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Old 05-19-2010, 02:17 PM   #126
Netzach
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Ahem. I'm dominant. PIV sex isn't an orgasmic experience for me in itself, but it's one I happen to like a lot. It's intimate and hot and if your notion of sexual pleasure is a running tally of who has the most orgasms I guess you're right, but most people aren't like that. Most men I've met aren't even like that.
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Old 05-19-2010, 02:29 PM   #127
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Ahem. I'm dominant. PIV sex isn't an orgasmic experience for me in itself, but it's one I happen to like a lot. It's intimate and hot and if your notion of sexual pleasure is a running tally of who has the most orgasms I guess you're right, but most people aren't like that. Most men I've met aren't even like that.
<threadjack> One thing I love about this forum? There are people on it that are more knowledgeable than me, and whom I can trust to say my mind for me. </threadjack>
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Old 05-19-2010, 02:40 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
<threadjack> One thing I love about this forum? There are people on it that are more knowledgeable than me, and whom I can trust to say my mind for me. </threadjack>
Succinct maybe, but I *really* don't think I'm more knowledgeable than you are.
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Old 05-19-2010, 03:15 PM   #129
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Succinct maybe, but I *really* don't think I'm more knowledgeable than you are.
Certainly in some areas!
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:58 PM   #130
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umm did you take a wrong turn somewhere? on this board you will find many submissive women, and hetero submissive women tend to thrive on their male partner taking "his pleasure" with our bodies.

besides that, uh, intercourse is freaking fantastic!!! life without it would suck, royally.
Okay, let me clarify. I'm a submissive woman too, but there's a line (for me at least, and for most other women I know) between submitting and letting someone do things that are really damaging to your health and wellbeing.

Also, I'm not saying that no woman can enjoy intercourse. If you like it, great. I'm just surprised that it's such a widespread sexual choice and considered to be so important and pivotal, even among non-submissive women, when there are so many different, more pleasurable, safer choices out there.
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:01 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Certainly in some areas!
I like the quote after your replies - is that your own thoughts or did you get it from somwhere else?
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:13 PM   #132
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People are funny that way.

One thing we aren't talking about here, but I'm sure we all know-- is that the physical closeness and contact, are extremely pleasurable in of themselves. Also, you are hearing a lot of submissive women in this convo, and they have all of them said that their Dom's pleasure is paramount to them.

You can trust them on that one.

For the rest of us-- yep. I can orgasm in many other ways rather than through intercourse. But for my male partner, that's the way I'd rather go.
I can definitely see the appeal from a closeness and contact point of view. But still, for me personally, even that's not worth all the worries and risks. Maybe I'm just not ready for the emotional intensity of a relationship that comes from that level of closeness and contact.
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:43 PM   #133
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Damn, satin, nice ass.

I want
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:05 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Belle966 View Post
Okay, let me clarify. I'm a submissive woman too, but there's a line (for me at least, and for most other women I know) between submitting and letting someone do things that are really damaging to your health and wellbeing.

Also, I'm not saying that no woman can enjoy intercourse. If you like it, great. I'm just surprised that it's such a widespread sexual choice and considered to be so important and pivotal, even among non-submissive women, when there are so many different, more pleasurable, safer choices out there.
If I found the other options to be always more pleasurable I'd opt for them. I'm no one's martyr.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:16 AM   #135
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I like the quote after your replies - is that your own thoughts or did you get it from somwhere else?
That is the best aphorism the Rabbi Hillel ever coined.

I am atheist, in case you were wondering. I read it on the label of a bottle of Doctor Bronner's Peppermint Castile soap, decades ago, and it's stayed with me all my life.
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If I found the other options to be always more pleasurable I'd opt for them. I'm no one's martyr.
See? SEE? See how smart you are?

In fact, I would even add; When I find other options to be more pleasurable, I opt for them.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:38 AM   #136
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Intercourse isn't exactly a "worry" for me. Poly-fi quad, one man, three women, all of whom are clean, and the dude shoots blanks. Also, I happen to like it a LOT, so I'm not really putting myself out when I engage in it. Different people have different reasons for doing things.
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Old 05-20-2010, 03:04 PM   #137
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[quote=Stella_Omega;34156259]That is the best aphorism the Rabbi Hillel ever coined.

I am atheist, in case you were wondering. I read it on the label of a bottle of Doctor Bronner's Peppermint Castile soap, decades ago, and it's stayed with me all my life.

Interesting - I googeled Rabi Hillel as I'm no expert in jewish religion and found he had a very interesting story, which led me to other paths and....two hours later still reading, so that's what comes from Doctor Bronner's soap - not only my two hours of revelation but also a long part of your life - Lit sometimes bring you to strange and new places which makes it very interesting to be here...
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:08 AM   #138
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Just as a postscript, the peppermint soap is real fun to wash your genitals with.
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:37 AM   #139
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Taken Forcefully

I personally enjoy being taken forcefully provided I know im safe.
I've been tied to the bed and taken forcefully, I been shoved up against a wall and taken and loved all of it.
But in saying that too, I sometimes also like gentle slow love making.

I guess it depends on my mood, my arousal and my partner at the time.
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:25 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
If I found the other options to be always more pleasurable I'd opt for them. I'm no one's martyr.
Socialization doesn't work like that. You can believe you're making a free choice when actually it's one that's been drilled into you by society since birth.

Again, I'm not saying intercourse isn't pleasurable. I'm saying it's not pleasurable enough to be worth the risks it carries for women.
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:45 PM   #141
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Socialization doesn't work like that. You can believe you're making a free choice when actually it's one that's been drilled into you by society since birth.

Again, I'm not saying intercourse isn't pleasurable. I'm saying it's not pleasurable enough to be worth the risks it carries for women.
a life without risks is not a life worth living, imho. also the reality is we 2-legged mammalians were built for all-purpose scrumping. our drive for intercourse is not limited to procreation, and this drive is something which exists in both the males and females of our species. as a female without an especially high sex drive, i happen to ADORE intercourse and would find a sex life without very depressing. i am also certain that these activities you believe are universally "more pleasurable for women" would be quite unpleasant for me.

it seems to me Belle that your rather extreme (imo) concerns over the "risks" of intercourse speak to some very personal issues you may have with heterosexual sex, men, or both. which is your bag and you have every right to own it...but you do not speak for "women," you speak only for yourself.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:31 AM   #142
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a life without risks is not a life worth living, imho. also the reality is we 2-legged mammalians were built for all-purpose scrumping. our drive for intercourse is not limited to procreation, and this drive is something which exists in both the males and females of our species. as a female without an especially high sex drive, i happen to ADORE intercourse and would find a sex life without very depressing. i am also certain that these activities you believe are universally "more pleasurable for women" would be quite unpleasant for me.

it seems to me Belle that your rather extreme (imo) concerns over the "risks" of intercourse speak to some very personal issues you may have with heterosexual sex, men, or both. which is your bag and you have every right to own it...but you do not speak for "women," you speak only for yourself.
I admit that I have some personal issues with sex, pregnancy etc. and I know that all women won't share them. But on a social/political level, just looking at the language we use to describe intercourse shows that we as a society see it as a male-active, male-dominant activity.

Perhaps the reason that you like intercourse so much is that your sexuality involves being submissive and catering to male pleasure. Simply the fact that you enjoy it shows that it must be a male-dominant activity, since you don't enjoy those that focus on female pleasure, right?

My confusion is mainly with women who like to be equal/dominant in sex, yet still have intercourse on a regular basis. I can only think that this comes from deeply ingrained male-centered social processes, which teach us that "real sex" = intercourse. Which might be okay for you, but other women should have different options.

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Old 05-23-2010, 01:26 PM   #143
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I admit that I have some personal issues with sex, pregnancy etc. and I know that all women won't share them. But on a social/political level, just looking at the language we use to describe intercourse shows that we as a society see it as a male-active, male-dominant activity.
It seems to me from the language you use in this quote, that you have actively internalized society's perspectives. (The use of the word "we" to signify the people who view intercourse as male-dominant.)

Why not free yourself from this perspective, even if you can't free society?

Quote:
Perhaps the reason that you like intercourse so much is that your sexuality involves being submissive and catering to male pleasure. Simply the fact that you enjoy it shows that it must be a male-dominant activity, since you don't enjoy those that focus on female pleasure, right?
I think this makes sense, in this case.

Quote:
My confusion is mainly with women who like to be equal/dominant in sex, yet still have intercourse on a regular basis. I can only think that this comes from deeply ingrained male-centered social processes, which teach us that "real sex" = intercourse.
Notice that intercourse is not male dominant in nature, only in nurture. Dominant/equal women who have intercourse in that manner do not view it in the way that you say most people view it, and they should not have to. Intercourse isn't only for the male, you know. And I don't mean psychologically, in a vicarious sort of way. So I see no cause for confusion.

Quote:
Which might be okay for you, but other women should have different options.
Obviously, they should have different options, and hopefully, they do and will continue to do so. Heterosexual intercourse is certainly an unhealthy fixation in our culture, but that doesn't make it worse than any other sexual practice.

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Old 05-23-2010, 02:21 PM   #144
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Belle, I have much the same reaction-- it's been decades since I have felt like engaging with new male partners in any hetero-normative way. At the same time, there are some men that I do fuck-- in the missionary position as often as not. So I straddle this fence. I have both an attraction to and a repulsion for men-- my reaction depends on the person.
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Originally Posted by Belle966 View Post
I admit that I have some personal issues with sex, pregnancy etc. and I know that all women won't share them. But on a social/political level, just looking at the language we use to describe intercourse shows that we as a society see it as a male-active, male-dominant activity.
I'd say that depends on who is speaking. It's true that it's very easy to speak of fucking in male-active, female-passive terms, but it's equally easy to flip that right around.
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Perhaps the reason that you like intercourse so much is that your sexuality involves being submissive and catering to male pleasure. Simply the fact that you enjoy it shows that it must be a male-dominant activity, since you don't enjoy those that focus on female pleasure, right?
right-- ownedsubgal is an example of one kind of preference. She enjoys het sex in its male-dominant aspect. Many other women enjoy PIV type fucking in other aspects.
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My confusion is mainly with women who like to be equal/dominant in sex, yet still have intercourse on a regular basis. I can only think that this comes from deeply ingrained male-centered social processes, which teach us that "real sex" = intercourse.
That's a funny kind of confusion. I would say that you are trying to force the data to fit your theory, rather than looking at the data and believing what it tells you.

The fact that many women who like to be equal or dominant do enjoy fucking men ought to tell you that it's perfectly possible to do so without compromising one's needs. Instead of assuming they are lying to themselves, you should be finding out what might make fucking an egalitarian activity.
Quote:
Which might be okay for you, but other women should have different options.
And so they should. And they do. More than ever now, thanks to the internet, and what a relief that is!
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:38 PM   #145
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Sometimes a woman enjoys knowing that you're so aroused by her, that your animal side takes over. It's not so much a submissive thing as confirmation that she can turn you on to that degree.

Other times, a woman's just a submissive slut and wants you to use her as a fuck toy.
Either one works for me.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:43 PM   #146
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I admit that I have some personal issues with sex, pregnancy etc. and I know that all women won't share them. But on a social/political level, just looking at the language we use to describe intercourse shows that we as a society see it as a male-active, male-dominant activity.

Perhaps the reason that you like intercourse so much is that your sexuality involves being submissive and catering to male pleasure. Simply the fact that you enjoy it shows that it must be a male-dominant activity, since you don't enjoy those that focus on female pleasure, right?

My confusion is mainly with women who like to be equal/dominant in sex, yet still have intercourse on a regular basis. I can only think that this comes from deeply ingrained male-centered social processes, which teach us that "real sex" = intercourse. Which might be okay for you, but other women should have different options.
you have arrived at some rather narrow conclusions here, about "society," about "women" as some monolithic entity, and about me individually.

Stella_Omega is right, how one views intercourse (or any other form of sex for that matter) depends very much on where one is standing. you clearly seem to view PIV sex as an activity centered on male pleasure. some women view it quite the opposite, as an activity focused on THEIR arousal and pleasure. some women view it as a pleasant physical expression of their love for a male partner. some women view it as a tool of manipulation and control, a way to force their partner to bend knee. believe it or not, some women just view it as a feel good fun erotic activity. and on, and on, and on.

speaking for myself only, i enjoy intercourse for many reasons...yes, because i happen to be submissive i relish the feelings of helplessness, of being conquered, that it can cause. but i do not experience these feelings as an automatic result of intercourse itself...it must be with a man who is of a dominant or aggressive nature, so that the intercourse itself takes place in the manner with which i'm most comfortable. many times i've had very negative and awkward intercourse experiences with men who happen to enjoy the act in a manner which would allow them to be more passive, or to be in some way catering to my desires. MANY times, with many men. i cannot enjoy that type of intercourse. but a great deal of women, not so submissively wired, can and do.


this is simply not one of those black and white things. one cannot say "intercourse means X," "women enjoy Y." it is as complex and varied as the individuals themselves. you also seem to be unaware of the fact that many women find a great deal of purely physical pleasure in the act of intercourse. i am one of those women...with the right partner, not only am i enjoying the psychological aspects of being dominated, but i am enjoying the sensation of being penetrated, the rhythm of his thrusts, the throbbing of his cock, etc. it is okay if you personally cannot relate to taking pleasure in such things, but please do not deny that such pleasure (again, purely physical) can exist.


(oh and btw, i do not believe that "real sex" is limited to intercourse...any form of genital penetration, by finger or tongue or penis or dildo, by one person to another, counts as "real sex" in my book).
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:06 PM   #147
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you have arrived at some rather narrow conclusions here, about "society," about "women" as some monolithic entity, and about me individually.

Stella_Omega is right, how one views intercourse (or any other form of sex for that matter) depends very much on where one is standing. you clearly seem to view PIV sex as an activity centered on male pleasure. some women view it quite the opposite, as an activity focused on THEIR arousal and pleasure. some women view it as a pleasant physical expression of their love for a male partner. some women view it as a tool of manipulation and control, a way to force their partner to bend knee. believe it or not, some women just view it as a feel good fun erotic activity. and on, and on, and on.

speaking for myself only, i enjoy intercourse for many reasons...yes, because i happen to be submissive i relish the feelings of helplessness, of being conquered, that it can cause. but i do not experience these feelings as an automatic result of intercourse itself...it must be with a man who is of a dominant or aggressive nature, so that the intercourse itself takes place in the manner with which i'm most comfortable. many times i've had very negative and awkward intercourse experiences with men who happen to enjoy the act in a manner which would allow them to be more passive, or to be in some way catering to my desires. MANY times, with many men. i cannot enjoy that type of intercourse. but a great deal of women, not so submissively wired, can and do.


this is simply not one of those black and white things. one cannot say "intercourse means X," "women enjoy Y." it is as complex and varied as the individuals themselves. you also seem to be unaware of the fact that many women find a great deal of purely physical pleasure in the act of intercourse. i am one of those women...with the right partner, not only am i enjoying the psychological aspects of being dominated, but i am enjoying the sensation of being penetrated, the rhythm of his thrusts, the throbbing of his cock, etc. it is okay if you personally cannot relate to taking pleasure in such things, but please do not deny that such pleasure (again, purely physical) can exist.

(oh and btw, i do not believe that "real sex" is limited to intercourse...any form of genital penetration, by finger or tongue or penis or dildo, by one person to another, counts as "real sex" in my book).
Thank you. I was trying to figure out how to convey this sentiment witout getting nasty or preachy... you accomplished that in spades!

It is with great pleasure I say- "What she said!!" ^^
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:32 PM   #148
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Socialization doesn't work like that. You can believe you're making a free choice when actually it's one that's been drilled into you by society since birth.

Again, I'm not saying intercourse isn't pleasurable. I'm saying it's not pleasurable enough to be worth the risks it carries for women.
So I'm buying into the socialization more than you, riiiight. I can't just like shit, because I like something you don't - therefore I must be more vulnerable to being duped into it.

The fact that I've gotten as much out of sex with women, and that preferred sex is often with myself - nope. I have NO IDEA what I like, it's just the damn patriarchy chip at work.

This attitude, based on YOUR lack of enjoyment with an activity, is just as toxic as compelling women to like intercourse if they don't. You'll cite pregnancy and disease, but when women are sick of being told what fucking has to mean to them by other women and give feminism the shove, you'll complain about them.

I've done things with female lovers that result in her orgasm and not mine like allthefuckingtime (and enjoyed that)- but in that case it's more OK, right?
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:46 PM   #149
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hmm...my love of cock is socialization. What is my love of pussy and sex with women? My "real" desires coming to the surface? I really do like both. I love the feeling of being filled with a cock and love the feeling of a womans body with mine.

I also like man's fingers, mouths, toes, ears, lips, teeth...and those on women too.

I don't know. At some point, I just had to tell myself, "hey, you know what? if you like chocolate because you've been told you like chocolate, but you still want that fucking chocolate to be melting in your mouth...enjoy the damn chocolate. Try the jolly rancher too, but don't give up on the chocolate just to stick it to the man. The man doesn't give a fuck."
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:52 PM   #150
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I find that almost all femdom manuals in which having my pussy licked is the ne plus ultra of sex and when it comes to penetration I must scoff - is a fantasy frequented by submissive males. Who don't get to dictate my sexuality either, ew.
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