there may be one already), and whenever the same question comes up in other unrelated posts, link the one discussion thread and then move on with the original topic.

Click to expand...

Yup there's tons. I'm sure gracie has them all nice and neatly catagorized in the Library, if anyone bothered to look. That's why there is a library, so that the first page isn't half stickies.



My brain likes to catagorize things, and people even. It likes to keep them in nice little boxes. But some times things fall out of one box, and try to crawl into another. I have a hard time with this. It takes me longer to "be okay" with this than I think it should.

For instance, I primarily identify as a service oriented sub, but I do have a sadistic incling that comes out and plays every now and then. I'm in a relationship with some one who likes to make me happy. If that means he gets his balls busted every once in a while, he's willing to do it. He'll even push me to do it because he knows I enjoy it, but my brain has a hard time putting him in that situation.

I struggled for a long time with that, with being able to share that part of me with him because my brain put him in the PYL box and while in the PYL box he couldn't be in a position that I saw as under me. It hurt him that I couldn't share that part of me with him, but I could others, because he had been placed in a neatly labled box and my mind couldn't take him out of it. I didn't like hurting him this way.

This has made me realize, and really thanks a lot to Stella and her "top/bottom" additions, that I really don't care to have a lable on everything and every one anymore. I am who I am, I like what I like, We are what we are, and we do what we like because we like it. That should be enough.

I voted for precision in labelling. How can we have proper discourse if we don't define our terms?

Here is my label:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7NitmzzZX8

Kitschshaman said:

It is fine and good to have proper terms for things. The problem comes about when ... I don't know quite how to express this ... the attempt is made to enforce labels so strictly that they cease to be useful in describing. For example, most of my subs (I call them that because they have submitted to my control) do not react well to real pain or anything with even a hint of the truly non-consentual. Our relationships have been a gentle form, a form that is theatre and for us has been pure delight. There are those who may say 'oh, that means they're not really sub' but we disagree.

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You can tell those folks that your subs are not masochists and you are not a sadistic dom.

A sub, or someone who bottoms in other ways, might not be a masochist at all-- not desire any pain, ever. Plenty of people like that around here.

Again, the problems arise when people expect one word to do the duty of many. They then expect everything out of anyone who gets defined by that one word. That's why I bring up these other words when people show up confused about their identities.

If I had a physical label slapped on me for every one I identify with (and just sex-related ones), I'd be covered from head to toe.

I always felt that kind of defeated the purpose. ;B

KoPilot said:

If I had a physical label slapped on me for every one I identify with (and just sex-related ones), I'd be covered from head to toe.

I always felt that kind of defeated the purpose. ;B

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Yeah, you probably have more than me.

I only slap on the ones that are important for any particular occasion, leaving the rest in my sixth-dimensional locker until they are needed.

Didn't vote because there is no option for gum.

All day long I've been thinking that "back in the day" when we simply acknowledged things as PYL/pyl it kinda sorta covered everything. The "old timers" made a point to explain -

PYL = Top/Dominant/Domme/Master/Mistress
pyl = bottom/submissive/slave