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Old 05-07-2013, 09:20 AM   #1
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Exclamation WOW! That's amazing, it looks just like a photo!

If it looks just like a photo, there is a good chance it is.
If it is a photo realistic rendering of a photo...why bother?
Sure it can be a (tedious) exercise, but let photographers be photographers.

Of course, one can create, paint, draw, render (even digitally) photo-realistic (convincing) images, but I take issue with passing off some trickery as creativity.

In my opinion there is a difference between "tricks" and "technique". I use both.
"Tricks" are short cuts. "Techniques" are methods (including tricks) at a level of mastery, which comes from talent, experience, creativity and the ability to see.

Very often, CGI (Poser, for example) renderings are just "tricks". That is to say, using preprogramed models and tools within the program to "generate" an image, which looks "just like a photo>"...but generally it does not. The figures often appear "stiff" and plastic (not as in flexible, but glossy, injection molded). On the otherhand, those programs (tools), in the hands of someone with some mastery (see above), beautiful work can be created.


Don't get me started. Too late.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:10 AM   #2
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Here's one I painted.

Oh wait, no . . . I made the 3-D clothing Made in 3D studio Max and rendered in Daz Studio

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:15 AM   #3
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nicer than some, Derroreaper.

And, so long as a work is presented as what it is,. Hopefully the audience will understand, eventually, that the most amazing aspect comes from the programmers.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:00 AM   #4
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True!

You have much reason THROBBS. The big question in my life, is there creativity?, Or all art is an improved copy of another? (sometimes worsened).
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:05 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lupincomic View Post
You have much reason THROBBS. The big question in my life, is there creativity?, Or all art is an improved copy of another? (sometimes worsened).
Creativity does not come from the void.

We take what he have seen and experienced and..... muck it about.

In the journey, we invariably have to try things which may not be "creative", but help us learn to be. TRY a canvas filter to see what it does. Then put that in one's quiver.
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Last edited by THROBBS : 06-20-2013 at 09:34 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #6
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Sometimes as I look across of the garden without my glasses, I wonder if Monet was just a nearsighted realist.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noor View Post
Sometimes as I look across of the garden without my glasses, I wonder if Monet was just a nearsighted realist.
His vision actually did start to fail him.

http://www.livescience.com/1512-blur...recreated.html
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THROBBS View Post
His vision actually did start to fail him.

http://www.livescience.com/1512-blur...recreated.html
Thank you! very interesting esp. about Degas.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THROBBS View Post
Creativity doe snot come from the void.

We take what he have seen and experienced and..... muck it about.

In the journey, we invariably have to try things which may not be "creative", but help us learn to be. TRY a canvas filter to see what it does. Then put that in one's quiver.
I agree completely, though not every artist sees it that way. I remember inviting a modern dance filmmaker to an ice dance show and being told if he went it would dilute the purity of his vision of dance or something. Strangely enough, the conversation took place in an art Museum. I was so shocked, it would never occur to me to limit myself in that way.

I am a textile artist, designer and occasional painter. I draw inspiration from everything, fine art, music, film, nature, architecture, dance and more.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #10
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I agree completely, though not every artist sees it that way. I remember inviting a modern dance filmmaker to an ice dance show and being told if he went it would dilute the purity of his vision of dance or something. Strangely enough, the conversation took place in an art Museum. I was so shocked, it would never occur to me to limit myself in that way.

I am a textile artist, designer and occasional painter. I draw inspiration from everything, fine art, music, film, nature, architecture, dance and more.
he sounds like a pretentious ass.

However, too often "artists" assume the "mantel" of artsiness; be it a beret or an attitude. And, the general public falls for it, because we expect it. We want our artists to be crazy, to be flamboyant...



But it is good to remember: "just because you are misunderstood, does not make you an artist."
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THROBBS View Post
he sounds like a pretentious ass.

However, too often "artists" assume the "mantel" of artsiness; be it a beret or an attitude. And, the general public falls for it, because we expect it. We want our artists to be crazy, to be flamboyant...



But it is good to remember: "just because you are misunderstood, does not make you an artist."
My main thought was, wow you are a young idiot.

Some of the best professional artists I know are crazy, mainly bipolar. They don't want to be or make a show of it but it's there and tied to their work in many ways.

I am a fairly private artist, most people don't know unless they are artists themselves, see my work and know it's mine or are in my studio.

I have real problems with the thinking outside the box concept because for me there is no box.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Noor View Post
My main thought was, wow you are a young idiot.

Some of the best professional artists I know are crazy, mainly bipolar. They don't want to be or make a show of it but it's there and tied to their work in many ways.

I am a fairly private artist, most people don't know unless they are artists themselves, see my work and know it's mine or are in my studio.

I have real problems with the thinking outside the box concept because for me there is no box.
I do not mean that you cannot be "disturbed" and be an artist, it is not a requirement. certainly "afflictions", can lead to "creativity"... though sometimes that is only "absurdity". One must recognize the purpose. If there is no purpose....... pffft... it's just masturbation. Though someone ELSE...could recognize it later and in that recognition is a measure of creativity.



That's exactly what it means to think outside the "box", because in the puzzle from which it derives it's name there really is no "box", only nine dots arranged in a regular box-like pattern. Those who try to work the puzzle within the confines of this arbitrary, non-defined "restriction", cannot solve the puzzle.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THROBBS View Post
If it looks just like a photo, there is a good chance it is.
If it is a photo realistic rendering of a photo...why bother?
Sure it can be a (tedious) exercise, but let photographers be photographers.

Of course, one can create, paint, draw, render (even digitally) photo-realistic (convincing) images, but I take issue with passing off some trickery as creativity.

In my opinion there is a difference between "tricks" and "technique". I use both.
"Tricks" are short cuts. "Techniques" are methods (including tricks) at a level of mastery, which comes from talent, experience, creativity and the ability to see.

Very often, CGI (Poser, for example) renderings are just "tricks". That is to say, using preprogramed models and tools within the program to "generate" an image, which looks "just like a photo>"...but generally it does not. The figures often appear "stiff" and plastic (not as in flexible, but glossy, injection molded). On the otherhand, those programs (tools), in the hands of someone with some mastery (see above), beautiful work can be created.


Don't get me started. Too late.


Dear Throbbs, If the CGI artists do not have to worry about erasing multiple times to get the right proportions nor bother about achieving correct angles for their models right from the start, it does not mean that it is easier on their part to create a respectable artwork. I look at these softwares (like Poser and Daz) as a medium for them to display their imagination and creativity. Though using preprogrammed models/ model packs (made by someone else) in their work can be compared with starting your artwork with 'stencils' .... but IMO there is good work, so-so work and bad work .. irrespective of medium, materials and methods.

For those who seek for 'real'-photo-looking-paintings .. it definitely is not on the 'economical' side. I would rather love to see the artist's thought process, influences and inspirations in the artwork. Anyway, camera was invented for a reason .. and as a medium, it still requires great skill!


~Kim.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:03 PM   #14
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Dear Throbbs, If the CGI artists do not have to worry about erasing multiple times to get the right proportions nor bother about achieving correct angles for their models right from the start, it does not mean that it is easier on their part to create a respectable artwork. I look at these softwares (like Poser and Daz) as a medium for them to display their imagination and creativity. Though using preprogrammed models/ model packs (made by someone else) in their work can be compared with starting your artwork with 'stencils' .... but IMO there is good work, so-so work and bad work .. irrespective of medium, materials and methods.

For those who seek for 'real'-photo-looking-paintings .. it definitely is not on the 'economical' side. I would rather love to see the artist's thought process, influences and inspirations in the artwork. Anyway, camera was invented for a reason .. and as a medium, it still requires great skill!


~Kim.
requires great skill to do great work. (I think is what you meant)

I do not dis the tools.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:08 PM   #15
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I do not mean that you cannot be "disturbed" and be an artist, it is not a requirement. certainly "afflictions", can lead to "creativity"... though sometimes that is only "absurdity". One must recognize the purpose. If there is no purpose....... pffft... it's just masturbation. Though someone ELSE...could recognize it later and in that recognition is a measure of creativity.



That's exactly what it means to think outside the "box", because in the puzzle from which it derives it's name there really is no "box", only nine dots arranged in a regular box-like pattern. Those who try to work the puzzle within the confines of this arbitrary, non-defined "restriction", cannot solve the puzzle.
In one case, I swear it's from working on something for 5 days straight. I suspect anyone going flat out with no sleep and breathing in oil paint fumes might go slightly insane if they are already headed that way.

ah didn't know it stemmed from this. Thanks!
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #16
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In one case, I swear it's from working on something for 5 days straight. I suspect anyone going flat out with no sleep and breathing in oil paint fumes might go slightly insane if they are already headed that way.

ah didn't know it stemmed from this. Thanks!
Yes, quite a few artists have been though to have been affected by their medium. Van Gogh for instance. There are MANY toxic art materials, especially pigments...like cadmiums, and solvents: lacquer thinner, acetone...ay yii yi... Spray mounts (Central nervous system damage)



That is, indeed the origins. An art director gave me that test back in 1990?
(I did solve it, in the "expected" way...then in many others... including a single mark...think outside of 2 dimensions...or....)
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:23 PM   #17
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Yes, quite a few artists have been though to have been affected by their medium. Van Gogh for instance. There are MANY toxic art materials, especially pigments...like cadmiums, and solvents: lacquer thinner, acetone...ay yii yi... Spray mounts (Central nervous system damage)



That is, indeed the origins. An art director gave me that test back in 1990?
(I did solve it, in the "expected" way...then in many others... including a single mark...think outside of 2 dimensions...or....)
Yes, I have a formaldehyde allergy which limits the materials I can work with. I also use cutting machinery so I cannot be too tired... Solvents I use outside or elsewhere. I avoid many kinds of dye for that reason also I can be accident prone.

Good, I remember solving it long ago but not how, probably did the Z thing, always been into the Mark of Zorro
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #18
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Yes, I have a formaldehyde allergy which limits the materials I can work with. I also use cutting machinery so I cannot be too tired... Solvents I use outside or elsewhere. I avoid many kinds of dye for that reason also I can be accident prone.

Good, I remember solving it long ago but not how, probably did the Z thing, always been into the Mark of Zorro
Tho' it would have been dramatic, I hope you used a pen (which is mightier than the sword, after all).
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:07 AM   #19
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So after this lovely discussion, I saw this:
More Real? Art in the Age of Truthiness

We did a tour of it because I was told that it was not worth doing without one, and I suspect they were correct.
Some pieces were very cool, interesting, some I hate and some I was indifferent to.
After one film, my companion and I turn to each other and said we really should be applying for these grants...
The one of WMD was huge and made a good political point. My favorite was a room with art based on the Mickey Mouse comic where Mickey and Minnie go to an art museum. There was one room outside the exhibit that almost had us going for a bit.

The paintings that looked like photos were beyond uninspiring.

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Old 05-11-2013, 11:32 AM   #20
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So after this lovely discussion, I saw this:
More Real? Art in the Age of Truthiness

We did a tour of it because I was told that it was not worth doing without one, and I suspect they were correct.
Some pieces were very cool, interesting, some I hate and some I was indifferent to.
After one film, my companion and I turn to each other and said we really should be applying for these grants...
The one of WMD was huge and made a good political point. My favorite was a room with art based on the Mickey Mouse comic where Mickey and Minnie go to an art museum. There was one room outside the exhibit that almost had us going for a bit.

The paintings that looked like photos were beyond uninspiring.
Thanks! I'll have to check it out later.

(you may need to remove the backslash / from the end of the link.)

http://www.artsmia.org/more-real/preview.html
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:44 PM   #21
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Thanks! I'll have to check it out later.

(you may need to remove the backslash / from the end of the link.)

http://www.artsmia.org/more-real/preview.html
Sorry, I should have tested it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:38 PM   #22
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Some say they would pay for that sort of image (a digitally manipulated photo), but some, I feel are just sucking up. (and/or are completely clueless)
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:01 PM   #23
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Some say they would pay for that sort of image (a digitally manipulated photo), but some, I feel are just sucking up. (and/or are completely clueless)
Please explain which photo you are referring to...
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:35 PM   #24
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At the moment I am working with a project about Marcel Duchamp, particularly his 'ready-mades'.

What I like about Duchamp was not that he 'thought outside the box', but that he widened the definition of creative art to include almost everything 'within the box'.

While his contemporaries were exploring various new ways of producing art, such as fauvism and cubism, Duchamp was telling the world "Look at this. It is Art because I say it is. Art is everywhere. You just have to look."

"WOW! That's amazing, it looks just like a urinal." but he calls it a fountain.

Duchamp could draw, could paint, could produce sculpture, but his influence started when he stopped doing that and 'found' Art around him.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:08 AM   #25
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Please explain which photo you are referring to...
I am sure you can find it if need be. Really, it is not important, just imagine a photograph of a naked woman that has been manipulated with photoshop (or some other application) filters, by a woman LITster. The imagine all the suck-up horny men who will lavish praise, either out of complete ignorance, but primarily motivated by the possibility that this woman will be flattered enough to cyber.

call me cynical.
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