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Old 02-10-2016, 07:24 AM   #1
xxxSubSamxxx
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What's the priority with you? The BDSM or the relationship?

For me having a healthy close relationship is more important than the BDSM. I think that BDSM is just part of the sexual intimacy that is between a couple.

Is love more important than BDSM? I think if you really love someone then you won't ask of them what they can't do and you won't feel deprived if you truly love them. This is just me though.

I would rather be in a loving vanilla relationship that be a sub to multiple Doms who don't love me or don't really know me very well. I do crave to submit to a powerful Dom, but it's only part of what I want.

What is your priority? The BDSM or the real relationship?

Sam xx
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:57 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by xxxSubSamxxx View Post
I would rather be in a loving vanilla relationship that be a sub to multiple Doms who don't love me or don't really know me very well. I do crave to submit to a powerful Dom, but it's only part of what I want.

What is your priority? The BDSM or the real relationship?
It doesn't work this way.

BDSM is not just one single need, neither does a relationship just satisfy a single need. The desire to impress others, the desire to control your environment, the desire to avoid harm, the desire to overcome obstacles, the desire to help, the desire to break free from constraints.. all these and much more form our system of needs. And you can't just determine that a loving relationship satisfies all these needs and BDSM just adds some spanking. This might be true for some rare cases, but usually is not.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:02 AM   #3
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I was in a loving, vanilla relationship for years and I got to the point near the end in which I was prepared to cheat to get my needs met. It wasn't just that my partner was vanilla, he was disgusted by the idea of the tiniest of steps into kink. I shared fantasies with him and was told I was weird, disturbing. It wasn't enough. I now know I would rather not be in a relationship than be in one that doesn't embrace some level of kink.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:15 AM   #4
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Thanks Primalex and ToPleaseHim,

You both make very good points and I have never thought of it that way. I suppose my need for BDSM is not as great as others need for it. I suppose you could say it's on a spectrum.

In reality we all need to find what is best for us and our partner as individuals as we are all unique and our needs define who we are.

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Old 02-10-2016, 08:24 AM   #5
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Yeaaaahhhh... Doesn't work that way.

I need (want, deserve) is a healthy, balanced, fulfilling relationship. And being put in an either/or situation doesn't benefit the relationship I need, want and deserve. There is no either/or.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:55 AM   #6
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I see your point CutieMouse and in an ideal world it's never a case of either/or, and for some lucky people they have it all.

But when it comes down to it searching for that ideal could take a lifetime and one could end up wasting their life looking and end up with nothing. So we need to assess the reality of what is truly the priority.

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Old 02-10-2016, 08:59 AM   #7
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I already swapped out one aspect of my sexual expression for a life with G. ( and I carefully choose the word swap over gave up) This is something that while I lead the want, we are exploring together. If he said it was not ok for him ...it would not be ok, and there is a rub...because while I don't see myself as that much subservient, is that sub in itself? Its like a circle in a circle.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:10 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Gianbattista View Post
I already swapped out one aspect of my sexual expression for a life with G. ( and I carefully choose the word swap over gave up) This is something that while I lead the want, we are exploring together. If he said it was not ok for him ...it would not be ok, and there is a rub...because while I don't see myself as that much subservient, is that sub in itself? Its like a circle in a circle.

Thanks Gianbattista, I expected something like that from you. We can't always have our own way and compromising means you have gained something from G. Compromise can sometimes be a very good thing, but settling for something that makes you unhappy is completely different

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Old 02-10-2016, 10:44 AM   #9
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When I met my husband (a little more than 35 years ago) neither of us even knew anything about BDSM. When we started dating I fell in love with him immediately. Our love was playful, open to new ideas, and adventurous. In short time we built up a trust where we felt safe sharing any and all fantasies knowing that the other would not judge us. They may not share the fantasy, and there have been times where we may have been turned off by the other's kinks but never disgusted.

That openness along with our deep love with each other is the priority. My husband is not into BDSM, but he is okay with me being in a BDSM relationship with someone else.

My dominant and I have been together for over 10 years now. We are deeply in love with each other. We have also weathered many challenges. At times the BDSM part of the relationship has not been very apparent. But the mindset--the fact that I am his property and I will obey his wishes-will always be there.

At times I miss the energy, the struggles, the emotional upheavals of our early years as I was learning how to be the submissive he desired me to be. But as he has said recently I am exactly what he wants me to be right now and I please him greatly.

With his encouragement and permission he allowed me a couple of years ago to seek out a girlfriend. I met a wonderful woman and that has developed into a D/s relationship with myself as the dominant. I get to scratch that BDSM itch but in a different way that keeps me also submissive to my D.

The relationship is always more important than the BDSM, but it's nice when everyone is open enough to allow flexibility to seek out additional relationships.
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:50 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by xxxSubSamxxx View Post
I see your point CutieMouse and in an ideal world it's never a case of either/or, and for some lucky people they have it all.

But when it comes down to it searching for that ideal could take a lifetime and one could end up wasting their life looking and end up with nothing. So we need to assess the reality of what is truly the priority.

Sam xx
Except that I don't believe it is beneficial to sit in an ivory awaiting that perfect, glowing, idealized relationship. I married young (to the wrong person), and have had multiple relationships over the last dozen years of"being single".

Every adult relationship I have had, has taught me something about what I did (and didn't) want/need/deserve in relationships. To be a little old and calculating about it - every relationship (especially the failed ones) served a purpose. I'm I'm in a better position now to have that "ideal" relationship, than I have been previously.

Yes, finding a good"fit" takes time. One could even (somewhat accurately) argue that it's taken TWENTY FIVE YEARS to find my current partner. In part, because it's taken25 years to get a solid grasping what an "ideal" relationship looks like [for me].
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:56 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by ecstaticsub View Post
When I met my husband (a little more than 35 years ago) neither of us even knew anything about BDSM. When we started dating I fell in love with him immediately. Our love was playful, open to new ideas, and adventurous. In short time we built up a trust where we felt safe sharing any and all fantasies knowing that the other would not judge us. They may not share the fantasy, and there have been times where we may have been turned off by the other's kinks but never disgusted.

That openness along with our deep love with each other is the priority. My husband is not into BDSM, but he is okay with me being in a BDSM relationship with someone else.

My dominant and I have been together for over 10 years now. We are deeply in love with each other. We have also weathered many challenges. At times the BDSM part of the relationship has not been very apparent. But the mindset--the fact that I am his property and I will obey his wishes-will always be there.

At times I miss the energy, the struggles, the emotional upheavals of our early years as I was learning how to be the submissive he desired me to be. But as he has said recently I am exactly what he wants me to be right now and I please him greatly.

With his encouragement and permission he allowed me a couple of years ago to seek out a girlfriend. I met a wonderful woman and that has developed into a D/s relationship with myself as the dominant. I get to scratch that BDSM itch but in a different way that keeps me also submissive to my D.

The relationship is always more important than the BDSM, but it's nice when everyone is open enough to allow flexibility to seek out additional relationships.
Thank you for your openness and your points. I appreciate them very much
Sam xx
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:24 PM   #12
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Agree with Primalex et al. I cannot separate it, and I have tried. My "picture" of a loving relationship includes bruises and bites, screams and shivers. It's part of what I need to feel loved.

Like ToPleaseHim, I was married vanilla for 13 years. I about crawled out of my skin during the last few years. I asked him for mild things and he did try, but I swear he's more sub than I am. I met Master online during those last, turbulent months, and I knew almost from the start that he was the part of me that I was missing so much.

Now, it's not like I'm in chains, on my knees, every waking moment. For us it's the dynamic as much as the physical expression. Even when he was in the hospital last year, too weak to swing a flogger, I was still serving him and we both knew it.

I couldn't be in a casual BDSM relationship. I'm just not wired that way. But, in truth, the loving aspect could, possibly, be more of an option than a necessity. I get more satisfaction from being used and knowing that I am serving well, than being cuddled and romanced in the usual sense.
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Old 02-10-2016, 01:53 PM   #13
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Agree with Primalex et al. I cannot separate it, and I have tried. My "picture" of a loving relationship includes bruises and bites, screams and shivers. It's part of what I need to feel loved.

Like ToPleaseHim, I was married vanilla for 13 years. I about crawled out of my skin during the last few years. I asked him for mild things and he did try, but I swear he's more sub than I am. I met Master online during those last, turbulent months, and I knew almost from the start that he was the part of me that I was missing so much.

Now, it's not like I'm in chains, on my knees, every waking moment. For us it's the dynamic as much as the physical expression. Even when he was in the hospital last year, too weak to swing a flogger, I was still serving him and we both knew it.

I couldn't be in a casual BDSM relationship. I'm just not wired that way. But, in truth, the loving aspect could, possibly, be more of an option than a necessity. I get more satisfaction from being used and knowing that I am serving well, than being cuddled and romanced in the usual sense.
I totally get this. I haven't been married but I've been in vanilla relationships and I'm in one now in fact but currently talking to someone who gets my sub side, who understands that part of me more then my partner can now and I didn't realise how much I missed that or needed that.

You're spot on that it doesn't mean you're in chains 24/7, there's so much more to submission and the power someone can have over you.

Agreed with your last statement, so much!

In short, you're spot on :-) haha
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Old 02-10-2016, 01:56 PM   #14
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Except that I don't believe it is beneficial to sit in an ivory awaiting that perfect, glowing, idealized relationship. I married young (to the wrong person), and have had multiple relationships over the last dozen years of"being single".

Every adult relationship I have had, has taught me something about what I did (and didn't) want/need/deserve in relationships. To be a little old and calculating about it - every relationship (especially the failed ones) served a purpose. I'm I'm in a better position now to have that "ideal" relationship, than I have been previously.

Yes, finding a good"fit" takes time. One could even (somewhat accurately) argue that it's taken TWENTY FIVE YEARS to find my current partner. In part, because it's taken25 years to get a solid grasping what an "ideal" relationship looks like [for me].
Also agree with this. I don't regret my failed relationships, they've made me who I am today. I change so much from year to year and I only just now at the end of my 20's am finding out what I want and I have no doubt they may change still but I feel I have a better idea now of what I want then I did many years ago.
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Gianbattista View Post
I already swapped out one aspect of my sexual expression for a life with G. ( and I carefully choose the word swap over gave up) This is something that while I lead the want, we are exploring together. If he said it was not ok for him ...it would not be ok, and there is a rub...because while I don't see myself as that much subservient, is that sub in itself? Its like a circle in a circle.
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Originally Posted by xxxSubSamxxx View Post
Thanks Gianbattista, I expected something like that from you. We can't always have our own way and compromising means you have gained something from G. Compromise can sometimes be a very good thing, but settling for something that makes you unhappy is completely different

Sam xx
Well, there are wants and there are needs.
The thing that is a want for someone can be a need for someone else.

It sounds very noble to say that love is that one thing that will make the relationship happy and satisfying, but that's not true in my experience.
You need to work together and you need to compromise, but you also need to be a good enough fit for each other.
The feelings we have for each other do change over time in any long, close relationship change and there are going to be times when you need a very strong foundation together.

Also, BDSM can certainly be about the sexual relationship and as you say often just a part of it. For others it's going to be part of their prefered relationship structure.
The example Elle gives is a good one. She says that if G says it's out, it's out. Is that BDSM?
For some, living with someone who wants them to have the last word in every important decision would be a horror. For others it's a necessity.
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:05 PM   #16
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I note Cutie mouse didn't call all her past relationships 'failed' . I was in quite a happy, easy going relationship when I met G. Our parting was sweet, there were giggly tears, and he and G have met since and that was also charming. Had it tried to be more than that I think it could have turned into a failed relationship, but as what it was it was wonderful. Just because its 'past' doesn't mean its failed.

That doesn't mean I don't have regrets. I think I do have regrets. I vacillate on this, but...I think I good have done ok without some experiences in relationships. The one relationship in particular.
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:14 PM   #17
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Well, there are wants and there are needs.
The thing that is a want for someone can be a need for someone else.

It sounds very noble to say that love is that one thing that will make the relationship happy and satisfying, but that's not true in my experience.
You need to work together and you need to compromise, but you also need to be a good enough fit for each other.
The feelings we have for each other do change over time in any long, close relationship change and there are going to be times when you need a very strong foundation together.

Also, BDSM can certainly be about the sexual relationship and as you say often just a part of it. For others it's going to be part of their prefered relationship structure.
The example Elle gives is a good one. She says that if G says it's out, it's out. Is that BDSM?
For some, living with someone who wants them to have the last word in every important decision would be a horror. For others it's a necessity.

But that also brings in the question what is love And marital romantic love, to me, is not the same as ...I am groping for a word but I am going to go with a the description of self sacrificial infatuation or matyrdom.

I cannot impose it on G. I cannot fall out of love with G. If I fell out of love with G, it would be a different consideration, but.....even though he is just a man, .

I think its good that its working for us. If its not....I'd do without, perhaps this is also because this is a new introduction for us? But I say also this, if he were unwell, or injured, and unable to be sexual at all, I similarly could not walk away. He has stood by me.
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:52 PM   #18
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But that also brings in the question what is love And marital romantic love, to me, is not the same as ...I am groping for a word but I am going to go with a the description of self sacrificial infatuation or matyrdom.

I cannot impose it on G. I cannot fall out of love with G. If I fell out of love with G, it would be a different consideration, but.....even though he is just a man, .

I think its good that its working for us. If its not....I'd do without, perhaps this is also because this is a new introduction for us? But I say also this, if he were unwell, or injured, and unable to be sexual at all, I similarly could not walk away. He has stood by me.
Oh, I totally get what you mean.
But no relationship starts there.
And sorry for using you like an example like that, but I've been thinking a lot abot the same thing that you wrote about in that post.

What is love, is a very valid question. And the answer is going to evolve over time, I think as you get to know the other person and how you work together.

And now I have that old Howard Jones song playing in my head.
"What is looooove, anyway..."
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:59 PM   #19
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Oh, I totally get what you mean.
But no relationship starts there.
And sorry for using you like an example like that, but I've been thinking a lot abot the same thing that you wrote about in that post.

What is love, is a very valid question. And the answer is going to evolve over time, I think as you get to know the other person and how you work together.

And now I have that old Howard Jones song playing in my head.
"What is looooove, anyway..."
I don't mind at all. . I put it up there.

No relationship starts where, with love? I used to agree. When I met G I was NOT interested. He was, he told someone the night we met he wanted to marry me. My going for a drink with him was kind of a pity thing ( how arrogant of me! He giggles at it, ) Four weeks after that I said I loved him and felt confused as I said it but it was true. . Our lives have changed very much since then. I would not necessarily recommend such quick moving ( and I had personal limits I would not go past despite my heart's confidence....)
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:22 PM   #20
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I don't mind at all. . I put it up there.

No relationship starts where, with love? I used to agree. When I met G I was NOT interested. He was, he told someone the night we met he wanted to marry me. My going for a drink with him was kind of a pity thing ( how arrogant of me! He giggles at it, ) Four weeks after that I said I loved him and felt confused as I said it but it was true. . Our lives have changed very much since then. I would not necessarily recommend such quick moving ( and I had personal limits I would not go past despite my heart's confidence....)
No I meant that no relationship starts with that time tested knowledge of what we will stand by each other through.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:35 PM   #21
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No I meant that no relationship starts with that time tested knowledge of what we will stand by each other through.
Ahh, ok. But then at a point some make a commitment that some do stand by, like marriage. Now personally, I do not think its good to stay in a dysfunctional relationship for vows made in a different time and state of mind, but.....G has been tested over one aspect, and actually, in different way so have I. I am pretty sure I know there are some things that would be too far for him . I am also sure to cross some of my boundaries he would no longer have some of the things about him that I love most.

I know life will bring more tests. We cannot guess how we will do with them. But I will try hard.

Its not just partnerships that can initiate or require sacrifice, ( though relationships, adulthood, family often can conflate I think and focus can feel on one person) its other areas of life, and these can be as confounding. For me personally, they can be...disheartening. But...there is always opportunity. If I had not made 'swaps' , or losses, I doubt I would have made attempts to try and be a kinder person than I have been in the past, I don't know that I would have explored this avenue to myself, I doubt I would have other things in my life that mean much to me.



Sam.....is this helping or are we drifting too far? I am conscious from recent discussion drifting from op can be frustrating.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:09 PM   #22
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I'm married 43 years.

Much of what I read above is nice but nonsense. Its nonsense because life happens, then what?

The most essential piece of a relationship are shared values. We agree on all the core things, and where we differ the differences aren't deal breakers. Like, I got up every day and went to work. I handed my pay check over to her on pay day. I'm the designated driver, she likes to drink at a party, and I don't care if I do or don't. I prefer to sit on a chair, on the driveway, with a bottle. I don't smoke, she does, and she gets no sermonettes or sour looks from me.

We tried swinging once. I liked the other wife, she hated the other husband. We're simply not compatible with others. I don't know that a young Marine could pass her standards, its the Marlboro Man or none. The whole package has gotta be there, and it all better be the real deal. I almost had her talked into threesomes once or twice, but she's more judgmental about females. She thinks I'll fuck anything with a vagina so she doesn't fret if I do, because no one is a threat.

I don't know how people get life and kink synchronized. We had 4 kids who made it impossible. But folks talk their talk. I don't believe most of it.
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:48 PM   #23
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It's not either or any more than love and sex are either or, or love and religion are either or for some people, or any other thing that someone feels is required before they invest in someone.

In short, love is not enough to make a relationship work. Sure for some people BDSM is not a requirement for compatibility. Some people don't require someone who in politically the same to be compatible, but others do.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:17 PM   #24
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I don't know how people get life and kink synchronized. We had 4 kids who made it impossible. But folks talk their talk. I don't believe most of it.
Depends on how you define "kink".

Something I eventually realized about myself, is that 99% of my "kink" happens as a connectedness [to my lover]. I don't need toys, floggers, paddles or rope to be content in a D/s relationship. I'm not at all interested in clubs, dungeons or munches; in fact, I prefer to avoid them as much as possible.

My "kink" manifests itself by contributing to an environment where I get to be myself, and he gets to be himself. He wants to bring me coffee in bed or do the dishes? Kick ass, and no worries about giving up his Dom card. I want to decide where we eat dinner, or suggest our schedule for the day? Awesome, and we both still know I'm following his lead (in the big picture sense). It might seem unconventional, in the D/s sort of way, but it works [for us], which is all that matters.

[long ramble ahead]

I was actually thinking about this thread this afternoon, and realized my current relationship is an excellent example of compromising and not being too rigid about what I want from a relationship.

Over the years, I've had friendships from Lit and/or Fet wander down the "I know I live X bazillion miles away, but what do you think about an LDR?"

Every.Freaking.Time. I lowered my guard and said I'd try... Crash, burn, emotional pit of purgatorial misery. Usually, because I was foolish enough to believe a man who claimed he wanted to move things from online to off, then found every excuse in the book NOT to. As a result, I decided long distance relationships were off the table. Period. Forever.

So when this fantasticly compatible person popped up on my OKCupid profile, I almost passed him by because we didn't even live in the same state. I only emailed him to say I enjoyed reading his profile & good luck in the search... His reply was that we needed to meet, and if I was open to the idea he'd make it happen. (I may have told him he was crazy...) Getting me to even consider it (much less believe him when he said he'd booked the flight), took a bit of work on his end. lol

Except 2 months later he was on my front porch. (Which was actually faster than we thought our calendars could coordinate, but he moved stuff around.) And a month later, he was in town on business. And it's been like 8? 9 months now?And he's constantly reworking his calendar, and looking 2, 3, 4 months out to make sure we get long weekends (or more) every month. Hell, he's already looking at November/December 2016. lol

It works, in part, because the compatibility is there across every level. And neither of us feel like giving up on that degree of compatibility, just because he lives in X state, has grown kids to still manage and travels 90% of the time, and I live in Y state, have PT custody of my brood and travel 50% of the time.

A year ago, I'd have said "Fuck compromise up its stupid ass. I'm done compromising".

Oops.

[/long ramble]
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:23 AM   #25
Netzach
>semiotics?
 
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For what? Every relationship is different, whatever role you're trying to fill with it.

For me I realized a few things. An anchoring relationship is not a possibility if they are 1. Not bisexual (straight or lesbian alike don't get where I'm coming from) 2. Not TRULY ok with an open relationship. 3. Can't participate in ANY kink and can't deal with me getting that participation elsewhere as well.

There are just certain walls I swore I'd never bang my head on again. Sex itself isn't the priority it once was, but these doors have to be open or I start chewing a leg off. The whole question is so much less than a relationship or love or whatever, but without that fundamental matching, the relationship car has no gas in it, no matter how good it looks.
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