Old 10-11-2014, 04:20 PM   #1
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
 
Senna Jawa is offline
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sqrt(-1)
Posts: 2,566
wh--2014/10/10

-




when i die
my decease will die with me
and our dreams











wh,
2014-10-10
-
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014, 03:23 PM   #2
pelegrino
Literotica Guru
 
pelegrino is offline
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 644
I've read this a few days ago in my trips
and I don't really understand it but it makes me melancholic.
Why?
I hope all is well.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-21-2014, 10:30 PM   #3
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
 
Senna Jawa is offline
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sqrt(-1)
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelegrino View Post
I've read this a few days ago in my trips
and I don't really understand it but it makes me melancholic.
Why?
I hope all is well.
I am fine (relatively ). Thank you, pelegrino, for a kind comment.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-24-2014, 02:29 PM   #4
twelveoone
ground zero
 
twelveoone is offline
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,836
the air is still
with temperature neither hot nor cold
i think of
in silence
what cannot pass
only silence
has found a home
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-24-2014, 10:45 PM   #5
Tzara
Dandy
 
Tzara's Avatar
 
Tzara is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 6,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post
-




when i die
my decease will die with me
and our dreams











wh,
2014-10-10
-
I quite like this poem. It expresses (as I interpret it) my own agonsticism/atheism, but also one of the effects of death--that everything of myself ceases with my death, but that what we share with our loved ones also dies there as well. The last line makes the poem.

I do find the lowercase "i" irritating, though. It's stylistic, but it draws attention to itself, which detracts from the poem.
__________________
The worst moment for the atheist is when he is really thankful and has nobody to thank.
—Dante Gabriel Rossetti
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-25-2014, 03:08 AM   #6
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
 
Senna Jawa is offline
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sqrt(-1)
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara View Post
[...] (as I interpret it) my own agonsticism/atheism, but also one of the effects of death
Thank you, Tzara.

Mood (pelegrino), meaning (Tzara)--I am glad. The poetry is not so much in the negation (here it actually is) but first of all in what exists (here the two are totally intertwined).

Quote:
I do find the lowercase "i" irritating, though. It's stylistic, but it draws attention to itself, which detracts from the poem.
Tzara, you could say the same about many differences between poetry and prose.: irritating, draws attention to itself. The lower case i (for I) has existed in English poetry for a long-long time. On the top of it, we have the Internet.

Tsara, say tolerance, think tolerance.

To me this "i" is a small part of the large issue, indeed, of the whole concept of poetry:
Every element of a poem has to contribute to poetry.
This by the way is the mature idea, not an accidental, partially true formulation--true just statistically only--like remove any unnecessary word. Even in the beginning of Internet I promoted, and with success, my earlier version:
placebo kills poetry
This is way more profound than the simplistic avoiding unnecessary words.

Now let's go back to the issue. Simplicity and the default should be the lower case only. One should introduce the upper case only when there is a poetic reason for this--be it a proper name or grammatical "I", etc. Thus a mature poetry reader should understand that unless there is a special artistic reason, it is the upper case "I" which is irritating, draws attention to itself, detracts from the poem. Prose is prose, and poetry is poetry.

I could make finer points, I could go on and on but ... never mind .
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-25-2014, 06:54 AM   #7
pelegrino
Literotica Guru
 
pelegrino is offline
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post

Now let's go back to the issue. Simplicity and the default should be the lower case only. One should introduce the upper case only when there is a poetic reason for this--be it a proper name or grammatical "I", etc. Thus a mature poetry reader should understand that unless there is a special artistic reason, it is the upper case "I" which is irritating, draws attention to itself, detracts from the poem. Prose is prose, and poetry is poetry.

I could make finer points, I could go on and on but ... never mind .
I tend to agree here, but even grammatically I find the upper case illogical as it does not exist in other language's grammar. Why in English the "I" is more important than the "you"? It does not make sense to me and optically I find it hilarious sometimes and giving a sense of imbalance in poetic emphasis. I mean, look at this:
"you and I". Grammatically correct but in most cases makes a monkey of the intended effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post
placebo kills poetry
I agree, but some of it needs killing.
(Thinking of some of my own, that is)
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-11-2014, 09:49 PM   #8
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
 
Senna Jawa is offline
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sqrt(-1)
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelegrino View Post
I've read this a few days ago in my trips
and I don't really understand it but it makes me melancholic.
Why?
I hope all is well.
There is a beautiful poem from the early Internet (r.a.p.) which made me think about entropy. In my private correspondence with the author, he agreed with me, and even said that's what poetry is about in this example, or even in general. Since then I pay attention to entropy. I consider entropy to be one of important artistic means.

The entropy effect has only a little chance to appear in short poems, perhaps only marginally. Perhaps it has happened in the case of my post. Possibly the fact that pelegrino was in travel has amplified the effect.

When I talk about entropy in poetry, I don't mean complete mess. Instead there should be a phase transition state. Things are still logical but then you may get overloaded, thus things may seem complicated, and you loose control.

PS. One more time (as hopeless as it seems) I will try to start two more threads (more than just isolated posts). This time I will not worry about what is going to happen to them. Whatever will be fine with me.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:45 PM.

Copyright 1998-2013 Literotica Online. Literotica is a registered trademark.