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Masters are from Mars, submissive/slaves are from Venus

Snoozebutton2

Snoozebutton2

Despoiler of Women
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Posts
5,901
Ever had that blank stare from your Pyl/pyl? Or is it they can't seem to verbalize a particular need or desire. Have they said you are not getting it and you truly don't? Or were you smiling thinking you solved it only to hear you're not listening. I myself have heard all these and more. And you know what, I'm glad as shows she trusts and loves me enough to want me to understand. People talk of communication a lot here but sometimes it's not easy. You may want to just scream. Thats normal and don't be afraid to tell your Pyl/pyl they don't get it. Sure may hurt their pride a little now. But better they truly connect with what makes you tick instead of pretending or burying your true needs. Do you not have it all figured out? Is there a disconnect in the way you both see certain things? I think having a place where we can share and discuss is a good idea. Can we help each other communicate better?
 
Well, on thing you can do is take turns.

1st person talks without interruption.

2nd person says, "what I think you just said is", and then repeat in your own words what the 1st person said.

Correct misunderstandings till both are satisfied.

Then its the 2nd persons turn to talk.
 
YourCaptor said:
Well, on thing you can do is take turns.

1st person talks without interruption.

2nd person says, "what I think you just said is", and then repeat in your own words what the 1st person said.

Correct misunderstandings till both are satisfied.

Then its the 2nd persons turn to talk.
Click to expand...

I've tried that. It doesn't work with my husband.

For instance:

Him: We have failed as parents.

Me: We have failed as parents.

Him: No, that's not what I said.

Me: You didn't just say we are failures as parents?

Him: No, I just said, we've failed, that's all.

Me: Okay, so, we've failed. That's pretty bleak and negative sounding to me. It makes me sad that you think that.

Him: No! You don't understand it's actually good! It means we have failed. We acknowledge that and start all over again with a new tact. I'm being positive.

Me: ???

Endlessly round and round we go.

:eek:
 
Masters are from Mars, submissive/slaves are from Venus, and Mistresses are from the crab nebula.

You're looking for the holy grail of relationships. How does one have perfect communication in which everything that is said is untainted by misunderstanding or prejudices.... if you find it, share a bit of that with me. The best I can recommend is exhaustive talks about the subject in question until you have both accumulated enough raw opinions to gather a semblance of an idea on what you think they're thinking. Moon jokes that she doesn't have to talk because I'll normally say the thought on her min with such regularity that 50% of potential conversations just end before they can begin. Even so, I found it easier to anticipate her words than her meaning. One thing that helps is whenever moon talks about anything, I make her explain in detail to me what she means and why.
 
I'm glad to see some open discusion, I know I can take all the advice. I am just one that wants to see things solved and that can't happen quickly sometimes. I also realize just because I think everything is going great doesn't make it so. Sometimes my pride does get in the way. And feel hurt that can't fix everything for everyone. I just hope that by sharing and talking we all find some new insights and pathways to improve and not feel we are only ones.
 
This sounds so familiar. :) At least in my case the men in my life always feel like that have to solve or fix whatever is bothering me. Well, things are not always fixable. I don't mind just sucking it up and dealing with situations that are not perfect (work issues, normal life issues out of my control). It's real life.

But....I need to be allowed to be in a crappy mood if I am getting overwhelmed by things no one can change. It won't last forever, and there is nothing the men (PYL and/or husband) can do to fix it.

I find that they get frustrated because 1)they can't fix it 2) I don't want them to fix it 3) I just need to vent a bit 4)I'm not missallpositiveandhappyandupbeatandhorny.

I just want them to say I'm sorry life sucks for you right now, I'm here if you need me, let me know if I can do something for you.....and btw, I'm horny and it's still your job to take care of me (that last line for my PYL, hubby would have to word it a little differently :) )

The result would be I would smile and then be able to do something that would distract me from life's issues for a little bit and feel loved.
 
I agree with ecstaticsub, and would add that even if something is "fixed" once, that doesn't mean it stays fixed. I know it's frustrating, but some issues just come up back and what worked to smooth things over last time may not apply anymore. It might seem like we're hashing over the same thing again and again, but we're going to have to talk about it everytime it comes up.

Something else that comes up quite a bit in my relationship is crying during a conversation. Crying is okay. You don't necessarily need to try make it stop. I know it can freak some men out to see their loved one crying, but it's really okay. It's an emotional release, not necessarily a sign of complete breakdown.
 
Try gender ambiguity.

Our arguments:

me (whine)

him (solve)

me: no no no, I want empathy not solutions.

him (whine)

me (solve)

him: no no no, I want empathy, not solutions.
 
Yep, I've seen that in action more than a few times too.

:rose:

Netzach said:
Try gender ambiguity.

Our arguments:

me (whine)

him (solve)

me: no no no, I want empathy not solutions.

him (whine)

me (solve)

him: no no no, I want empathy, not solutions.
Click to expand...
 
ecstaticsub said:
This sounds so familiar. :) At least in my case the men in my life always feel like that have to solve or fix whatever is bothering me. Well, things are not always fixable. I don't mind just sucking it up and dealing with situations that are not perfect (work issues, normal life issues out of my control). It's real life.

But....I need to be allowed to be in a crappy mood if I am getting overwhelmed by things no one can change. It won't last forever, and there is nothing the men (PYL and/or husband) can do to fix it.

I find that they get frustrated because 1)they can't fix it 2) I don't want them to fix it 3) I just need to vent a bit 4)I'm not missallpositiveandhappyandupbeatandhorny.

I just want them to say I'm sorry life sucks for you right now, I'm here if you need me, let me know if I can do something for you.....and btw, I'm horny and it's still your job to take care of me (that last line for my PYL, hubby would have to word it a little differently :) )

The result would be I would smile and then be able to do something that would distract me from life's issues for a little bit and feel loved.
Click to expand...
This is a pretty common complaint. Are there really men who don't know this yet? :confused:

It works in reverse, too. Sometimes I get frustrated with my female friends because they never seem to want to offer advice. It's just constant emotion sharing. I get that some women think it's their job to get men to "open up", but after we've done so, maybe even cried or whatever, then it's time to fix things. Advice welcome, please. ;)
 
And how about those people who prefer to whine but never actually want to change or fix anything?

:rose:
 
When we talk about crying lemme say this to all the PYL's outside..

The best thing you can do for us when we cry is to let us cry. I know it's hard to see someone you love cry, but when it comes to tears theres really no other way how to get it outta us. Our tears might have million and one reason, it doesn't neceseray mean you have done something or said something wrong. When we cry guess we just need too! Not much you can do about it, we will cry no matter what. Seriously. Just be there for us and LISTEN.

IF you listen, and I mean REALLY listen lol, we might even tell you WHY we cry! ;)

This kind of tears are more like a purification, at least for me. Some days I just cry no matter what. The only thing you can do about it is to make a choice whether you will be a part of it or no. Whether you will be there for me when I am weak and allow me to find my strengt in you, or not. But know it must be me who must find the strengt in you, not like you can make it happen just cuz you cannot take to see me cry. Thats why I say theres not much you can do about it when we cry. Let us be "us". With all are moods and emotions. Don't freak out if we get emotional and teary. It's alright really. Let us get weak so we could get strong, with you. Throught YOU. You just be the strong harbor we need and everything will be alright.

The only thing we need from you is to catch us when we feel like we are falling. Just be there. And listen. Even if all you hear is our crying. Give us the freedom to deal with it "our" way, which will be moslikely the tears. If you let us cry, at some point we will stop and we will feel much better, really!! We WILL find our strengt in you, but you gotta let us!! :)

Don't try to solve something when you don't have a clue why we cry. It might have hundert of reasons. We might cry cause of real life issues, we might cry cause we just woke up feeling down, we might cry just cause we wish the *hug* you said was a real one and cause we simply miss you so bad it hurts.

Theres this quote saying; "Tears are words the heart cannot express." It's true!! Perhaps our eyes need to be washed by our tears once in a while, so that we can see Life with a clearer view again.

It seems to me that most of us submissives are very emotional persons. We love a lot, feel a lot and need you A LOT! Deal with it!!!!!! :rose:



Sometimes when me and A. talk on mic or on MSN, I get all emotional. I am not doing it for a reason, I know he hate to see me cry. Can't really say why is that that I need to cry when we talk. Presence of your Dom can be overhelming, VERY!! So I cry yes. Pretty often. Sometimes he knows, sometimes he doesn't. Why I am telling you all this is cuz I was thinking WHY is that? And the only thing I figured out is I cry beacuse I NEED HIM SO!! Maybe your pyl feels the same. :eek:
 
Last edited:
I have been thinking about in what way communication can be different in a D/s relationship. Since I'm new to this I have found it hard sometimes to know when to express my needs and thoughts and when to wait for my PYL's cue or question. Wanting him to lead, but at the same time having all these emotions and issues popping up in me.

I've often thought that I should wait and be patient and all that. The thing is I am rather emotional, impatient and quite transparent so I rarely succeed. :rolleyes:

And I am definitely a cryer. For all sorts of reasons. Overwhelming, anger, loneliness, confusion, shame, guilt, relief.... you name it.

Sometimes I feel that my emotional expression and outlet has too much impact on the relationship. But holding back would also mean a less open and honest communication and neither of us want that. (Couldn't do it either.)

When does expressing needs and emotions turn into a form of control? And how to find a good balance there?
 
Arkhilokhus said:
This is a pretty common complaint. Are there really men who don't know this yet? :confused:
Click to expand...

I think most men know, but it is still in their nature to want to solve our problems. My PYL tends to be extremely protective of me so if I vent about my boss or somone who is angering me he wants to find a way to stop me from hurting. At times he has helped, at other times I just needed to vent and fix it myself.

Arkhilokhus said:
It works in reverse, too. Sometimes I get frustrated with my female friends because they never seem to want to offer advice. It's just constant emotion sharing. I get that some women think it's their job to get men to "open up", but after we've done so, maybe even cried or whatever, then it's time to fix things. Advice welcome, please. ;)
Click to expand...

Have you tried coming out and asking them to give you advice? Tell them that you would really appreciate their point of view. Sometimes I don't offer it because I'm not sure if it is really wanted.
 
Great thread!

This cracked me up:
HarlotMinx said:
Masters are from Mars, submissive/slaves are from Venus, and Mistresses are from the crab nebula.
.
Click to expand...

Netzach said:
Try gender ambiguity.

Our arguments:

me (whine)

him (solve)

me: no no no, I want empathy not solutions.

him (whine)

me (solve)

him: no no no, I want empathy, not solutions.
Click to expand...

Oh indeed.

It's a massive help to be able to differentiate between the two activities. I've gotten better, as have my mates, at being able to say, "okay, right now I'm just venting. Later on we can have the part where you make suggestions about solving the problem."

I do think sometimes there's a gender difference, or at least there tends to be. Women often do too much venting and not enough solution-oriented activity, and men can end up solving stuff instead of just offering the occasional ear for a rant. Both are valuable.

And of course, it's just hard to watch someone you love being all agonized and not immediately want to start solving the problem. Sometimes it's just a matter of patience - first you let someone vent for a while, then when they've gotten that part dealt with, you can more easily move to the solutions.
 
BiaTcHiNFiRe said:
When we talk about crying lemme say this to all the PYL's outside..

The best thing you can do for us when we cry is to let us cry. I know it's hard to see someone you love cry, but when it comes to tears theres really no other way how to get it outta us. Our tears might have million and one reason, it doesn't neceseray mean you have done something or said something wrong. When we cry guess we just need too! Not much you can do about it, we will cry no matter what. Seriously. Just be there for us and LISTEN.

IF you listen, and I mean REALLY listen lol, we might even tell you WHY we cry! ;)

This kind of tears are more like a purification, at least for me. Some days I just cry no matter what. The only thing you can do about it is to make a choice whether you will be a part of it or no. Whether you will be there for me when I am weak and allow me to find my strengt in you, or not. But know it must be me who must find the strengt in you, not like you can make it happen just cuz you cannot take to see me cry. Thats why I say theres not much you can do about it when we cry. Let us be "us". With all are moods and emotions. Don't freak out if we get emotional and teary. It's alright really. Let us get weak so we could get strong, with you. Throught YOU. You just be the strong harbor we need and everything will be alright.

The only thing we need from you is to catch us when we feel like we are falling. Just be there. And listen. Even if all you hear is our crying. Give us the freedom to deal with it "our" way, which will be moslikely the tears. If you let us cry, at some point we will stop and we will feel much better, really!! We WILL find our strengt in you, but you gotta let us!! :)

Don't try to solve something when you don't have a clue why we cry. It might have hundert of reasons. We might cry cause of real life issues, we might cry cause we just woke up feeling down, we might cry just cause we wish the *hug* you said was a real one and cause we simply miss you so bad it hurts.

Theres this quote saying; "Tears are words the heart cannot express." It's true!! Perhaps our eyes need to be washed by our tears once in a while, so that we can see Life with a clearer view again.

It seems to me that most of us submissives are very emotional persons. We love a lot, feel a lot and need you A LOT! Deal with it!!!!!! :rose:



Sometimes when me and A. talk on mic or on MSN, I get all emotional. I am not doing it for a reason, I know he hate to see me cry. Can't really say why is that that I need to cry when we talk. Presence of your Dom can be overhelming, VERY!! So I cry yes. Pretty often. Sometimes he knows, sometimes he doesn't. Why I am telling you all this is cuz I was thinking WHY is that? And the only thing I figured out is I cry beacuse I NEED HIM SO!! Maybe your pyl feels the same. :eek:
Click to expand...

beautifully stated...my ex would tell me to stop being so emotional so i had to hide and cry or hold it in...it always turned to anger, probably why he is the ex.

With my Master, he allows me to cry, He lets me get it out while He whispers softly to me...and yes, a lot of the time it is that i wish so desperately that i could once again feel that *hug* and not just read it.

As the months get closer to the move, i seem to be getting more weepy, i guess it is both the excitement of my new life to come and the mourning of this old one (i will miss my son terribly, even though he is 18)...then again some days i just need to get it out so that i can wipe my eyes and move forward.
 
ecstaticsub said:
I think most men know, but it is still in their nature to want to solve our problems. My PYL tends to be extremely protective of me so if I vent about my boss or somone who is angering me he wants to find a way to stop me from hurting. At times he has helped, at other times I just needed to vent and fix it myself.
Click to expand...

This is my problem. I might *know* that she just wants to vent, but I *need* to fix. It's frikken tough to sit there and listen to my girl cry. As a guy, you are wired with the compelling urge to go out and pound something to keep your gal from getting hurt. Or maybe that's just me.

And I would argue that most guys don't actually know this. At least not the guys I know.
 
Homburg said:
This is my problem. I might *know* that she just wants to vent, but I *need* to fix. It's frikken tough to sit there and listen to my girl cry. As a guy, you are wired with the compelling urge to go out and pound something to keep your gal from getting hurt. Or maybe that's just me.

And I would argue that most guys don't actually know this. At least not the guys I know.
Click to expand...
I found that my ability to do this increased as I learned how to sit and experience unpleasant emotions. My tendency has always been to attack whatever's hurting me as a way of dealing with sadness or whatever. But learning to just feel that, to show that kind of courage and perseverence, has really helped me to let women do the same.

I read about a survey once that asked married women, regardless of how you felt about his handling of the emotional situation, what do you think of your husband's suggestions? And almost 70% said they were helpful. This dovetails with my experience; once a woman feels listened to and that her emotions are validated, she is often happy to consider suggestions to "fix" the situation. My rule is simply emotions before solutions - which is a pretty good rule for men, too. ;)
 
I'm actually a fixer. And I like hearing ideas from other fixers.

I also don't like to talk incessantly when I first get home or cuddle.

Don't worry, I'm annoying in plenty of other ways. :)
 
ecstaticsub said:
I think most men know, but it is still in their nature to want to solve our problems.
Click to expand...
You'd be correct. i'm pretty good at chaos in the moment. i just dread when i sense it on the horizon, or during clean-up afterwards. It takes a bit to bite the tongue and/or pin the hands to the seams when you see it coming, but realize you've gotta let it happen, or end up in Netz's Ambiguityland.
FurryFury said:
And how about those people who prefer to whine but never actually want to change or fix anything?

:rose:
Click to expand...
Shoot them out the airlock towards Pluto.
intothewoods said:
I'm actually a fixer. And I like hearing ideas from other fixers.

I also don't like to talk incessantly when I first get home or cuddle.

Don't worry, I'm annoying in plenty of other ways. :)
Click to expand...
You get two gold stars and a bye for the first of other annoying ways.
 
Arkhilokhus said:
I found that my ability to do this increased as I learned how to sit and experience unpleasant emotions. My tendency has always been to attack whatever's hurting me as a way of dealing with sadness or whatever. But learning to just feel that, to show that kind of courage and perseverence, has really helped me to let women do the same.
Click to expand...

My *ability* to do this increased when I figured out that they need to cry and vent no matter what sometimes. My capacity for it did not particularly increase. In short, I can, but it is not fun.
 
In our relationship, I am both crier and fixer. I do it for both of us, while he reads the newspaper.
 
rinka said:
I have been thinking about in what way communication can be different in a D/s relationship. Since I'm new to this I have found it hard sometimes to know when to express my needs and thoughts and when to wait for my PYL's cue or question. Wanting him to lead, but at the same time having all these emotions and issues popping up in me.

I've often thought that I should wait and be patient and all that. The thing is I am rather emotional, impatient and quite transparent so I rarely succeed. :rolleyes:

And I am definitely a cryer. For all sorts of reasons. Overwhelming, anger, loneliness, confusion, shame, guilt, relief.... you name it.

Sometimes I feel that my emotional expression and outlet has too much impact on the relationship. But holding back would also mean a less open and honest communication and neither of us want that. (Couldn't do it either.)

When does expressing needs and emotions turn into a form of control? And how to find a good balance there?
Click to expand...
This is a really good question.

I'd say it turns into a form of control when the D allows him/herself to be controlled by the expression.
 
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