Female subs as "the other woman"

I get the impression that quite a few of the female subs on this board are "the other woman" for a man. So many posts are along the lines of "why hasn't he called?", or "nearly a week and no contact", or "those stolen moments were so precious" etc.

I know there are several people here of both sexes who have significant relationships outside their (for want of a better word) primary relationships.

But I'm thinking more of a situation where the female sub's ONLY relationship is with an attached man. Where he is her only significant other, but she is his secondary significant other.

And it's got me wondering. Does a submissive nature in a woman make it easier to tolerate that dynamic? Can the dynamic even be seen as part and parcel of the submissive's "service" to the man? Does the suffering, the always coming second, key into something that the submissive craves or thinks she deserves, or thinks is appropriate to her submission?

It's something that has been playing around the edges of my brain for a while, every time I read a post which makes it obvious that a female sub really suffers from feelings of loneliness, doubt etc when he's busy with his primary relationship.

I was the other woman for a few months a couple of years ago. I fought against it tooth and nail, once I fell in love with him, and wasn't happy until I became his only relationship. I think I would have left him before long if he hadn't left his wife for me.

And I keep wondering if that's because I'm a bedroom-only sub (or "bottom", if you must). So while I crave a power mismatch in the bedroom, I really don't feel I need to tolerate it outside the bedroom.

Please don't flame me. This is not intended to rile anyone. I'm just genuinely curious.

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CookingDom said:

I can imagine there is an element of the sub naturally being more comfortable with being the 'other woman' as it helps her maintain the distance when she needs it, which may in turn help when starting out.

I think the main part is the fact that this is starting out online, so distance is normally an object. It's very rare that 2 people meet on here and are in the same town, let alone country, or at least close enough for something physical to happen for a while.

Also, I imagine a lot of people come here simply to get off and don't really think of anything beyond that. I've made some great friends here, who were simply here to browse the boards, read the stories, post etc but have ended up with a deeper friendship and the chance to explore things they didn't imagine they would. Sometimes it's people with partners, sometimes single. I think people like the site as it becomes something you can hide behind and feel safe with.

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To be honest I wasn't thinking particularly of people who met on here or indeed on any website, but I see your points in the context you are thinking of.

It's not just subs who are the 'other woman', some subs are partnered, or just looking for something fun or a distraction away from their normal life and so the Dom becomes the 'other one'.

S

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Yep - as I acknowledged in my initial post.

Thanks.

Everyone is an individual. For me it just would not work. I am not high maintanence, but I do like having the intimacy and time together as a unit which is ony achieved by being the primary partner, and truth be told, only partner. LOL, as he says, with me as his slave he wouldn't have time or energy for anyone else. I'm fine with those who can do it, but I know myself well enough now to know where it would lead for me and it is not a good place nor one with a future.

Catalina

In my sub relationships I have always been "the other woman" and since having never had a full time dom, I do believe I prefer it that way. I'm not one that is so much hung up on when/if my dom calls because my experiences have been a little more relaxed in nature somewhat. If he contacts me and wants to play and I can work out a meeting ....fine...if not....its ok, we try to meet when we can. I have had an experience where the "honeymoom" period was wonderful with a new dom, meeting once a week, sometimes more and then when it would extend to longer times between meetings I was disappointed but I got over it.

In the interest of not wanting to get too attached to anyone at this point in my life it reallly seems to work best for me and my submissive needs.

You know, this is interesting because I have been "the other woman" several times, some knowingly some unknowingly. In one of these relationships I was a top, a service top, but still.

In the ones where I was unknowingly the other, when I found out I terminated the relationship. I felt I deserved better than to be some one's secret, and I didn't appreciate being lied to.

But there have been a couple where I entered in knowing I was a second. In one of them I was treated like a second, lesser relationship, and in the other he would describe me as "another woman" as opposed to "the other woman" but I was still second to his wife.

In the first case, his primary wanted nothing to do with me, so I could only see him when she was at work, I could only speak to him when she wasn't around, and so on. I was to not exist. And the funny thing about it is that I felt like I shouldn't exist. I felt like he had every right to treat me this way, even though I had been in satisfying relationships that didn't work this way. There was just something in the air that told me it was okay for him to treat me like a toy he could pick up and put down when ever he pleased. It was very damaging to myself in many ways.

In the second case, his primary and I interacted and were even friendly, but I was still second. Again, I was okay with this, and even felt like I deserved it on some level, not because I'm submissive in this case (which was for the prior) but because she came first. And this one was different because I didn't have to hide, I could have my interactions with him at any point in the day, not just when she wouldn't see. But there was an understanding of what I was entitled to, and when I didn't get that, and was neglected on a regular basis, I renegotiate the relationship.

In both cases what I was to expect from the relationship was discussed at the beginning. In the first, because I was convinced that as a submissive I didn't deserve better, I continued a damaging relationship longer than I should have. In the second, when I didn't receive what was negotiated, I renegotiate because I knew I deserved better, submissive or not.

I think it all comes down to the man I was with. Not that the man involved it to blame for my attitude, but that my attitude adjusted to mirror the man involved. And I think that has more to do with other aspects of my personality and not solely because I'm submissive.

So, yes and no?

Third ..

I'm in this situation now, and this is not the first time. If I am not dating someone - i get what I call playmates - long term sex friends - some vanilla - most not.

I only have one sub friend, but all of my friends at one time or another were an "other woman".

My first Dom eventually released me after a almost 18 months together because he was getting married. I was a secret, I was young, and like someone else said - i thought it was the best I could do.


Currently I am third - My current Dom playmate is married. He has a primary slave who is also married (to someone else). Then there is me.
I am looking for more. He knows and is ok with it. I knew upfront what I was getting into - actually when we first met he had another sub at the time as well.

I am a little bit of a masochist. I know my place in his life. I do struggle with being lonely - but it was worse before Sir. Except for vacations and things I usually talk to him a couple days a week. Not weekends and not usually evenings right now because that is his family time. We try to meet 2-3 times a month for a few hrs. Even with those limitations he is good for me, even part time submission is something that for me keeps some of my issues in check.

Most days i think I deserve more. But I also know that only rarely do people get what they deserve.

As for me, I would prefer to have a female sub for a partner, which is often why I tend to go for robots.

This is really interesting Cattypuss.

Also if what you're thinking is true there are a whole bunch of dominant-type men out there in unsatisfying primary relationships. I wonder what that might say.

no. absolutely no way can I be 'the other woman'. If I'm not the woman, then fuck it.

Kybele said:

no. absolutely no way can I be 'the other woman'. If I'm not the woman, then fuck it.

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Kybele, are you a sub outside the bedroom, or only inside?

Cattypuss said:

Kybele, are you a sub outside the bedroom, or only inside?

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professionally I am not subservient or submissive. domestically and sexually I'm submissive.

evesdream said:

This is really interesting Cattypuss.

Also if what you're thinking is true there are a whole bunch of dominant-type men out there in unsatisfying primary relationships. I wonder what that might say.

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Maybe it's just catch as catch can, in the BDSM world.

evesdream said:

Also if what you're thinking is true there are a whole bunch of dominant-type men out there in unsatisfying primary relationships. I wonder what that might say.

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This might be true, but not necessarily so, for those who consider themselves polyamorous.

In my first relationship after I left my husband, I was the other woman. It was a vanilla relationship and a long distance one, although we did meet several times. I was emotionally vulnerable and very naive, I believed him when he said we'd be together "one day".

"One day"never came, and after almost a year of frustration, tears and some of the most wonderful feelings I'd ever experienced up to that time, it ended. I don't believe I could do it again, most of the time was spent waiting for him to come online, waiting for us to be able to meet, waiting for phone calls that sometimes never happened because "she" was home unexpectedly. However this relationship indirectly helped Sir and I develop our own relationship, because as friends here on another thread in the Playground He heard all about my troubles and helped me through the inevitable breakup

I've also been the other woman as a "friend with benefits" with a guy I've known since we were kids at primary school He made a pass at me one night when we were at the local club/pub when the other relationship was on the downward slide. Two lonely sexually frustrated people went back to my place and had sex together.....he used to visit me every 2-3 weeks when he could get away, for a few hours. He is bi, but in the closet. I am bi but was only out to a couple of female friends at the time. He also liked to dress up in women's lingerie under his clothes....lol the first time he came out of the bathroom in just a black teddy was surreal but I loved it (He didn't warn me before hand!)

There was no romantic relationship, just friends who enjoyed each other's company and incidentally enjoyed physical intimacy. I knew his wife, but strangely felt no guilt about having sex with her husband She is very straight in the bedroom and knew nothing about his bisexuality or his predilection for women's underwear. I was someone he could be open and be himself with.

It lasted about 6 months and ended after I came back from my first visit to Sir - I am a one man woman and it didn't seem right to continue the relationship even though I had Sir's permission.

evesdream said:

Maybe it's just catch as catch can, in the BDSM world.

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I sent you a PM.

Cattypuss-

I don't think it's just submissive women that are "okay" with being "the secondary relationship". I think a lot of people in general, vanilla and kinked, are in relationships that are not just-two-people-monogamously-together. I see this board and others like it in general as a sort of pie wedge or...maybe like a core sample that scientists take of ice to trace weather patterns a million bajillion years ago (nerd!). It's a sampling of humanity, all of it represented here in some small way. So because we're a sampling of humanity, we're going to see a lot of people in "atypical" relationships.

Cattypuss said:

I get the impression that quite a few of the female subs on this board are "the other woman" for a man. So many posts are along the lines of "why hasn't he called?", or "nearly a week and no contact", or "those stolen moments were so precious" etc.

I know there are several people here of both sexes who have significant relationships outside their (for want of a better word) primary relationships.

But I'm thinking more of a situation where the female sub's ONLY relationship is with an attached man. Where he is her only significant other, but she is his secondary significant other.

And it's got me wondering. Does a submissive nature in a woman make it easier to tolerate that dynamic? Can the dynamic even be seen as part and parcel of the submissive's "service" to the man? Does the suffering, the always coming second, key into something that the submissive craves or thinks she deserves, or thinks is appropriate to her submission?

It's something that has been playing around the edges of my brain for a while, every time I read a post which makes it obvious that a female sub really suffers from feelings of loneliness, doubt etc when he's busy with his primary relationship.

I was the other woman for a few months a couple of years ago. I fought against it tooth and nail, once I fell in love with him, and wasn't happy until I became his only relationship. I think I would have left him before long if he hadn't left his wife for me.

And I keep wondering if that's because I'm a bedroom-only sub (or "bottom", if you must). So while I crave a power mismatch in the bedroom, I really don't feel I need to tolerate it outside the bedroom.

Please don't flame me. This is not intended to rile anyone. I'm just genuinely curious.

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You know my story

And I know I sook about missing him, but I would anyways. He's away for weeks at a time, and would be regardless of where he lived when he was home.

The ones I read about though, that are in that situation, particularly online only, make me think of those subs that seem to devalue themselves, that think they deserve lesser because they are lesser. And they cling to the little bits they do get.

It's just the feeling I get.

Isn't it telling that the phrase "the other woman" is so easily at hand? Maybe it isn't about submissiveness.

... And then there are "back door men" so maybe it all works out about equal...

No, being submissive does not make it any easier, regardless of whether the other-other woman knows about it or not. In fact, it makes it a whole hell of a lot harder because people are so quick to justify their behavior with "Well, I'm the one in charge here."

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

BiBunny said:

No, being submissive does not make it any easier, regardless of whether the other-other woman knows about it or not. In fact, it makes it a whole hell of a lot harder because people are so quick to justify their behavior with "Well, I'm the one in charge here."

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

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I don't think the question is so much is it easier, but does being submissive make us more prone to it. Though I get your message, and can relate on some levels.

It is an interesting point. Worth exploring when I haven't been drinking.

I think that for most, coming to understand or accept their submissive natures requires a learning process. There are only a few people who have shared extensively on Lit (IMHO) that I've seen say: "I knew from day one I was [insert label] and that's how I've always been." Yet, even those who knew and accepted themselves early on still go through a learning process about relationships in general. Through that learning process, there will be times when a person makes choices they later see as the wrong choice for themselves. Or even some come to learn that being the "other woman" actually works well for them. Every experience, good or bad, will teach us things.

While I'm only now defining my own rules for my life in this regard, I can say for me personally it's been a priority to not be the "other woman." I so fear ever damaging someone else's primary relationship that I go to the extent of never expecting my friends to keep my secrets from their SOs because when people have SOs, I don't encourage secrets between them. For these reasons, and applying this only to my own life, it's hard to consider being that "other woman."

I think the mere fact one is submissive does not mean you will purposefully or automatically seek out this "other woman" position. It's more a matter of how we sort ourselves out, which is always done differently. While I haven't seen rabid biting in this thread, I hope no one is being judgmental when being the "other woman" actually works for someone. I know that every relationship differs and every connection made between people will have a different meaning than what I interpret looking from the outside. I hope that those connections are being made with thoughtful consideration, however, to individual well-being. That's the part that worries me: people engaging in behavior that ultimately harms them if it really isn't the right choice for them. But hey...you don't get to that understanding without experiencing it. So who the hell, really, am I to talk?

the captians wench said:

I don't think the question is so much is it easier, but does being submissive make us more prone to it. Though I get your message, and can relate on some levels.

It is an interesting point. Worth exploring when I haven't been drinking.

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I probably shouldn't say much on this subject, anyhow. Even thinking about it is enough to induce major rage at this point, LOL.

Have fun drinking, Wenchie!

While I agree with the points of the tolerance not just being a characteristic of submissives, at the same time, most of the relationships I've been involved with have been started because my PYL needed to top someone but couldn't convince their wife/partner/girlfriend to partake in bdsm activities. There's definitely something about being able to be a good enough bottom for someone, knowing you can give your Dom what the primary relationship can't give him, that makes the "he didn't call" or "he's inattentive" part somewhat more easily excused.

Sometimes, anyway.

Well, with that said, judge away

This was an interesting thread and most certainly gave food for thought. I've been the other woman, but not as a sub. Part of it was the security of knowing that the relationship will never be serious; part of it was the romance in the unattainable; part of it was that I didn't think I deserved anything better. I've only very recently come to terms with my own submissiveness, though I guess it's still an ongoing process. I think there have been a lot of chicken and egg problems when trying to understand what makes me a submissive. I've also been confusing submissiveness with being weak or undeserving. Also, if I can't find a person strong enough to dominate me, I put myself down to compensate. That's not very good.

The interesting thing is that the more I come to terms with my submissiveness and accept it as part of my personality, the stronger I get and feel "more deserving". I wouldn't go into a destructive relationship anymore (which is what being the other woman was for me). Or at least I really try not to

I've never been the other woman, but I've been the primary relationship. I'm submissive and she was submissive, and we all seemed to be very much on the same page on what was expected from each in the relationship(s).

There were feelings involved between them and I was more than ok with it and actually encouraged it. I had experienced a situation before, where the other woman was there just for fun and sex and I didn't like it at all, but to my surprise I was fine when it became clear that there's more than just casual sex (~smile~) going on.

I did meet the woman a couple of times, also just the two of us alone. We got along really well, but soon after we had met, she said she couldn't handle the situation anymore. Her explanation to me was that she couldn't bear the thought of taking him away from me. Her explanation to him was that she couldn't bear the thought of him coming back to me.

Both of the explanations were a bit silly, because he and I were in a LDR at the time, so she wasn't taking away my time with him and he didn't come back home to me most of the time. She, then again, lived in the same city with him, so actually she spent a lot more time together with him than I could.

I'm pretty sure us meeting was the trigger that made her want to leave the relationship. I guess it made me and my presence in his life all the more clear to her and she couldn't take it anymore. I still don't know if it was guilt or jealousy, maybe a bit of both or something completely different, thou.

Then again, I've been in a relationship before, where I didn't feel very entitled to anything at all and all the attention I got was a plus, as there was no set level of expectations from my part. I can easily imagine, if that is the type of relationship that someone has with a married man, it might be easier to deal with the bad feelings. Maybe.