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Old 12-10-2008, 10:37 AM   #1
Doleika
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A married man's question

I'm asking this here because I truly don't know where else to go and I have no-one I can talk to about this (for a variety of reasons).

I'm married and have been for 20 years - we have no kids, no financial worries and would, I'd say, get on together very well - except in the bedroom.

This has been an ongoing issue for us for most of our marriage. When we were dating and engaged, sex was frequent and plentiful but it quickly (or should that be slowly) changed over the first 3 years of marriage until it ceased completely.
We have spoken about it many times, she later told me she took herself to a counsellor in that early period because of the way things were with us. However, she felt it didn't help and isn't of a mind to try that again.
She tells me she no longer masturbates (and hasn't for years) as she doesn't really "see the point" and feels its "not worth the effort". Those are direct quotes.

Our marriage is celibate and has been for several years. Most of the time, I seem to have been able to desensitise myself to the lack of love making. I have tried explaining that I see the sex more as a way of being close with her than just fucking. However, on a cyclical basis, my hormones, or something bring this subject to the surface again and I go through a period of feeling completely rejected as any sexual approach is completely rebuffed.
Last year, about this time, I initiated a discussion about this and eventually asked if she ever thought of making love or ever envisaged us actually having sex at all at any point in the future.
When her reply was no, I have to admit to being surprised that I felt so surprised. As I explained to her, I knew that we hadn't made love in years, and yet I had always clung onto the, obviously overly optimistic, hope that one day, she'd want me. I don't know why I was so shocked by that admission, but I was.

However, something must have rung a chord with her, because over the next few weeks, we did make love 4 times ( you know how bad it must be when I can recall exactly how many times). Since then, our life has returned to its usual celibate state.

I have several issues.
One, - I know she doesn't like sex so I don't feel I can push the subject.
Two, - not having had sex in 10 years rather caused a PE issue when we did actually get down to it.
Three - if i cum too quickly because of the PE (and we are talking very quickly) then she has no orgasm - my thoughts are such that I think she is thinking "why do you make such a fuss about making love if that's how quick it is"
Four - she doesn't want me to bring her to orgasm (or allow me to even try) orally or with my hands

I love her, I find her genuinely attractive, I tell her so. I kiss and cuddle her at every opportunity. I can tell the instant that she thinks the kissing has gone on long enough or she thinks maybe I'm thinking this will lead to something. Her mouth goes from soft and partly open to closed and hard.

I'm not even sure I actually have a question...............
I think I maybe just wanted to unload.

Maybe the question for any woman reading this, is - can you envisage yourself in my wife's position and if so, do you think "you" would change or should I learn to accept the fact that my wife doesn't desire me.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:51 AM   #2
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:28 AM   #3
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I remember watching TV once, one of the doctors said your diet can effect your sex-drive, I believe it was Zinc that increased sex-drive..

Looked it up
" Zinc deficiency is characterized by growth retardation, loss of appetite, and impaired immune function. In more severe cases, zinc deficiency causes hair loss, diarrhea, DELAYED SEXUAL MATURATION , impotence, hypogonadism in males, and eye and skin lesions. "

Maybe slip her some Zinc rich foods? wouldn't hurt to try, all I could think of really or maybe try to find something else that will increase her appetite for sex, nothing illegal of course.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:30 AM   #4
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A book you need to read....

Actually, both of you need to read it.

Sheet Music, by Dr. Kevin Leman

http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Music-Un.../dp/0842360247

It's written from a Christian perspective, but I'd say applicable to every marriage, regardless of religion.
He's a psychologist, and has been counseling couples for years, and compiled all his experience into the book.

He explains very well how women don't think of sex for the sake of sex, but typically want it as a result of a deeper emotional connection resulting from everything else in the marriage. (Some female litsters not withstanding... )

He also explains how a woman rejecting her husband for sex isn't seen by him subconsciously as rejecting sex, but rejecting him. In return, all sorts of ugliness can crop up.


It's a good read. There are a couple of little details I don't necessarily agree with, but the general picture is fantastic.
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Old 12-10-2008, 12:14 PM   #5
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You might want to look through the iVillage Mismatched Libidos Forum.
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:49 PM   #6
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Wheeew. This train has been off the track for a very long time. Unfortunately, your big mistake was just assuming that it was a phase and would get better in the future, which is 20years later. Ouch! Somehow you need to get back to square one. It starts with communication but it seems like there has been some what of a lack of it for many years. I don't know what the two of you are like but she could start with her family doctor or obgyn would be even better. I hope she's not too embarrassed to talk about it. Is it possible that sex with you never was that good so she decided to be faifthful and just forget about sex herself? There could be any number of reasons for this but if she isn't willing to get to the bottom of it herself or communicate with you about it then there is no hope. Is it possible to find a sex therapist instead of a regular therapist? A new therapist could be totally different than her first experience, especially if sex can be talked about. Good luck.
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:59 PM   #7
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:09 PM   #8
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Guys... The problem isn't because they arent eating enough vegetables.

Dole, was your wife sexually abused at some point in her life by chance?
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:04 PM   #9
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Ok, here is the non politically correct answer.

1) Get a girl friend that will satisfy your cravings. Maybe you might want to half jokingly ask the wife first and gauge her reaction. if she says get one, and then you ask if she is serious, dont ask again and go get one. Maybe you want to have a tape recorder handy too!

2) Tell her you have needs and its BECAUSE of her shunning for 20 years that when you finally see her hot body and get into her, you blow your load too quickly! That might impress her. If not, see number 1.

3) since killing her and hiding the body is always out of the question, you have to get a backbone and tell her "Baby, I need it and need it once a week so I can build up my staying power." If she says "No" or "Your crazy", see number 1.

4) buy her a toy. tell her you want to use it on her to get her off. If she thinks you are a perv, see number 1.

I want to die if I do not get it from SOMEONE every few days. Its not always possible to get it that often but I feel like I want to crawl out of my skin. I made hubby do me the other morning after he came home from taking the kids to school. I was home because I had a doctors appointment before work so he offered to take the kids that morning and let me sleep. He got home, I was getting dressed, my makeup on and just my bra and thong and I told him to do me! Just like that too (he loves Miss Slutty Mouth).

And my husband would get a gf if I cut him off for any length of time, as he should. $hit, after 20 years, he would have a right to divorce me!!!!!

We also swing so I may not be the best person to give you advice. That said, you have to break that bad bad cycle some way. Good luck.

and I don't need to get flamed, I said at the outset this was not going to be politically correct.

Let us know what happens.

V
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:52 PM   #10
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Some people just are asexual or have such deep issues with sex that they're just about asexual. If your wife has never enjoyed sex, I don't think there's much hope of awakening her sexual spirit at this point, especially since she probably has physical factors working against her.

One thing you can do is get yourself to a good therapist. Invite her to go with you, but if she refuses, go by yourself. It sounds like you could really use the support, and hopefully your therapist can help you find ways to communicate, compromise and make decisions about what you want to do with the rest of your life.

Have you talked to your wife about being intimate without sex? For instance, could you be physically close, kiss, cuddle, give each other massages, etc., to help fulfill some of your need for intimacy?

While finding someone else might seem like an attractive option, it sounds like you really just want that intimacy with the woman you love. Maybe you could get some of it elsewhere, but that could also leave your marriage feeling emptier/make you miss the intimacy with your wife all the more. It is something to think about, though - some people are happy for their partners to have their physical/sexual needs met elsewhere, and perhaps your wife would appreciate sex with her being taken off the table (at least by you; if she wanted it, she could still initiate it certainly). At any rate, it's a big issue that requires a lot of thought and communication, so be careful if you do decide to approach it.
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:26 PM   #11
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in all honesty, if she isn't willing to have sex with you ever--which is what you appear to be saying--that honestly makes me wonder if she's withholding sex deliberately to maintain power.

when sex was a regular part of your relationship, would you characterize it has having once been loving/affectionate/intimate, or something else?

ed
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:07 PM   #12
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The not having children part, what that a completely mutual idea or was it something one of you wanted more than another? My parents do not have sex anymore but my mother pretty much hates sex. She only wanted sex when she, or her body, wanted to become pregnant. Once she had her fifth child and was emotionally done and now that she is nearing menopause, she has no desire AT ALL to have sex. She's actually called me in total disgust saying, "Your dad tried to fuck me last night. . . It's so nasty, I have bugs crawling all over me!"
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nictavann View Post
I remember watching TV once, one of the doctors said your diet can effect your sex-drive, I believe it was Zinc that increased sex-drive..

Looked it up
" Zinc deficiency is characterized by growth retardation, loss of appetite, and impaired immune function. In more severe cases, zinc deficiency causes hair loss, diarrhea, DELAYED SEXUAL MATURATION , impotence, hypogonadism in males, and eye and skin lesions. "

Maybe slip her some Zinc rich foods? wouldn't hurt to try, all I could think of really or maybe try to find something else that will increase her appetite for sex, nothing illegal of course.
I'll have a look at that and see if I can come up with something/anything......


A few years ago, I read somewhere that the natural oils/aroma from citrus trees had been linked with heightened sexual drive.
Needless to say, I immediately rushed to the garden center and purchased a couple miniature lemon trees, orange trees and something else.
My wife came home and wondered why our living room looked like a Californian fruit orchard. That spark of curiousity was the only thing those citrus trees did for her tho'
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHappy View Post
You might want to look through the iVillage Mismatched Libidos Forum.
Jeeezus, that was an eye-opener.

Thanks for the link.
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nipple jewelry View Post
Ok, here is the non politically correct answer.

1) Get a girl friend that will satisfy your cravings. Maybe you might want to half jokingly ask the wife first and gauge her reaction. if she says get one, and then you ask if she is serious, dont ask again and go get one. Maybe you want to have a tape recorder handy too!

2) Tell her you have needs and its BECAUSE of her shunning for 20 years that when you finally see her hot body and get into her, you blow your load too quickly! That might impress her. If not, see number 1.

3) since killing her and hiding the body is always out of the question, you have to get a backbone and tell her "Baby, I need it and need it once a week so I can build up my staying power." If she says "No" or "Your crazy", see number 1.

4) buy her a toy. tell her you want to use it on her to get her off. If she thinks you are a perv, see number 1.

I want to die if I do not get it from SOMEONE every few days. Its not always possible to get it that often but I feel like I want to crawl out of my skin. I made hubby do me the other morning after he came home from taking the kids to school. I was home because I had a doctors appointment before work so he offered to take the kids that morning and let me sleep. He got home, I was getting dressed, my makeup on and just my bra and thong and I told him to do me! Just like that too (he loves Miss Slutty Mouth).

And my husband would get a gf if I cut him off for any length of time, as he should. $hit, after 20 years, he would have a right to divorce me!!!!!

We also swing so I may not be the best person to give you advice. That said, you have to break that bad bad cycle some way. Good luck.

and I don't need to get flamed, I said at the outset this was not going to be politically correct.

Let us know what happens.

V
Lmao nice nice backed and seconded.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subwannabe View Post
Wheeew. This train has been off the track for a very long time. Unfortunately, your big mistake was just assuming that it was a phase and would get better in the future, which is 20years later. Ouch! Somehow you need to get back to square one. It starts with communication but it seems like there has been some what of a lack of it for many years. I don't know what the two of you are like but she could start with her family doctor or obgyn would be even better. I hope she's not too embarrassed to talk about it. Is it possible that sex with you never was that good so she decided to be faifthful and just forget about sex herself? There could be any number of reasons for this but if she isn't willing to get to the bottom of it herself or communicate with you about it then there is no hope. Is it possible to find a sex therapist instead of a regular therapist? A new therapist could be totally different than her first experience, especially if sex can be talked about. Good luck.
If truth be told, I did think or hope it was just a phase and that she would "become normal" again at some point. It also seemed like such a small thing
(in the greater scheme) to be making such a fuss about.
At what point do you decide it's gone on long enough ?

"Is it possible that sex with me wasn't that good?" hell, yes, of course it is. I would never claim to be any kind of stud or lothario. But I'm willing to listen and learn. Tell me I'm a lousy lover by all means, but tell me what you think would make it better for you.
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebalrai View Post
Guys... The problem isn't because they arent eating enough vegetables.
That was a laugh out loud moment.


Quote:
Dole, was your wife sexually abused at some point in her life by chance?

I have wondered and I have asked that. She says no.
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:49 AM   #18
Doleika
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Nipple Jewellry,

Non PC or not, thanks for the thoughts and answer.
Are you absolutely sure that killing her and hiding the body is always out of the question? Sometimes it seems that's the most likely outcome. (Dear FBI, I'm joking)


Maybe I'm slightly odd in that I don't just want sex for the sake of sex - I can masturbate all I want - but I consider making love something special. Fucking is fine, but for me, I want more than just the physical connection.
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:57 AM   #19
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Maybe your wife has a hormonal imbalance. A friend of mine who is quite a bit older than I am had this problem. Her doctor gave her testosterone patches and she said it was like a miracle. Totally night and day.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:05 AM   #20
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Sweet Erika

I have read several threads where you offer advice and have always been impressed by your level headedness and common sense.
Thank you for your words and wisdom, you have certainly laid it out plainly and simply.

I have considered going to a therapist several times but have never followed it through, partly because I'm not sure if I can see a resolution that ends the way I want it to. If my wife won't go, and our track history on this front is not good, then no matter how I alter my expectations, we will continue to be celibate.

My quandry is that if the only way I can get her to have sex is by threatening sanctions ( ie, I'll leave otherwise), my head is filled with thoughts that basically I'm forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do. And that runs completely contrary to how I envisage making love to be. As much as I want her, I want her to want me too, at least a little bit.
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:10 AM   #21
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I don't think that making threats is going to resolve the problem. It could make it worse. Have you asked her if it's a matter of not having a sex drive, or is it that she is not attracted to you?
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:13 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwhisper View Post
in all honesty, if she isn't willing to have sex with you ever--which is what you appear to be saying--that honestly makes me wonder if she's withholding sex deliberately to maintain power.

when sex was a regular part of your relationship, would you characterize it has having once been loving/affectionate/intimate, or something else?

ed
I'm not sure I catch your drift - in what way would she be maintaining power?
It may be that I'm just not seeing the connection.

Thinking back (so long ago), after the first few months, when I'd say it was passionate and intimate, it did seem to become much more something to be "tolerated".
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:22 AM   #23
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See if she'll visit a Gynocologist, preferably a woman.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by KerrBear85 View Post
The not having children part, what that a completely mutual idea or was it something one of you wanted more than another? My parents do not have sex anymore but my mother pretty much hates sex. She only wanted sex when she, or her body, wanted to become pregnant. Once she had her fifth child and was emotionally done and now that she is nearing menopause, she has no desire AT ALL to have sex. She's actually called me in total disgust saying, "Your dad tried to fuck me last night. . . It's so nasty, I have bugs crawling all over me!"
It was a joint decision - we worked together in a large Civil Service Department, and she was/and is very career orientated, whilst I work because that pays the bills.

At one point, many years ago, we did agree to try to have a baby, but without success. To be honest, neither of us was that disappointed. We have neices and nephews and God-children if we want to babysit, buy presents or remember why we didn't actually want any of our own.

My wife does tell me that she's not that unusual and that lots of women don't want to have sex. That's not a lot of comfort really.
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:35 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ZoeBird View Post
I don't think that making threats is going to resolve the problem. It could make it worse. Have you asked her if it's a matter of not having a sex drive, or is it that she is not attracted to you?
No, I agree, making threats is never going to work - even if she was to give in, I wouldn't be comfortable with that knowledge - and it isn't any kind of solution.

I have asked her whether it is because of me she doesn't want sex - and she says she just doesn't want to, at all.
Several years ago, I was posted away from home by work for 3 months. My last night at home, we made a special effort, relaxed dinner, wine, low music and lights etc, but on our way to bed, she was in tears. She says, "I know what you want and I just can't."

Whatever her reason, I believe it is because of me. Constant rejection definitely will do some damage to your self confidence.
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And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be.
Goodbye my lover, goodbye my friend. You have been the one, you have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine, in mine when I'm asleep, and I will bare my soul in time, when I'm kneeling at your feet, Goodbye my lover.
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