Doubts?

This may sound like a really stupid thing to say and you'll probably all jump down my throat but.....does anyone else ever have doubts?

On a good day I am very comfortable with what I'm doing, how I feel, what I need. On a bad day my very presbytrian upbringing kicks in and I know it's all wrong and the way I feel is all wrong.

So am I alone or is there anyone else out there who gets confused and has good and bad days?

Yes. It's all part of being both human, minimally functional, and at least mildly capable of interface with reality at large.

In short, you're fine.

Its not something you should'nt have get confused about becuase of you religion. Its human nature to think this way, and your not a bad person for being human.

welcome to the club

mistressmaxine said:

This may sound like a really stupid thing to say and you'll probably all jump down my throat but.....does anyone else ever have doubts?

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Absolutely. As much for the PYL as for the pyl. The things we do to our partners are certainly illegal (at least where I live), and reasonably so. And you do wake up in the night and wonder what it is that distinguishes you from a monster. Rapists and abductors notoriously construct narratives in their heads which say the victim 'wanted' it, 'encouraged' it, or 'deserved' it. I don't pretend to myself that my partners 'deserve' it, but I do persuade myself to believe they 'want' and 'encourage' it. Is this true, or am I delusional? Presumably the rapists and abductors believe that they are not delusional either.

Oh, my, yes.

Of course, I have a (strong) tendency to over-think things, in general. Add a strong tendency to introspection, a deep concern for ethics, and a continual fascination with the question of why people do what they do, and it's a wonder I can do anything at all.

There are a lot of sexual things that I enjoy on an emotional level, a lot of things that I have an esthetic or intellectual appreciation of, and then there are the things that speak directly to my cunt.

Hurting people makes me wet.

That's such a short and simple sentence, it must be terribly easy to type, right? Er, no. How horrible of a person must I be, for hurting people to turn me on?

Yes, he asked me to. Yes, she said that she'd been topping too much and bottoming too little and she was thrilled to find someone who brought out her bottom side. Yes, I ordered him to bring me something to use on him and he deliberately brought me the most painful whip in my collection.

All of that is just barely enough for me to quiet my screaming conscience long enough to actually play.

I always check in with the bottom the next day, to make sure they're okay. Partly this is just common scene ettiquette -- it's what one does. Partly, this is the responsible thing to do, to make sure there are no delayed ill effects. Partly this is to reassure the bottom that my spending three hours beating him doesn't mean I've lost respect for him or anything. Partly, it's so that the bottom can reassure me -- that s/he had a good time, that s/he was not just consenting before and during but after as well, that I wasn't misreading anything about what happened; s/he really did want it.

I find that spending time with other kinky people helps a lot. If I've just seen half a dozen people proudly show off their bruises or just heard half a dozen people talk about the fabulous scene they had last weekend, it normalizes things for me. This isn't all just in my own head (a place where many things can happen! ;D), people really do do these things and want to do them.

I have to buck the tide. No doubts at all. But I'm monogamous and know my wife very well. She's not one to to keep anything back. I listen to her, and take care of her needs, and she mine. I'm entirely confident that this portion of our lives is to our mutual liking.

However, that's my relationship. I might be lousy in one where the pyl had difficulty expressing their wants. I'm not one to overthink things. I rarely question others' reasons for wanting whatever, and accept that they know themselves well enough to say what they mean.

culloden said:

However, that's my relationship. I might be lousy in one where the pyl had difficulty expressing their wants.

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It can be bloody fucking trying at times, let me tell you.

culloden said:

I'm not one to overthink things. I rarely question others' reasons for wanting whatever, and accept that they know themselves well enough to say what they mean.

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It must be very restful to be you.

Corylea said:

It must be very restful to be you.

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It is. On the other hand, people who only hint at their wants don't tend to find me very satisfying. And I find them irritating. So we don't tend to interact for very long, which reinforces my model.

We're all different, and the range of human relationships is stunning.

mistressmaxine said:

This may sound like a really stupid thing to say and you'll probably all jump down my throat but.....does anyone else ever have doubts?

On a good day I am very comfortable with what I'm doing, how I feel, what I need. On a bad day my very presbytrian upbringing kicks in and I know it's all wrong and the way I feel is all wrong.

So am I alone or is there anyone else out there who gets confused and has good and bad days?

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Very rarely anymore but in the first year I often thought "What the fuck am I doing, am I crazy?"

I never thought it was necessarily wrong morally but just not the type of thing a nice officer's wife with 2 kids living in the suburbs should be doing.

Now, more than four years into the relationship it feels right. I do have those times when I am obeying an order I really don't want to do that I may grumble a bit but that's just the way it is and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Homburg said:

It can be bloody fucking trying at times, let me tell you.

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Quoted for truth!

Pet is usually very good at telling me her inner feelings, but sometimes it's like pulling eye teeth.

Speaking of "becoming the monster", Pet and I had a nice long discussion about this a couple of weeks ago. She has an online friend, whom she found out, by accident, was a Dom/Master and once she told him of our dynamic/relationship he had some very serious warnings for her. As it turned out, he had been in a very extreme Master/slave relationship and it took him to places and allowed him to do things that he regrets to the point that he feared for Pet's safety. Pet and I talked about some of the things that this fellow had warned her about and we both realized that I simply am not that guy, and that what makes me perfect for her is the restraint and self control that will never allow me to become the "monster inside".

This may sound kinda stupid but what is it you are doing that is giving you doubts? BDSM is a term used to describe a very large array of activities. Many I would give the same advice that you have already gotten but some I would say you might be right in having some doubts. If you are allowing someone to control you so much that you are not allowed friends or even contact with your own family then I would say you are right to have doubts. This was just one example. Another example might be allowing someone to take all of your money and posessions. In most cases I would agree that it is human to have doubts but you have a right to live your life in a way that pleases you, even if that lifestyle may be somewhat different than the "norm".

subwannabe said:

This may sound kinda stupid but what is it you are doing that is giving you doubts? BDSM is a term used to describe a very large array of activities. Many I would give the same advice that you have already gotten but some I would say you might be right in having some doubts. If you are allowing someone to control you so much that you are not allowed friends or even contact with your own family then I would say you are right to have doubts. This was just one example. Another example might be allowing someone to take all of your money and posessions. In most cases I would agree that it is human to have doubts but you have a right to live your life in a way that pleases you, even if that lifestyle may be somewhat different than the "norm".

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My doubts, when I have them centre around the acts themselves. The fact that I want someone, my Master when he's around, to hurt me and I enjoy it. As someone else said, on the other side of the coin, being whipped, slapped, using nipple clamps, makes me wet. And on a bad day my thoughts centre around whether it's right to feel like that, to crave that.

mistressmaxine said:

My doubts, when I have them centre around the acts themselves. The fact that I want someone, my Master when he's around, to hurt me and I enjoy it. As someone else said, on the other side of the coin, being whipped, slapped, using nipple clamps, makes me wet. And on a bad day my thoughts centre around whether it's right to feel like that, to crave that.

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If it is an addiction then it is not right, but when it is about heightening the sensation between you and your lover then yes it is great!

mistressmaxine said:

My doubts, when I have them centre around the acts themselves. The fact that I want someone, my Master when he's around, to hurt me and I enjoy it. As someone else said, on the other side of the coin, being whipped, slapped, using nipple clamps, makes me wet. And on a bad day my thoughts centre around whether it's right to feel like that, to crave that.

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We're the only species on earth that worries about the morality of our actions. And a lot of people think that makes us more evolved. And closer to God.

It also makes us more conflicted and confused.

My own strategy is to use the periods when I'm doubting myself to take a look at what I'm doing. Sometimes it's good to make small adjustments in the direction you're headed without derailing the whole train.

My doubts usually stem from internal conflicts (like the disjunct between my actual desires and what I think I should want). If I can find a way to resolve those conflicts and untangle those mental knots, I'm much more comfortable with myself and the choices I'm making.

@ OP: I am a Christian, and I will be honest, I have no doubts of my place (and I hope and pray my Husband does not have doubts either).

"And the second is unto the first: you shall love thy neighbor as you love yourself".

That there plays a big role in my comfort level in who and what I am. I certainly cannot literally love my Husband in the same manner as I love myself, just as I cannot literally love my neighbor in the same way as I love my Husband. However, I have to "make do", place myself in their shoes, and be understanding of who and what they are. So, on a sexual level, I take comfort in knowing that, in my submission, I am doing unto my Husband (letting him have exactly what he wants), as I would want him do to me (which, coincidentally, is the exact same thing ^_^).

After all, the Bible never says "Thou shalt not wear leather and permit thy self to be bound in chains and whipped". Hell, the Bible never even says "Thou shalt have sex in the missionary style only". IMHO, I feel the Bible is first promoter of the idea of Safe, Sane, and Consensual (but that's another topic for another day). There is nothing wrong or sinful with kinks... what is one person's kink is another's vanilla... and if you ever have doubts because of your Presbyterian upbringing... go read Song of Solomon... and think of just how kinky it would be to sneak out, fondle your fiance(e), have oral, then get dirty, in the middle of someone's garden. Especially way back then, let alone even now.

Sex, with all its kinks, is good. And if it's safe, sane, and consensual by His definitions, it is so even in God's eyes. ^_~

Not in the slightest. I don't doubt that this has something to do with the fact I've never had the opportunity to act upon them, but like fuck am I going to be ashamed about what I want. Too few people give a damn about me for me to sabotage myself like that.

mistressmaxine said:

My doubts, when I have them centre around the acts themselves. The fact that I want someone, my Master when he's around, to hurt me and I enjoy it. As someone else said, on the other side of the coin, being whipped, slapped, using nipple clamps, makes me wet. And on a bad day my thoughts centre around whether it's right to feel like that, to crave that.

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You're not damaging anyone through your actions, so I don't see a moral issue. If it were simple vanilla sexual pleasure you were craving, would you have the same doubts? What's pleasurable to each of us differs. Nearly any line you could draw in that continuum would be arbitrary. Who's to say that enjoying the sensation of gentle kisses on your nipples is superior to enjoying nipple clamps? That's entirely an individual preference.

The thoughts you are feeling are actually fairly normal. Women are kind of hard wired to be submissive. It's like the caveman dragging a woman by the hair into his cave to fuck her. Most women have learned to overcome this over the centuries but it is still hard wired deep inside them. I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing as long as you can seperate some of these desires and keep them in a seperate area. By that I mean you shouldn't let this control your life to the point where you don't feel any self worth. If you still have self worth and want someone to hurt you because you enjoy it I don't see anything wrong with that.

subwannabe said:

The thoughts you are feeling are actually fairly normal. Women are kind of hard wired to be submissive. It's like the caveman dragging a woman by the hair into his cave to fuck her. Most women have learned to overcome this over the centuries but it is still hard wired deep inside them. I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing as long as you can seperate some of these desires and keep them in a seperate area. By that I mean you shouldn't let this control your life to the point where you don't feel any self worth. If you still have self worth and want someone to hurt you because you enjoy it I don't see anything wrong with that.

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Boy, are YOU wrong!

subwannabe said:

The thoughts you are feeling are actually fairly normal. Women are kind of hard wired to be submissive. It's like the caveman dragging a woman by the hair into his cave to fuck her. Most women have learned to overcome this over the centuries but it is still hard wired deep inside them. I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing as long as you can seperate some of these desires and keep them in a seperate area. By that I mean you shouldn't let this control your life to the point where you don't feel any self worth. If you still have self worth and want someone to hurt you because you enjoy it I don't see anything wrong with that.

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Please, please tell me you do NOT mean what you said there!!!! Years and years of fighting for equality and there you have it.....
"Women are kind of hard wired to be submissive"
Give me strength!!

mistressmaxine said:

Please, please tell me you do NOT mean what you said there!!!! Years and years of fighting for equality and there you have it.....
"Women are kind of hard wired to be submissive"
Give me strength!!

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There are a lot of things we're fairly hard wired to be, that in a civilised society we all repress. Just because we're hard wired that way doesn't mean we have to express it. The most rewarding sexual sub I ever had is also an extremely serious feminist and a very competent career woman. She expressed her submissive side, in our time together, only for sex.

I don't think there's a contradiction between observing that, in our evolutionary adaptation to hunter gatherer society, we have some bloody-un-politically-correct drives and desires, and also accepting that as (partly) rational beings capable of introspection, we can see that these don't always fit well with our concepts of equality, and mutual respect, and justice. We are complicated creatures. We are both intellectual and instinctive.

I expect to do a fair share of the housework. I expect my partner to have strong political opinions and to be able to argue her corner. In most of life, men and women can operate in modern society - and should, in my opinion, operate in modern society - as equals. Not because we're hard wired to act as equals, but because as thinking, self conscious and empathetic beings we choose to act as equals. But that doesn't make subwannnabe wrong, Max - and I think you know it. I think you know that there's a special frisson - for you as well as for him - when a man takes forceful control of your body and uses it for sex.

Hard wiring isn't all we are, thanks be. We can think; we can choose. But just because we can think and choose does not mean that submission is not part of the primitive wiring of many women, or dominance of many men.

Thanks Simon. I agree completely. Hard wired does not mean that's what you are but I don't think anyone can argue there are a lot more submissive women than there are men.

Not really. Volenti non fit injuria.