Philosophy of BDSM

Someone recently asked my thoughts on what bdsm really is and why we are the way we are. I realized that while alot of people on this website as well as many others ask questions about how to's of BDSM. No on really ever addresses the whys of it. WHY do people engage in these sort of activities? Why does Bdsm turn some people on and others off? What is the reason behind it all? What does it really mean to you? Psychologically speaking alot of the activities we engage in are considered wrong and horrible by the majority of society, yet our percentage of people LOVE it. So where does it all come from why do we act the way we do? Ill post my response to him seeing as how i never gave it alot of thought previously, i had a Jerry McGuire movie moment where instead and a short answer i wrote a novel on my personal views on the topic, but i was curious how the rest of you felt and thought. I think that determining the reason behind your own interest in bdsm is almost more important than finding out the how to's like many of you do here....


also i know i havnt been around for a while but i thought this was as good a place as any to look for feedback on these sort of phsyological/ philosophical issues...

what follows was me actually typeing out and putting down my own thoughts on the matter. It is long and might change the way you view BDSM so this is your warning to stop now if you dont want to know some of they WHYS and philosophy behind bdsm according to me.



My own personal philosophy on a D/s lifestyle and what it is and can be:

First off what I think this life style really is. I feel this entire life style is a tool of sorts. Some people say that they have been dominant all there lives, and others say submissive. Some feel they make the choice and just choose to life one way or the other. Others still love bdsm for what it is and are willing to be switches going one side to the other so long as they can be active in the life style. Finally are all the people oblivious to this lifestyle altogether and live vanilla, So what then are people? Is submission and dominance who we are or what we choose to be? My answer to that is what does it matter? We are who we are or who we choose to be then well be. More importantly though is what we do WITH it. BDSM more importantly the D/s side of it is a tool. It has no substance no physical properties it simply is an idea. With this Idea we make of it what we want. There is no right or wrong way to do things other than what our moral code will allow such as not allowing rape, murder, serious bodily injury ect…

Even this however is pushed to its limit by people who think of them selves as EDGY or pushing the limits. Things of this nature are while hopefully still consenting safe and sane are mock rapes, bodily mutilation ect. The truth is though that there are some sick people out they do and sick things. Now I’m sure you understand as much as any one about all the different things people come up with to satisfy there desire for this kink. But what it comes down to in my opinion is what you want to get out of the use of this tool. What you do for a kink is irrelevant if you don’t know why. This is the real question. For why use this tool and have this kink if your not trying to get something out of it. some outcomes for it are:

-Some people just want more exciting sex. I’d say that majority of people fall into this category. Going further on this idea are people who come to websites like collarme simply because they don’t like there current sex life and live through the idea of kinkier sex, often using this idea as mental foreplay of sorts for masturbation or to allow them to keep going with there ordinary mundane lives knowing something more exciting is out there.

-Other people use it and sites like this as just another dating website or group of people to date. Desperately not finding someone in the normal dating world, they search anywhere and everywhere for mr or mrs right. Convincing themselves they will put up with what ever kink the person may have so long as they find THE ONE, maybe even convincing themselves they can then help the person change to be who they really want.

-Lastly are the people who use this tool for a goal. Having a BS in psychology I personally feel the main goal in life is the search for knowledge and the betterment of humanity. Genetically speaking we a prewired for one goal, to reproduce. This of course is designed to lead to evolution. Regardless if you believe in evolution and creationism for explaining our past, Every thing in life from a genetic point of view is shows we are trying to reproduce and make the best possible genetic and environment for our future/ future children. We go to school and try to get a good job so that we can better take care of our selves and provide for our future. Even physical attractions are typically based on biological presidents. Guys liking girls with larger breasts which subliminally shows the concept of a pregnant woman’s engorged breasts with milk, skinny-ness in our modern society is a sign of them taking care of them selves and being healthy. In olden times being overweight was attractive as a sign of wealth and good nutrition when there wasn’t any (Victorian era). On a side note there is a growing trend of men who are attracted to smaller breasts as a result of the common hood of implants preferring natural breasts to the chance of fake ones. These are all signs of good genetics and a potential good mate. Females typically look for males who have similar good looks, and can take care of them and the future family, but you get my point. While slightly off topic my point is we are always searching for ways to improve our selves so we are better candidates for better partners to produce better kids. In short we are always trying to understand our selves better so as to improve on any flaws we have so we can help produce the next generation. Tell me one person who at one point in time never had the idea that they were going to / wanted to change the world and make it better. As we get older we realize making it better is making it better through the next generation, but we must know ourselves to do this.

The tool of D/s can be extremely useful in self discovery. Often stressful and difficult situations are the only way to know who we are. You can tell yourself all you want that if something bad was happening that you would react in a particular way, however until your actually in the situation you really don’t know. There are documented cases of this all the time. For example I don’t recall the exact details of the event but in the news a time back there was a woman being raped and murdered out side of a building. Screaming for help. Yet not a single person picked up the phone and called the police, in fact one guy even video taped it. The reason given that they didn’t call, was that they thought someone else was going to do it. SO by using BDSM as a tool you can put yourself in situations you’d never actually be in and understand as best as you can how you’d really react to situations you probably will never be apart of in real normal everyday life. I think this is probably the reason why rape fantasies are one of the most popular fantasies around. Girls don’t want to be raped, they just want to know if they could handle it if they were. Hence mock rape play.

For a sub it helps push them to there limits and discovers what those limits are. It helps them understand who they are and what they really want in life. Show me someone who has taken crops and whips and enjoys them, and ill show you someone who won’t fear 99% of the situations that can happen to them in every day life. It gives you a sort of empowerment. It also helps them mentally be aware of things they are willing to do and try. For example if a sub is willing to go through humiliation and do things no normal person would willingly do than they have the knowledge and strength that they can handle almost any situation most other peoples wouldn’t be able to mentally. It also helps take away control from every day decisions. You are essentially not responsible for the outcome of any action. For you were following orders. You can look at this negatively or positively. Some people truly just want to exist and let someone else control all the stressful parts of the world and let them just enjoy it. Similar to wanting to be a kid again before you had to pay bills and know the stress of being an adult, in fact some go so far as to go into what they call adult baby play. Where they even wear diapers.

For a dominant it goes more into the power of it, as a Dominant you are essentially responsible for this person in all ways. Often it’s like a practice for being a parent. It’s also allowing yourself to know that you can manipulate situations to helping another on the path of self discovery find themselves. Some use it as an outlet for aggression and hatred of others using it in abusive ways and not in helpful ways. These people disgust me however. A True dominant I my opinion is there to help others and by doing that helping themselves, with of course the added benefit of kinky sex lol. These people tend to thrive on independence and self reliance. They like to be in control of everything around them so that nothing can surprise them. bdsm acts as a tool to control there surroundings so long as they can handle the responsibility of taking care of there sub.

For a switch its an outlet to experience both dominant side and submissive side of themselves and find some sort of balance in there own mind of what they want. On a side note I personally think every one should switch at least once in there lives so that the have a better understanding of the opposite side of the life style. I personally do both sides but identify more as a dominant so label myself as such.

Ultimately however remember bdsm is just a concept there are no real rules except what you give it. That being said the MORAL rules that tend to be the standard are the simple safe sane and consensual. Aka use safe words and do your research on the subject all parties agree to what’s happening, take it slow and don’t do any thing that you or any one else doesn’t want to do. Other than that as long as it doesn’t break any laws or have any negative consequences to others what ever your kink is, HAVE FUN and be creative!!

A well thought-out and written article. Having had, since an age so young I can't even remember, a fascination with such facets of the psyche (which I only learned as an adult is kinda lumped into a term, bdsm), your explanation seems to confirm for me what I have learned intuitively over the years about this subject. Moral considerations (in a dogmatic sense) have nothing to do with it. It is all about play. Play, like everything among civilized people, has rules that provide for mutual safety and consideration (which, in my opinion, is the only true basis of morality). Within any bdsm experience, the participants establish rules first, then play within them. The operative word here is PLAY.

I think you missed one very important point.
For many, this lifestyle is a natural way of being. They don't have any psychological reason behind living it. They don't have a reason nor do they need one because it is them
Living the BDSM lifestyle suits their best interests... because living it... is living as their true natural selves. I believe they would live naturally in the manner that feels right for them, regardless if there was ever a BDSM culture or not.

My eyes slid right off that big screen of words.

Sir_Winston54 said:

Hmmm... so you're saying that people who *live* the lifestyle, particularly those in a 24/7 Dom/sub or Master/slave relationship, are ... let's see ... uncivilized, immoral, inexperienced?

Please try not to attempt to define the entire culture by your own limited experience. It is as broad as any other culture, and moreso than many, and has as many facets and interpretations of what it is *for them* as there are participants.

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Wow! I'm uncivilized, immoral, and inexperienced. Woo hoo. Lmao.

As to the OP I didn't see M/s relationships addressed. So I'm not sure any of it applies. ADD and a lot of reading though, so I'm willing to admit I may have missed something.

Well, there's a philosophy of everything else, so why not BDSM? Hell, sartre probably wrote actual serious works on it, knowing his tastes.

I just felt it was something that hasn't ever really been discussed on here before. Every one has there own reasons for why they enjoy and do what they do. I'm simply asking your thoughts on it after i shared my own....

My thought is that I would be happy to discuss it if you could maybe summarize.

Etoile said:

My thought is that I would be happy to discuss it if you could maybe summarize.

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its not THAT long...

trojan_man_co said:

its not THAT long...

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I've tried to read it twice now and failed. As an interesting exercise, I will make it more readable by improving grammar, spacing, spelling, and punctuation while retaining your original content.

Wow, as I'm working on this, it's quite...surprising. Eugenics? Kitty Genovese? Really?

I shall continue.

Etoile said:

I've tried to read it twice now and failed. As an interesting exercise, I will make it more readable by improving grammar, spacing, spelling, and punctuation while retaining your original content.

Wow, as I'm working on this, it's quite...surprising. Eugenics? Kitty Genovese? Really?

I shall continue.

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lol never said i had a degree in english... psychology yes english no...

trojan_man_co said:

lol never said i had a degree in english... psychology yes english no...

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Yes you did say that in there.

Okay, I've now read it, in my redrafted form.

I guess the basic problem I have with your premise is the idea that we are here to reproduce successfully. Quite frankly, I have no interest in reproduction. I don't believe we are necessarily hard-wired for such a thing; if we were, there wouldn't be any gay people, since being gay is necessarily opposed to being hard-wired for reproduction. (Plenty of gay people are parents, want to be parents, want their own natural children, etc - but they don't want to have intercourse with the opposite sex to do it.)

If we WERE hard-wired for reproduction, I don't think we're hard-wired to be into eugenics. That's what you describe, really - the idea that ALL of our interests in a mate are based on producing the best possible offspring. Eugenics was quite popular in the 1930s, I have some familiarity with the theory, and I'm pretty sure it's not hard-wired. People make some really dumbass choices in terms of who they're attracted to. If we were hard-wired for eugenics, geeks would be awfully lonely.

You made a reference to the Kitty Genovese murder - in 1964, she was attacked on the street and eventually killed; people heard her screaming but no one called for help. Of course this has happened many times since, so I don't doubt that an incident was videotaped, but Kitty Genovese is the most famous example.

I fail to see how BDSM prepares anyone for dealing with a situation like Kitty Genovese. What could possibly prepare you for that situation? In fact, how can any "stress situation" in BDSM prepare you for the myriad things that can happen in everyday life? I would think that BDSM can give you coping mechanisms if you find yourself in a stressful situation, but I hardly think that BDSM prepares you for any of it.

As for mock rapes, IMHO you are WAY off the mark. No form of mock abduction, mock rape, etc. prepares you for the real thing. No way, no how. Those are sexual acts, and REAL rape is not a sexual act. It is a power act. Mock rape is a sex act employing power, but it in no way resembles the actual power act of rape.

I also don't see how loving to be caned prepares you for 99% of the situations in everyday life, unless you really like chewing gum in Singapore.

I agree that switching for just one scene is a good idea for everybody, but not so they know what they want - most people who are not switches are pretty confident in their role. But rather, I think switching once or twice gives the participants a better appreciation of all the thought, care, dedication, and devotion that goes into their partner's role.

Now I'VE gone and done the tl;dr thing. Feel free to pelt me with lolcats.

Actually, there's a whole section of the BDSM Library sticky on Philosophy... some interesting threads, too.

As to the subject/question at hand... meh... when I first started putting two and two together, I felt quite driven to figure out why I am how/who/what I am. Was it X? Was it Y? If Z hadn't happened would I be like this? At some point along the way, I reached a place where I view my "kinks" as an orientation - similar to identifying oneself as bisexual or gay.

People don't have to understand it, agree with it, support it, or believe in it. I do; good enough. And interestingly enough, saying "Eh, this is just part of the package... sort of like how I can't go back and change my eye color or the fact that I love to bake" seems to have taken a lot of the shock value out of things.

CutieMouse said:

Actually, there's a whole section of the BDSM Library sticky on Philosophy... some interesting threads, too.

As to the subject/question at hand... meh... when I first started putting two and two together, I felt quite driven to figure out why I am how/who/what I am. Was it X? Was it Y? If Z hadn't happened would I be like this? At some point along the way, I reached a place where I view my "kinks" as an orientation - similar to identifying oneself as bisexual or gay.

People don't have to understand it, agree with it, support it, or believe in it. I do; good enough. And interestingly enough, saying "Eh, this is just part of the package... sort of like how I can't go back and change my eye color or the fact that I love to bake" seems to have taken a lot of the shock value out of things.

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I feel much the same. To quote a good friend "I yam what I yam". Spending too long trying to work out why just takes time away from enjoying life.

Finding a dominant partner is just another checkbox in the great list of "things that make him perfect for me". Granted, it's right near the top, but it's not the be all and end all. It's just another aspect of them, and I don't need to know the whys and wherefores of what makes them tick to their own beat either.

I think it is possible for a person with an open mind and some intelligence mixed with comon sense to be able to understand why a person might like something, but I think it is impossible for anyone to actual explain why a person likes anything.

I like butter pecan ice cream. Why? Haven't a clue, but I know I like it. I probably could write an analysis or try to derive a philisophical view of why I like butter pecan Ice cream moreso than other flavers of icecream ect..., but at the end of it all, if you asked me why...I would simply shrug and say, "I dunno, I just do."

I think everything here has been discussed at least five times over the years. Except why 82% of my readers would lick my asshole when in reality it is no where near that high.

Welp, seeing as how we're talking degrees, I have one in philosophy. I've read, and written, loads on the topic. What you mention above is less philosophy and more psychology. Probably appropriate given your background. Philosophy tackles different questions, such as why we procreate at all in a broken world, but I guess I get where you are coming from.

In general, you are talking about motivations, not philosophy. Well, unless you are using "philosophy" in a more personal sense to indicate the guiding principles, if you will, behind a given person's sexual decisions.

Philosophy asks the meta-questions. Less, "Why do you like BDSM?" and more "What does it mean to like any given thing?" RJ touches on this in his example of butter pecan. Answer me what it means to "like" or "prefer" something, and why, and we can boost this thread into the realm of philosophy. Until then, motivations might be a better arena of discussion.

My motivation? Simply put, it makes me hard. I don't really feel the need for too awful much introspection beyond that insofar as power and sex are concerned. I have spent much more time examining my motivations behind my poly predilection.

trojan_man_co said:

Someone recently asked my thoughts on what bdsm really is and why we are the way we are. I realized that while alot of people on this website as well as many others ask questions about how to's of BDSM. No on really ever addresses the whys of it.

Click to expand...

That's not true. The "whys" have been discussed and hashed and re-hashed and beaten over the head and then discussed all over again numerous times even in the short amount of time I've been on this board. If you can't find the threads discussing this you must not be looking properly.

trojan_man_co said:

Lastly are the people who use this tool for a goal. Having a BS in psychology I personally feel the main goal in life is the search for knowledge and the betterment of humanity. Genetically speaking we a prewired for one goal, to reproduce. This of course is designed to lead to evolution. Regardless if you believe in evolution and creationism for explaining our past, Every thing in life from a genetic point of view is shows we are trying to reproduce and make the best possible genetic and environment for our future/ future children. We go to school and try to get a good job so that we can better take care of our selves and provide for our future. Even physical attractions are typically based on biological presidents. Guys liking girls with larger breasts which subliminally shows the concept of a pregnant woman’s engorged breasts with milk, skinny-ness in our modern society is a sign of them taking care of them selves and being healthy. In olden times being overweight was attractive as a sign of wealth and good nutrition when there wasn’t any (Victorian era). On a side note there is a growing trend of men who are attracted to smaller breasts as a result of the common hood of implants preferring natural breasts to the chance of fake ones. These are all signs of good genetics and a potential good mate. Females typically look for males who have similar good looks, and can take care of them and the future family, but you get my point. While slightly off topic my point is we are always searching for ways to improve our selves so we are better candidates for better partners to produce better kids. In short we are always trying to understand our selves better so as to improve on any flaws we have so we can help produce the next generation. Tell me one person who at one point in time never had the idea that they were going to / wanted to change the world and make it better. As we get older we realize making it better is making it better through the next generation, but we must know ourselves to do this.

Click to expand...

The filter theory of evolution is outdated at this point. The whole ubermensh concept is totally flawed for one simple reason, if we are all homogeneous, then the same thing can kill us all. Evolution does not refine, evolution does almost the opposite, it diversifies. Sure you can say that all past creatures have lead to us, or you can zoom out, and see that the tree of life only branches out, it does not bottleneck.

Anyway, the whole point is evolution is flexible, it bends with whatever forces push on it. It changes constantly, and within each generation provides variety within the same species. Some are tall, some short, some smart, some dumb, some strong, some weak, etc. Behavior is one of those things that can change most drastically. Like in some part of Africa you have lions that hunt in swamps, despite felines fearing water.

D/s, I think, is just channeling some instinctive behavior. Most mammals dominate others by beating, screaming, fucking, and punishing. Sex is that one sanctioned activity that lets us tap into that.

00Syd said:

That's not true. The "whys" have been discussed and hashed and re-hashed and beaten over the head and then discussed all over again numerous times even in the short amount of time I've been on this board. If you can't find the threads discussing this you must not be looking properly.

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Indeed, I even have graphs.

YourCaptor said:

Indeed, I even have graphs.

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You would.

YourCaptor said:

The filter theory of evolution is outdated at this point. The whole ubermensh concept is totally flawed for one simple reason, if we are all homogeneous, then the same thing can kill us all. Evolution does not refine, evolution does almost the opposite, it diversifies. Sure you can say that all past creatures have lead to us, or you can zoom out, and see that the tree of life only branches out, it does not bottleneck.

Anyway, the whole point is evolution is flexible, it bends with whatever forces push on it. It changes constantly, and within each generation provides variety within the same species. Some are tall, some short, some smart, some dumb, some strong, some weak, etc. Behavior is one of those things that can change most drastically. Like in some part of Africa you have lions that hunt in swamps, despite felines fearing water.

D/s, I think, is just channeling some instinctive behavior. Most mammals dominate others by beating, screaming, fucking, and punishing. Sex is that one sanctioned activity that lets us tap into that.

Click to expand...

Agree here.

Also we can grow people in a test tube. Our technology IS our main adaptation, it's our giraffes' neck. Eventually your neck can get too long, your legs too spindly and you fall over, but the adaptation is, on the whole, to the advantage.

So we've been assimilating our technology more and more.

If anything we're headed for fat, short-lived, and short of attention - hardly the ubermenshcen. D/s isn't sorting anyone - it's a reactionary drive to catch things we're out of touch with. Whether it's animalism, power, balance, family dynamic, gender roles, reverse gender roles, fetishistic object lust, controlled violence - the motives are going to vary so much from person to person that I'm not sure you can say any pattern holds.