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Old 08-23-2014, 08:54 PM   #1
lovecraft68
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Is this under age?

I just clicked on a story-I won't say the title or author's name, but this is the tag line.

She hasn't seen her son since he was 12 - six years ago.

Okay, so reading it we can tell the character is 18 at the time this is written, but still.....saying it right in the tag line?

I skimmed the first two pages and it seems to be a "reunion" and the son is 18, but again I didn't think something like that would fly in a tag line.

Is this a site oversight or is it okay to do this? I see no reason why I would be inclined to, but I'm curious.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
I just clicked on a story-I won't say the title or author's name, but this is the tag line.

She hasn't seen her son since he was 12 - six years ago.

Okay, so reading it we can tell the character is 18 at the time this is written, but still.....saying it right in the tag line?

I skimmed the first two pages and it seems to be a "reunion" and the son is 18, but again I didn't think something like that would fly in a tag line.

Is this a site oversight or is it okay to do this? I see no reason why I would be inclined to, but I'm curious.
If he's eighteen when he has sex, who cares about the arithmetic in the tag line? I had one in which you had to know that a learner's permit was issued at fifteen, was good two years, and a particular one had been expired for one. I never said outright that my heroine was eighteen--but she was.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Serafina1210 View Post
If he's eighteen when he has sex, who cares about the arithmetic in the tag line? I had one in which you had to know that a learner's permit was issued at fifteen, was good two years, and a particular one had been expired for one. I never said outright that my heroine was eighteen--but she was.
The story itself is not underage at all that I can see. But I know the site gets paranoid with mention of it and I was surprised to see "12" in a tag. Never come across that before and wondered where it fit in the "rule"

I'm fairly straight forward in mine and find a way in the flow of the story to state 18 off the bat.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
The story itself is not underage at all that I can see. But I know the site gets paranoid with mention of it and I was surprised to see "12" in a tag. Never come across that before and wondered where it fit in the "rule"

I'm fairly straight forward in mine and find a way in the flow of the story to state 18 off the bat.
You might even say the tag line makes the story less squicky--she's a little less his mom for not having seen him for six years. Anyway, the calculation of the age is easy. It's hardly possible to mistake the boy's age.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Serafina1210 View Post
You might even say the tag line makes the story less squicky--she's a little less his mom for not having seen him for six years. Anyway, the calculation of the age is easy. It's hardly possible to mistake the boy's age.
Again I'm not ridiculing the author, the math is easy enough. I was surprised to see it posted that way.

And yes the separation would take the "edge off" but in that category, would it matter? Incest is not squicky in incest. But it makes it more "realistic" in that porn absurdity kind of way.

Westermarck theory and all.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
Again I'm not ridiculing the author, the math is easy enough. I was surprised to see it posted that way.

And yes the separation would take the "edge off" but in that category, would it matter? Incest is not squicky in incest. But it makes it more "realistic" in that porn absurdity kind of way.

Westermarck theory and all.
Yeah, I guess so. But as I said in some other thread here, I don't get incest at all. I'm sure I couldn't write a good story in that category. (That might be a good reason to try, actually. )
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:40 PM   #7
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It is on my twelfth birthday I notice her as an individual. Up until that time, she is part of the group I knew as relatives. It's the time in a boy's life when girls are no longer yucky and they start to be more than just a person who is not a boy.
First 3 sentences from my story God Mother. Of course there is no sex until he turns 18, some 25 paragraphs later.
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:15 AM   #8
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...well, no, it's clearly not underage. As you say. Given that, I don't really understand the question?

Is the gist perhaps that it might be in poor taste to have the mental image of a 12 year old boy so close to a graphically sexual story? I mean, maybe. Not having read the story yet I can't say. But even if it were, what difference does it really make?
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:20 AM   #9
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I'd say that the author did it on purpose, to get the under age loving pervs to think about what might have happened six years previously.

But as with the OP, the tag line kind of makes me think "ick", and wonder if the site might have spent a little time checking out the story before approving it.
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:31 AM   #10
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You can even hint or say outright that your character was raped or had sex at an early age, and that affected his/her character, but DON'T try describing the rape, that won't fly. I have often said things such as "Those things I learned so many years ago in that boy scout tent." as long as I don't describe them.
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:38 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Serafina1210 View Post
Yeah, I guess so. But as I said in some other thread here, I don't get incest at all. I'm sure I couldn't write a good story in that category. (That might be a good reason to try, actually. )
I think I said somewhere recently that unless you are writing mindless stroke (mom sees son's cock in paragraph two and hops on it in paragraph three, end of story) Incest can be a challenging category if you want to try for some form of justification or realism, or as much realism as you can get. Its a trick to get a reader to say "Yeah, I could really see that happening"

I did one where when the mother found her son's journal and read that he wanted her sexually she.....took him to a therapist Of course later things changed or it wouldn't have fit that category, but I at least threw in what would be a normal reaction.

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Old 08-24-2014, 08:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 49greg View Post
I'd say that the author did it on purpose, to get the under age loving pervs to think about what might have happened six years previously.

But as with the OP, the tag line kind of makes me think "ick", and wonder if the site might have spent a little time checking out the story before approving it.
This is what I was waiting for someone to say. No matter what is in the story(and I did not see underage) that line is a magnet for the type of crowd I thought the rule was created to discourage which was why I was surprised it was put through. It would have been easy to kick it back to the author with a note to change the tag line to something like.....

"It had been six years since she'd seen her son."

I wonder how many clicks it got for the tag line alone and how many fans of kiddie porn clicked off disgusted because there was none in it.

This goes back to that train wreck thread in the feedback forum as to how this site consistently/inconsistently enforces its own rules.
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:50 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Zeb_Carter View Post
First 3 sentences from my story God Mother. Of course there is no sex until he turns 18, some 25 paragraphs later.
"I was sixteen years old and laying on my bed and unable to sleep, thought about seeing if my sister was awake in the next room and would want to talk."

First line from a story from me three years ago that was Rejected. There was no sex at all. The character gets up, goes to his sister's room (she is 18) and they sit and talk about his nightmares. Nothing sexual at all until later in the chapter.

The conversation was a flashback and later in the chapter we come back to the present where he is 21 and she is 23 and they have sex.

But as I said rejected. And there have been many threads over time here with people having rejections from saying an age in a story and there was no sex.

But here it is in the tag.

My point as its always been is a little more detailed posting fo the rules would be nice along with a little consistency.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:06 AM   #14
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Yet the sub and dom clearly rely on a latent father daughter dynamic. A lot of BDSM I look at is incest by another name, and sometimes vice versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serafina1210 View Post
Yeah, I guess so. But as I said in some other thread here, I don't get incest at all. I'm sure I couldn't write a good story in that category. (That might be a good reason to try, actually. )
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:19 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
"I was sixteen years old and laying on my bed and unable to sleep, thought about seeing if my sister was awake in the next room and would want to talk."

First line from a story from me three years ago that was Rejected. There was no sex at all. The character gets up, goes to his sister's room (she is 18) and they sit and talk about his nightmares. Nothing sexual at all until later in the chapter.

The conversation was a flashback and later in the chapter we come back to the present where he is 21 and she is 23 and they have sex.

But as I said rejected. And there have been many threads over time here with people having rejections from saying an age in a story and there was no sex.

But here it is in the tag.

My point as its always been is a little more detailed posting fo the rules would be nice along with a little consistency.
I think your reader probably didn't read far enough.

I'm divided on how explicit the rule should be. It's useful to authors to have detailed guidance, but on the other hand, whenever you draw a line, people will find it fun to flirt a bit with violating it, searching out whatever fuzziness is there. If they're looking for fuzziness, they'll always find it. It's sort of like the way campaign finance laws go stale once the lawyers find the workarounds.

What rule would you bolt on to cover this situation? "Don't momentarily mislead your reader into thinking a character is underage, only to correct the impression later." Awkward! How many such rules would there have to be to govern special cases?

If that story of mine (mentioned above) had been rejected, the rule might have been "Don't make your reader calculate your character's age" (that might also cover the story you mentioned). Should the rule be to state the age outright when it gets near the line?

"She hasn't seen her son since he was 12 - but now he's 18 and they're gonna fuck!"

(Hmm, maybe not so bad.)
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:21 AM   #16
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Yet the sub and dom clearly rely on a latent father daughter dynamic. A lot of BDSM I look at is incest by another name, and sometimes vice versa.
Yeah, that whole Daddy thing. I'm actually doing a sort of parody of that with my current series.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:28 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by squirrelzo View Post
Yet the sub and dom clearly rely on a latent father daughter dynamic. A lot of BDSM I look at is incest by another name, and sometimes vice versa.
I do see that a lot and have never understood it, I have never personally been into that dynamic.

But in a d/s relationship the dom does become a sort of father figure in the sense that he takes care of and nurtures his sub as well as doling out punishments and setting the rules. So I can see where it could come from.

But I think that is more of looking for a "father figure" than actual incest. Some women just want to be taken care of and men their age are not capable in those ways.

On the flip side I do not see a Female Dom with a male sub in any form of mother/son type dynamic, but that is because women dominants, unlike male dominants, do not need their egos stroked nearly as much. They are about control pure and simple.

Let's face it, many male doms still deal with their own insecurities and domination helps prove how "manly" they truly are. My theory is the more over the top the dom the more insecure that male really is.

Theories like this are why I'm not popular amongst the male crowd.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Serafina1210 View Post
I think your reader probably didn't read far enough.

I'm divided on how explicit the rule should be. It's useful to authors to have detailed guidance, but on the other hand, whenever you draw a line, people will find it fun to flirt a bit with violating it, searching out whatever fuzziness is there. If they're looking for fuzziness, they'll always find it. It's sort of like the way campaign finance laws go stale once the lawyers find the workarounds.

What rule would you bolt on to cover this situation? "Don't momentarily mislead your reader into thinking a character is underage, only to correct the impression later." Awkward! How many such rules would there have to be to govern special cases?

If that story of mine (mentioned above) had been rejected, the rule might have been "Don't make your reader calculate your character's age" (that might also cover the story you mentioned). Should the rule be to state the age outright when it gets near the line?

"She hasn't seen her son since he was 12 - but now he's 18 and they're gonna fuck!"

(Hmm, maybe not so bad.)
I know they did not, they stopped right at the number which is what makes this instance an eye roll. I hadn't been writing long here at the time so simply shifted over to "doing math"

"It was three years ago and I was...." was the accepted version.

I agree about people always trying to find a way. Its that "rules are made to be broken" mentality combined with the fact we write edgy material to begin with.

everyone is different, I feel no need to write about young kids having sex so the rule has never affected what I do here in the "present"

But I think rejecting something like "I was 14 the first time I jerked off" is a little much. It is a statement, not a detailed flashback and there are examples here of that both being rejected and being accepted.

The rules are posted in a link that goes to that thread by "killer muffin" it is years old and I think it wouldn't be a bad thing for the site to reexamine them and update them and post them somewhere easily visible.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:37 AM   #19
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Yet the sub and dom clearly rely on a latent father daughter dynamic. A lot of BDSM I look at is incest by another name, and sometimes vice versa.
My wife and I role play a lot, everything from simple "teacher/student boss/secretary fantasies right up to taboo brother/sister.

But the one thing I have never been into or ever want to hear is her call me daddy in any situation. The fact I have two daughters is probably where that stems from, but its about the only limit I have.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:40 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
I do see that a lot and have never understood it, I have never personally been into that dynamic.

But in a d/s relationship the dom does become a sort of father figure in the sense that he takes care of and nurtures his sub as well as doling out punishments and setting the rules. So I can see where it could come from.

But I think that is more of looking for a "father figure" than actual incest. Some women just want to be taken care of and men their age are not capable in those ways.

On the flip side I do not see a Female Dom with a male sub in any form of mother/son type dynamic, but that is because women dominants, unlike male dominants, do not need their egos stroked nearly as much. They are about control pure and simple.

Let's face it, many male doms still deal with their own insecurities and domination helps prove how "manly" they truly are. My theory is the more over the top the dom the more insecure that male really is.

Theories like this are why I'm not popular amongst the male crowd.
You can look for a father figure without becoming a little girl or feeling incestuous--but it seems to me that infantilizing of the woman is basic to the Daddy/little relationship. Look at the "Daddy's Little Girl" thread

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=980142

and see what you think. It's not actual incest, of course, but you might call it incest play.

The question about whether a D/s relationship can ever be mother/son has come up in the BDSM forum (sorry too lazy to search out the thread), and the answer, IIRC, seemed to be that it was rare, if it ever happened at all.

About the insecure male dom--yeah, definitely. Some of the literature covers that. It's the kind of dom you want to steer clear of--he's dangerous.

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Old 08-24-2014, 09:40 AM   #21
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I agree about the mom/son not translating.

Yes true. The connection is latent. Then again Daddy dom is a common term.

Im sure that opinion makes you popular with the BDSM crowd as well!

Btw I totally agree that the 12 yr old reference is a siren to pedos. Why else phrase it that way?


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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
I do see that a lot and have never understood it, I have never personally been into that dynamic.

But in a d/s relationship the dom does become a sort of father figure in the sense that he takes care of and nurtures his sub as well as doling out punishments and setting the rules. So I can see where it could come from.

But I think that is more of looking for a "father figure" than actual incest. Some women just want to be taken care of and men their age are not capable in those ways.

On the flip side I do not see a Female Dom with a male sub in any form of mother/son type dynamic, but that is because women dominants, unlike male dominants, do not need their egos stroked nearly as much. They are about control pure and simple.

Let's face it, many male doms still deal with their own insecurities and domination helps prove how "manly" they truly are. My theory is the more over the top the dom the more insecure that male really is.

Theories like this are why I'm not popular amongst the male crowd.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:42 AM   #22
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Btw I totally agree that the 12 yr old reference is a siren to pedos. Why else phrase it that way?
well, it could be she hasn't seen her son in 6 years...
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:48 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Serafina1210 View Post
You can look for a father figure without becoming a little girl--but it seems to me that infantilizing of the woman is basic to the Daddy/little relationship. Look at the "Daddy's Little Girl" thread

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=980142

and see what you think. It's not actual incest, of course, but you might call it incest play.

The question about whether a D/s relationship can ever be mother/son has come up in the BDSM forum (sorry too lazy to search out the thread), and the answer, IIRC, seemed to be that it was rare, if it ever happened at all.

About the insecure male dom--yeah, definitely. Some of the literature covers that. It's the kind of dom you want to steer clear of--he's dangerous.
Yes they are. I spend time volunteering at a shelter for women who have been abused in domestic situations or raped. I teach a self defense course. It helps them learn to defend themselves if ever in that spot again. but more importantly gives some confidence and self esteem back to them.

Over the years there have been occasions where I have met their ex who is still stalking them.

You are half right, they are dangerous, but 90% of the time only to women. They are about as loathsome and pathetic an individual as you can find. I was raised around men like that and saw what they did, I went the other way. There some who consider me potentially dangerous, but its never towards women. I am a confirmed man hater (that type anyway) so am very familiar with that type.

As for the "dangerous dom"? They are out there and without getting into a long debate about it I will say that 50 Shades of Gray was not only a repulsive book that glorified that type of man, but sent naive women of all ages out there looking for him.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:51 AM   #24
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I agree about the mom/son not translating.

Yes true. The connection is latent. Then again Daddy dom is a common term.

Im sure that opinion makes you popular with the BDSM crowd as well!

Btw I totally agree that the 12 yr old reference is a siren to pedos. Why else phrase it that way?
The author is new and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt as far as "intentions" But that is where the site is supposed to step in and make that call.

Perhaps the site read through and was convinced it was not underage which is fine, but they should have changed that tag, it will draw that crowd to it.

Unless the site is fine with getting those types of views, but according to them the whole purpose of the rule has nothing to do with legal issues or their own opinions it is about avoiding the pedos and the law enforcement that follows them.

That tag line is a beacon for one and eventually the other.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:58 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Serafina1210 View Post
.The question about whether a D/s relationship can ever be mother/son has come up in the BDSM forum (sorry too lazy to search out the thread), and the answer, IIRC, seemed to be that it was rare, if it ever happened at all.
This reminds me of a good point my wife made about the difference in dynamics between men and women involved with much younger partners.

First look at the men with the young girls. I am not talking BDSM just real life. Take the 45 year old professional guy with some money. He's with some 22 year old girl who is either looking for the daddy figure or maybe just a sugar daddy, but one way or another she wants to be taken care of and he will.

The guy in general does not just have sex with them, he moves them in, he goes out with them on his arm. Look at me guys, wish you were me, huh? They have to flaunt it to show off how "cool" they are. They have to show everyone what they have because they need that ego stroke.

Women? 45 year old woman goes out and finds a 21 year old cub and....fucks them and that's pretty much about it. They do not move them in and play house. They do not bring them to work functions, they do not show them off. They go get what they need and get back to their life.

Why? because most women like that are far more secure than men. They know who they are, what they are and what they do and are content to keep it to themselves. Dirty little secrets are more fun when they are secrets.

Women are confident they know they've done it and can do it again and that is enough for them.

Men? They need to prove something all the time and mostly to themselves.

Point is, women mature and grow up, men remain grabby little frat boys. The weaker sadder sex by far, no matter what many may think.

Its odd having contempt for one's own gender, but I've learned to live with it.
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