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Old 11-07-2010, 01:25 PM   #1
CJontherocks
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Top, Bottom, or Middle

I'd like to talk about the whole top and bottom thing.

Until just recently, I noticed a great many men here claim, either explicity or implicitly, to be "bottoms," while others talk about being a "top." Some guys like fucking, while some like being fucked. But there weren't any who talked of both; no middle ground.

Then I came upon a thread (and forgive me, but I can't remember which thread) where a number of men spoke of enjoying a little... okay, a lot... of both. My own thoughts are closer to this idea.

I'm more of a "middle." And by that, I don't mean literally, although that is a fantasy I'd like to experience some day. I mean simply that I equally enjoy fucking and being fucked. I enjoying pleasing a man, as well as being pleased by a man. I like sex with men in a way that's more on equal footing. Neither top nor bottom; no domme, no sub. But sometimes a little of both.

Of course, I've gone through all the thought processes regarding personal identity and this "category" or that... I don't categorize myself in any way except to acknowledge that I am a bisexual man. But sometimes, I wonder if I'm just a little wishy-washy about the whole thing. I really enjoy being the pleasurer, but don't really like the idea of being submissive. If I'm fucking a man, and by that I mean my dick is sliding in and out of his ass or mouth, I don't think of him as being submissive. I feel the same way if I'm the one with the cock inside me. Effeminate men don't turn me on, and I don't consider myself to be one. I prefer effeminate women and masculine men. But I maintain my masculinity with either.

Now I'm concerned about two things. First is the fact that in the paragraph above, I identified who is doing the fucking with who is offering the dick. I don't think that way about women. In my head, having sex with a woman is equal fucking. She's fucking me; I'm fucking her; we're fucking. Second, I also identified femininity with who is being fucked. Does this say something about the way I think? Maybe I'm overanalyzing and simply used the descriptions for clarity. I like to think I feel the same about women as I do about men, but I'm not sure that's true. I'm not sure it has to be true.

Your thoughts?
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:01 PM   #2
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I think you are looking way to deep into this. I dont think there is anything wrong with your way of thinking either. If you want you partner to be on the same level as you, thats fine. Some of us, however, really like being as far from that middle ground(on one side or the other) as possible.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:10 PM   #3
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You're probably right. And I did not mean to assign any judgment about any desire or another. We all have our own desires. That's one of the beautiful things about being individuals.

I guess I'm just trying to explore those relationships, to get some feedback while exploring my own desires and expectations.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:22 PM   #4
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You're probably right. And I did not mean to assign any judgment about any desire or another. We all have our own desires. That's one of the beautiful things about being individuals.

I guess I'm just trying to explore those relationships, to get some feedback while exploring my own desires and expectations.
"we are who we are and that's who we are" (Popeye the Sailor Man), don't think too much, just be. I am learning that sexuality is such an individual phenonenom and the more we try to put labels and name tags on it, we find that we can't really accurately describe who we are. kinsey and klein opened the doors to better understand the conintuum and fluidity of human sexuality but we are a long way from understanding what really makes humans who they are sexually. I believe, as I come to terms with my own sexuality / identity / orientation, that there only grey areas. I am Dave, I like women, I am curiously attracted to men as well, somedays I fantasize about men, somedays its women, i have never been with a man but i might like to try it, will i like it ? don't know...does it matter as i type ? nope because life is just a journey and my sexuality is part of the journey.....good luck with your search for yourself, it is not easy but be kind to yourself, you are worth it.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:43 PM   #5
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:40 AM   #6
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Look, we are who we are. I am a lot like you - I am 100% bi, and don't care which way I go (but, being the middle man in a 3 some is way up there). There are many more of us than you realize (either gay or bi). Just accept what you are for who you are and be happy. And - I have many friends where we are both equally happy giving or receiving. As someone else eluded to: Why are you trying to psychoanalyze your own happiness?
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:45 AM   #7
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Random musings, I guess. I'm not as hung up on it as my post evidently sounded. I just felt like talking about it.

I'll go back to the "Currently Masturbating" thread now. ;o)
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:49 AM   #8
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJontherocks View Post
I'd like to talk about the whole top and bottom thing.

Until just recently, I noticed a great many men here claim, either explicity or implicitly, to be "bottoms," while others talk about being a "top." Some guys like fucking, while some like being fucked. But there weren't any who talked of both; no middle ground.

Then I came upon a thread (and forgive me, but I can't remember which thread) where a number of men spoke of enjoying a little... okay, a lot... of both. My own thoughts are closer to this idea.

I'm more of a "middle." And by that, I don't mean literally, although that is a fantasy I'd like to experience some day. I mean simply that I equally enjoy fucking and being fucked. I enjoying pleasing a man, as well as being pleased by a man. I like sex with men in a way that's more on equal footing. Neither top nor bottom; no domme, no sub. But sometimes a little of both.

Of course, I've gone through all the thought processes regarding personal identity and this "category" or that... I don't categorize myself in any way except to acknowledge that I am a bisexual man. But sometimes, I wonder if I'm just a little wishy-washy about the whole thing. I really enjoy being the pleasurer, but don't really like the idea of being submissive. If I'm fucking a man, and by that I mean my dick is sliding in and out of his ass or mouth, I don't think of him as being submissive. I feel the same way if I'm the one with the cock inside me. Effeminate men don't turn me on, and I don't consider myself to be one. I prefer effeminate women and masculine men. But I maintain my masculinity with either.

Now I'm concerned about two things. First is the fact that in the paragraph above, I identified who is doing the fucking with who is offering the dick. I don't think that way about women. In my head, having sex with a woman is equal fucking. She's fucking me; I'm fucking her; we're fucking. Second, I also identified femininity with who is being fucked. Does this say something about the way I think? Maybe I'm overanalyzing and simply used the descriptions for clarity. I like to think I feel the same about women as I do about men, but I'm not sure that's true. I'm not sure it has to be true.

Your thoughts?
Means you are versatile. Don't worry about it. I would venture a guess that most gay men are versatile, and some prefer to bottom more, some prefer to top more, some prefer to always switch.

My bf and I are both bottoms, although he tops me, and I occasionally top him. He will top others too, so he is more a versatile bottom. We know a married couple who are both strictly tops. We have another friend who is also strictly a top, but allows a certain select few guys to top him.

Is your head spinning yet? Don't worry about the labels, have fun, as sex is meant to be.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:58 AM   #10
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I think the top/bottom thing gets confused with behavior as Dom or Sub. I never think of myself as submissive when I'm sucking a cock or being fucked. It's what gives me pleasure. Psychologically I am just as much of a user and a taker as the owner of the cock inside me, because my best orgasms are realized that way.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:21 AM   #11
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Ive never had a man but think about it more and more. Every time I think about a man his dick is in me. (i find it equally exiting to think about it in my ass and mouth) Never once did I ever J/O and think of my dick in another man. I guess that makes me sub.
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrOftheNite View Post
I think the top/bottom thing gets confused with behavior as Dom or Sub. I never think of myself as submissive when I'm sucking a cock or being fucked. It's what gives me pleasure. Psychologically I am just as much of a user and a taker as the owner of the cock inside me, because my best orgasms are realized that way.
What you stated was a very good post. Way too many people assume topping is all about taking pleasure and not giving any. Likewise, that bottoming is all about giving pleasure and not receiving any. If it was truly that, bottoms would be so rare that fucking would die out.

Yes I crave topping. I haven't bottomed since 1985 and don't miss it one bit. I decided back then that between AIDS and discomfort, why should I engage in something with some danger that I never even liked? I mean, if you hated spinach, would you force yourself to eat it until the day you die because some inner voice says you should?

I also don't understand the original poster's statement that str8 fucking is mutually fucking, but some how gay fucking is not. Would str8 anal fucking also be only one way? The clitoris is actually outside the vagina, so even in regular intercourse, fucking is not exactly about the most sensitive part of the penis rubbing up against the clit. Thus I don't understand the imbalance in his thinking about gay fucking. My guess is that he never had that much pleasure from getting fucked even if he is versatile. I can relate to that since I never did either. However, I have seen enough bottoms truly enjoying getting fucked enough that it cannot all be some kind of faking just to please me.

I should add that to me the act of fucking isn't over until the bottom says it is over. If I cum and the bottom feels he still wants or needs more, I don't roll over and say good night. Likewise, when a bottom is sore, I stop. I can even loose an erection if I'm not giving pleasure to the other guy. As much as I like orgasm, I cannot get off on a bottom who isn't enjoying himself. If he isn't enjoying it, then "I" have failed. Personal failure does NOT get me hard or keep me hard.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:39 AM   #13
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Granted I come from the opposite side of the fence in this discussion being female but I think the middle is the best - both giving and taking is where I find the most intense pleasure
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:11 PM   #14
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Granted I come from the opposite side of the fence in this discussion being female but I think the middle is the best - both giving and taking is where I find the most intense pleasure
Indeed!
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:16 PM   #15
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Indeed!
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrOftheNite View Post
I think the top/bottom thing gets confused with behavior as Dom or Sub. I never think of myself as submissive when I'm sucking a cock or being fucked. It's what gives me pleasure. Psychologically I am just as much of a user and a taker as the owner of the cock inside me, because my best orgasms are realized that way.
I think you're absolutely right, and I'm probably guilty of that as well. But much of the discussion I see seems to make that connection... or else I just made that connection in my own head because I fell for the paradigm.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:17 AM   #17
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I also don't understand the original poster's statement that str8 fucking is mutually fucking, but some how gay fucking is not. Would str8 anal fucking also be only one way? .... Thus I don't understand the imbalance in his thinking about gay fucking.
Exactly, and that line of thinking that got me wondering why I was thinking that way. I much prefer to think of sex with men in the same way I think of sex with women. Maybe my experience has colored my thinking, or what I read or see in porn or what I grew up believing... I dunno. I'd like to spend a year or two with a man and find out.

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My guess is that he never had that much pleasure from getting fucked even if he is versatile. I can relate to that since I never did either. However, I have seen enough bottoms truly enjoying getting fucked enough that it cannot all be some kind of faking just to please me.
And you're right about this... I've only been topped by one guy, and he was a bit impatient (and fairly well endowed). I had to ask him to stop. I do enjoy anal play with toys and fingers, so I'm sure I would enjoy sex with the right guy, especially with all the other sensual things that go with it... the body heat, the passion, the energy, the... whew!
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:55 AM   #18
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I think you're absolutely right, and I'm probably guilty of that as well. But much of the discussion I see seems to make that connection... or else I just made that connection in my own head because I fell for the paradigm.
I have also heard it equated (mostly about guys) that the one DOING the fucking is the more dominant of the two....but that also comes from hearsay not first hand knowledge...I have never asked anyone who I know personally who is bi how they feel on the dominant/submissive roles...Granted I only know 2 who openly admit to being bi and can't see either of them being effeminate or ones to be "submissive" but that is only my take on their personality outside the bedroom...
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by CJontherocks View Post
I'd like to talk about the whole top and bottom thing.

Until just recently, I noticed a great many men here claim, either explicity or implicitly, to be "bottoms," while others talk about being a "top." Some guys like fucking, while some like being fucked. But there weren't any who talked of both; no middle ground.

Then I came upon a thread (and forgive me, but I can't remember which thread) where a number of men spoke of enjoying a little... okay, a lot... of both. My own thoughts are closer to this idea.

I'm more of a "middle." And by that, I don't mean literally, although that is a fantasy I'd like to experience some day. I mean simply that I equally enjoy fucking and being fucked. I enjoying pleasing a man, as well as being pleased by a man. I like sex with men in a way that's more on equal footing. Neither top nor bottom; no domme, no sub. But sometimes a little of both.

Of course, I've gone through all the thought processes regarding personal identity and this "category" or that... I don't categorize myself in any way except to acknowledge that I am a bisexual man. But sometimes, I wonder if I'm just a little wishy-washy about the whole thing. I really enjoy being the pleasurer, but don't really like the idea of being submissive. If I'm fucking a man, and by that I mean my dick is sliding in and out of his ass or mouth, I don't think of him as being submissive. I feel the same way if I'm the one with the cock inside me. Effeminate men don't turn me on, and I don't consider myself to be one. I prefer effeminate women and masculine men. But I maintain my masculinity with either.

Now I'm concerned about two things. First is the fact that in the paragraph above, I identified who is doing the fucking with who is offering the dick. I don't think that way about women. In my head, having sex with a woman is equal fucking. She's fucking me; I'm fucking her; we're fucking. Second, I also identified femininity with who is being fucked. Does this say something about the way I think? Maybe I'm overanalyzing and simply used the descriptions for clarity. I like to think I feel the same about women as I do about men, but I'm not sure that's true. I'm not sure it has to be true.

Your thoughts?
For all I can see, you sound like somebody who is basically straight but with bi tenancies.
I'd just go with the flow.....
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:39 AM   #20
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And you're right about this... I've only been topped by one guy, and he was a bit impatient (and fairly well endowed). I had to ask him to stop. I do enjoy anal play with toys and fingers, so I'm sure I would enjoy sex with the right guy, especially with all the other sensual things that go with it... the body heat, the passion, the energy, the... whew!
I would add that the biggest sex organ really is the brain. What makes a good top isn't the size of his cock, how much he cums, or for that matter how long he can keep it up, etc. Rather, it is about how turned on he is to get the other person off on the experience. If he is just in that animal mode where climax is all it is about, then only someone into being banged to death will enjoy it. It would be a LIE to say guys don't like climax. However, the icing on that cake is if the bottom guy enjoyed the experience too. One of the hottest things to experience is a bottom cumming while you fuck him. His asshole literally spasms around your cock. Also watching and hearing his body is an added plus as the bottom approaches climax.

I have multiple mental triggers that for me make anal out of this world. First of all, if you have to have labels, I would use the label gay for me. I yearned for a man's love since I was young. I don't see it all as just genetic, but for me personally adult males in my life growing up either died, or were absent. I mention this because for some weird reason, I always saw a guy letting me fuck him as the ultimate act of trust/love/bonding. So for me, fucking a guy is more than just a tight hole to get off in.

Anybody can put a cock in their mouth. However, for a guy to lift his legs, meant the ultimate venerability. (Of course as a wiser adult, I realize some do it just cause they love it. Still our minds don't always conform to logic & reason.) So with that idea that giving up your ass as being the ultimate offering, how could I not want the bottom man to have a wonderful time? (I should say, that for myself, I never liked bottoming. I tried it enough times before 1984 that I know I'm not saying I'm a top to somehow imply that I'm more manly than a bottom. It just wasn't my thing. If one had to be a bottom to be gay, I'd go str8.)

Nevertheless, no two tops are the same anymore than bottoms. There are tops who just need climax. If you want to have a good top for a good experience, you just have to shop around. Do note that it isn't a matter of being friends first. Your best friend may be willing to lay his life down to save yours, but when he comes to fucking he may simply be another out-of-control beast in a race for his own climax.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:09 PM   #21
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who needs a label. Go and do what's fun. Just because you are a top now doesn't mean that won't change.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:27 PM   #22
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I think you are looking way to deep into this. I dont think there is anything wrong with your way of thinking either. If you want you partner to be on the same level as you, thats fine. Some of us, however, really like being as far from that middle ground(on one side or the other) as possible.
I must agree with biguy, in part. "way to deep" I don't know your age or experiences, but take it from a man closing in on 60 years of age who may or may not have a lot of life to live, Don't over think things when it comes to desires wants and needs in the sexual world. If you remember or heard of the "60's" slogan: "if it feels good do it" take heart.
I have found that too many of us want to examine,explore,ponder,justify and rationalize our wants. If we are not hurting or exploiting the desires of another human being.......why must we question our actions ?
I plan to make the most of my wants needs and desires while I still have my health, looks and a good erection.
Well, I have rambled on some eh? Just wanted to talk some.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:46 PM   #23
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i think its the same as being in a straight relationship. one partner is usually dominant and the other submissive; one penetrates and the other is penetrated. we in the gay community just have a name for all this, that's all.

as for being middle, well, depending on a LOT of factors, it might work for you. some bi men like to be bottoms with a man and tops with a women.

i say to each his own.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:52 PM   #24
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i think its the same as being in a straight relationship. one partner is usually dominant and the other submissive; one penetrates and the other is penetrated. we in the gay community just have a name for all this, that's all.

as for being middle, well, depending on a LOT of factors, it might work for you. some bi men like to be bottoms with a man and tops with a women.

i say to each his own.
I jokingly like to call myself a straight cocksucker because that's all I want to do sexually with another man A large part of the attraction for me is the intensely erotic feeling I get from being orally dominated and from willingly allowing my mouth and throat to be roughly used for the gratification and sexual release of other men.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:33 PM   #25
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So a middle....LOve it
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