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Old 07-02-2010, 07:00 AM   #1
mikey2much
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Under age sex, the biggest taboo

I do not write about people raping kids. I do not write about kids being abused. What I wrote is a story about a man trying to figure out how he got to where he is in his mind.

There is no graphic sex with any child in the story. The whole thing takes place while a guy is driving by himself thinking about why he is like he is. Nobody is in the car with him, only memories.

I write because I want to. I write because I want to get better at it. I write because I have stories I want to share. I try to get my characters to explain why they are doing what they are doing. I think that is important to the story. When this site tells me that a man canít remember in his own head things from his unmolested past then I think the under-age policy has been too strictly enforced.

If I have to consider the guidelines of a censor as I plot a story, and tell it then I am learning how to conform not how to write. The story should be able to come first. I donít see how I can post this story here; I donít think I can explain how the man became who and what he is without some background. That background comes from his childhood and here, on this site, childhood is forbidden.

There seems to be a posse of guys who always come rushing in to tell the writer how wrong he is and to not challenge the rules. I donít know if the site pays them or not. I donít care one way or the other but if they take the side of the site without reading the story and seeing for themselves if there is child porn, then I think they are wrong to open their mouths to me.

Like I said I am no great writer but anybody who trains themselves to write with a self imposed censor in their head is not the sort of writer that I wanted to become anyway.

I would not write something that would bring heat on this site. I like it too much and over the years I have come to feel like I know a lot of the people here. I am not trying to tear anyoneís playhouse down. But if the underage sex thing applies to this story then they are over-reacting in a big way. I had an editor go over this before posting and he never saw a problem with underage sex. I was totally blindsided by this whole uproar. I never saw it coming because the content of the story does not merit it.
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Old 07-02-2010, 08:02 AM   #2
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Okay, I'll bite while I'm waiting for coffee to brew...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
I do not write about people raping kids. I do not write about kids being abused. What I wrote is a story about a man trying to figure out how he got to where he is in his mind.

There is no graphic sex with any child in the story. The whole thing takes place while a guy is driving by himself thinking about why he is like he is. Nobody is in the car with him, only memories.
The fact that the underage sex comes as a flashback is irrelevent. If what you were doing was okay, then everyone who wanted to post an underage sex story would simply begin their story with, "I was driving to work one morning and for no particular reason started remembering the first time I had sex at age 14..."

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Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
I write because I want to. I write because I want to get better at it. I write because I have stories I want to share. I try to get my characters to explain why they are doing what they are doing. I think that is important to the story. When this site tells me that a man canít remember in his own head things from his unmolested past then I think the under-age policy has been too strictly enforced.
Many of us, particularly the folks on this forum, are inclined to agree with you: character motivation is key. Without it, the characters are basically robots. You're a little confused I think on the underage policy. It hasn't been too strictly enforced. It has always been a very simple rule: no underage sexual content. In any form. It's not a question of anyone picking on you or not appreciating the context it's used in the story. Under 18? No nooky. Easy as that.

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Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
If I have to consider the guidelines of a censor as I plot a story, and tell it then I am learning how to conform not how to write. The story should be able to come first. I donít see how I can post this story here; I donít think I can explain how the man became who and what he is without some background. That background comes from his childhood and here, on this site, childhood is forbidden.
Your story can come first. You just need to either keep it on your own computer or post it on any of the thousands of erotic websites that don't have an age minimum. They're out there. The privilege of posting here on Lit comes with a few requirements. There aren't a lot of them and they're not that complicated. No underage sex of any kind is one of them.

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Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
There seems to be a posse of guys who always come rushing in to tell the writer how wrong he is and to not challenge the rules. I donít know if the site pays them or not. I donít care one way or the other but if they take the side of the site without reading the story and seeing for themselves if there is child porn, then I think they are wrong to open their mouths to me.
I don't think I'm part of the posse and I'm certainly not paid. Challenge the rules all you like. We can't read your story because it isn't posted because it doesn't conform. Folks here react this way because we regularly see complaints like yours. You're not breaking new ground here. Every few months, an author who (intentionally or not) thinks they've avoided the underage rule gets rejected and he complains.

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Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
Like I said I am no great writer but anybody who trains themselves to write with a self imposed censor in their head is not the sort of writer that I wanted to become anyway.
Write what you like. Just know that if you want to post it here, you have to play by the rules.

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Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
I would not write something that would bring heat on this site. I like it too much and over the years I have come to feel like I know a lot of the people here. I am not trying to tear anyoneís playhouse down. But if the underage sex thing applies to this story then they are over-reacting in a big way. I had an editor go over this before posting and he never saw a problem with underage sex. I was totally blindsided by this whole uproar. I never saw it coming because the content of the story does not merit it.
The decision as to what would "bring heat on this site" isn't yours to make. Laurel and Manu are protecting a huge time investment, their time and the thousands of authors who post here. That your editor missed the underage issue is a poor reflection on your editor, not the rules here. So is the fact that you were blindsided. The underage rule has been in place for literally decades and there are FAQs describing it in detail that you were encouraged to read when you set up your account.

Okay Mikey, now that we've both said our peace, if you PM me I'll have a look at your story to see if there isn't some way to retool it. Unless it's about underage sex, it's usually possible to avoid this problem.

G'luck,

-PF
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Old 07-02-2010, 08:47 AM   #3
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reasonable response

Thanks for killing the time reading my post while your coffee was being made.
I posted the story on another site but I wanted to post here so the people I respect as writers might see it and let me know what they thought.
In a rash move I posted the story to the story feedback forum. It is the one that is titled story rejected. It has 65 reads and not one reply.

If you have the time give it a look and let me know what you think. There is no underage nooky in it.
mike
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:10 AM   #4
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Exclamation Oh-kay we get it

If we don't want this wonderful web-site to be closed down by the authorities and all the fun stops, then in plain language, do not allude to your characters ever having been young once. The way our westernized civilization treats the pubescent is inhumane, especially males: "No swearing! No crying! No w*mking! No wet dreams! Or the FBI will take mommy and daddy away and you'll never see them again!"

Hey it's not Literotica's fault. Anyway, I'll spare the coffee machine in the US somewhere the overtime ... I've got a SIMPLE idea on how to fix it.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:17 AM   #5
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I can hardly wait

I can hardly wait to hear how we can fix it. The first half of the story deals with him thinking about how he developed into the person he is today. He is on the brink of going into another form of man and he needs to understand how he got here and where he wants to go.

Lay it on me friend. How do we fix it?

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Old 07-02-2010, 09:19 AM   #6
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Red face

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... I've got a SIMPLE idea on how to fix it.
Mmm I looked at it again, and I suppose I could resuscitate it for lit.com but it would be too disappointing. Don't muck with the story anyhow. Make a FINAL COPY and password protect it and delete all the other versions and ask your editors to too so th-e-f-eds don't lock you away without a typewriter. And don't write that sh*t you naughty naughty person you.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:34 AM   #7
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The problem with writing rules is it is difficult to write a half-way rule.

If child rape is strictly forbidden, but other consensual under age sex is allowed, we now have to define child, rape, and consensual, for the purposes of the rule. That is a lot of work for a story which no one will be paid to write, or pay to read.

Under age sex is not the biggest taboo, it's just one of the most difficult to define. After reading the related threads in the past few days, I realize several of my stories have scenes of adolescent sex. None were ever rejected.

I went back and reviewed the stories again, just to see how it was done. Each scene is a memory evoked by something currently happening. All the characters are adults, but their age is never stated. The reader can infer their present age and the age of the remembered event from the situation.

"Romeo and Juliet" could not be posted on Lit.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:45 AM   #8
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Whoa

Hookay, I looked at it and wowie. This is far, far, far from my cup of tea, but here's my thought.

Your introduction starts out interesting, almost poetic, but strays a little too long. To my eye, it becomes a tangent that is distracting from the real story which is Johnny's self-realizing "adventure."

Consider deleting paragraphs 3-10. They're the ones that start, "Then puberty strkes!" and, "As you learn more about sex..."

With paragraphs 3-10 gone, see how the notions of what happens in the dark from paragraph 2 would link up with the same idea in paragraph 11? I honestly think your story reads better this way, cleaner, more focused.

Again, not my cup of tea. And whoever edited this thing either didn't do such a great job or you ignored their advice or you added after their edit. You've got more than a few basic errors.

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Old 07-02-2010, 09:50 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by stonepretender View Post
Mmm I looked at it again, and I suppose I could resuscitate it for lit.com but it would be too disappointing. Don't muck with the story anyhow. Make a FINAL COPY and password protect it and delete all the other versions and ask your editors to too so th-e-f-eds don't lock you away without a typewriter. And don't write that sh*t you naughty naughty person you.
lits rules have nothing to do with federal law. writing fictional accounts of underage sex are not illegal. it's, for lack of better words, a moral decision on lits part and while i have no problem with stories involving teenagers younger than 18 i can totally understand why they have the rule in place and i'm happy with it if only because it makes lit one of the few places on the net were i don't have to worry about accidentally opening stories involving 8 year olds.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:52 AM   #10
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also, i'm not in the mood to read your story, but if there really is no graphic underage sex in the story try adding a disclaimer to the beginning and see if that works. i've had to do so in the past and that usually did the job.
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:10 AM   #11
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Post *bruise*

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...And whoever edited this thing either didn't do such a great job or you ignored their advice or you added after their edit. You've got more than a few basic errors.-PF
Let's go with "...didn't do such a great job..." and then perhaps you'd be as helpful as to highlight [most of] the errors?

Thanks
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:24 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
I do not write about people raping kids. I do not write about kids being abused. What I wrote is a story about a man trying to figure out how he got to where he is in his mind.

There is no graphic sex with any child in the story. The whole thing takes place while a guy is driving by himself thinking about why he is like he is. Nobody is in the car with him, only memories.

I write because I want to. I write because I want to get better at it. I write because I have stories I want to share. I try to get my characters to explain why they are doing what they are doing. I think that is important to the story. When this site tells me that a man canít remember in his own head things from his unmolested past then I think the under-age policy has been too strictly enforced.

If I have to consider the guidelines of a censor as I plot a story, and tell it then I am learning how to conform not how to write. The story should be able to come first. I donít see how I can post this story here; I donít think I can explain how the man became who and what he is without some background. That background comes from his childhood and here, on this site, childhood is forbidden.

There seems to be a posse of guys who always come rushing in to tell the writer how wrong he is and to not challenge the rules. I donít know if the site pays them or not. I donít care one way or the other but if they take the side of the site without reading the story and seeing for themselves if there is child porn, then I think they are wrong to open their mouths to me.

Like I said I am no great writer but anybody who trains themselves to write with a self imposed censor in their head is not the sort of writer that I wanted to become anyway.

I would not write something that would bring heat on this site. I like it too much and over the years I have come to feel like I know a lot of the people here. I am not trying to tear anyoneís playhouse down. But if the underage sex thing applies to this story then they are over-reacting in a big way. I had an editor go over this before posting and he never saw a problem with underage sex. I was totally blindsided by this whole uproar. I never saw it coming because the content of the story does not merit it.
Just what part of no sexual activity with characters under the age of 18 don't you quite understand? Is it that hard of a concept to grasp?

Did you ever PM Laurel to find out exactly why they rejected your story? I'm guessing no, and you'd sooner continue throwing your pity party on multiple threads in multiple forums.

If you don't like the rules here, there's plenty of sites that allow under 18 sexual activity.
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:45 AM   #13
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There's a missing period between "sex-life" and "You."

The "parents expectations" should be "parents' expectations."

"After effects" is one word.

There's a missing word "be" in the sentence containing "...you begin to wonder what it feels like..."

Subject-verb agreement error at "they are the master" should be "they are the masters."

Jarring mixed metaphor: "...dislodge this train of thought...."

That's just what I found in a quick re-skim of the first quarter of the story. It didn't get any better after that grammatically speaking.

As far as the rest of it went, I do remember goofed proper nouns. The capitalization applied and not-applied to "Father" was incorrect. Check a Chicago for that, e.g., "my father" doesn't get capitalized. "Thanks Father," does get capitalized. The same problem appeared with usage of "slut" and "biker."

There was also some poor use of exclamation points. As far as I'm concerned, all of them should be yanked.

A better editor would have raised some word choice and content issues too.

Interesting that you asked for the particulars, stone. You wouldn't be the fella who edited this thing would you?

If you were, don't take it as a slight. Based on the writing, I wouldn't be surprised if the initial draft was a grammatical disaster and you (or someone else) caught 99% of them but let the last percent through.

S'ok, we're volunteers.

-PF
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:01 PM   #14
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Talking *withdraws gracefully*

Ah! Thank the gods! I thought you were going to point out something glaringly embarrassing. Most of those are just typo's. Sorry about that. Perhaps a Copy Editor should go over my stuff after I have FIXED it.

What is with everyone's caustic attitudes on this site? Please be careful: If you read / write / edit more erotica than you have sex, you're likely to become horny and irritable!

I haven't been around here for very long yet, but bitchiness and sarcasm abound here, hey!! hahahahaha

shoo-ey

Note: I am not American, and follow different punctuating norms, and apart from exclamation points, I really put colons (pun intended) and semi-colons through their paces.
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:29 PM   #15
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by stonepretender View Post
Ah! Thank the gods! I thought you were going to point out something glaringly embarrassing. Most of those are just typo's. Sorry about that. Perhaps a Copy Editor should go over my stuff after I have FIXED it.

What is with everyone's caustic attitudes on this site? Please be careful: If you read / write / edit more erotica than you have sex, you're likely to become horny and irritable!

I haven't been around here for very long yet, but bitchiness and sarcasm abound here, hey!! hahahahaha

shoo-ey

Note: I am not American, and follow different punctuating norms, and apart from exclamation points, I really put colons (pun intended) and semi-colons through their paces.
Your mix of surprise and confusion, albeit good natured, baffles me. We're on the Editor's Forum. People who care about English hang out here. Surprised?

If you edited this story and don't care about the assorted errors left behind, then good for you I guess. I suspect it's a happier life you lead. Still, let's not gloss over the errors as typos. There was poor grammar afoot whether you wish to admit it or not.

-PF
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:51 PM   #17
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Ten Paragraphs

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The problem with writing rules is it is difficult to write a half-way rule.

If child rape is strictly forbidden, but other consensual under age sex is allowed, we now have to define child, rape, and consensual, for the purposes of the rule. That is a lot of work for a story which no one will be paid to write, or pay to read.

Under age sex is not the biggest taboo, it's just one of the most difficult to define. After reading the related threads in the past few days, I realize several of my stories have scenes of adolescent sex. None were ever rejected.

I went back and reviewed the stories again, just to see how it was done. Each scene is a memory evoked by something currently happening. All the characters are adults, but their age is never stated. The reader can infer their present age and the age of the remembered event from the situation.

"Romeo and Juliet" could not be posted on Lit.
DKMoon seems to want everything in black and white, yet you say there are times when you can provide that background that is so important. All the possible underage sex takes place in ten short paragraphs. The story is on the story feedback forum under rejected story.

I can see what they are talking about but it seemed more like passing scenery than storyline to me.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:01 PM   #18
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DKMoon seems to want everything in black and white, yet you say there are times when you can provide that background that is so important. All the possible underage sex takes place in ten short paragraphs. The story is on the story feedback forum under rejected story.

I can see what they are talking about but it seemed more like passing scenery than storyline to me.
Go to the FAQ's. These are the rules of the people who own the site.

Basically, our biggest requirement is that we do not accept any story in which characters under the age of 18 are involved in sexual situations.

Tell me, what part of that escapes you? And for the fourth time, have you asked Laurel for an explanation?
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:01 PM   #19
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We can't read your story because it isn't posted because it doesn't conform.
Actually, the main point here is that we can read his story--because, after it was rejected from the story file, he posted the text to the forum (the Feedback page), taking it upon himself to make his own rules for what can and cannot be published on Literotica.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:02 PM   #20
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Actually, the main point here is that we can read his story--because, after it was rejected from the story file, he posted the text to the forum (the Feedback page), taking it upon himself to make his own rules for what can and cannot be published on Literotica.
True. I reported the post. I trust you did too, SR.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:06 PM   #21
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True. I reported the post. I trust you did too, SR.
No, I just asked him, politely, I think, to delete the text--after telling him it was a well-written story (and, actually, it's something that could fly in the mainstream, which isn't under the degree of scrutiny that sites like this are). He hasn't done so. Does that tell you something about this guy?
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:09 PM   #22
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No, I just asked him, politely, I think, to delete the text--after telling him it was a well-written story (and, actually, it's something that could fly in the mainstream, which isn't under the degree of scrutiny that sites like this are). He hasn't done so. Does that tell you something about this guy?
Yepper-doodles.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:20 PM   #23
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Your mix of surprise and confusion, albeit good natured, baffles me. We're on the Editor's Forum. People who care about English hang out here. Surprised?

If you edited this story and don't care about the assorted errors left behind, then good for you I guess. I suspect it's a happier life you lead. Still, let's not gloss over the errors as typos. There was poor grammar afoot whether you wish to admit it or not.

Calm thyself..
I do the best I can. I spell check I go over a story so many times that I am sick of it before I get someelse to go over it again. Like I said I do the best I can. It ain'r perfect but if it was you couldn't afford it anyway. So I go back to the beginning, I don' thin the story should have been rejected because of underage sex since the sex does not occur except in the barest of mentions.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:27 PM   #24
mikey2much
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Iam taking the story down

I guess the nail that raises its head is the one that draws the hammer. I will drop my head a bit and put my story under my arm and shuffle off.

I will hope for better luck when I post my next story
It is a cross between 'Huckberry Finn' and the 'Happy Hooker' set in the crackhead wonderland of the 'Big Bend area of Florida.

No kids and no memories just random acts of cheap sex., I should have no trouble with it.

mike
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey2much View Post
I guess the nail that raises its head is the one that draws the hammer. I will drop my head a bit and put my story under my arm and shuffle off.

I will hope for better luck when I post my next story
It is a cross between 'Huckberry Finn' and the 'Happy Hooker' set in the crackhead wonderland of the 'Big Bend area of Florida.

No kids and no memories just random acts of cheap sex., I should have no trouble with it.

mike
A lot of people submit stories here and manage to get them approved and posted.

I don't see why you are having such a problem.
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