PYL's aftercare

I was reading something over @Fetlife and it got me thinking.

On a thread regarding the fact that PYLs too need aftercare, many PYLs were saying that they needed to be reassured by their pyl that what they did during the scene (the pain that was inflicted) was ok and that the pyl enjoyed him/herself.
Someone put it as the PYL needing to be reassured that he/she is not a bad guy for inflicting such pain ("showing me that I am not a monster").

I'm all for showing gratitude to my PYL. And honestly for me the best aftercare I can receive is to be allowed to take care of my PYL with a massage or a bath or both. And I do not mind reassuring that the accidental scratch on my forehead or the rope burn on my arm are not a big deal.

But: if I have to reassure the PYL that his sadistic/controlling desires do not make him sick ... we are not playing. I want a PYL that is in a point of his life that he understand and accept himself, kinky deviant desires and all. I'm sorry but I do not think it is the pyl's job to soothe the PYL's guilty conscience.

Of course, if we are discussing something new and edgy that he has gotten fascinated with, I can see having such a conversation.

Thoughts? Comments?

Feel free to expand according to the title and describe as a PYL what do you want/need after a scene, or to recover from Top-drop.

My needs are simple. A belly rub and perhaps a glass of tasty iced tea.

I think what you are getting at here are a couple of things.

1. The top is not in tune with the subbie and for some reason is not reading her body language, mood, etc....

2. The subbie is topping by making the dom push him/her self beyond what they are comfortable with.

From my point of view, I am a monster. People see me coming and rarely is their reaction normal. Some shy away, others take it as a challenge and try to stare me down in passing. A very few of the ladies and more left leaning men peek but it's not my concern.

I think if the top is feeling guilty for their actions then they have stepped outside of where there fantasy is safe and exciting and found the reality to be not to their liking and they should reassess their role in bdsm.. maybe pull it back to a comfy level and work to assert themselves within their comfort zones.

Also, this... *points to teh belleh*

Aftercare is for sissies.

When I toped I did demand a cuddle and feedback, but not so much reasurance. I honestly didn't care if he enjoyed himself or not. This wasn't about him, it was all about me, and if I'm satisfied then it was a good play date.

What I haven't come to grips with fully is my own sadistic side as a sub. I'm really not a top, I don't enjoy the top side of things, but I do enjoy inflicting pain. Jounar endulges me from time to time, but I have a hard time with that because my mind tends to go into D/s mode and freaks out because the roles appear to be reversed. It frusterates him to no end that I can't easily seperate the sadistic acts with being a PYL. So I do need a bit of reasurance in this situation.

Jounar loved letting me rest in his arms after we played. He'd ask basic questions for feedback, but that was about it. It wasn't so much about reasurance, just things to let him know if maybe something else would work better.

Most of the PYLs I've played with have allowed me a cuddle, and while I'm cuddling ask for feedback. I've always considered this as a treat for me, but perhaps that's a little egotistical.

I could see it in terms of "Yeah, I didn't think I could take it that hard, but you made me enjoy it despite myself" or "I think next time I'd like to try it even harder" type of thing. Just so the two of you can come to terms with limits and techniques that work for you both.

But yeah, not conscience-soothing. If he's feeling that kind of guilt, then he's probably outside his realm, as was mentioned above.

Betticus said:

My needs are simple. A belly rub and perhaps a glass of tasty iced tea.

I think what you are getting at here are a couple of things.

1. The top is not in tune with the subbie and for some reason is not reading her body language, mood, etc....

2. The subbie is topping by making the dom push him/her self beyond what they are comfortable with.

*snip*

Click to expand...

I could see 1 happening in a casual play type situation and would consider that more of a revue of the scene than "aftercare".

As for 2: if you are not comfortable, you should not go there. Especially if you are the PYL. But I'm not a PYL so perhaps I have it all wrong ...

*pass Betticus a tall glass of cold iced tea and rub his belly*

WriterDom said:

Aftercare is for sissies.

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Careful ... sissies might get offended ...

the captians wench said:

When I toped I did demand a cuddle and feedback, but not so much reasurance. I honestly didn't care if he enjoyed himself or not. This wasn't about him, it was all about me, and if I'm satisfied then it was a good play date.

What I haven't come to grips with fully is my own sadistic side as a sub. I'm really not a top, I don't enjoy the top side of things, but I do enjoy inflicting pain. Jounar endulges me from time to time, but I have a hard time with that because my mind tends to go into D/s mode and freaks out because the roles appear to be reversed. It frusterates him to no end that I can't easily seperate the sadistic acts with being a PYL. So I do need a bit of reasurance in this situation.

Jounar loved letting me rest in his arms after we played. He'd ask basic questions for feedback, but that was about it. It wasn't so much about reasurance, just things to let him know if maybe something else would work better.

Most of the PYLs I've played with have allowed me a cuddle, and while I'm cuddling ask for feedback. I've always considered this as a treat for me, but perhaps that's a little egotistical.

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Being that you are usually the pyl and on the receiving end, I can see how it would feel confusing.

The only two times I tried Topping ... I was basically being totally Topped from the bottom as I just don't have it in me

Although strangely ... I don't have a problem with inflicting slowly growing steady pain ... I actually find watching the reaction fascinating ...

RawHumor said:

I could see it in terms of "Yeah, I didn't think I could take it that hard, but you made me enjoy it despite myself" or "I think next time I'd like to try it even harder" type of thing. Just so the two of you can come to terms with limits and techniques that work for you both.

But yeah, not conscience-soothing. If he's feeling that kind of guilt, then he's probably outside his realm, as was mentioned above.

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Exactly. Nothing wrong with stroking the PYL's ego rolleyes or giving him feedback or ideas for the next time (I however keep my mouth shut on this).

However if he feels guilty, to me it means he is not ready to go there yet.

rida said:

But: if I have to reassure the PYL that his sadistic/controlling desires do not make him sick ... we are not playing. I want a PYL that is in a point of his life that he understand and accept himself, kinky deviant desires and all. I'm sorry but I do not think it is the pyl's job to soothe the PYL's guilty conscience.

Of course, if we are discussing something new and edgy that he has gotten fascinated with, I can see having such a conversation.

Click to expand...

This. Well, these. I don't need post-scene reassurance that I'm not a monster, and haven't for a long time. I do what I do because I want to do it. I don't blame a new top for wanting some hand-holding afterwards, but would likely wonder at someone who'd been at it a while and needed that.

After unfamiliar edgeplay, yeah. If I do something wicked that I have little experience with, I will want feedback. If it is something likewise wicked and the bottom has no/little experience with it, I will want feedback. Feedback is not, however, "aftercare".

ETA: There are things out there that might be seen as aftercare, and I don't see that way. Post-coital cuddling and the like is an expression of affection. Some may find it helpful, and thus aftercare, but that is not always the motivation.

rida said:

I was reading something over @Fetlife and it got me thinking.

On a thread regarding the fact that PYLs too need aftercare, many PYLs were saying that they needed to be reassured by their pyl that what they did during the scene (the pain that was inflicted) was ok and that the pyl enjoyed him/herself.
Someone put it as the PYL needing to be reassured that he/she is not a bad guy for inflicting such pain ("showing me that I am not a monster").

I'm all for showing gratitude to my PYL. And honestly for me the best aftercare I can receive is to be allowed to take care of my PYL with a massage or a bath or both. And I do not mind reassuring that the accidental scratch on my forehead or the rope burn on my arm are not a big deal.

But: if I have to reassure the PYL that his sadistic/controlling desires do not make him sick ... we are not playing. I want a PYL that is in a point of his life that he understand and accept himself, kinky deviant desires and all. I'm sorry but I do not think it is the pyl's job to soothe the PYL's guilty conscience.

Of course, if we are discussing something new and edgy that he has gotten fascinated with, I can see having such a conversation.

Thoughts? Comments?

Feel free to expand according to the title and describe as a PYL what do you want/need after a scene, or to recover from Top-drop.

Click to expand...

I think you are right, it's totally not your job as bottom to soothe my guilt. My guilt has to be processed by me. If a bottom feels *inclined* to say something nice to me along those lines, I'm touched by it, but it's not his job.

I disagree that the guilty top is an unsafe and unfit top. It's only interesting to me if I feel a little guilty when I'm over, if not I'm doing things I *am* entirely 100 percent sure of, and that's nice but it's not spicy.

Then again, my response to all aftercare issues is pretty much, put on your big girl panties and don't do things you aren't able to cope with. Whatever your orientation in the life - it's also not the job of the Top to *make you feel ok about what you did* perhaps to *give you the controlled conditions to make you feel ok about what you did*.

Aftercare is for sissies. I tend to feel rather soft and caretaking and post-coital some of the time, but that's just because I do, not because it was in the manual. I want to be treated sweetly because T *wants* to not because it's some contractual expectation.

What I want from a bottom after a scene? A hug if it feels right, gratitude for my energies I put into it, the chance to express mine, time to come down without them crawling all over me, and a chance to touch base. Packing up all the scene shit is a plus.

Thank-yous are important to me, because they have a sense of formality and closure. I know that when I'm with T I *do* need the sense of "and now I'm putting you back into the mundane world until next time, Kitten" or else I do experience some pretty wicked drop. I have no problem doing that for people.

I don't care how 24/7 you are, there is a difference between your mundane reality doing your laundry and having a cock in your ass, and there's a jarring when you shift back into city gear.

Neither the PYL nor the pyl should need to be made to feel better for what they did or accepted from the other. You have to come to terms with yourself for yourself on both ends of the spectrum.

I want to cuddle just because I want to. It isn't because I need it to reassure me that I'm ok. I know I'm ok. You of all people know that it took a while for me to get to where I felt ok with myself and what I wanted. However, I had to do it for me and no one could make me feel that way. Besides if someone else made me feel that way, when that person was gone, where would I be? Right back at square one.

Being in a LDR we only get to see each once in a while. My PYL has never asked for reassurance that whatever he did wasn't too painful/too extreme whatever. But he does make sure I take care of myself afterwards (ice or taking care of cuts etc) I think to a certain extent making sure I do this is a kind of aftrcare for him, too.

It is now become routine that after a visit I write up an account of how I felt about the visit and whatever we did. It was his idea because I was having problems with subdrop going from 48 hrs of intense play then getting on an airplane and transitioning to vanilla wife and mother life. Though he has never asked for reassurance I find I need to reassure him in these accounts that I was ok during especially degrading/painful play.

I certainly wouldn't think less of him or think he was a sissy if he asked me for reassurance, especially at this point in our relationship.

The only time I ever felt like I needed to reassure Seb after a scene was one time when he tried something new and it went pretty badly. He beat himself up about it for a good while, and yes, while its true that I had a pretty bad reaction, it wasn't the complete end of the world and I felt like I need to make sure that he knew that I was ultimately okay. I didn't feel like, wow, this guys such a wuss. I felt like he was feeling a little unsure as to how much damage he did and also probably feeling worried about me, and the only way for him to know that I was okay was for me to tell him. Yes, of course tops should be able to handle themselves, as should bottoms, but there will be times when everyone comes across something that puts them off their footing a little bit and I don't think it reflects badly on anyone to need a little reassurance after. That doesn't make anybody, top or bottom, a wuss or weak or unfit for the lifestyle, it just makes them pretty damn normal, as far as I'm concerned.

And needing a little cuddle after a scene is not an exclusively bottom need. Its just nice to be close to the person you care about after something intense, no matter how hard and tough and domly you might be.

Netzach said:

there is a difference between your mundane reality doing your laundry and having a cock in your ass.

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Unless you happen to do laundry with a cock in your ass. ;->

I'm not sure if you could call this aftercare, but if I see her limping, or if shes not responding like I know she would, a cold shock of "oh shit I damaged her" jumps though my mind. It's not so much about injury as it is about her being changed. I also hate the next thought that comes along, it's so despicable, but I think, "people are gonna notice this."

In such cases her aftercare is also my aftercare. Looking after her, making sure shes alright, it settles the nerves.

I'm surprised at how many people love to cuddle afterwards.

It's so nice to feel normal!

Cuddles are teh secks.

satindesire said:

I'm surprised at how many people love to cuddle afterwards.

It's so nice to feel normal!

Cuddles are teh secks.

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Heh... I'll admit to being an after-cuddler...

YourCaptor said:

I'm not sure if you could call this aftercare, but if I see her limping, or if shes not responding like I know she would, a cold shock of "oh shit I damaged her" jumps though my mind. It's not so much about injury as it is about her being changed. I also hate the next thought that comes along, it's so despicable, but I think, "people are gonna notice this."

In such cases her aftercare is also my aftercare. Looking after her, making sure shes alright, it settles the nerves.

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why do you say things like this that make the damaged screwed-up part of me like you so much. *sigh*

Chiming in for the 'enjoys cuddling afterward' but not for assuaging guilt.

I like cuddling because I really, really appreciate what women endure on my behalf and like to show my appreciation. It's not so much whether or not they enjoyed it, because in any given time I might not particularly care if they're into what I'm doing, just that they're willing to take it for me and that it's not pushing them into or over any hard limits.

I'm a dom because I'm into inflicting my will sexually, and that expresses itself largely in sadism. No guilt whatsoever about that.

rida said:

Thoughts? Comments?

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Whatever floats his boat.

And I bet you guys just like cuddling for the sake of cuddling too. ADMIT IT!! ADMIT IT!!

Homburg said:

This. Well, these. I don't need post-scene reassurance that I'm not a monster, and haven't for a long time. I do what I do because I want to do it. I don't blame a new top for wanting some hand-holding afterwards, but would likely wonder at someone who'd been at it a while and needed that.

After unfamiliar edgeplay, yeah. If I do something wicked that I have little experience with, I will want feedback. If it is something likewise wicked and the bottom has no/little experience with it, I will want feedback. Feedback is not, however, "aftercare".

ETA: There are things out there that might be seen as aftercare, and I don't see that way. Post-coital cuddling and the like is an expression of affection. Some may find it helpful, and thus aftercare, but that is not always the motivation.

Click to expand...

Yes. Feedback is important as it gives insights and tools to go forward.
And cuddling ... that is always nice.

Netzach said:

I think you are right, it's totally not your job as bottom to soothe my guilt. My guilt has to be processed by me. If a bottom feels *inclined* to say something nice to me along those lines, I'm touched by it, but it's not his job.

I disagree that the guilty top is an unsafe and unfit top. It's only interesting to me if I feel a little guilty when I'm over, if not I'm doing things I *am* entirely 100 percent sure of, and that's nice but it's not spicy.

Then again, my response to all aftercare issues is pretty much, put on your big girl panties and don't do things you aren't able to cope with. Whatever your orientation in the life - it's also not the job of the Top to *make you feel ok about what you did* perhaps to *give you the controlled conditions to make you feel ok about what you did*.

Aftercare is for sissies. I tend to feel rather soft and caretaking and post-coital some of the time, but that's just because I do, not because it was in the manual. I want to be treated sweetly because T *wants* to not because it's some contractual expectation.

What I want from a bottom after a scene? A hug if it feels right, gratitude for my energies I put into it, the chance to express mine, time to come down without them crawling all over me, and a chance to touch base. Packing up all the scene shit is a plus.

Thank-yous are important to me, because they have a sense of formality and closure. I know that when I'm with T I *do* need the sense of "and now I'm putting you back into the mundane world until next time, Kitten" or else I do experience some pretty wicked drop. I have no problem doing that for people.

I don't care how 24/7 you are, there is a difference between your mundane reality doing your laundry and having a cock in your ass, and there's a jarring when you shift back into city gear.

Click to expand...

I agree that on your take that feeling a bit guilty because you have been pushing your own envelop does not make you unsafe to play with.

And I agree that when it comes to accept what you have done, on either side of the whip, you should just get your big girls panties on and deal with it.

The same as I do not see my role as the pyl to sooth the guilty feeling for what the PYL desires, I also see that it is not the PYL's role to sooth the pyl's guilty feelings either.

Aftercare, on both end is indeed a way to transition back to the mundane. As the Sadist told me at our first meeting: making sure that you can walk back in the world. Still, in my case, it does not keep me from experiencing sub-drop.

As for expressing gratitude, your post made me think as I realized that since most of the time what happen in a scene is purely for the Sadist's satisfaction and pleasure, I don't feel the need to go overboard with expressing gratitude. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful but what I'm grateful for is that he enjoyed himself.

ultramarineblue said:

Neither the PYL nor the pyl should need to be made to feel better for what they did or accepted from the other. You have to come to terms with yourself for yourself on both ends of the spectrum.

I want to cuddle just because I want to. It isn't because I need it to reassure me that I'm ok. I know I'm ok. You of all people know that it took a while for me to get to where I felt ok with myself and what I wanted. However, I had to do it for me and no one could make me feel that way. Besides if someone else made me feel that way, when that person was gone, where would I be? Right back at square one.

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Yep. Spot on.

ecstaticsub said:

Being in a LDR we only get to see each once in a while. My PYL has never asked for reassurance that whatever he did wasn't too painful/too extreme whatever. But he does make sure I take care of myself afterwards (ice or taking care of cuts etc) I think to a certain extent making sure I do this is a kind of aftrcare for him, too.

It is now become routine that after a visit I write up an account of how I felt about the visit and whatever we did. It was his idea because I was having problems with subdrop going from 48 hrs of intense play then getting on an airplane and transitioning to vanilla wife and mother life. Though he has never asked for reassurance I find I need to reassure him in these accounts that I was ok during especially degrading/painful play.

I certainly wouldn't think less of him or think he was a sissy if he asked me for reassurance, especially at this point in our relationship.

Click to expand...

At the end of the day, we are all human and as such feel unsure from time to time. I would not think less of my PYL if I had to reassure him from time to time. And I too make a point, in my follow up "thank you" e-mail to express the fact that I was and am ok.

00Syd said:

The only time I ever felt like I needed to reassure Seb after a scene was one time when he tried something new and it went pretty badly. He beat himself up about it for a good while, and yes, while its true that I had a pretty bad reaction, it wasn't the complete end of the world and I felt like I need to make sure that he knew that I was ultimately okay. I didn't feel like, wow, this guys such a wuss. I felt like he was feeling a little unsure as to how much damage he did and also probably feeling worried about me, and the only way for him to know that I was okay was for me to tell him. Yes, of course tops should be able to handle themselves, as should bottoms, but there will be times when everyone comes across something that puts them off their footing a little bit and I don't think it reflects badly on anyone to need a little reassurance after. That doesn't make anybody, top or bottom, a wuss or weak or unfit for the lifestyle, it just makes them pretty damn normal, as far as I'm concerned.

And needing a little cuddle after a scene is not an exclusively bottom need. Its just nice to be close to the person you care about after something intense, no matter how hard and tough and domly you might be.

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This remind me of the time things went south during a scene with Hubby.
Boy was that hard and emotionally painful. It was all a series of misunderstanding that left me having to do the soothing and reassuring when I myself was in a totally vulnerable mental state. I confess that for a couple of days I resented it. I resented having to do the reassuring: I felt like smacking him around and tell him to be a grown up, that sometimes things do not go well but you cannot get yourself overwhelmed with whatever and leave me to have to take care of everything!

I think that being that we are married, it makes things easier and harder at the same time. The transition to mundane has to take place within the same environment and makes it harder at time to compartmentalize emotions.

YourCaptor said:

I'm not sure if you could call this aftercare, but if I see her limping, or if shes not responding like I know she would, a cold shock of "oh shit I damaged her" jumps though my mind. It's not so much about injury as it is about her being changed. I also hate the next thought that comes along, it's so despicable, but I think, "people are gonna notice this."

In such cases her aftercare is also my aftercare. Looking after her, making sure shes alright, it settles the nerves.

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Yep. I can see that. And I'm sure it crosses the mind of many. But few dare admit it.

ZRT said:

Chiming in for the 'enjoys cuddling afterward' but not for assuaging guilt.

I like cuddling because I really, really appreciate what women endure on my behalf and like to show my appreciation. It's not so much whether or not they enjoyed it, because in any given time I might not particularly care if they're into what I'm doing, just that they're willing to take it for me and that it's not pushing them into or over any hard limits.

I'm a dom because I'm into inflicting my will sexually, and that expresses itself largely in sadism. No guilt whatsoever about that.

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So many votes for cuddling! LOL

I love it too, by the way.

Primalex said:

Whatever floats his boat.

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Yes, indeed.
And what does float yours? If I may ask?

edited.

satindesire said:

And I bet you guys just like cuddling for the sake of cuddling too. ADMIT IT!! ADMIT IT!!

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Guilty as charged, I'm afraid. Do I have to turn in my man card?

MisterSir said:

Guilty as charged, I'm afraid. Do I have to turn in my man card?

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Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, I'll give you a punch token on the card for being a cuddler.

If you get fifty punches, you'll get an extra penis for free.