genderqueerness, sexual politics, BDSM status, female reticence, and shit like that

ooookay, I've just been challenged to put my money where my mouth is.

I just got a call from a Domme-- and y'all know I don't use that term lightly-- who asks me if I would bottom for a demo sometime in the coming months. It's a pleasuring demo. Not a pain demo. Vibrators and multiple orgsms, maybe even squirting. And a male is topping-- although he is completely submissive, she assures me. I've never met him, and I won't meet him until the night of the demo, he'd be flying in.

When we had originally talked about this one, I thought She would be topping-- I have no problem giving it up for her, or even for many women who might be strangers. To give my orgasmic energy to a man? That feels so... odd and off putting.

And that's really making me think, about my identity, my sexual preferences, my machismo-- I don't back away from shit. And this isn't even especially edgy, after all.

Well, that's my personal issues. I've been a queer activist too much maybe.

But as we were talking about this, Mistress L mentioned that none of "her Ladies" were willing to put their genitals on public display-- something I've done several times. She said that there were status issues for them, You know, Dommes aren't supposed to look vulnerable and stuff like that... and general group politics in our area that made it difficult for her to volunteer.

Needless to say, that immediately made me want to do the demo, because I'll be damned if I'll let status get in the way of fun!

But I'm throwing it out there, just to see what thoughts pop up

Stella_Omega said:

But as we were talking about this, Mistress L mentioned that none of her "Ladies" were willing to put their genitals on public display-- something I've done several times. She said that there were status issues for them, You know, Dommes aren't supposed to look vulnerable and stuff like that...

Click to expand...

I cannot really speak to your entire post, but I am curious about how anyone else feels seeing a Dominant in a vulnerable position.
Does it make them less of a Dominant in your eyes? That's a general question for anyone.
I used to think so, but my view has changed.

Stella_Omega said:

When we had originally talked about this one, I thought She would be topping-- I have no problem giving it up for her, or even for many women who might be strangers. To give my orgasmic energy to a man? That feels so... odd and off putting.

Click to expand...

I know you don't need my encouragement, but good for you for being willing to participate in something that is so different for you.

Bottoming to a submissive domme when you would rather not give your 'orgasmic energy to a man'? Sounds like an even exchange and will make it all the more interesting. I agree. Good for you that you're getting all defiant and saying to hell with status. Actually seems like the energy that all that 'conflict' will create is going to make for one heck of an exciting demo. *wonders where to buy a ticket*

All kidding aside. Why does that make you think about your identity and sexual preferences? You have a preference for sex? That's surely enough to try something new even though it's not kinky sex. It doesn't define you. You define you. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your dilemna.

I noticed the title was unusually vague for you, so i expect there is some turmoil going on. Good luck! Work through it! Document it here for general education

I am looking forward to hearing about it in the future!! Please update on more information about it.

rekane said:

I cannot really speak to your entire post, but I am curious about how anyone else feels seeing a Dominant in a vulnerable position.
Does it make them less of a Dominant in your eyes? That's a general question for anyone.
I used to think so, but my view has changed.

Click to expand...

That's my question as well

And also, my question to women especially-- we fight so damn much for parity, not to mention power. Even in the queer and alternative communities, I think-- women who have power or at least the honorifics, are not real comfortable at showing themselves in any lesser way....

So would it make you feel less dominant? or would you worry that other people would respect you less? Or is it simply a matter of good old fashioned prudery or privacy?

I know you don't need my encouragement, but good for you for being willing to participate in something that is so different for you.

Click to expand...

I have the courage of my convictions and I'm convinced that I would get lots of orgasms

SimplyOneChick said:

Why does that make you think about your identity and sexual preferences?

Click to expand...

well I have a little problem with gender dysphoria, and most of the time I totally feel a penis between my legs instead of the pussy that's actually there. So even though I don't mind being a sex exhibitionist, sometimes the attention bothers me-- because it's being paid to the wrong set of bits...

And I'm a butch dyke with bisexual tendencies, not hetero. Doing it to men is one thing-- doing it with men is something else entirely. (yes, I decided to do it-- now my problem is that it's something like eight weeks in the future which is a fucking long time to wait)

Stella_Omega said:

That's my question as well

And also, my question to women especially-- we fight so damn much for parity, not to mention power. Even in the queer and alternative communities, I think-- women who have power or at least the honorifics, are not real comfortable at showing themselves in any lesser way....

Click to expand...

I identify as a submissive, but I have played at being a switch, so my position was fluid. It was an interesting experience, and I didn't feel less dominant because someone had me as a submissive.
However, I can see how a female dominant would want to avoid any moment of vulnerability. We do struggle for power in our quotidien lives, and I think a female dominant would have to work even more so to be taken seriously. I could be wrong about that.

Seeing a male dominant vulnerable? I have had different reactions to different dominants. Those who label themselves dominant and simply give it lip service (wannabes) lose my submission entirely - I no longer take them seriously.
It makes them merely human.

But if a dominant, who takes his role to heart, becomes more vulnerable, I become more devoted.
It makes them wonderfully human.

So would it make you feel less dominant? or would you worry that other people would respect you less? Or is it simply a matter of good old fashioned prudery or privacy? I have the courage of my convictions and I'm convinced that I would get lots of orgasms

Click to expand...

(yes, I decided to do it-- now my problem is that it's something like eight weeks in the future which is a fucking long time to wait)

Click to expand...

Oh my...such build-up!

I tend to respect people who are open with their vulnerabilities as well as their strengths and who are able to laugh at themselves more, not less. Doesn´t matter if they are dominant or not.

Stella_Omega said:

When we had originally talked about this one, I thought She would be topping-- I have no problem giving it up for her, or even for many women who might be strangers. To give my orgasmic energy to a man? That feels so... odd and off putting.

And that's really making me think, about my identity, my sexual preferences, my machismo-- I don't back away from shit. And this isn't even especially edgy, after all.

Well, that's my personal issues. I've been a queer activist too much maybe.



But I'm throwing it out there, just to see what thoughts pop up

Click to expand...

i've never been on display in that sense before, but in a more general sense, i think that orgasmic, creative, raw energy is transferred out to the whole entire room. you could even view the submissive male top as a tool designed to give out all of your orgasmic energy to every gender in the room. maybe even accompanied by thickened air.

Stella, are you able to identify how much of your unease is about how others see you and how much of it is about how you alone see yourself?

Following Stella here; Introduction; Response to thread

Greetings to Stella Omega and all who responded to Stella's post.

I came here because of my respect and interest in Stella.

Respectfully of all, the last thing that I can do is to participate in another social network or forum.
My time is limited for the following reasons:
* I work to keep a roof over the heads of my slavegirl, my hubby-sub and myself.
* I diligently work at providing the nurturing required to be a responsible Dominant/Mistress.
* I do all the things that no one else can do to keep Los Angeles Dommes and subs (LADs) floating smoothly into the future.
* I give back to the universe for my blessings by serving as an Empath, 2nd Degree Reiki Practitioner and Certified Hypnotherapist
* I am writing a book on Female Empowerment

So much to reply to in this post...

First I want to say that the male is not "topping". He will be coming from a place of service. There will be no genital-to-genital or oral contact, so the gender of the presenter probably would be insignificant, at least from my perspective.

I was going to present this Demo, until the universe brought us someone more savvy than myself to present this topic, as most of my experience with this is with myself It is a VERY important topic as so many don't know how to really pleasure or be intensely pleasured because genetically female genitalia is so complicated, yet so powerful.

I want it clearly understood that I didn't switch things up midstream. [Stella can attest that she was notified of the change in presenter for this topic well in advance and given the option to opt out.] Please note that the presenter is a nationally noteworthy author and presenter, who is switch and understands that he is to be in total service mode for this Demo. Also, if Stella decides to be our Demo Model, she will meet and negotiate with the Presenter prior to the Demo. He will be flying in several days before the Demo and will be presenting at other Organizations and Venues. We have reserved this topic for LADs, as we are a group that supports Female empowerment for all Females, sub and Domme.

Dearest Stella, you said you would be giving your "orgasmic energy to a man". That is not what this Demo is about. It is about claiming our orgasmic energy. However, I understand that there is a certain level of vulnerability that comes with letting someone into what most women feel is such an intimate place, especially publicly. This addresses the point that you make about most Female Dominants not wanting to open up this vulnerability publicly. I think that, generally, boys are far less guarded with their "stuff". Perhaps that is why you are more open with your bits (no pun intended).

As far as the gender issue, I am sure that the Presenter would refer to your genitalia as you would want him to. That would be part of your negotiations with him. I must tell you that if you feel that your biological clit is your penis or your cock, that you would not be the only one. I believe that it is a compact and much more sensitive version of the same thing

Finally, Stella, I would like you to follow your instincts and your heart. If you have reservations communicate them and follow them. I think that you would be totally safe with this Demo and your emotions would be respected and protected, however if you feel that it would be something that would be a limit, then follow your gut. I am sure that the Karma of LADs will allow us to find another Demo Model for this Demo, should you have any reservations. In reading what you wrote in here, it appears that you are getting a bit excited about this, dear one, and who could blame you ... It should be a win/win for an exhibitionist who enjoys getting off Also, even though I identify as Female, squirting often feels like male ejaculation to me

Above all, I am quite fond of you Stella and want you to be comfy cozy and happy

Best Regards,
Mistress Lisa

Mistress Lisa! Guys, meet the Lady of my heart

Thank you for your response. I often brig things to the table in this forum, not only for myself but because so many other people have these or similar issues-- I have often found solutions or better ways of thinking about things from the convos in this group. It's such a diverse bunch, and

Thank you for what you're saying here, it's lovely and gives me even more reason to do the demo with you

Thank you sweet one and why does this place call me a "virgin"?

Thank you for your kind words, dear Stella.

I just looked at my post and being new to this group am I considered a virgin? I don't consider myself a virgin in the conventional sense

Stella_Omega said:

That's my question as well

And also, my question to women especially-- we fight so damn much for parity, not to mention power. Even in the queer and alternative communities, I think-- women who have power or at least the honorifics, are not real comfortable at showing themselves in any lesser way....

So would it make you feel less dominant? or would you worry that other people would respect you less? Or is it simply a matter of good old fashioned prudery or privacy? I have the courage of my convictions and I'm convinced that I would get lots of orgasms

well I have a little problem with gender dysphoria, and most of the time I totally feel a penis between my legs instead of the pussy that's actually there. So even though I don't mind being a sex exhibitionist, sometimes the attention bothers me-- because it's being paid to the wrong set of bits...

And I'm a butch dyke with bisexual tendencies, not hetero. Doing it to men is one thing-- doing it with men is something else entirely. (yes, I decided to do it-- now my problem is that it's something like eight weeks in the future which is a fucking long time to wait)

Click to expand...

I think I am developing a crush

IrisAlthea said:

I tend to respect people who are open with their vulnerabilities as well as their strengths and who are able to laugh at themselves more, not less. Doesn´t matter if they are dominant or not.

Click to expand...

neci_please_me said:

i've never been on display in that sense before, but in a more general sense, i think that orgasmic, creative, raw energy is transferred out to the whole entire room. you could even view the submissive male top as a tool designed to give out all of your orgasmic energy to every gender in the room. maybe even accompanied by thickened air.

Click to expand...

*pumps fist* YESSSS! I'll top EVERYBODY-- whilst I'm flat on my back!

Cattypuss said:

Stella, are you able to identify how much of your unease is about how others see you and how much of it is about how you alone see yourself?

Click to expand...

I am quite sure it's about my own vision of myself, that's a very good point.

Because-- going back to the first two comments that I just quoted-- I know how I've veiwed people who put themselves out there-- and I'm entertained and appreciative, and often awed by that kind of bravery and energy outlay. I've been around for other people's forced orgasm scenes, and wished I were there... so now I get the chance with a true maestro of the art, and I'm picking at nits. Yeah, this is my problem, the two halves of my gender fighting against each other. Also my own control freakness, now that I think of it.

Mistress Lisa said;

I understand that there is a certain level of vulnerability that comes with letting someone into what most women feel is such an intimate place, especially publicly. This addresses the point that you make about most Female Dominants not wanting to open up this vulnerability publicly. I think that, generally, boys are far less guarded with their "stuff". Perhaps that is why you are more open with your bits (no pun intended).

Click to expand...

And she's right-- on both counts. The only time I feel vulnerable showing my pussy is when I'm feeling more female, less manly.. when I'm rocking my boiness, I could care less. 'S funny.

As far as the gender issue, I am sure that the Presenter would refer to your genitalia as you would want him to. That would be part of your negotiations with him. I must tell you that if you feel that your biological clit is your penis or your cock, that you would not be the only one.

Click to expand...

And that's true too! I am NOT unique.... dammit.

But this guy may have met more f-bodied genderqueers than I have. I've let myself get isolated, IMO.

Ms_Lisa said:

...
I just looked at my post and being new to this group am I considered a virgin? I don't consider myself a virgin in the conventional sense

Click to expand...

I can't resist this one...
I'd have to say you'd be the most unconventional virgin ever!

rekane said:

I cannot really speak to your entire post, but I am curious about how anyone else feels seeing a Dominant in a vulnerable position.
Does it make them less of a Dominant in your eyes? That's a general question for anyone.
I used to think so, but my view has changed.

Click to expand...

Absolutely not.

I don't see them as infalliable towers of strength. Seeing them in vulnerable positions makes my nurturing instincts kick into higher gear, so I take care of them, until they're back to their 'usual' self.

Lizzie_Borden said:

Absolutely not.

I don't see them as infalliable towers of strength. Seeing them in vulnerable positions makes my nurturing instincts kick into higher gear, so I take care of them, until they're back to their 'usual' self.

Click to expand...

Good point!
It is true that seeing him sort of laid bare does bring out the nurturer in me, but I haven't really acknowledged that.
I think I tend to gloss over the fact that I take care of my D as much as he takes care of me, and I really do try to take care of every need I can.

I think, perhaps, that I place such an importance on what I gain from him that I overlook how I serve him. Not that my submission means less, it's just that it is easier for me to see how he helps me.

Re: "infalliable towers of strength"

Let me qualify that everything I say in this post is my personal opinion and I speak only from my own perspective.

We are all human. To pretend to not to have any vulnerability is weakness in character, or worse, a psychological disorder. Any Dominant, Mistress or Master who is genuine and strong will not feel the need to conform to a "fantasy" stereotype.

There are times when a submissive or slave will need to be emotionally supportive of their Dominant/Owner. The quality of the submissive/slave is evident by the way they deal with a Dominant when they are feeling weary/vulnerable/frail. How would a submissive/slave respond?
Are they turned off?
Do they regard this as an opportunity to take advantage of them?
Are they lost and confused?
Do they show their value by stepping up to the plate and feel honored that their Dominant/Mistress/Master trusts them enough to expose their innermost feelings?

In short, a strong Dominant/Master/Mistress leads with responsible, nurturing authority, walking with honor and integrity. They lead by example and cultivate the well being of those in their service. They appreciate dedication, devotion and service.

In many ways submissives and slaves are way more courageous than the Dominant is, as they expose their vulnerability to those that they serve more easily than most of us do.

Personally, I am pretty open and always speak from my heart with honesty. As one of the leaders and founder of a long standing, nationally recognized groups, I have to sometimes be guarded in some ways. For example, currently, I am having a hard time holding back my tendency to use a "flowery" vocabulary Although, I am a slave to LADs and I expose myself in many areas, I save some parts of me for mine alone.

I celebrate my sensitivity and regard it as one of my strengths. Society puts so many unreasonable and outrageous demands on us, at times. It is courageous to live in your personal authenticity. Courage and strength are not restricted to Dominants, Mistresses and Masters. Mine are very strong, wise and honorable, which makes their submission to me all the more valuable

rekane said:

Good point!
It is true that seeing him sort of laid bare does bring out the nurturer in me, but I haven't really acknowledged that.
I think I tend to gloss over the fact that I take care of my D as much as he takes care of me, and I really do try to take care of every need I can.

I think, perhaps, that I place such an importance on what I gain from him that I overlook how I serve him. Not that my submission means less, it's just that it is easier for me to see how he helps me.

Click to expand...

I'm very simliar, I tend to focus on how I'm growing and changing, and I respond to him intuitively, so it's actually hard for me to put into words how I serve him. I just *do*.

But being able to look after him is something I get from him as well, so it's always at the forefront of my mind. It makes me happiest, even if I do jokingly tell him off for changing preferences on something. Heh.

Ms_Lisa said:

Thank you for your kind words, dear Stella.

I just looked at my post and being new to this group am I considered a virgin? I don't consider myself a virgin in the conventional sense

Click to expand...

I just wanted to say that I am enjoying your posts here. So much insight and knowledge shared - thank you!

Lit is funny.
You are a "virgin" and I am a "guru". Yeah, it doesn't really apply to me.

Some men are easy about showing their inner selves. They can feel pretty sure that their women will nurture them for it. (I'm going with the hetero dynamic here)

What about women? Female tops, female Dominants? How can they be sure that there will still be respect from their men if they show vulnerability?

People in the scene can -- some of them, not all-- be so fixated. i remember someone that I was playing with, meeting her only at night and in full gear-- coming to my house during the day, knowing she was going to meet my family. She boggled at first sight because I was wearing sneakers instead of my Chippewa boots LOL and we had to have a quick moment in private to restore her faith in her Daddy...

And damn, that faith had to be reinforced any time I acted like a normal person. It got to be too tiresome for me. But at the same time, she never had a problem with performing the kind of physical topping I wanted...

Stella_Omega said:

Some men are easy about showing their inner selves. They can feel pretty sure that their women will nurture them for it. (I'm going with the hetero dynamic here)

What about women? Female tops, female Dominants? How can they be sure that there will still be respect from their men if they show vulnerability?

People in the scene can -- some of them, not all-- be so fixated. i remember someone that I was playing with, meeting her only at night and in full gear-- coming to my house during the day, knowing she was going to meet my family. She boggled at first sight because I was wearing sneakers instead of my Chippewa boots LOL and we had to have a quick moment in private to restore her faith in her Daddy...

And damn, that faith had to be reinforced any time I acted like a normal person. It got to be too tiresome for me. But at the same time, she never had a problem with performing the kind of physical topping I wanted...

Click to expand...

Urgh, I can understand how that got to be tiresome. It'd make you feel unappreciated as a whole person. And that's a shitty feeling. If I were in that position, I'd soon be questioning what the other person wanted me for. For me, or for that part of me?

Yuck.

Oh I knew exactly which parts of me she wanted LOL!

And honestly, it was the only part of me that I wanted to offer her. She was way too untrustworthy for anything more, and I DO have a family.

You got me.

I can't fathom offering my orgasmic energy, bits probed and uncovered, to a room full of people, not for love money or the betterment of the sexually educated sex positive universe. The person poking me with a vibe is the least of my hang ups in this context. I don't care if it's the hottest woman on earth, the least appealing man on earth, or me myself.

I think doms worry too much...

If we turn the story around and a sub is asked to top, or has to take on a leadership role at work, or decides to wear something that looks mean and tough one day... I don't think the sub would be thinking "oh my god, will I look not submissive enough to my dom?"

Not criticizing, just amused by this asymmetry.