BDSM and Religion ?

I have a topic I would like to see discussed. As a Dominant Male with a Submissive female, we have our life details worked out for our situation. I believe in Christian values and do not place lines between the two parts of my life. I call my submissive, wife. She calls me Husband or Sir~. These titles carry over into our BDSM life style as well as our Church Life. It IS who we are. I don’t share details of my sexuality with the church, because it is not a proper forum for that kind of discussion. I have always required certain things of my wife such as dress. These requirements are often related in one way or another to both areas of our lives.

I wonder if any of you out there have similar beliefs or situations. I do not believe that “ other than missionary position” sex is a sin. I don’t think any one should think or do this or that. I leave that to them and their beliefs.

I don’t want to start a brew-ha-ha thread.

I am just interested to see if any of you have had any experiences relevant. I would especially be interested if it were other than Christianity based religions.

Peace Be With You

Jax_Teller said:

I have a topic I would like to see discussed. As a Dominant Male with a Submissive female, we have our life details worked out for our situation. I believe in Christian values and do not place lines between the two parts of my life. I call my submissive, wife. She calls me Husband or Sir~. These titles carry over into our BDSM life style as well as our Church Life. It IS who we are. I don’t share details of my sexuality with the church, because it is not a proper forum for that kind of discussion. I have always required certain things of my wife such as dress. These requirements are often related in one way or another to both areas of our lives.

I wonder if any of you out there have similar beliefs or situations. I do not believe that “ other than missionary position” sex is a sin. I don’t think any one should think or do this or that. I leave that to them and their beliefs.

I don’t want to start a brew-ha-ha thread.

I am just interested to see if any of you have had any experiences relevant. I would especially be interested if it were other than Christianity based religions.

Peace Be With You

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Well personally I pretty much follow the teachings of Anton Levay which of course speaks of indulgence over abstinence and sexual freedom. However that does not necessarily mean all out orgies and out of control behavior it just means That I am free to choose what Sex life works for me. I am married and I choose to express my sexual freedom by being monogamous. My wife and I enjoy a very lively sex life that involves weekly role plays and some S&M D/S sex although we do not keep it up as an everyday way of life.

Of course my situation is different from my end but my wife is Catholic. She believes that our sex life is our business and i agree. I think the only concern the church should have about your sex life is that is that you are only with your wife. Adultery is a sin in most churches as long as you are with your wife then as Crowley says "do as thou wilt" the days of missionary boring sex is over that shit is so archaic it is not funny.
Your wife is your partner to share and enjoy all of life's experiences. A wife and husband should enjoy each other completely and with no rules other than the ones you impose yourself. Your wife (and to her you) should be an object of lust as well as love. Whatever you practice as long as it is within the confines of your marriage and of course is consensual is perfectly acceptable. If you and your wife enjoy the D/S lifestyle and you are still in love then you are doubly blessed to be happy in all aspects of your life and any member of the clergy that would disagree should step down. Your sex life should be a Don't ask don't tell policy. These are just my opinions. In closing i would like to add. Good for you!

This Christian girl once claimed my attempts to convince her to see me before god sounded exactly like lucifers seductions.

Jax_Teller said:

I do not believe that “ other than missionary position” sex is a sin.

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How do you just glance over that aspect, sex is like half of what Christianity is about. And doesn't anal get you turned into salt or something.

YourCaptor said:

How do you just glance over that aspect, sex is like half of what Christianity is about. And doesn't anal get you turned into salt or something.

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Christianity is very much a "pick your own adventure" religion anymore.

This is a very interesting topic. I have been talking a bit about this with someone in PM’s, and can share a bit of our thoughts here.

I think as religious people we have to consider a (lord forgive me lol) ‘kinky’ God.

Nuggets from the bible suggesting such (for those interested):
*Solomons Song, the kinkiest book of old age. The entire book is devoted to intimate poetic descriptions of making love and indulging in each other’s bodies. It's so ‘saucy’ that it is forbidden for young Jewish men to read the book until they are 30 years old. It’s in this book we find indications of the man drinking of the woman’s nectar between her legs, so I think we can rule out missionary position right there
*David. Isn’t it the story of David where it says something about; once they were married he took his wife into the bedroom and “did everything that lovers do” and God watched them, smiling, and withdrew as he closed the curtains to the room?
*Ruth; she gets Boas drunk, sneaks up under his blanket by the fire and seduces him, and after this they get married. And it indicates that God approves of her cleverness.

So… is there boundaries to this? You can be romantic, but can you be dominant? I think if God has given us kinks, then I see no indications that we cannot be playful and express ourselves within our marriage.
Perhaps we restrict God sometimes. I wouldn’t in any way suggest understanding all of this, but I do wonder at times if we think God would be displeased with us for having our fetishes, when he’d actually cheer us on. Where in the bible does it say that God disapproves of outrageous sexual activity, as long as it’s with your spouse?

I think when I do get a partner I’ll be really open about what I need as a switch / mostly submissive, and refuse to feel like I’ve sinned lest I find some solid scripture on it. Know what I mean?
Would like some feedback from other religious people. Or of course you non-religious folks are welcome too if you might have some insights, but it can be hard to put a finger on lest you’ve lived the religious life, and known that lifestyle. (just like with bdsm, and outsiders trying to understand what it’s like for us who live it daily).

PS: Not looking to open up a debate on scripture or religious vs. non-religious. Just sharing my thoughts, maybe it'll help someone

I'm Christian and very much into BDSM. I haven't found a problem between the two, though I do keep my two lives seperate. Though, I've found that a lot of BDSM overlaps into Christianity. A BDSM is actually the perfect marriage in the bible taken litterally.

Wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, for the husband is head of the wife as also Christ is head of the church. He is the Savior of the body. Now as the church submits to Christ, so wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as also Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her, to make her holy, cleansing her in the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)

In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. (Hebrews 5:7)

When Hagar ran away from Sarah, she was sent back by a divine messenger: Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, "You must go back to your mistress and submit to her mistreatment." (Genesis 16:9)

As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, I beat my body and bring it into submission, for fear that by any means, that after I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected. (1 Corinthians 9:27) Many SM devices, such as floggers, whips, clamps, chastity belts, and the cat o'nine tails, bear close resemblance to used a wide array of devices early Christian penitents to whip their bodies and mortify their flesh. They did this to submit their bodies to Christ, to emulate his suffering on the Cross, and purify themselves spiritually and attain a closer union with God. Many BDSM practitioners describe a feeling of spiritual union with their partners that transcends physical sexuality.

Let him submit absolutely; there may yet be hope. Let him offer his cheek to the one who strikes it, and receive his fill of insults. (Lamentations 3:29-30)

Bondage and discipline are part of the spiritual tradition of Christianity, and are reflected in how a loving, all-knowing God guides his followers and instructs them in His will.

If people are bound with chains and trapped by the cords of affliction, God tells them what they have done and how arrogantly they have transgressed. He opens their ears to correction and insists they repent from iniquity. If they serve Him obediently, they will end their days in prosperity and their years in happiness. (Job 36:8-11)

As God looks after us, in Christian BDSM, the husband looks after both his wife's spiritual growth and her physical needs, and the wife submits to her husband for guidance and fulfillment. For these reasons, the husband may find it appropriate to discipline her as needed, in a spirit of love. He disciplines her as God disciplines all of us believers, and as we read in Hebrews, this may smart at the time, but is always for our own good:

My son, do not take the Lord's discipline lightly, or faint when you are reproved by Him; for the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and punishes every son whom He receives…He does it for our benefit, so that we can share His holiness. No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields the fruit of peace and righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Hebrews 12:5-11)


I got this information from here but figured it would be easier to just summerize it here.

This has some information that I didn't paste

YourCaptor said:

This Christian girl once claimed my attempts to convince her to see me before god sounded exactly like lucifers seductions.




How do you just glance over that aspect, sex is like half of what Christianity is about. And doesn't anal get you turned into salt or something.

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The marriage bed is undefiled before God. However the terms of marriage in the Bible are somewhat shaky.

Anal sex was not Sodoms problem but what the Bible refers to an unnatural affection of males toward other males (Since God made Eve for Adam it is assumed that this was His plan...)

And what turned Lots wife to salt was not that she had anal sex, but that the angel instructed Lot that they should leave the city and not look back. Lots wife turned back to the city; Hense the salt.

Passing said:

The marriage bed is undefiled before God. However the terms of marriage in the Bible are somewhat shaky.

Anal sex was not Sodoms problem but what the Bible refers to an unnatural affection of males toward other males (Since God made Eve for Adam it is assumed that this was His plan...)

And what turned Lots wife to salt was not that she had anal sex, but that the angel instructed Lot that they should leave the city and not look back. Lots wife turned back to the city; Hense the salt.

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Nah. They're clear. The men rule and the women are subservient.

What does "undefiled before god" mean?

Stella_Omega said:

What does "undefiled before god" mean?

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Undefiled means pure, having no faults, sinless. I'm not sure exactly how it works within the sentence. I have an idea, but I'm not sure.

this has some people's opinions on what it means.

Means You Wash Your Sheets

slavebitch said:

Undefiled means pure, having no faults, sinless. I'm not sure exactly how it works within the sentence. I have an idea, but I'm not sure.

this has some people's opinions on what it means.

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"Do whatever you want, but not Anal! I think it's yucky, and God agrees with me! But I think oral is okay, and so does God."

Jesus on a pogostick.

Stella_Omega said:

"Do whatever you want, but not Anal! I think it's yucky, and God agrees with me! But I think oral is okay, and so does God."

Jesus on a pogostick.

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Scripture: It's subjective, but also what the UNIVERSE wants.

ImOnIt said:

Scripture: It's subjective, but also what the UNIVERSE wants.

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And the Universe does not want anal?
All those black holes had me fooled.

The Bible is full of things that are clean and unclean, especially in the Old Testement.

(Pork is considered unclean, and even in todays society you have to handle and prepare with care.)

More religiously inclined individuals believe where the waste comes out is unclean and not to touch that with what is clean. (no offense to those who like anal, myself included ocasionally)

In the Old Testement even touching the hand of a woman with an issue of blood will make you unclean for several days and you are not permitted in the place of worship until you have made yourself clean (no im not talking about a bath, lol).

It may seem that all Christians are hipocrites and they make stuff up out of convenience, but there is a wide range of interpretations of scriptures and a lot of grey areas that become even more difficult to define between the old and new testements.

Slave,
The link you shared demonstrates the range correctly; staunch to very flexable.

I only meant to convey two things:
1. If your married, take delight in your spouse however you see fit.
2. God did not turn lots wife to salt because of anal sex.

If you dont want to hear the answer, dont ask...
Just trying to comfort everyone, not nail you to the wall, lol.

Christian BDSM is a flourishing subsector of the subculture.

I've long postulated that, at some point, once "traditional" male-dominant relations were sufficiently marginalised in the mainstream culture, that there would be a confluence between (some) Christians and (some) BDSMers.

The BDSM culture provides a ready-made, underground template that could easily be adopted by conservative Christians.

Naturally there would be tension with the mainstream of the BDSM underground which is libertarian, gay-friendly and so on.

Passing said:

If you dont want to hear the answer, dont ask...

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Ooh, it isn't that I don;t want to hear the answers-- But the idea that you know what God wants because, of course, he wants what you want-- is laughable and also disgusting.

Stella,
"I" did not suggest that God wants what I want. What I suggested was that with the only known source of data that I am pivy to (The Bible) I may not entirely understand what He said when He said what He did... ( By the way, after I posted i thought 'Darn I just know I'm gonna offend someone with that', lol)

Rosco,
You are incredibly correct.

I believe it is hard to find a naturally dominant male in our culture today and am not surprised they might tend to gravitate in this direction.

Passing said:

Stella,
"I" did not suggest that God wants what I want. What I suggested was that with the only known source of data that I am pivy to (The Bible) I may not entirely understand what He said when He said what He did... ( By the way, after I posted i thought 'Darn I just know I'm gonna offend someone with that', lol)

Rosco,
You are incredibly correct.

I believe it is hard to find a naturally dominant male in our culture today and am not surprised they might tend to gravitate in this direction.

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Either they're naturally dominant, or culturally determined...N'est ce pas?

This is true. And I do like both....

I've only been able to submit myself to the one kind though. It is something primal that dwells inside me that answers to true dominance. It recognizes affectations even if I don't.

I know, I know. You are thinking dont worry, honey. I'll make you submit. but I am not talking about actions, or being forced. I'm talking about a total response, total submission.

rosco rathbone said:

The BDSM culture provides a ready-made, underground template that could easily be adopted by conservative Christians. Naturally there would be tension with the mainstream of the BDSM underground which is libertarian, gay-friendly and so on.

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This, more or less, is what also came to my mind when reading this thread.

To me, the power differences found in religion and in bdsm seem to be the exact opposite of each other. Funny, how they backed up in opposite directions so much, their butts bump into each other again. Reminds me of how some radical feminists would work with extreme conservatives to eradicate porn, or of particular anti-fascists so dogmatic they become practically indistinguishable from the things they fight against. Interesting phenomenon, to say the least.

That's on a theoretical level, of course. On a practical level: if you're able to reconcile both your kink and your religion, go for it. Good for you.

We don't really think about religion as a basis, affiliation or justification for our BDSM....he is Catholic though non-practicing as such, I am Buddhist. All that being said, just wanted to say how refreshing it is to see someone post and say they do not feel the need to disclose their sexual habits to the church etc. Seems so many seem to think it is vital to disclose it and the details to family, friends, acquaintances, and just about anyone who passes by...go figure.

Catalina

slavebitch said:

I'm Christian and very much into BDSM. I haven't found a problem between the two, though I do keep my two lives seperate. Though, I've found that a lot of BDSM overlaps into Christianity. A BDSM is actually the perfect marriage in the bible taken litterally.

...

As God looks after us, in Christian BDSM, the husband looks after both his wife's spiritual growth and her physical needs, and the wife submits to her husband for guidance and fulfillment. For these reasons, the husband may find it appropriate to discipline her as needed, in a spirit of love. He disciplines her as God disciplines all of us believers, and as we read in Hebrews, this may smart at the time, but is always for our own good.

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Ok, I still keep wondering: what about submissive men and dominant women?

catalina_francisco said:

We don't really think about religion as a basis, affiliation or justification for our BDSM....he is Catholic though non-practicing as such, I am Buddhist. All that being said, just wanted to say how refreshing it is to see someone post and say they do not feel the need to disclose their sexual habits to the church etc. Seems so many seem to think it is vital to disclose it and the details to family, friends, acquaintances, and just about anyone who passes by...go figure.

Catalina

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I definately agree with this. I would never disclose it nor details to hardly anyone, even my closest friends. Then again, I live among such close-minded people who would most likely react with institutionalizing me. Ha.