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Old 09-03-2014, 04:43 PM   #1
radioz66
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How do you Protect your stories?

I plan to write a book some day on my Drive-In Memories some day.
I only have one simple question to ask all of you.
It's Just a Plain and simple question.

How do you Protect your stories from being copied.
is it easy to get a copyright or is it?
Thanks for any and all help

Sincerely Uncle Willi
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:19 PM   #2
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You can get a copyright for a digital work for $35 and if its a series you only need one copyright to cover them all.

However, the best way to protect your works?

Never put them on a site like this. They get lifted and even with a copyright you have to be prepared to go to court. Lot of time lot of money.

If any of these stories are here now, pull them down. Then start searching through google for anywhere they have been pirated to and try to get them taken down.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:09 PM   #3
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Oh O thanks I have a series I will be working but that will be in book form later on in life.
I do Very Much appreciate the help
sincerely Uncle Willie
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #4
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You don't need a formal copyright. Your work is copyrighted automatically by the mere fact that you created it. It has been this way since 1989 and you can check this fact on the USPTO website.

Nevertheless, if you post it on the Internet, consider it copied. It will be. Anything I post online I consider a giveaway. You should do the same.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
You don't need a formal copyright. Your work is copyrighted automatically by the mere fact that you created it. It has been this way since 1989 and you can check this fact on the USPTO website.

Nevertheless, if you post it on the Internet, consider it copied. It will be. Anything I post online I consider a giveaway. You should do the same.
I'm sure our resident expert on copyright law will be along any minute to tell you, that in order to pursue a copyright violation in court or have the FBI investigate the violation you will need a formal copyright.

Of course for a simple DMCA notification you probably won't. But, I'm sure our resident expert on Copyright Law will be along to dispute that too.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
You can get a copyright for a digital work for $35 and if its a series you only need one copyright to cover them all.

However, the best way to protect your works?

Never put them on a site like this. They get lifted and even with a copyright you have to be prepared to go to court. Lot of time lot of money.

If any of these stories are here now, pull them down. Then start searching through google for anywhere they have been pirated to and try to get them taken down.
Thank You then this is what I will do pay the sum of$35 and get that particular one
sincerely Uncle Willie/ Radioz66
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:44 AM   #7
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I found it thanks I will Inquire on this I am working an a book that I may tun into an e book.
I will want to protect it
have a awesome day
sincerely Uncle Willie
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeb_Carter View Post
I'm sure our resident expert on copyright law will be along any minute to tell you, that in order to pursue a copyright violation in court or have the FBI investigate the violation you will need a formal copyright.

Of course for a simple DMCA notification you probably won't. But, I'm sure our resident expert on Copyright Law will be along to dispute that too.
That's okay. I am not an attorney and I am not giving legal advice. Nevertheless, from what I have seen, a formal copyright from the USPTO only provides a documented and reliable first date of creation. That can be done by numerous other and free methods (like posting here on Literotica). The USPTO will not come testify on your behalf. Not to mention, the law clearly states that any work created by you is copyrighted - YOU. Wouldn't it be illegal for the courts to impose requirements that are in direct conflict with the law?

Amongst professional writers, stamping "Copyright 2014 John Doe" at the bottom of your work is considered unprofessional unless that work is for sale. The reason being, it's overkill and looks self-important. Everyone already knows it is copyrighted.

I encourage the OP to read the information section on copyrights at the USPTO website. It is much more reliable information than a forum on the Internet.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:38 PM   #9
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guess I just don't worry about what I write/post here being g copied, I do it for my own satisfaction.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
That's okay. I am not an attorney and I am not giving legal advice. Nevertheless, from what I have seen, a formal copyright from the USPTO only provides a documented and reliable first date of creation. That can be done by numerous other and free methods (like posting here on Literotica).
The US Patent and Trademark Office doesn't register copyrights. That would be the US Copyright Office, which is a separate agency - patents, trademarks, and copyrights are all very different things. Among other things the Copyright Office website has this circular which explains the basics.

I wouldn't like to stand on a Literotica posting date in court. I've seen one site that pirates Literotica stories and posts them with falsified dates to make it appear that its own versions predate the Lit versions. Good luck convincing a court that this porn site is a reliable source and that one isn't.

Quote:
The USPTO will not come testify on your behalf. Not to mention, the law clearly states that any work created by you is copyrighted - YOU. Wouldn't it be illegal for the courts to impose requirements that are in direct conflict with the law?
The USPTO wouldn't have anything to do with the case, but registration with the US Copyright Office would be admissible and indeed has legal status as prima facie evidence of ownership and creation date - which is extremely important if the infringing party is claiming they published first.

Yep, you do own US copyright simply by creating the work (possible exceptions for authors and works outside Berne treaty countries) but without registration your rights in the USA are nerfed to the point of being almost meaningless. For works of US origin you can't sue for infringement unless you've registered. If you don't register until after the infringement has occurred, then you're limited in what damages and costs you can claim, and it's probably not going to be worth your while going to court. See page 7 of the circular for details.

Quote:
Amongst professional writers, stamping "Copyright 2014 John Doe" at the bottom of your work is considered unprofessional unless that work is for sale. The reason being, it's overkill and looks self-important. Everyone already knows it is copyrighted.
Copyright notices aren't as important as they used to be, but they still provide some legal benefit. In the case of violation they prevent the defendant from claiming innocent infringement to reduce damages.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/401
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/504

"If a notice of copyright in the form and position specified by this section appears on the published copy or copies to which a defendant in a copyright infringement suit had access, then no weight shall be given to such a defendant’s interposition of a defense based on innocent infringement in mitigation of actual or statutory damages, except as provided in the last sentence of section 504 (c)(2).

...

In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000. In a case where the infringer sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that such infringer was not aware and had no reason to believe that his or her acts constituted an infringement of copyright, the court in its discretion may reduce the award of statutory damages to a sum of not less than $200. "
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:06 PM   #11
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So, I'm dying to see you argue with this Bram, Zeb.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:41 PM   #12
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The US Patent and Trademark Office doesn't register copyrights. That would be the US Copyright Office, which is a separate agency - patents, trademarks, and copyrights are all very different things. Among other things the Copyright Office website has this circular which explains the basics.

I wouldn't like to stand on a Literotica posting date in court. I've seen one site that pirates Literotica stories and posts them with falsified dates to make it appear that its own versions predate the Lit versions. Good luck convincing a court that this porn site is a reliable source and that one isn't.



The USPTO wouldn't have anything to do with the case, but registration with the US Copyright Office would be admissible and indeed has legal status as prima facie evidence of ownership and creation date - which is extremely important if the infringing party is claiming they published first.

Yep, you do own US copyright simply by creating the work (possible exceptions for authors and works outside Berne treaty countries) but without registration your rights in the USA are nerfed to the point of being almost meaningless. For works of US origin you can't sue for infringement unless you've registered. If you don't register until after the infringement has occurred, then you're limited in what damages and costs you can claim, and it's probably not going to be worth your while going to court. See page 7 of the circular for details.



Copyright notices aren't as important as they used to be, but they still provide some legal benefit. In the case of violation they prevent the defendant from claiming innocent infringement to reduce damages.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/401
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/504

"If a notice of copyright in the form and position specified by this section appears on the published copy or copies to which a defendant in a copyright infringement suit had access, then no weight shall be given to such a defendant’s interposition of a defense based on innocent infringement in mitigation of actual or statutory damages, except as provided in the last sentence of section 504 (c)(2).

...

In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000. In a case where the infringer sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that such infringer was not aware and had no reason to believe that his or her acts constituted an infringement of copyright, the court in its discretion may reduce the award of statutory damages to a sum of not less than $200. "
No argument with all that, but it's kind of splitting hairs, except for one statement. (And I don't know why I was writing USPTO. Sometimes my brain gets crossed.)

To state that "you can't sue for infringement unless you've registered" is just plain wrong. You own the copyright. You can sue. It's been successfully done numerous times.

The rest of your comments are all about improving your odds, which I don't have any argument with, I was just pointing out to the OP what I pointed out above. Registering is not necessary.

But I'm not an attorney and I am not giving legal advice.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:04 PM   #13
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I have thought about writing and posting my own erotica on Lit, but at the same time I do worry about someone stealing my work. Maybe I'll save my stories for publishing instead.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
To state that "you can't sue for infringement unless you've registered" is just plain wrong. You own the copyright. You can sue. It's been successfully done numerous times.
Could you please rectify that statement with this found in the FAQs of the U.S. Government's Copyright Office Web site, www.copyright.gov. Also, please cite the successful suits taken to court without a formal copyright.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:43 PM   #15
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Could you please rectify that statement with this found in the FAQs of the U.S. Government's Copyright Office Web site, www.copyright.gov. Also, please cite the successful suits taken to court without a formal copyright.
I don't know the particulars of what is written on the Copyright Office Web site, nor to I keep a record of successful lawsuits concerning copyright. All I know is that one can file and successfully prosecute a lawsuit for copyright infringement without having registered their work.

Filing a copyright with the Copyright Office is not an end-all. It is possible to obtain a copyright on work that is stolen. If I steal your work and have it registered with the Copyright Office as my work, then you are telling me you have no recourse? Imagine what that world would look like.

You do have recourse. The Copyright office only provides authentication of date of creation as best the office can determine and by the word of the submitter. However, a valid and authoritative date of creation can be had by other sources. <--- That was my only point with the OP.

Moreover, what is a copyright if it is not protection? To state that one has a copyright without registration, but they must have registration to defend that right is completely contradictory. If you must register to protect it then you have no copyright without registration. And yet we all agree, and the Copyright Office agrees, that registration is not necessary to hold a copyright.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:05 AM   #16
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I don't know the particulars of what is written on the Copyright Office Web site, nor to I keep a record of successful lawsuits concerning copyright. All I know is that one can file and successfully prosecute a lawsuit for copyright infringement without having registered their work.
The point is that you don't know what you think you know. I quoted what spells it out very clearly to you and everyone else. You're not getting a court date in the United States unless you produce a formal copyright registration. This is not a mistake; the U.S. Government doesn't want its courts bogged down in he said/she said cases. End of story.

And, yes, whoever files first owns it. Those folks ripping the stories off of a free-use site can file and own it, yes (but they probably won't; for the same reason you're not going to file for registration for your work--because it's not cost effective and because you're going to have to own up in public to owning it even if you do go to court). The courts are not going to get trapped into he said/she said situations. It's a purposeful decision.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:33 AM   #17
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So, I'm dying to see you argue with this Bram, Zeb.
Why would I be arguing with Bram?
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:55 AM   #18
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Why would I be arguing with Bram?
Oh, you're right. Your speed is arguing at a much lower IQ level--with Rip.

Bet it burned you that Bram answered the question--with the same reality I try to give to the issue and that apparently you want to make fun of.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
The point is that you don't know what you think you know. I quoted what spells it out very clearly to you and everyone else. You're not getting a court date in the United States unless you produce a formal copyright registration. This is not a mistake; the U.S. Government doesn't want its courts bogged down in he said/she said cases. End of story.

And, yes, whoever files first owns it. Those folks ripping the stories off of a free-use site can file and own it, yes (but they probably won't; for the same reason you're not going to file for registration for your work--because it's not cost effective and because you're going to have to own up in public to owning it even if you do go to court). The courts are not going to get trapped into he said/she said situations. It's a purposeful decision.
I was not making a personal attack, sr71. You sound upset. I am only debating these points from what I have seen in my experience.

Nevertheless, you did not comment on my points about the essence of copyright. The stories you have submitted to Lit that you have not registered with the Copyright Office, do you hold copyright to those stories or do you not?
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:01 AM   #20
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I was not making a personal attack, sr71. You sound upset. I am only debating these points from what I have seen in my experience.

Nevertheless, you did not comment on my points about the essence of copyright. The stories you have submitted to Lit that you have not registered with the Copyright Office, do you hold copyright to those stories or do you not?
The essence of copyright on stories at Literotica is that it doesn't functionally exist because folks aren't going to do it--because it's cost prohibitive and unless they suck into perveyors of misinformation like you they aren't going to waste their time trying to activate a system that's not going to do them any good even if they filed for copyright. They valued their stories at zero when they posted them to a free-use Web site. Even if it went to court (at high expense right there), all it would get from a judge is a snort and a mutter of "dumb sucker" under his/her breath.

I'm not upset. I'm disgusted that those who don't know what they are talking about on this issue are leading astray others wanting to know what's what.

And, of course, it's none of your business what I have a copyright on and what I don't. It's sort of moot on the erotica I have posted at Lit., though, because everything I have on Lit. exists already in e-books put out by publishers. Wouldn't need a copyright on these. It's fairly obvious who has them in the marketplace first. Someone else puts them up for money, the publisher just goes to their publisher and they are history. Publishers don't like being drug into this by a thief. Copyright doesn't need to come into this at all.

I recommend that others do it this way too and just not hyperventilate over theft.
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:35 AM   #21
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Oh, you're right. Your speed is arguing at a much lower IQ level--with Rip.

Bet it burned you that Bram answered the question--with the same reality I try to give to the issue and that apparently you want to make fun of.
Well it was refreshing to actually have someone inform us on the realities of Copyright Law instead of talking down to us about it.

I have never objected about your information, just your delivery of that information.

You're a blowhard and don't know how to be nice about expounding and pontificating on how much of an expert you are about stuff. Sometimes it's about stuff nobody cares about, because your comprehension of what you read leaves you oblivious about the subject being discussed.

Now make sure you go back and edit all the post where you were caught with you proverbial pants down.
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:25 AM   #22
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To state that "you can't sue for infringement unless you've registered" is just plain wrong. You own the copyright. You can sue. It's been successfully done numerous times.
Such as?

The US Copyright Office's circular (p. 7) explicitly says that works of US origin need to be registered before you can file suit for infringement.

17 U.S. Code §411: "Except for an action brought for a violation of the rights of the author under section 106A (a), and subject to the provisions of subsection (b), [1] no civil action for infringement of the copyright in any United States work shall be instituted until preregistration or registration of the copyright claim has been made in accordance with this title." § 106A(a) relates specifically to visual art, so it's not relevant here.

Here's an intellectual property lawyer saying "Copyright registration is a precondition for bringing an infringement lawsuit. " Here's another lawyer saying the same thing.

I really don't understand why you keep asserting the contrary. Why do you believe registration isn't necessary to file suit?

Quote:
The rest of your comments are all about improving your odds, which I don't have any argument with, I was just pointing out to the OP what I pointed out above.
Er, no - the bit about damages and costs isn't about improving your odds, it's about the payout if you win. If you delay registration until after the infringement takes place (and 3+ months after publication) you can't claim legal fees or statutory damages, meaning that you would have to prove financial loss - good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
I don't know the particulars of what is written on the Copyright Office Web site, nor to I keep a record of successful lawsuits concerning copyright. All I know is that one can file and successfully prosecute a lawsuit for copyright infringement without having registered their work.

Filing a copyright with the Copyright Office is not an end-all. It is possible to obtain a copyright on work that is stolen. If I steal your work and have it registered with the Copyright Office as my work, then you are telling me you have no recourse? Imagine what that world would look like.
OK, let's suppose SR publishes a story without registering copyright; six months later you rip it off, publish it, and file a registration.

Under the law, your registration is accepted as prima facie evidence that you own the work and published it when you say you did. It's still rebuttable evidence, meaning that SR might be able to torpedo it if he could provide some proof that he was in fact the author and that your claim was bogus - but it might be a hard thing to prove. If it comes down to his unsupported word vs your unsupported word plus a registration, that registration is going to win.

Even if he successfully proves that he published six months before your registration, he can't sue you for infringement until he himself registers - and even then, because he's registering after the infringement and more than 3 months after publication, it's not going to be worth his while to sue unless you continue to infringe after that date.

Quote:
You do have recourse. The Copyright office only provides authentication of date of creation as best the office can determine and by the word of the submitter. However, a valid and authoritative date of creation can be had by other sources. <--- That was my only point with the OP.

Moreover, what is a copyright if it is not protection? To state that one has a copyright without registration, but they must have registration to defend that right is completely contradictory.
Yep, copyright without registration is indeed a pretty flimsy "right", and it may well seem nonsensical to call it "copyright" given how weakly it's protected. But that's the law, as attested by the four sources I've cited above.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:08 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by SquidProQuo View Post
I have thought about writing and posting my own erotica on Lit, but at the same time I do worry about someone stealing my work. Maybe I'll save my stories for publishing instead.
I totally agree people there are persons out there whom don't care about stealing stories.
They rewrite parts then claim it's their own writing., Then there are the persons you have people who care and respect others work.

Ill Get this out in the open.
I did a reply to a forum called X-Hamster which I am a member have been for many years.
My reply was I totally agree with you (Sixty) , there have many stories I have read that have been changed a little or a lot. I am on your side and I hope people will come to realize that Stealing stories is wrong and should never happen.


Not sure weather I was bashed or not for commenting on this years ago .
I wish I knew, I commented that I have read several awesome stories but each time i read
the story was changed around a little bit and had a different writers name on that story,
To me this is stealing from "The Original Author" and that's wrong absolutely wrong and who ever did this to this person has a lot of Balls . I myself would never ever do this.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:30 AM   #24
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Such as?

The US Copyright Office's circular (p. 7) explicitly says that works of US origin need to be registered before you can file suit for infringement.

17 U.S. Code §411: "Except for an action brought for a violation of the rights of the author under section 106A (a), and subject to the provisions of subsection (b), [1] no civil action for infringement of the copyright in any United States work shall be instituted until preregistration or registration of the copyright claim has been made in accordance with this title." § 106A(a) relates specifically to visual art, so it's not relevant here.

Here's an intellectual property lawyer saying "Copyright registration is a precondition for bringing an infringement lawsuit. " Here's another lawyer saying the same thing.

I really don't understand why you keep asserting the contrary. Why do you believe registration isn't necessary to file suit?



Er, no - the bit about damages and costs isn't about improving your odds, it's about the payout if you win. If you delay registration until after the infringement takes place (and 3+ months after publication) you can't claim legal fees or statutory damages, meaning that you would have to prove financial loss - good luck with that.



OK, let's suppose SR publishes a story without registering copyright; six months later you rip it off, publish it, and file a registration.

Under the law, your registration is accepted as prima facie evidence that you own the work and published it when you say you did. It's still rebuttable evidence, meaning that SR might be able to torpedo it if he could provide some proof that he was in fact the author and that your claim was bogus - but it might be a hard thing to prove. If it comes down to his unsupported word vs your unsupported word plus a registration, that registration is going to win.

Even if he successfully proves that he published six months before your registration, he can't sue you for infringement until he himself registers - and even then, because he's registering after the infringement and more than 3 months after publication, it's not going to be worth his while to sue unless you continue to infringe after that date.



Yep, copyright without registration is indeed a pretty flimsy "right", and it may well seem nonsensical to call it "copyright" given how weakly it's protected. But that's the law, as attested by the four sources I've cited above.
I think it is simple some times authors and or writers find things on the net like them they have a lot of money and then steal it calling it their own.
When you try to get $$ for it they tell you piss off.
My Humble opinion.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:39 PM   #25
littlecordelera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
The essence of copyright on stories at Literotica is that it doesn't functionally exist because folks aren't going to do it--because it's cost prohibitive and unless they suck into perveyors of misinformation like you they aren't going to waste their time trying to activate a system that's not going to do them any good even if they filed for copyright. They valued their stories at zero when they posted them to a free-use Web site. Even if it went to court (at high expense right there), all it would get from a judge is a snort and a mutter of "dumb sucker" under his/her breath.

I'm not upset. I'm disgusted that those who don't know what they are talking about on this issue are leading astray others wanting to know what's what.

And, of course, it's none of your business what I have a copyright on and what I don't. It's sort of moot on the erotica I have posted at Lit., though, because everything I have on Lit. exists already in e-books put out by publishers. Wouldn't need a copyright on these. It's fairly obvious who has them in the marketplace first. Someone else puts them up for money, the publisher just goes to their publisher and they are history. Publishers don't like being drug into this by a thief. Copyright doesn't need to come into this at all.

I recommend that others do it this way too and just not hyperventilate over theft.
You avoided answering my question because it would have proved my point.

You are right about people coming out here and talking when they don't know what they're talking about. Are you an attorney with experience in copyright law?
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