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does it count??

I

insert____here

Really Really Experienced
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Posts
324
does it count as submission when i really truly want to do something He asks, and enjoy doing it?

or does it only count if He asks something of me He knows i won't enjoy, and i do it purely out of the need to do as He asked?

no panic buttons or red flag wavers...it's ok. really. this is a very deliberate request on His part based on info given by me.

my question is purely to determine just exactly what constitutes submission.

thanks all.
 
IMHO positive DS relationship goes both ways. I question someone who only wants to make you do things that "He knows you won't enjoy". Not saying this shouldn't be part of it, but does it mean you aren't a sub if you don't enjoy those things? I'm with you on this one.

I also question someone who would be fulfilled by a relationship in which they were ALWAYS doing things they didn't like, without getting some internal enjoyment, except from the fact that "he asked". Does this have to be 100% of the time or you shouldn't feel like a submissive? I get how erotic this can be in the moment, but we don't live in the moment forever.
 
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Who's counting? :)

It doesn't matter if you enjoy it or not. Hopefully you get some enjoyment out of at least obeying. Submission is submitting to someone elses will. In my opinion that means all the time. If he wants you to eat chocolate--you get to enjoy it, if he wants you to eat shit...maybe not enjoy it. It's all submission.
 
The first is one point the latter is two points.

No, I'm kidding. To me a well-balanced relationship probably has some of each.
 
ecstaticsub said:
Who's counting? :)

It doesn't matter if you enjoy it or not. Hopefully you get some enjoyment out of at least obeying. Submission is submitting to someone elses will. In my opinion that means all the time. If he wants you to eat chocolate--you get to enjoy it, if he wants you to eat shit...maybe not enjoy it. It's all submission.
Click to expand...

actually, that's a pretty good way of looking at it. either way, i am doing something because He wants me to. i get alot of pleasure out of the simple fact He requested me to do something. asking me to do something He knows i like is up to Him....

thankyou for that...

anyone else want to chime in on this one??? the more the merrier....
 
I would ask who is counting too.
Do you want to have relationship made of some vague rules made by outsiders? Only thing that matters is what counts for you, and him. Why not just ask him?
 
insert____here said:
does it count as submission when i really truly want to do something He asks, and enjoy doing it?

or does it only count if He asks something of me He knows i won't enjoy, and i do it purely out of the need to do as He asked?

no panic buttons or red flag wavers...it's ok. really. this is a very deliberate request on His part based on info given by me.

my question is purely to determine just exactly what constitutes submission.

thanks all.
Click to expand...

What does being submissive mean to you? Do you feel submissive when you do something you enjoy? Or only when you do something you don't enjoy, so you know that you're doing it "for him"?

For me, everything counts. Even open defiance (which is actually the antonym of submission). I can't say that the nature of our interactions are as pleasant when I'm defying him. But sometimes it's the best I can offer. And, ironically, it's very unpleasantness almost always moves me into a more submissive attitude.
 
StrayKat said:
I would ask who is counting too.
Do you want to have relationship made of some vague rules made by outsiders? Only thing that matters is what counts for you, and him. Why not just ask him?
Click to expand...

simply asking to better understand the subtext of submission...there are so many subtleties and nuances that are unexpected and new for me.
it has nothing to do with "rules", and i'm certainly not going to base my relationship on anything you all might say.
just trying to figure stuff out.
can't always ask Him and it is nice to get opinions and discussion from people outside me and Him.
i don't have a rl chat network for these kinds of questions and you all seem pretty good people, so i ask you.

perhaps my use of the word "count" was the wrong one...it seems to be upsetting people.

sorry.
 
eastern sun said:
What does being submissive mean to you? Do you feel submissive when you do something you enjoy? Or only when you do something you don't enjoy, so you know that you're doing it "for him"?

For me, everything counts. Even open defiance (which is actually the antonym of submission). I can't say that the nature of our interactions are as pleasant when I'm defying him. But sometimes it's the best I can offer. And, ironically, it's very unpleasantness almost always moves me into a more submissive attitude.
Click to expand...

for me, i enjoy knowing i please Him. it's still early for us, so open defiance really hasn't come up yet. neither of us has pushed that far. but i'm sure it will up eventually.
this is the first time i am reluctant to do something and it really has hit me that i will do this anyway because He wants it. and that it makes me happy.

so i guess i'm asking others if they define their submission by the moments they do something they don't like because someone asked; or as the moments of compliance with anything from being the first to step forward after an argument to doing the dishes.
 
insert____here said:
for me, i enjoy knowing i please Him. it's still early for us, so open defiance really hasn't come up yet. neither of us has pushed that far. but i'm sure it will up eventually.
this is the first time i am reluctant to do something and it really has hit me that i will do this anyway because He wants it. and that it makes me happy.

so i guess i'm asking others if they define their submission by the moments they do something they don't like because someone asked; or as the moments of compliance with anything from being the first to step forward after an argument to doing the dishes.
Click to expand...

For me, everything counts. For him, only the things that actually please him count.
 
insert____here said:
simply asking to better understand the subtext of submission...there are so many subtleties and nuances that are unexpected and new for me.
it has nothing to do with "rules", and i'm certainly not going to base my relationship on anything you all might say.
just trying to figure stuff out.
can't always ask Him and it is nice to get opinions and discussion from people outside me and Him.
i don't have a rl chat network for these kinds of questions and you all seem pretty good people, so i ask you.

perhaps my use of the word "count" was the wrong one...it seems to be upsetting people.

sorry.
Click to expand...

She wasn't scolding you sweetie. :) Nor were ES or myself trying to wave red flags in your face and get you to stop in your tracks. We're all just trying to make you think so to speak.

The thing you'll find about this board is that we all love conversation, but also the possibility of further conversation. Things that may seem directed at you, might not be directed at you at all. For example, we might talk about the risks of doing something even though we know that person is going to do said activity regardless. The topic of risks in that case is usually more for some one stumbling onto the thread and thinking "hey nailing my slut's tits to a board sounds totally kick ass fun" and no know that there are serious health risks involved.

:)

Now as to your question. I remember wondering about the same thing when I was new. I thought that you had to do things that you don't nessisarily enjoy in order for it to be "real" submission.

I also thought that he had to be very obviously "in charge" or we weren't really D/s. But when I was there, I felt no less his curled up watching movies with them than I did being ordered to strip down to a corset and go out in the hallway of the hotel.

And it wasn't until then that I really understood when people say "submission is what you decide it is".
 
the captians wench said:
She wasn't scolding you sweetie. :) Nor were ES or myself trying to wave red flags in your face and get you to stop in your tracks. We're all just trying to make you think so to speak.

The thing you'll find about this board is that we all love conversation, but also the possibility of further conversation. Things that may seem directed at you, might not be directed at you at all.
Click to expand...

i know you all aren't "picking one me". i know how much everyone cares about people on here. i didn't want anyone to worry is all.
i enjoy having my notions and opinions challenged so please feel free to fire away. good debate and knowledge from people wiser than me is always welcome (although may not always be heeded)

thankyou all.
 
Feeling submissive, being submissive and acting submissive have all degree of separation that probably are what you are struggling with.

I am submissive. There is no doubt about that in my mind at this point (ask me in few months and I might be questioning it all over again ;) ).

Feeling submissive it happens each time I let my PYL(s) have his way with me. Whether I am enjoying it or not (and recently is mostly not, even with Hubby): it has nothing to do with my enjoyment and all with his.
It even happens at times with my vanilla lovers.

But many times, for me, the deepest submissive acts are the one that go unnoticed by the PYL(s): making sure that everything in the household run smoothly, not burden him with unnecessary whining, being there to listen and support when needed, being ready to rearrange my whole schedule if I have to, accepting each and any decision he might make (I do resent them at times, but at the end, unless they are truly detrimental, I accept them), focus on his happiness and desires, taking care of myself, etc. All things that very rarely involve his direct interventions and actions, but that I do never forgetting that ultimately I do most of them for him.


eastern sun said:
For me, everything counts. For him, only the things that actually please him count.
Click to expand...

*chuckle* totally! LOL
 
insert____here said:
i know you all aren't "picking one me". i know how much everyone cares about people on here. i didn't want anyone to worry is all.
i enjoy having my notions and opinions challenged so please feel free to fire away. good debate and knowledge from people wiser than me is always welcome (although may not always be heeded)

thankyou all.
Click to expand...

Well! :)

Aren't you just a charming one? :heart:
 
satindesire said:
Well! :)

Aren't you just a charming one? :heart:
Click to expand...

*open snort of laughter*

no!! heck no!!

but i am flattered that you thinks so. it's very sweet.

(i wasn't laughing at you, really...just the idea that i'm charming. sorry if you got offended)
 
insert____here said:
*open snort of laughter*

no!! heck no!!

but i am flattered that you thinks so. it's very sweet.

(i wasn't laughing at you, really...just the idea that i'm charming. sorry if you got offended)
Click to expand...

I'm not easily offended, honey. Don't you worry about me.
 
for me submission is giving myself to Him completely totally and completely. doing what He wants whether i enjoy it or not, either way i get joy from the fact that i know it will please Him. so whether i enjoy the task or not, i still get pleasure from pleasing Him and that...that is what i consider submission.
 
does it count as submission when i really truly want to do something He asks, and enjoy doing it?
Click to expand...

Sure, you're doing something he asks. That's submission in a nutshell.
 
I have a dominant personality in most aspects of my life. I am in control of my relationship in any way I can be, in control of bills and budgeting, how my child is raised, what I do, when I do, where I do what etc. I always want to be in control. To me one time of the few times I DO allow someone to tell me what to do is with sex. I allow him to tell me how fast, how slow, what position, tie me down, etc. The mere act of even allowing someone control in sex is submission to me even if we don't do anything super crazy. Although when I do get tied to the bed, blind folded and have no idea what he's going to do to me and I can't get out, that's just extra submission on my part so exciting. Yes I'm giving him permission to be in charge but that is is in charge is submission to me because I am submitting to his control.
 
insert____here said:
does it count as submission when i really truly want to do something He asks, and enjoy doing it?
Click to expand...

Works for me.

In fact, if I knew the pyl was really, really not enjoying it, I wouldn't enjoy it either, even if I'd asked for it.

These things are much more subtle than they look on the surface.
 
It could just be that you managed to find a partner who has similar values and interests as you. You can still have the D/s power exchange without being put through the ringer. I'd just celebrate.
 
Ladybugsjoy said:
I have a dominant personality in most aspects of my life. I am in control of my relationship in any way I can be, in control of bills and budgeting, how my child is raised, what I do, when I do, where I do what etc. I always want to be in control. To me one time of the few times I DO allow someone to tell me what to do is with sex. I allow him to tell me how fast, how slow, what position, tie me down, etc. The mere act of even allowing someone control in sex is submission to me even if we don't do anything super crazy. Although when I do get tied to the bed, blind folded and have no idea what he's going to do to me and I can't get out, that's just extra submission on my part so exciting. Yes I'm giving him permission to be in charge but that is is in charge is submission to me because I am submitting to his control.
Click to expand...

I relate totally to this. In addition, I think that submission, for me, is about subjugating my mind. When I am with Him, I shift from thinking/questioning/controlling, to feeling/agreeing/accepting. I think that I also find the anticipation, the not knowing, to be what is exciting, as Ladybugsjoy says, but also the fact that I trust Him (strange as that sounds).
 
I think elements of both enjoying and not enjoying are involved. At the risk of stating the obvious, submission is giving the Dom (male or female) the power. The power to take what he wants and the power to give what he wants. I would hope that sometimes you would enjoy what he takes and gives bc if you don't enjoy some of it, I don't think you are going to play D/s very long. On the other hand, submitting is doing what he wants even when you don't want to or even when you don't feel like it. Yes, sometimes that means sucking him off when you might be late for work, just because he wants it. Maybe you like it too, maybe you don't, quite frankly it doesn't matter bc you have agreed to submit to him.
I hope that makes sense.
 
You are probably correct in that if you are doing something that you really want to do in the first place, it is not really submission. However, there can be grey areas. Maybe you love giving blow jobs but he makes you give him a blowjob at a time or at a place you really wouldn't do in a normal relationship. That would be submission. I think the most important part of a dom - sub relationship is the dom respecting the limits of the sub and not just being a control freak. The dom also needs to understand what makes the sub tick and make sure that the relationship is not just one sided.
 
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