More the expectations of (and about) female dominants (and male subs)

Stella_Omega

No Gentleman
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Jul 14, 2005
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I just found a wonderful article. it's kinda right in line with my current hobby horses that you all have been watching me ride lately...

it's difficult to choose any one quote from it, but here;

“What is it that makes dominant women uncomfortable with femdom? There are a lot of things. One of the biggest is the sexist attitude that is rampant in the BDSM community. It often seems like women have to remain ice queens, untarnished by actually having penile-vaginal intercourse with their male subs. However, if they want to they can become more male, and thus, more dominant by strapping on and becoming – duh duh duh – The Penetrator. This isn’t to say that there’s anything wrong with strapping on (I’m a fan myself), but a sex act does not a Dominant (or a submissive) make and we can’t just superimpose the male-female dichotomy onto Dominant-submissive and expect that to make anyone happy.”

The article talks about loving and adoring her male sub-- and saying so in public-- the devaluation of male subs, the devaluation of women in general (as women, as above).

go, read, and follow the links too, if you like.

http://delvingintodeviance.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/the-devaluation-of-male-submission/

Thoughts?
 
This is kind of a tangent, but here goes. :) I will be the first to say that perhaps my job colors my perception, by the way.

You know what made me uncomfortable with femdom? It--at least in the commonly accepted definition of the word--is exhausting. If you read almost any of the "My husband/boyfriend/lover wants to be dominated, what do I do?" advice written by (supposedly) dominant women, it's about controlling a guy's sexuality to get him to do what you want him to do.

"Tease him, and he'll be more obedient." No, dammit. He's not being obedient. He's doing what I want him to do in the hopes of manipulating me into getting him off. Motherfucker, if you can't control yourself, go to Sexaholics Anonymous. I'm not your mama.

I've flat stopped topping dudes because of this incredibly pervasive attitude. I can't be "on" all the time. I don't want to keep his dick hard 24/7 just to do what I want to do.

*Sigh* I'm too old for this shit.

Edit: I cut myself off. I realize that's what she's railing against to some extent. But I didn't read the rest of her blog, and I'm still suspicious, LOL.
 
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I hear you, Bun. :rose: I think that blog might have some good stuff for you.

The first woman I ever read who thought this way was Bitchy Jones and gaddammit, she went and deleted most of her blog, destroying what had been a real treasure for real women.

And then there's maymay, an excellent spokesman for submissive and bottom men. He seems like he's reaching the end of his rope, too.

When I was younger there wasn't a community. Now there's probably too much community.
 
I'll definitely check those out, Stella. Thanks! :rose:
 
Sounds interesting...will have to make sure I get back to read it when more time permits.:rose: For now I would have to agree there is an expected stereotypical persona from most, and to deviate from that cutout invites acusations of not being for real, or knowing what your role is supposed to entail. I love reading material by and about women who dare to thumb their nose at such expectations and walk their own walk. In part, it comes down to the common problem of people trying to win approval by fitting into the box others tell them they should in the way which meets with those others' expectations, not perhaps their own.

Catalina:cattail:
 
I may be wrong but there seems to be a difference between a sub and a pain slut who is just out to get themselves off. I enjoy the pain but I have searched for those who thrive on their own pleasures of inflicting pain and as a sub it is my dommes pleasure that is important
 
I may be wrong but there seems to be a difference between a sub and a pain slut who is just out to get themselves off. I enjoy the pain but I have searched for those who thrive on their own pleasures of inflicting pain and as a sub it is my dommes pleasure that is important
You are quite right, there is a difference, at least in whom you look for as a partner.

I'm not sure what you infer from that, though. Does being a service oriented masochist make you a better person, or more truely BDSM, than someone that approaches their pain-pleasures in a more controlling way?
 
doesn't make a better person just noting that I thought that is a difference for the dommes
in being the user and the used
 
doesn't make a better person just noting that I thought that is a difference for the dommes
in being the user and the used
Ah, I'm sorry I misunderstood that...

Yes, if a woman is truly dominant she may not be real happy about being used. And yes, more men are more comfortable with using someone to get their rocks off than otherwise. And submissive men-- who are actually submissive-- are hard to separate out of the crowd, I imagine...

And in our society it's hard for submissive men to find their partners, because the conventional ways are flipped around for them.
 
Excellent links! While the femdom issue does not pertain to me per se (and frankly I wasn't really aware), there's an underlying lesson about individuality and respect that applies to all. Thanks a lot for sharing!
 
S is a big comic book guy, and so he's had me go around to a number of different shops with him during my trip here. Yesterday we visited one that was rather big and old, and it occurred to me while browsing that I'd never be able to work in a comic book store or in the comic industry with any kind of permanence because of the rampant sexism lining every page shelf. It really made me incredibly sad, as comics are really important to me, and getting published is a goal of mine.

This blog post (I wish it'd been longer :p) just reminded me of the other end of the ugly stick; it isn't just women that get taken advantage of and treated like crap by the industry, but also the well-adjusted men that aren't all about the TnA and power fantasies that the likes of cape stories champion. It's all definitely a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Thanks for the link.
 
It often seems like women have to remain ice queens, untarnished by actually having penile-vaginal intercourse with their male subs.
I agree that it seems that way, but I don't think it should be that way. If she wants to get on top and ride, or even have him on top, she should do that. The only difference is that she stops when she is done. She can either get him off or not, but it's about her priorities. I have no problem whatsoever with a male sub servicing his female domme by fucking her. No reason at all the penetrator/penetratee roles have to switch.
 
Fuckin' A, Etoile. :rose:

But that Ice Queen notion has been around for a while. Pure Womanhood and a profound disinterest in sex and all that rot. Men are scum and worms who should have their penises controlled by women who don't want to get fucked. Madonnas, or else money-hungry world-weary boss ladies who will accept a man's money in return for letting him crawl at her feet.

There's a bit of a movement against that stereotype. Men who wish to submit aren't (don't have to be) worms or scum, women who dominate are neither Madonnas or evil bitches. (unless they actually want to be) For some folk, the currency is connection, not cash.

the blog I linked to is one of that movement, I think.
 
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Stereotypes usually develop from a grain of truth, though. The question is, whose truth is it? There are definitely male subs (I've met a few) who absolutely get off on the degradation and melt for their Ice Queens. If that's what they both want, it's a good partnership.

I've also met a femdom who thoroughly enjoys her own version of cock worship. She gives mind-bending blowjobs (or so it's appeared to me) involving bringing her sub to the edge, repeatedly, and may or may not allow him release when she feels she's done. They both love it. Some onlookers have been horrified that she would put that nasty thing in her mouth to begin with. But it's what they both enjoy.

It's hard to plow through the stereotypes and labels out there, but if you want a quality relationship with someone, you gotta put in the time and effort. Communication is where it all starts, every time. I don't think the gender part even matters, to be honest.
 
Stereotypes usually develop from a grain of truth, though. The question is, whose truth is it?
Indeed.

From what I've seen, it's the truth that belongs most of all to the produngeon industry. Which is not run for any other currency than cold, hard, and Madonna-friendly cash
There are definitely male subs (I've met a few) who absolutely get off on the degradation and melt for their Ice Queens. If that's what they both want, it's a good partnership.
Oh, of course. I am all for consensuality!

I've also met a femdom who thoroughly enjoys her own version of cock worship. She gives mind-bending blowjobs (or so it's appeared to me) involving bringing her sub to the edge, repeatedly, and may or may not allow him release when she feels she's done. They both love it. Some onlookers have been horrified that she would put that nasty thing in her mouth to begin with. But it's what they both enjoy.
yeah, right? Those onlookers have been brainwashed by the ice Queen stereotype, is my guess. Men are worms... yadda yadda. Those penises are disgusting, no self-respecting Femme Domme should ever admit to getting pleasure from simply adoring her sub's body and his soul, of objectifying him...

I've seen the tease scene too, I think it's incredible. I wish my own orgasms were that reliable, that I could be played with denial.

It's hard to plow through the stereotypes and labels out there, but if you want a quality relationship with someone, you gotta put in the time and effort. Communication is where it all starts, every time. I don't think the gender part even matters, to be honest.
This is truth :rose:
 
Such a fabulous thread. I've found I'm also feeling the expectations of the stereotype. As a result, I've backed away from the dominant side of my relationship with my now-husband and have taken on a more traditional role. I know he would prefer I treat him as I have in the past (like a useless little boy whose only job is to please me), but when we get home from work and all I can think about is dinner, chores, laundry, and work in the morning, it kind of takes the whole blush off our domme/sub relationship.
 
Bette, you married him? Congratulations!

I think about you actually, especially when I see blogs like the one above. I'm sorry to hear that the stereotype has beaten you down some. I hope you and he get your groove back on sometime in the near future...
 
Bette, you married him? Congratulations!

I think about you actually, especially when I see blogs like the one above. I'm sorry to hear that the stereotype has beaten you down some. I hope you and he get your groove back on sometime in the near future...

I was married before and it was a typical vanilla relationship. He had a tendency to treat me like an idiot and I let him. After the divorce I got a great job, went back to school full-time while working full-time and graduation Summa Cum Laude. I realize I did this as a way of thumbing my nose at him.

In the meantime, I was heavily exploring BDSM and found myself very submissive to a boyfriend. He, however, didn't know anything about BDSM, yet the way we were involved definitely had me submissive to him.

Exit him and enter years of singledom. I still thought of the BDSM lifestyle and toyed with various dating sites and other ways of finding someone with whom I could engage in this type of thing/life/sex/whatever. Nothing ever came of it.

When I met my now husband, it was like a dream come true. He was submissive and I found I loved to dominate him in so many ways, not just sexually.

Once the engagement and marriage happened, I've discovered I've fallen into the role of dutiful wife, the role I lived for 15 years as a "normie." I know he would rather I continue to dominate him, but I'm having a difficult time disengaging from the role of wife and becoming his Beautiful Miss, as he calls me. Instead, I'm ironing his shirts, making appointments for him and planning dinners. What the hell happened? :confused:
 
I was married before and it was a typical vanilla relationship. He had a tendency to treat me like an idiot and I let him. After the divorce I got a great job, went back to school full-time while working full-time and graduation Summa Cum Laude. I realize I did this as a way of thumbing my nose at him.

In the meantime, I was heavily exploring BDSM and found myself very submissive to a boyfriend. He, however, didn't know anything about BDSM, yet the way we were involved definitely had me submissive to him.

Exit him and enter years of singledom. I still thought of the BDSM lifestyle and toyed with various dating sites and other ways of finding someone with whom I could engage in this type of thing/life/sex/whatever. Nothing ever came of it.

When I met my now husband, it was like a dream come true. He was submissive and I found I loved to dominate him in so many ways, not just sexually.

Once the engagement and marriage happened, I've discovered I've fallen into the role of dutiful wife, the role I lived for 15 years as a "normie." I know he would rather I continue to dominate him, but I'm having a difficult time disengaging from the role of wife and becoming his Beautiful Miss, as he calls me. Instead, I'm ironing his shirts, making appointments for him and planning dinners. What the hell happened? :confused:
BAD HABITS DAMMIT!

A lifetime of conditioning snows us under once more. It is hard as hell to get out from under that stuff. And he can't be real happy about it either, he didn't marry a housewife.

recently I read an online article about renegotiating your relationship-- specifically about restoring or changing the sexual dynamics. If I find it again...
 
BAD HABITS DAMMIT!

A lifetime of conditioning snows us under once more. It is hard as hell to get out from under that stuff. And he can't be real happy about it either, he didn't marry a housewife.

recently I read an online article about renegotiating your relationship-- specifically about restoring or changing the sexual dynamics. If I find it again...

Would love to read it.

We pause in the pet department of any store often. He'd love to eat out of a dog bowl on the floor next to me. He's that good of a pet. Have I bought him a dog bowl yet? Noooo.... :rolleyes:
 
Maybe he needs some help in how to coax Mistress into playing...

My most favoritest piece of advice I've heard lately is to have a sub ask their dom permission regarding things they'd like the dom to take control over:

"Mistress, may I eat at your feet?" "Mistress, may I have an orgasm?"

"Mistress, may I slack off on the household chores?"
 
I like that. I'm going to talk to him tonight about this. Thank you for your advice and experiences on the matter.
 
Maybe he needs some help in how to coax Mistress into playing...

My most favoritest piece of advice I've heard lately is to have a sub ask their dom permission regarding things they'd like the dom to take control over:

"Mistress, may I eat at your feet?" "Mistress, may I have an orgasm?"

"Mistress, may I slack off on the household chores?"


The more I see you reference this piece of advice, the sounder I realise it is.

I think I'm going to do it myself. My only worry is, that sometimes I feel like I put too much pressure on the other half by needing too much. I need to just ask, and see what he says, I guess. And we can work from there.

/end offtopic :)
 
I saw this idiocy on CollarMe, and it made me think of this thread. :rolleyes:

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