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Leaked! Oh My!

JackLuis

JackLuis

Literotica Guru
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Sep 21, 2008
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Wikileaks is at it again.

After a cyber attack this weekend, Der Spiegel, had this summery.

251,000 State Department documents, many of them secret embassy reports from around the world, show how the US seeks to safeguard its influence around the world. It is nothing short of a political meltdown for US foreign policy.
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Oh Shit, the Family Jewels!​

They even have this cool time phased map, showing the point of origin and date by year.

Much in the material was noted and sent because those compiling the reports or their dialogue partners believed, with some certainty, that their transcripts would not be made public for the next 25 years. That may also explain why the ambassadors and emissaries from Washington were so willing to report gossip and hearsay back to State Department headquarters. One cable from the Moscow Embassy on Russian first lady Svetlana Medvedeva, for example, states that she is "generating tensions between the camps and remains the subject of avid gossip." It then goes on to report that President Medvedev's wife had already drawn up a list of officials who should be made to "suffer" in their careers because they had been disloyal to Medvedev. Another reports that the wife of Azerbaijan leader Ilham Aliyev has had so much plastic surgery that it is possible to confuse her for one of her daughters from a distance, but that she can barely still move her face.
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Lots of gossip and maybe some "wingnutisim" and a bit of the truth?

It will be interesting how this plays out in the NYT?
 
It isn't playing well across the Middle East, nor in Europe.

US diplomacy has been dealt a severe blow and these leaks have damaged friends and allies. What you say about each other behind closed doors isn't the same as you would say face-to-face.

It will be slightly embarrassing for US relations in Europe. It could be fatal to any chance of peace in the Middle East.

Og
 
oggbashan said:
It isn't playing well across the Middle East, nor in Europe.

US diplomacy has been dealt a severe blow and these leaks have damaged friends and allies. What you say about each other behind closed doors isn't the same as you would say face-to-face.

It will be slightly embarrassing for US relations in Europe. It could be fatal to any chance of peace in the Middle East.

Og
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This is, of course, hypocritical of those in the Middle East and Europe who do exactly the same thing in their foreign office cables. How can you understand the nuances and variables of international relations if you can't have private channels for honest assessment?
 
sr71plt said:
This is, of course, hypocritical of those in the Middle East and Europe who do exactly the same thing in their foreign office cables. How can you understand the nuances and variables of international relations if you can't have private channels for honest assessment?
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In the UK we understand that your ambassadors can call an asshole an asshole. You do. We do about your assholes too.

But in many other countries calling a spade a spade is undiplomatic and causes real offence. Hardline clerics can damn westerners as Kuffar and running dogs but when we describe them in equally derogatory terms people can get killed.

Communist China's language about democratic Western countries has been colourful yet they resent external criticism and will react to it. That is dangerous.

Do not be fooled. Wikileaks' disclosures have really harmed the US.

Og
 
Yes it has, will damage the US's Diplomacy, but knowledgeable observers will be more interested in deciphering the attitudes and viewpoints of America.

Now we shall see if Hillery can be effective when she's violated the 'code'. And we shall see in the leaks what they didn't want us to know about Hamid and perhaps Pakistan?

The Der Speigle story was far from complete and mostly was gossip. I can't wait to see what else is in the mass.

http://cdn97.atkingdom-network.com/unsecure/amkingdom/hairy/02/101129/lol024WBP_212785034.jpg
 
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oggbashan said:
In the UK we understand that your ambassadors can call an asshole an asshole. You do. We do about your assholes too.

But in many other countries calling a spade a spade is undiplomatic and causes real offence. Hardline clerics can damn westerners as Kuffar and running dogs but when we describe them in equally derogatory terms people can get killed.

Communist China's language about democratic Western countries has been colourful yet they resent external criticism and will react to it. That is dangerous.

Do not be fooled. Wikileaks' disclosures have really harmed the US.

Og
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I think you underestimate the rest of the world. And this isn't about calling people anything in the open.

Bald, honest assessment of all you are dealing with has been fundamental to private diplomat notes for all time--and all nations have always done it.

Yes, it hurts U.S. diplomacy to have it revealed, but I don't think there's a single nation that doesn't engage in it. It's required for the formulation of policy.

But the first naive AHer who comes along and suggests that it's something the Obama administration is doing that no other administration did--or that there's something wrong or weak about doing it--is going to get the horse laugh.
 
sr71plt said:
...

But the first naive AHer who comes along and suggests that it's something the Obama administration is doing that no other administration did--or that there's something wrong or weak about doing it--is going to get the horse laugh.
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If the leaks had been from the UK's diplomatic correspondence, or France's or Germany's - the direct language would have been similar.

If the leaks had been from any US administration since 1776 - the direct language would have been similar.

What is damaging is the idea that the US is incapable of keeping secrets. Countries and diplomats are going to be far less open with US envoys than they have in the past, and that will not help negotiation in difficult crises.

Og

PS. The Germans were reading the UK's diplomatic messages in Turkey during WWII. They had a wonderful source of information about the Allies' strategic aims - but they didn't believe it.

We are "at war with terrorists". These leaks damage our capability to deter terrorist attacks.
 
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The WikeLeaks scenario, thus far, has not made even a tiny dimple of the fabric of the American scene...and probably will not, regardless.

No one reads or listens to the pundits on the content of the leaked, Confidential material...no one.

The perpetrator, an Australian named Asange, if memory serves, it's not worth researching, is just another facet of anti American rhetoric that is world wide' who gives a shit?

What these revealing excerpts of policy wonks will accomplish, is to bring the US down to the level of European intrigue that has always been a part of global politics. That comes as a surprise to anyone?

This, too, will come and go and be but a footnote in history.

Siound and fury, indicative of nothing.

Amicus
 
oggbashan said:
Do not be fooled. Wikileaks' disclosures have really harmed the US.

Og
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That Og is nonsense. They have not harmed the US in the slightest

1 Because everybody does it (says unkind things about everybody else.) Professional diplomats and Intelligence people will laugh their socks off at the banality of most of this stuff and the huffing and puffing of their politicians.

2 Because the US government is already envied and hated simply because they're top nation. All the littlies and has beens like to disparage, it's the only thing that makes them feel important.

The only danger is that politicians will use it as an excuse to try and hide more information in the future. They don't get it that in the internet age it's harder than ever to keep secrets.One event I am looking forward to is when a similar clutch of leaks comes out of China. The Chinese have got a small army of computer hackers placing and stealing (mis) information. It's only a matter of time before one of their own does a Bradley Manning.

But I do think Julian Assange is creepy.:)
 
Wiki-leak confirms reporting by veteran journalist Seymour Hersh

What, now we find that Seymour was right!

According to Hersh, in late 2007, "Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country's religious leadership. The covert activities involve support of the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. They also include gathering intelligence about Iran's suspected nuclear-weapons program."

This is precisely the approach Dagan and Burns discussed at August 2007 meeting, as described in the leaked cable.
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Reminds me of Rummy's boast that he could take care of Iraq for just $200 Billion! No wonder we can't afford to fund Social security!
 
Zeb_Carter said:
Fuck porn...:D
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Ok Zeb, if you say so.

Leaked cables reveal America’s ‘profound hatred of democracy,’ Chomsky declares
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Specifically, the scholar noted the Brookings Institute's recent release of its annual poll on what Arabs think about Iran, the United States, and Israel.

"The results are rather striking. They show that Arab opinion holds that the major threat in the region is Israel. That's 80 percent. The second major threat is the United States. That's 77 percent. Iran is listed as a threat by 10 percent. With regard to nuclear weapons rather remarkably, the majority -- in fact 57 percent -- say that it will have a positve effect on the region if Iran had nuclear weapons. These are not small numbers," he said.
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On the other hand.

The massive leak of documents don't mean as much as an unintentional Leak of Senatorial opinion.

C-Span mic catches US Senator’s candor: The Senate ‘is all rigged’
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What! Our Government rigged! Of course it is rigged. The Senate rules, the Leadership structure, the payoffs and campaign contributions? Fuck yes, it's rigged.
but the Senator was complaining of an entirely different aspect.

"Because -- because ... It's all rigged," Sen. Michael Bennet (D-CO) said, speaking to a female colleague as fellow Senators voted.

"I mean, the whole conversation is rigged," he went on. "The fact that we don’t get to a discussion before the break about what we’re going to do in the lame duck, is just rigged. This stuff's rigged."
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but what struck me was the photo in the piece.
http://www.rawstory.com/images/new/michaelbennetwithobama.jpg

"Yeah Mike, I feel your pain, now vote the way they told ya'"​
 
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The Guardian speaks

US embassy cables: The job of the media is not to protect the powerful from embarrassment
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Wow strident.

Is it justified? Should a newspaper disclose virtually all a nation's secret diplomatic communication, illegally downloaded by one of its citizens? The reporting in the Guardian of the first of a selection of 250,000 US state department cables marks a recasting of modern diplomacy. Clearly, there is no longer such a thing as a safe electronic archive, whatever computing's snake-oil salesmen claim. No organisation can treat digitised communication as confidential. An electronic secret is a contradiction in terms.
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Very probably true.

The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment. If American spies are breaking United Nations rules by seeking the DNA biometrics of the UN director general, he is entitled to hear of it. British voters should know what Afghan leaders thought of British troops. American (and British) taxpayers might question, too, how most of the billions of dollars going in aid to Afghanistan simply exits the country at Kabul airport.
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Rapid Capital Deployment, RCD I guess you'd say.
 
Interpol issues a wanted for Julian Assange

WikiLeaks: Interpol issues wanted notice for Julian Assange

Oh for what?

Assange's details were also added to Interpol's worldwide wanted list. Dated 30 November, the entry reads: "sex crimes" and says the warrant has been issued by the international public prosecution office in Gothenburg, Sweden. "If you have any information contact your national or local police." It reads: "Wanted: Assange, Julian Paul," and gives his birthplace as Townsville, Australia.
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Sex Crimes? IN Sweden?

Is it persecution, the alleged rape complaint? Is it the evil hand of the bureaucracy reaching even now for our reclusive Leaker? Or was he "mad with is own power" and took her as his due?

Leaker and Leakee?
 
This isn't the "CableGate" but interesting.

I didn't want to start a new thread just for a Dick.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/224095/thumbs/s-CHENEY-NIGERIA-large.jpg

Nigeria: Dick Cheney To Be Charged Over Alleged Bribery Case
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Nigerian authorities will charge former Vice President Dick Cheney over a bribery scandal that is alleged to involve Halliburton, BusinessWeek reports. An arrest warrant "will be issued and transmitted through Interpol," said Godwin Obla, the prosecuting counsel at the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission in Nigeria.

The charges center on an alleged $180 million bribery payment used to secure a $6 billion liquefied natural gas contract. Prosecutors are also looking into international companies Saipem and Technip. Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton from 1995 to 2000, before becoming George W. Bush's running mate. "As the CEO of Halliburton, he has the responsibility for acts that occurred during that period," Obla told the AFP.
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Back to the subject.


WikiLeaks: Russia Is Virtual Mafia State
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http://i.huffpost.com/gen/224064/thumbs/s-PUTIN-LITVINENKO-large.jpg

MOSCOW — The leaked U.S. diplomatic cables that portray Russia as a virtual mafia state are "total nonsense" of doubtful authenticity, the spokesman of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Thursday.

"We don't know whether these dispatches, cables are authentic or some kind of fakes," Dmitri Peskov told Itar Tass news agency. "They look like total nonsense."
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Well they are "government" opinion.

A source "told us that people often witness officials going into the Kremlin with large suitcases and bodyguards and he speculated that the suitcases are full of money," the cable reads.

"The governors collect money based on bribes, almost resembling a tax system, throughout their regions," it continues.

Kremlin critics and opposition were hardly surprised by the allegations.

"Corruption is no longer a problem," opposition leader and former deputy prime minister Boris Nemtsov told Gazeta.ru online daily. "It is a system that supports Putin's robber regime."
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I'm sure glad they are no longer Communist Robbers.:)
 
JackLuis said:
Well they are "government" opinion.
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Well, no, which is a point that needs to be understood. They are assessments by individual government servants. They are an element going into the formulation of a government policy/position. But only one of many elements and not the government opinion itself.

What Putin expressed here is the chosen Russian government opinion--to pretend what happened didn't happen, so, officially for the Russians, the cables are fakes.
 
sr71plt said:
Well, no, which is a point that needs to be understood. They are assessments by individual government servants. They are an element going into the formulation of a government policy/position. But only one of many elements and not the government opinion itself.

What Putin expressed here is the chosen Russian government opinion--to pretend what happened didn't happen, so, officially for the Russians, the cables are fakes.
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I understand that the cables represent the opinions of individuals, in many cases, although the Ambassadorial reports, undoubtedly have staff input. I did not mean to say that they "Were the Governments opinion", only that they were the product of the governmental system.

You may have noticed that our Government in it's various forms may have very different interpretations of the same facts. It is through gathering consensus that a Policy may be formed and everyone informed as the the "Correct" viewpoint.

I fully expect the world will openly question the import of the Leak, much as Putin did, publicly. But I'll bet he's got a man down loading the leaks to capture a glimpse of the process. The list of documents is so large that it will take a long time to review them all, not that I will. :rolleyes:
 
JackLuis said:
I understand that the cables represent the opinions of individuals, in many cases, although the Ambassadorial reports, undoubtedly have staff input. I did not mean to say that they "Were the Governments opinion", only that they were the product of the governmental system.

You may have noticed that our Government in it's various forms may have very different interpretations of the same facts. It is through gathering consensus that a Policy may be formed and everyone informed as the the "Correct" viewpoint.

I fully expect the world will openly question the import of the Leak, much as Putin did, publicly. But I'll bet he's got a man down loading the leaks to capture a glimpse of the process. The list of documents is so large that it will take a long time to review them all, not that I will. :rolleyes:
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I understood what you were trying to say. But so many don't understand anything about how governments conduct business. Which is why the leaking of these cables is so scary and treasonous. On-the-scene diplomats need to know they have some way of communicating their piece of the puzzle home short of flying home every week to report in person. Otherwise a nation's policy is going to fly right off the rails. It's why, although, I had a radical socialist background, I went into intelligence work. Tried my best to honestly feed back what was actually happening so there was a chance that the resulting policy would have taken as much of the objective situation into consideration as possible.

And someone like Putin wasn't under any allusion that the U.S. government loved him anyway. He's just not going for the cheap points in this. (One reason is that we got our hands on his personal background file decades ago.)
 
Well not all of them are classified and I haven't seen a gun smoking like Bush's Book did. I haven't been able to see if the leaks point to a single issue but it is plain to see we have no control and very little influence in Pakistan.
 
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