How to - Friends with Benefits

[DirtySecrets11]

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[nfrrdscnnr1]

A long time ago I was told when two people engage in sex a bond is created. Maybe you are immune, maybe he wasn't maybe that rule is no longer valid. I do know that many questions posted on boards have to do with FWB deals gone awry for one reason or another.
Looking back on it, do you see any signs that you ignored that the guy was not going to be satisfied with FWB? My guess is that he was prone to dependence but what do I know?
So, apparently you did choose the wrong guy. It is a bit discouraging I suppose to ask if you are going to choose more wisely next time? Do you NEED the sex, as in going to be very unhappy without?

[amofiga]

Originally Posted by DirtySecrets11

I'm looking for a bit of insight. I've been wanting a simple friends with benefits arrangement for awhile now. After getting out of a long term and now with a schedule of work and school, I don't care for any further commitment at this point in my life. But I don't want to have too many notches on my bed post either. My first and last fwb was earlier this year and was a complete failure.

He was a great guy but started to become attached and I guess wanted to be the exception to my situation. Started nagging when I didn't call or pick up (I was usually in class at these times), wanted to do more date nights and less fucking. He accused me of playing with his heart and using him which made me feel horrible despite being upfront from the start. The last thing I wanted was anyone to feel disrespected and so I believed in being honest from start to end. Long story short I ended it but the end was still messy and emotionally guilt ridden.

So I guess I'm left wondering...

Did I simply choose the wrong guy? Should I be upfront first or later on after becoming friends? Is this even a successful arrangement to have or is it bound to fail?

You hooked up with the wrong guy. FWB relationships can be great but you have to be careful about people, men or women, who are more looking for a committed relationship. An FWB has to be a person that would not be insecure about you dating/having sex with someone else. That can be tough for a lot of people. They start off saying the want something "casual" but then start feeling "entitled" and possessive.

I've had what I like to consider FWB relationships but there's a big "oh damn" in there. I was married at the time, and so were they. However, it is the same sort of thing in some ways. You have to accept that what you have is not exclusive, it's not permanent, and you have no "rights of ownership". Those are the things that are necessary with a true FWB and I'd say for it to work, the "rules" have to be clear from the start and every so often, you may need to "review the rulebook" if there is a sense of too much emotional attachment and feelings of entitlement. Often a person will agree to a "no strings" relationship but then starts feeling like there should be some strings and maybe he/she can change the other person's mind. That's when it gets awkward.

Goog luck.

[1sickbastard]

Originally Posted by DirtySecrets11

I'm looking for a bit of insight. I've been wanting a simple friends with benefits arrangement for awhile now. After getting out of a long term and now with a schedule of work and school, I don't care for any further commitment at this point in my life. But I don't want to have too many notches on my bed post either. My first and last fwb was earlier this year and was a complete failure.

He was a great guy but started to become attached and I guess wanted to be the exception to my situation. Started nagging when I didn't call or pick up (I was usually in class at these times), wanted to do more date nights and less fucking. He accused me of playing with his heart and using him which made me feel horrible despite being upfront from the start. The last thing I wanted was anyone to feel disrespected and so I believed in being honest from start to end. Long story short I ended it but the end was still messy and emotionally guilt ridden.

So I guess I'm left wondering...

Did I simply choose the wrong guy? Should I be upfront first or later on after becoming friends? Is this even a successful arrangement to have or is it bound to fail?

It might be tougher for guys to do a FWB thing without getting emotionally attached that it is for gals (and yes, the statement is a broad generalization).
As amofiga pointed out, a FWB relationship, like any other, requires lots of communication to make it work.
Always be upfront about what you want out of a relationship (and how much you're willing to put into a relationship). It saves everyone so much time, effort and emotional distress.

[pfflyerhot]

I'm guessing you and your last FWB we're not specific about what you each wanted from the get go.
I don't do the casual very well myself, but if I did... I'd call it a sexual relationship, rather than friends with benefits. And, I say define, negotiate and settle upon some relationship "guidelines" in advance.
Define some terms, agree on concepts. Be honest and upfront about everything, from the get go... what you want, will give, expectations, if any... and, be respectful of what you both can offer each other... Yeah... Don't guess—that's a crap shoot for everyone involved. Strive for clarity, even if it feels awkward, or not nice, like, maybe you think whatever you need to say will hurt the other person's feelings. Be kind with your words, but say them. Ask questions. Maybe start out by defining what each of you think a FWB is... Does it have to be a pre-existing friend? Can you make friends with someone just to have a sexual relationship? Define what you think of as "casual"—stuff like that. Negotiate things, ongoingly. My inclination, were I in your shoes last time when the dude accused you of using him? I'd be inclined to say, "We're using each other, I thought... didn't we establish that at the start?" Talk about what happens if one of you developes deeper feelings—figure out a game plan for stuff like that, in advance.
That's my advice? Don't ever "guess"... about anything that you ever wonder about. If possible, ask, seek, discover... find out.
Personally, I'm emotional. I can have emotion w/o sex, but I can't have sex w/o emotion... I don't necessarily mean love, mind you, but emotions is a given with me.

Good luck.

[leatherleaf]

Originally Posted by 1sickbastard

It might be tougher for guys to do a FWB thing without getting emotionally attached that it is for gals (and yes, the statement is a broad generalization).
As amofiga pointed out, a FWB relationship, like any other, requires lots of communication to make it work.
Always be upfront about what you want out of a relationship (and how much you're willing to put into a relationship). It saves everyone so much time, effort and emotional distress.

Your statement is less of a broad generalization than you may think.

The bonding hormone - oxytocin - is released by guys upon orgasm. For women its released upon duress, stress, and conflict (IIRC).

When he blows get the F out of there as quickly as possible. Men are like baby chickens. After they hatch anybody can become mama (wait that might not be a good analogy).

J

[DirtySecrets11]

Originally Posted by nfrrdscnnr1

A long time ago I was told when two people engage in sex a bond is created. Maybe you are immune, maybe he wasn't maybe that rule is no longer valid. I do know that many questions posted on boards have to do with FWB deals gone awry for one reason or another.
Looking back on it, do you see any signs that you ignored that the guy was not going to be satisfied with FWB? My guess is that he was prone to dependence but what do I know?
So, apparently you did choose the wrong guy. It is a bit discouraging I suppose to ask if you are going to choose more wisely next time? Do you NEED the sex, as in going to be very unhappy without?

I did see the signs after we were in the FWB, he started to want to see me everyday and called every free moment he knew I had after becoming familiar with my schedule. He then started questioning my guy friends and was starting to talk more about relationships. When this happened, I reminded him what I was looking for and if it wasn't for him, then we shouldn't continue.

I want to choose more wisely but I'm still unsure what I'm looking for in a guy to be able to have a respectful yet casual understanding. Or is it just trial and error. I want to say I don't NEED sex but I want it. It doesn't make me unhappy without it but sex is a beautiful thing and it would make me happy to have it.

Originally Posted by amofiga

You hooked up with the wrong guy. FWB relationships can be great but you have to be careful about people, men or women, who are more looking for a committed relationship. An FWB has to be a person that would not be insecure about you dating/having sex with someone else. That can be tough for a lot of people. They start off saying the want something "casual" but then start feeling "entitled" and possessive.

I've had what I like to consider FWB relationships but there's a big "oh damn" in there. I was married at the time, and so were they. However, it is the same sort of thing in some ways. You have to accept that what you have is not exclusive, it's not permanent, and you have no "rights of ownership". Those are the things that are necessary with a true FWB and I'd say for it to work, the "rules" have to be clear from the start and every so often, you may need to "review the rulebook" if there is a sense of too much emotional attachment and feelings of entitlement. Often a person will agree to a "no strings" relationship but then starts feeling like there should be some strings and maybe he/she can change the other person's mind. That's when it gets awkward.

Goog luck.

Thank you for your insight and even better with your personal experience, it made me think more objectively.

[Rainshine]

Friends with benefits has never worked for me, one or the other always gets attached and one person always gets hurt. I would never advise it.

[DirtySecrets11]

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[RunningJib]

Originally Posted by DirtySecrets11

I'm looking for a bit of insight. I've been wanting a simple friends with benefits arrangement for awhile now. After getting out of a long term and now with a schedule of work and school, I don't care for any further commitment at this point in my life. But I don't want to have too many notches on my bed post either. My first and last fwb was earlier this year and was a complete failure.

He was a great guy but started to become attached and I guess wanted to be the exception to my situation. Started nagging when I didn't call or pick up (I was usually in class at these times), wanted to do more date nights and less fucking. He accused me of playing with his heart and using him which made me feel horrible despite being upfront from the start. The last thing I wanted was anyone to feel disrespected and so I believed in being honest from start to end. Long story short I ended it but the end was still messy and emotionally guilt ridden.

So I guess I'm left wondering...

Did I simply choose the wrong guy? Should I be upfront first or later on after becoming friends? Is this even a successful arrangement to have or is it bound to fail?

Most likely you choose the wrong guy

Perhaps you only discussed sex? Being honest and direct is not mean and while you may have discussed your want of a sexual partner, did you discuss boundaries? Don't assume that your 'friend' didn't think that there would be a friend component to your relationship. That is, make it clear that it is sex and sex only. While you two may meet for coffee / drink, that isn't a date, but rather a precursor for sex.

[Bramblethorn]

Originally Posted by amofiga

You hooked up with the wrong guy. FWB relationships can be great but you have to be careful about people, men or women, who are more looking for a committed relationship.

The tricky part with all this is that a lot of people simply don't know how a relationship is going to affect them until they go there. Some people are capable of a "just sex" relationship, some find it impossible to go on sleeping with somebody without forming an attachment, and there's only one way to know for sure which type you are.

[BuckyDuckman]

I think it's important to maintain a polite distance to the "benefits" part of the relationship. If you're seeing each other all the time and doing it all the time, then it's easy for the relationship to feel more like a relationship than friends whom hook-up from time to time.

I've had several successful FWB relationships along the way. Two of them were long distance friendships that made it easy to keep it classified as FWB. As I think about it, there was usually an insurmountable circumstance that required the relationship remaining FWB. Without an obstacle to prevent the relationship from advancing beyond FWB, I'm not sure how to keep the relationship in perspective.

[1sickbastard]

Originally Posted by DirtySecrets11

It's crazy but I always assumed it was a cake walk for guys. I assumed it was an ideal situation for any guy but it doesn't seem like the case. I've tried to stress communication and was brutally honest about what I was aiming for but I think what I don't have a handle on is how the other person reacts or feels.



I didn't want to compromise a pre-existing friendship, it's hard enough to keep good friends by your side over the years. Maybe that's where I had went wrong...I didn't know him WELL enough but he was all for the arrangement. It started off great to be honest, what we had was black and white, it's just it suddenly...shifted...more for him but I did take notice. It wasn't as clear anymore and I never really did think of the game plan if one of us had developed feelings.

Thank you for your advice, I think more or less I was killing myself wondering what happened in the fallout. I was also hoping to become a bit more wiser if and when I decide to set something like this up again.

Getting that handle for how another person reacts/feels is not easy, even if the communication is flowing freely, and that's assuming both parties are being honest not only with each other, but with themselves (which is probably more important), which is why I think FWB relationships are tougher for guys.

[1sickbastard]

Originally Posted by leatherleaf

Your statement is less of a broad generalization than you may think.

The bonding hormone - oxytocin - is released by guys upon orgasm. For women its released upon duress, stress, and conflict (IIRC).

When he blows get the F out of there as quickly as possible. Men are like baby chickens. After they hatch anybody can become mama (wait that might not be a good analogy).

J

This, I did not know.

But does this physiological tidbit imply that if a guy wants a girl to bond with him, he should make her uncomfortable, fight with her, then place her in a situation in which she has to make a lousy decision to avoid an even worse consequence?
That would be pretty fucked up...

[Paul_Chance]

As a guy, let me say that I think you simply picked the wrong guy. It happens all the time. Based on my experience with this type of relationship all you can do is be up front about what you want, draw some hard lines, then don't cross them, and don't be afraid to simply walk away.

Over the years I've found there is a certain type of personality that can do a casual FWB type relationship. Find someone who is stable (jobs and relationships), successful (success in one thing generally means success in others), and a non-drinker, non-drug user (or very light and casual user - the drama from alcohol and drugs will spill into your FWB relationship). I've found people who are divorced and comfortable with being single the best - they bring a "thanks, no thanks" attitude toward traditional relationships.

It's not so much about having emotional attachments - I think FWB relationship are an emotional attachment - but rather about having the right type of emotional attachment - casual, loving, and non-possessive.

Good luck!

[DirtySecrets11]

Originally Posted by Paul_Chance

It's not so much about having emotional attachments - I think FWB relationship are an emotional attachment - but rather about having the right type of emotional attachment - casual, loving, and non-possessive.

I love this. I didn't want to be completely cold or distant but it's hard to draw the line between too much and too distant. I started to question how I acted, was the hanging out playing video games before sex too much of a girlfriend thing? I do that with friends all the time but sex just complicated it. He was fine with being my drunk night booty call but then suddenly later on he was upset that he wasn't out with us that night. I wanted casual and I'm quite affectionate, maybe I was the wrong one by acting too casual that it spilled over into a girlfriend act.

[Porkwarrior]

All FWB relationships end. That doesn't make them a failure...I think that adds a certain kick to them that makes them extra spicy while things are going good. Bright flame burning hottest and all that.
HOW they end is what makes them a success or failure.

Keeping that upfront in your mind & decision making from the beginning in my experience keeps an almost subconcious level of distance between two people that bump uglies on Friday night drunken booty calls.


I've been pretty lucky, or just have an innate primal sense of smell, had some fun FWB relationships that turned into fond memories when we both moved on.
Ofcourse I've had a few that blew up in my face...but that goes for all human relationships, not just ones where you end up naked together.

[Paul_Chance]

Most of the time when I've seen an FWB relationship end badly it's because one of the partners wants to "take it to the next level". At that point, you need to kiss them on the cheek, wish them the best of luck, and move on. It will happen - people routinely lie for sex - both to themselves and others. Come from a place of open honesty and, though it can get bumpy, it generally works out. Through the relationship keep your intentions clear.

[DirtySecrets11]

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[VegasBornWolf]

Originally Posted by DirtySecrets11

I'm looking for a bit of insight. I've been wanting a simple friends with benefits arrangement for awhile now. After getting out of a long term and now with a schedule of work and school, I don't care for any further commitment at this point in my life. But I don't want to have too many notches on my bed post either. My first and last fwb was earlier this year and was a complete failure.

Here's my advice: Find a married man in an open relationship where his wife knows and approves of him having an extra lover. I have had the opportunity to be FWB with a few women during my marriage (which is still open and still amazing). I've always been upfront about my wife's place in my heart and home and every woman I've engaged in this situation with knows exactly where she stands. We enjoy our time together and usually, it ends when they find someone they want to be more emotionally involved with. Of course, this has it's own pitfalls, but I've had pretty amazing luck with this over the years.

Now..how can you find something like this? It's pretty rare, or so I've found, but there are a few places you can look. PM me if you want some more detailed information.

[DirtySecrets11]

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[leatherleaf]

Originally Posted by 1sickbastard

This, I did not know.

But does this physiological tidbit imply that if a guy wants a girl to bond with him, he should make her uncomfortable, fight with her, then place her in a situation in which she has to make a lousy decision to avoid an even worse consequence?
That would be pretty fucked up...

This is exactly right. This is why make-up sex works. The key is to make her just made enough but not TOO mad. LOL

J

[pfflyerhot]

Originally Posted by Paul_Chance

It's not so much about having emotional attachments - I think FWB relationship are an emotional attachment - but rather about having the right type of emotional attachment - casual, loving, and non-possessive.

You know... thank you for making this point. I think the nugget of what I was trying to say earlier about emotion and sex is right there.
Additional note: I'd wanna make sure we both agree as to what kind of emotional attachments are "right" for our situation. And/or, which ones are "wrong". Yeah. That's right. Define your terms.
Nice. Thanks.

[amofiga]

Originally Posted by Bramblethorn

The tricky part with all this is that a lot of people simply don't know how a relationship is going to affect them until they go there. Some people are capable of a "just sex" relationship, some find it impossible to go on sleeping with somebody without forming an attachment, and there's only one way to know for sure which type you are.

True, but as others have said, if you know the rules going in, it's not against the rules to revisit them now and again if one senses that the other is starting to get more emotionally involved than the other wants. For some people, sex is synonymous with "love". I've always believed that the two are not necessarily joined at the waist...or the crotch as the case may be. "Love" is an emotion. "Sex" is an activity. A person can play tennis or golf or go sailing with someone they love and it might make the "activity" even more enjoyable. However, it is indeed possible to enjoy golf or tennis or sailing with someone you just "like a lot", "like a little bit", or "hardly know at all".

People are wired differently and it's not always possible to check a person's wiring, kick the tires, or try it on for size before you buy. In my unfortunate case, I ended up with somebody that was just more than emotionally involved, but basically a stalker and obsessive. Humans dealing with humans is tough no matter how you slice it.

[Paul_Chance]

Originally Posted by pfflyerhot

You know... thank you for making this point. I think the nugget of what I was trying to say earlier about emotion and sex is right there.
Additional note: I'd wanna make sure we both agree as to what kind of emotional attachments are "right" for our situation. And/or, which ones are "wrong". Yeah. That's right. Define your terms.
Nice. Thanks.

I'll say right up front that mine insight is based entirely in my experience. Some one else might have significantly different experiences and draw their conclusions accordingly. If you want a long term FWB type relationship, one that lasts and is both sexually and emotionally satisfying, then this is what I see as the right type of emotional attachment.

First, you are in the relationship with no expectations beyond good company, good conversation, and good sex. you want to love each other as friends first, with the sexual/lustful part as frosting on the cupcake. IF you set that proper level of expectation, it will work much better.

Second, you have to love the person, though not in the possessive sense - you have to love them for who they are - not who you want to grow them/change them into. Possessiveness and jealously have no place in a FWB type relationship. I would actually suggest that, early on the relationship, you talk about your sexual adventures and misadventures with other people very openly. Nothing will put a test on an FWB relationship then getting together for lunch and discussing how well and truly you were fucked last night. As an FWB you are excited your friend had some hot sex - and not bothered that it wasn't with you. The whole issue of possessiveness and monogamy are what kill most FWB relations. FWB relations are not monogamous, at least not successful ones. IF you're monogamous, you're in a regular relationship, suck it up, stop trying to be cool and enjoy it.

Third, you have to let the other have their own life - friends, family, job, social, religious, the whole spectrum. Accept that, at best you will be on the periphery of their life and they on the periphery of yours - and you must not desire t move in emotionally and make their friends your friends (or vice versa). FWB is about freedom to think and act without control and it cuts both ways.

Finally, I'm going to circle back to the start - you must have a sincere, if non-traditional, love for them. Never treat them badly. Never take them for granted. Never assume because you're free Friday night they must be free. When you have a FWB you should always ask for that time together - and not be afraid to say no or to hear no. No following, no stalking, no drunk dialing. (LOL - okay, drunk dialing can be very amusing, so you might want to negotiate that one.)

FWB are strong, supportive, and loving FRIENDS first and foremost. The sexual part of the relationship is added pleasure - but each FWB must accept they are always a place-holder lover and can be replaced if their partner finds "The One" - and when they are replaced, they should be just as supportive in their friends future as they were in the present they shared.

Okay, that is about it. There are, of course, a hundred different types of relationships and the "detached" nature of love, the love without traditional expectations, that marks a good FWB relationship is not for everyone. Often, when people talk about an FWB relationship and focus on "they did this and they did that", I think they're missing the place where the work needs to be done. The question isn't "Can they" it's "Can I".