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Old 06-02-2012, 03:02 AM   #17451
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I wish that there was a way to tax some of the rich more than the others, to make a distinction between those who have truly earned their wealth through honest toil and innovation from those who have looted and fleeced their way to the top of their heap. Both classes of the rich exist. This is what the Right doesn't get. They think that we on the Left hate the rich. No, we hate the crooks. There's a difference.
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:34 AM   #17452
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Originally Posted by pierrelarue161 View Post
I wish that there was a way to tax some of the rich more than the others, to make a distinction between those who have truly earned their wealth through honest toil and innovation from those who have looted and fleeced their way to the top of their heap. Both classes of the rich exist. This is what the Right doesn't get. They think that we on the Left hate the rich. No, we hate the crooks. There's a difference.
Sorry I can't stop from laughing
So the left doesn't have crooks
Sorry a dallas county Democratic had 250 G's in his safe at home the government has him under investigation right now Google John Wylie Price
How many Illinois governors that are Democrats in jail right now
What's wrong you jealous you live a failed life want blame your failures on someone
You mad Obama hasn't spread the wealth around
Why you so worried about the money someone has it's not yours doesn't matter how they got it worry about you own.
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:20 AM   #17453
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Originally Posted by bra_man69 View Post
Sorry I can't stop from laughing
So the left doesn't have crooks
Sorry a dallas county Democratic had 250 G's in his safe at home the government has him under investigation right now Google John Wylie Price
How many Illinois governors that are Democrats in jail right now
What's wrong you jealous you live a failed life want blame your failures on someone
You mad Obama hasn't spread the wealth around
Why you so worried about the money someone has it's not yours doesn't matter how they got it worry about you own.

English isn't your first language is it?
 

Old 06-02-2012, 07:59 AM   #17454
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Originally Posted by TexasWife25 View Post
Yes because you couldnt click the links and see its from the last part of may

Including the quote from Romney, saying indeed, things are improving



Please, go on and tell us all about how all the experts are wrong and things arent even a little bit better now than they were 4 years ago.
I say that because gas prices are falling not rising as I presaged some time back, that at the first hint of recovery, prices would shoot up killing the recovery and then fall back again.

The experts? The experts? This took what you consider to be "all" the experts by surprise.

It did not take me by surprise.

See post #14961 and the ensuing conversation with merc...

I don't know how you can say things aren't a little bit better with a record number of people not working, a record number of people on food stamps and record spending (and thus debt) by a President and Congress.

What I get the sense of here is that Democrats and fans of Obama measure things by their job. If they still have it, then Obama isn't that bad.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:00 AM   #17455
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Originally Posted by koalabear View Post
Employment growth stalls in May

The weak payrolls report could cause the Federal Reserve to move closer to launching a third round of bond purchases to shore up the economy. It could also exert more pressure on President Barack Obama, who faces a tough re-election campaign in November.

The level of employment is still 5 million jobs below where it was in December 2007, when the economy fell into recession.
yes, the mantra of the Socialists of the Chair, their answer to every problem is to expand the money supply.

Grecian Formula

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Old 06-02-2012, 08:04 AM   #17456
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Originally Posted by SeanH View Post
Have there been two consecutive quarters of negative growth in the US economy?
The new metric.

As long as the double-dip didn't show up, then the policies of Socialism actually worked.


We're going to hear a lot of the unprovable, things would have been worse.

I also remember that under George Bush we kept hearing from the Democrats, well technically, it might not be a recession, but to all the little people, it feels like one, it's just the rich getting richer, burger flipping jobs, and by Gawd, when we take power back, the first thing we're going to do is raise the minimum wage to a living wage...
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:06 AM   #17457
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Originally Posted by TexasWife25 View Post
Ive never heard anyone, either on the boards or on any news source, suggest the recession is over.

I'm honestly really interested in a link you have of anyone saying that.
You're kidding, right?

It ended in 2009.


"We own the economy. We own the beginning of the turnaround and we want to make sure that we continue that pace of recovery, not go back to the policies of the past under the Bush administration that put us in the ditch in the first place."
Debbie Wasserman Schultz

If you ask me, I think what we're experiencing isn't in fact closer to a "growthless" recovery than to a jobless one. Because GDP started to grow more than a year and a half ago, but with the exception of just a couple of quarters, growth has not been noticeably above its trend rate of about 2-1/2 percent a year. I don't rejoice at the news that we added 216,000 jobs in March. About a hundred thousand of that 216,000 is needed every month just to keep up with the growth in the labor force. At this rate of job growth, it would take most of the decade to replace the eight 8-1/2 million jobs that were lost in the recession.
Christina Romer
Chairwoman of Obama's White House Council of Economic Advisors
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:07 AM   #17458
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Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
Hahahahahaha, that's the same fucking question I was asking you assholes when the Democrats were trying to unseat Bush with claims of recession, and never got an answer.

With Obama's unique methods of revising and extending government statistics, and a lap dog MSM loathe to report the truth, how would most people know?
Like I said just a couple of posts ago...


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Old 06-02-2012, 08:09 AM   #17459
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Originally Posted by Adre View Post
BFD. It's up about 6000 in the last four years. Take a pill.
Those closest to the inflation always benefit the most, evil big corporations.

ALso you must factor in the steady stream of 401K monies as people desperately scramble for a retirement that may never come in a fiat money system since the answer to every economic ill is to inflate the money supply.

This cannot be said enough.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:11 AM   #17460
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Originally Posted by TexasWife25 View Post
1st, there is an ocean wide gap between improved and all fixed. 2nd, why is it that anytime someone says "things arent improving" and then someone posts improving stats, then the next response is "those numbers lie"? Do you honestly believe there is a huge conspiracy to cook the books?
The books are cooked.

The money supply was inflated and they simply stopped counting people to get the U3 unemployment number down, but the participation rate is at the lowest point since women entered the workforce.

Now who benefits in an inflation?

Wall Street and cronies.

Not the people.

They pay...
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:12 AM   #17461
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Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
Listen dear, it is a fact that the administration unemployment numbers are constantly adjusted downward every week. He has politicized preliminary reports of those statistics. The government itself admits the numbers are being re-adjusted.
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."
Ayn Rand


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Old 06-02-2012, 08:15 AM   #17462
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Wingnuts rooting against America again
That's the best you have?



At least blame Europe...

Sideshow Barry Barker 2012 Says: "It's NOT the economy, Stupid!" It's the Birthers! The Tea Party! SARAH PALIN!
Bush!
BAD LUCK!!
RACISM!!!
ATMs, KIOSKs & CORPORATE JETS!!!
TSUNAMIS, TORNADOS, & the ARAB SPRING!!!
EARTHQUAKES & HURRICANES!!!!!
EUROPE’s €PIIGS!!!!!!!!

OBSTRUCTION!!!
Americans have grown “Soft!”
MY LIMP STAFF
Greece is the word!
Roman Noodles!
Iran and the Jews!
You're all LAZY!
Come on WORK WITH ME HERE!
I killed a lot of people people!


”’Shovel-ready’ was not as shovel-ready as we expected.” (Laughter)





... telephone operators...,


... the Internet...


Bush...

That wasn't me that gave drone technology to Iran!


Those Inscrutable Chinese!
Cheapskate CONGRESS!
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:19 AM   #17463
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Originally Posted by pierrelarue161 View Post
I wish that there was a way to tax some of the rich more than the others, to make a distinction between those who have truly earned their wealth through honest toil and innovation from those who have looted and fleeced their way to the top of their heap. Both classes of the rich exist. This is what the Right doesn't get. They think that we on the Left hate the rich. No, we hate the crooks. There's a difference.
It is a fallacy to believe that you can actually tax the rich.

You need to tax events, not people or products.


Fairtax.org
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:31 AM   #17464
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Twilight of the West
By Mark Steyn, NRO
June 2, 2012 4:00 A.M.

Quote:
The Eurovision Song Contest doesn’t get a lot of attention in the United States, but on the Continent it’s long been seen as the perfect Euro-metaphor. Years before the euro came along, it was the prototype pan-European institution, and predicated on the same assumptions. Eurovision took the national cultures that produced Mozart, Vivaldi, and Debussy, and in return gave us “Boom-Bang-a-Bang” (winner, 1969), “Ding-Ding-a-Dong” (winner, 1975), and “Diggi-Loo-Diggi-Ley” (winner, 1984). The euro took the mark, the lira, and the franc, and merged them to create the “Boom-Bang-a-Bang” of currencies.

How will it all end? One recalls the 1990 Eurovision finals in Zagreb: “Yugoslavia is very much like an orchestra,” cooed the hostess, Helga Vlahović. “The string section and the wood section all sit together.” Shortly thereafter, the wood section began ethnically cleansing the dressing rooms, while the string section rampaged through the brass section pillaging their instruments and severing their genitals. Indeed, the charming Miss Vlahović herself was forced into a sudden career shift and spent the next few years as Croatian TV’s head of “war information” programming.

Fortunately, no one remembers Yugoslavia. So today Europe itself is very much like an orchestra. The Greek fiddlers and the Italian wind players all sit together, playing cards in the dressing room, waiting for the German guy to show up with their checks. Just before last week’s Eurovision finale in Azerbaijan, the Daily Mail in London reported that the Spanish entrant, Pastora Soler, had been told to throw the competition “because the cash-strapped country can’t afford to host the lavish event next year,” as the winning nation is obliged to do. In a land where the youth unemployment rate is over 50 percent, and two-thirds of the country’s airports are under threat of closure, and whose neighbors (Britain) are drawing up plans for military intervention to evacuate their nationals in the event of total civic collapse, the pressing need to avoid winning the Eurovision Song Contest is still a poignant symbol of how total is Spain’s implosion. Ask not for whom “Ding-Ding-a-Dong” dings, it dings for thee.

One of the bizarre aspects of media coverage since 2008 is the complacent assumption that what’s happening is “cyclical” — a downturn that will eventually correct itself — rather than profoundly structural. Christine Lagarde, head of the IMF, found herself skewered like souvlaki on a Thessaloniki grill for suggesting the other day that the Greeks are a race of tax evaders. She’s right. Compared to Germans, your average Athenian has a noticeable aversion to declaring income. But that’s easy for her to say: Mme. Lagarde’s half-million-dollar remuneration from the IMF is tax-free, just a routine perk of the new transnational governing class. And, in the end, whether your broke European state has reasonably efficient tax collectors like the French or incompetent ones like the Greeks is relatively peripheral.

Likewise, on this side of the Atlantic: Quebec university students, who pay the lowest tuition rates in North America, are currently striking over a proposed increase of $1,625. Spread out over seven years. Or about 232 bucks per annum. Or about the cost of one fair-trade macchiato a week. Which has, since the strike, been reduced further, to a couple of sips: If you’re wondering how guys who don’t do any work can withdraw their labor, well, “strike” is a euphemism for riot. The other week, Vanessa L’Écuyer, a sexology student at the Université du Québec à Montréal, was among those arrested for smoke-bombing the subway system and bringing the city’s morning commute to a halt. But, as in Europe, in the end, whether you fund your half-decade bachelor’s in sexology through a six-figure personal debt or whether you do it through the largesse of the state is relatively peripheral.

In the twilight of the West, America and Europe are still different but only to this extent: They’ve wound up taking separate paths to the same destination. Whether you get there via an artificial common currency for an invented pseudo-jurisdiction or through quantitative easing and the global decline of the dollar, whether you spend your final years in the care of Medicare or the National Health Service death panels, whether higher education is just another stage of cradle-to-grave welfare or you have a trillion dollars’ worth of personal college debt, in 2012 the advanced Western social-democratic citizen looks pretty similar, whether viewed from Greece or Germany, California or Quebec.

That’s to say, the unsustainable “bubble” is not student debt or subprime mortgages or anything else. The bubble is us, and the assumptions of entitlement. Too many citizens of advanced Western democracies live a life they have not earned, and are not willing to earn. Indeed, much of our present fiscal woe derives from two phases of human existence that are entirely the invention of the modern world. Once upon a time, you were a kid till you were 13 or so; then you worked; then you died. That bit between childhood and death has been chewed away at both ends. We invented something called “adolescence” that now extends not merely through the teenage years but through a desultory half decade of Whatever Studies at Complacency U up till you’re 26 and no longer eligible for coverage on your parents’ health-insurance policy. At the other end of the spectrum, we introduced something called “retirement” that, in the space of two generations, has led to the presumption that able-bodied citizens are entitled to spend the last couple of decades, or one-third of their adult lives, as a long holiday weekend.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:01 AM   #17465
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Originally Posted by pierrelarue161 View Post
I wish that there was a way to tax some of the rich more than the others, to make a distinction between those who have truly earned their wealth through honest toil and innovation from those who have looted and fleeced their way to the top of their heap. Both classes of the rich exist. This is what the Right doesn't get. They think that we on the Left hate the rich. No, we hate the crooks. There's a difference.
dude...
 

Old 06-02-2012, 09:05 AM   #17466
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I thought we had a system in place to tax the rich more...





Alternative Minimum Tax...

Progressive Income Tax..

Capital Gains Tax...

Luxury Taxes...

Grandkids...


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Old 06-02-2012, 09:18 AM   #17467
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This wingnut says what I already said about the three bog uncertainties working against the President's Keynesian polity...

A Grim Jobs Report for America
By Larry Kudlow, NRO
June 1, 2012 4:00 P.M.

Quote:
You would think $1 trillion in spending stimulus and $2.5 trillion of Fed pump-priming would produce an economy a whole lot stronger than 1.9 percent GDP, which was the revised first-quarter number. And you’d think all that government spending would deliver a whole lot more jobs than 69,000 in May.

But it hasn’t happened.

The Keynesian government-spending model has proven a complete failure. It’s the Obama model. And it has produced such an anemic recovery that frankly, at 2 percent growth, we’re back on the front end of a potential recession. If anything goes wrong — like another blow-up in Europe — there’s no safety margin to stop a new recession.

And that brings us to the grim May employment report, which generated only 69,000 nonfarm payrolls. It’s the third consecutive subpar tally, replete with downward revisions for the two prior months. It’s a devastating number for the American economy, and a catastrophic number for Obama’s reelection hopes. All momentum on jobs and the economy has evaporated.

Inside the May report, the data is just as bad. The unemployment rate rose slightly from 8.1 to 8.2 percent. The so called U6 unemployment rate, tracking the marginally employed or completely discouraged, increased to 14.8 percent from 14.5 percent. And labor earnings are barely rising at 1.7 percent over the past year, almost in line with the inflation rate. In fact, through April, after-tax, after-inflation income is scarcely rising at 0.6 percent for the past year.

The private workweek also fell in May. So did the manufacturing workweek and aggregate hours worked for all employees. The small-business household survey did rise, but that follows declines in the prior two months.

Barack Obama doesn’t get this, but businesses create jobs. And firms have to be profitable in order to hire. Yet the president is on the campaign trail criticizing Mitt Romney by degrading the importance of profits. Huh?

Without profits businesses can’t expand. And if they don’t expand, they can’t hire. And if they don’t have profitable rates of return, they’re not going to attract new capital for investment.

Which brings us to a couple of important reasons for the virtual freeze in hiring.

First there’s the fiscal tax cliff. If all the Bush tax rates go up, incentives will go down and liquidity will leave the system. You can’t pick up a newspaper these days and not find a story about how the fiscal cliff is elevating uncertainty and slowing U.S. growth. House Speaker John Boehner asked Obama for help in extending the Bush tax cuts this summer. But Obama said no. Instead, he wants to raise marginal tax rates on successful upper-income earners, capital gains, dividends, estates, and many successful corporations.

Where’s the corporate tax reform that would lower rates and broaden the base and end the double-taxation of the overseas profits of American companies? A business tax cut would help enormously, but it’s nowhere in sight. Neither is the Keystone Pipeline, which is a surefire job-creator. Obama’s too busy trashing Bain Capital profits and Romney’s business career, both of which, by the way, have recently been praised by former president Bill Clinton. (It was Clinton, you might recall, who lowered investment taxes and presided over an economic boom.)

A second uncertainty facing businesses is the Supreme Court decision on Obamacare due in a few weeks. If all those crazy tax-and-regulation mandates are deemed unconstitutional, it’s Katy bar the door as businesses put profits to work and hire. But they’re not going to move until they see that court decision.

Then there’s the whole European mess with the threat of banking contagion from Spain, Greece, and Italy. That could blow up the whole world economy if it goes completely sour. The Europeans should guarantee all bank deposits, interbank loans, and bank debt until this story is straightened out. But they’re not. So the problem festers.

And now European companies are withdrawing money from local banks and investing in dollars (especially through Treasury bonds that are yielding an incredibly low 1.5 percent). But the rapid rise of King Dollar is generating commodity deflation, which is a deterrent to manufacturing production. According to the May ISM report, manufacturing is slowing.

The Fed may yet launch a new quantitative easing to stop commodity deflation and accommodate the gigantic worldwide dollar demand. But the merits of this move are dubious. On the other hand, an extension of the Bush tax cuts right now would stop the economic and job slide and reestablish certainty.

In fact, all the countries around the world should move to the supply side with lower tax rates to spur economic-growth incentives. Europe, China, and Latin America ought to go back and read Ronald Reagan’s speeches and examine his actions when he faced a similar crisis 30 years ago. It would be an hour or two well spent.
Kudlow was the first to warn the Republicans that the economy was going to improve.

Ol' A_J told Republicans not to worry because a slightly improving would spike gas prices (in light of the Obama green polity) and they would snuff the "recovery."

~ ta da ~
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:20 AM   #17468
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:23 AM   #17469
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Cool

*chuckle*
 

Old 06-02-2012, 09:26 AM   #17470
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Originally Posted by 4est_4est_Gump View Post
Those closest to the inflation always benefit the most, evil big corporations.

ALso you must factor in the steady stream of 401K monies as people desperately scramble for a retirement that may never come in a fiat money system since the answer to every economic ill is to inflate the money supply.

This cannot be said enough.
If you look at mutual fund inflow and outflow, bond funds are outpacing equities, and much of that is 401K money. P/E ratios are normal, so it's earnings supporting the market, not some unusual demand driven by fear. Fact, not opinion.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:32 AM   #17471
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If you look at mutual fund inflow and outflow, bond funds are outpacing equities, and much of that is 401K money. P/E ratios are normal, so it's earnings supporting the market, not some unusual demand driven by fear. Fact, not opinion.
I did not say it was some unusual demand driven by fear.

I said, people continued to chase their dream of retirement, a dream many fear will never materialize under Socialism's economics of "fairness."

I also said way back when at 13K (see post #14961) that the market was in a bubble of optimism that the recovery was underway just as the reelection celebration was in full swing here on Lit.

Fact Jack.



Just because you badly want something to be true does not mean that it is true.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:41 AM   #17472
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I also said way back when at 13K (see post #14961) that the market was in a bubble of optimism

Fact Jack.



Just because you badly want something to be true does not mean that it is true.
There you go again. The current numbers on the Dow and S&P are totally supported by corporate earnings. That is not a bubble of optimism, no matter what you claim. Take your own advice, Jack. Just because you want it to be true does not mean it is true. I know you're not dumb, so I will assume you're just stubborn and will never admit you were mistaken.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:42 AM   #17473
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The U.S. Labor Department reports that businesses created a meager 69,000 jobs last month — less than half what economists had expected. It was a sharp about-face from the start of the year, when hiring reached more than a quarter of a million jobs.
 

Old 06-02-2012, 09:45 AM   #17474
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There you go again. The current numbers on the Dow and S&P are totally supported by corporate earnings. That is not a bubble of optimism, no matter what you claim. Take your own advice, Jack. Just because you want it to be true does not mean it is true. I know you're not dumb, so I will assume you're just stubborn and will never admit you were mistaken.
It might not be now, but it was then.

How can I be mistaken when I said 13K would not be supported in the long run and here we are a little more than a month later and just above 12K?

I know why! Because I put more wait into Human Action (Praxeology) than I do PE ratios...

As pointed out so many times, the stock market is not a valid metric when examining the state of the economy, unless, of course, it's going up and a Democrat is President...

Be careful not to spend too much time examining the walnut tree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco_Slug_Esq View Post
AJ: I live in an oak forest...

fs: AJ, I'm standing in front of this tree and it's clearly a walnut, you don't live in an oak forest.

AJ: A forest will have more than one type of tree, but one usually predominates.

fs: All I see is this fucking Walnut tree! You're misusing the term Oak. It's just a forest.

AJ: 90% of the trees are oak.

fs: Now, you're just redefining the terms... We can't go any further with this conversation until you admit that this is a walnut tree...

AJ: Yes firespin, it's a walnut tree.

fs: Then you lied, you're stupid, you're inconsistent, and you make NO sense what-so-ever...
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:47 AM   #17475
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: GB Hall of Fame
Posts: 51,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beco View Post
The U.S. Labor Department reports that businesses created a meager 69,000 jobs last month — less than half what economists had expected. It was a sharp about-face from the start of the year, when hiring reached more than a quarter of a million jobs.
Will the Democrats conveniently forget that the took ownership of the economy?

I see they gave the stimulus spending to Bush to look more fiscally conservative which means now that Zandi and merc will have to give BUSH the credit for saving the economy...



tee hee

*giggle*
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