Examples of a female archetype; can you help?

Pure

Fiel a Verdad
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I'm looking to pick others' brains about what i'll call, a female archetype; loosely, any mythic or compelling figure from the arts or literature, including even pop culture. but a particular one: she is to embody power, but NOT be a mom [i.e. not primarily a 'mom' to her partner]. Abby Holland and Swamp Thing could be an example. [[Belle, in Beauty and the Beast is another example.]]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SwampThing22.jpg

Further, this figure, who is sexual, is not simply a 'love goddess,' an aphrodite, at least as we understand her now. this figure having a hold over males, often subjects one in particular. she, in many stories, loves this subject, in her own way, which may include torment. the 'subject' is sometimes less than human; generally defective in many ways, but one. he is devoted and loving.

I don't find any major figures of Greek Myth, to fit very well, e.g. not Athena, Demeter, Hera. These just mentioned tend to be virgins or wives, reflecting Greek patriarchy, i suppose.

[[some of the femmes fatales fit, possibly Mme de Merteuil [Glenn Close], in Dangerous Liaisons, or Lola, in the 'Blue Angel,' but not those simply chasing the big bucks and/or actively trying to kill the lover or husband.]][revised at *]

the standard fdom or 'domme' of most porn stories fits poorly as well, being a male fantasy figment. her cruelty tends to be a tack on [[to the services she provides]]; she's often simply jenna jameson with a whip.

besides giving a name, if you'd characterize the person a bit, and give any reflections, that would be helpful.

note: if you have written anything with such a figure, or seen her here are lit, let us know. let's discuss.!
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ADDITION

11-08 10 am
1. As Stella pointed out--thanks!-- the above can, with small modifications, equally apply to a woman of power who is lesbian.

2. I did not mean to exclude all moms, i.e. women with children; i simply wanted it to be the case that she was NOT just a 'mom figure' -or not primarily that--to her subject/partner.
----

*
Modification:

In the course of discussion is has become clear that femme fatale is a rather different figure, though she has strength in commmon with the archetype sought (femme de pouvoir). The archetype sought is NOT hostile to her partner, but has a beneficial effect in various ways, and is often protective. The femme fatale brings misery and destruction [after the infatuation of her prey]; the archetype sought brings some kind of fulfillment and thriving. Another issue is the *degree* of control or direction, from the relatively laissez faire but guiding ("Marge" in Fargo) to total direction. Again, the difference with the femme fatale is that the ff's control over the situation, is at best heedless self- seeking at the expense of the other, and, at worse, destructive or lethal.
 
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I'm looking to pick others' brains about what i'll call, a female archetype; loosely, any mythic or compelling figure from the arts or literature, including even pop culture. but a particular one: she is to embody power, but NOT be a mom. Abby Holland and Swamp Thing could be an example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SwampThing22.jpg

Further, this figure, who is sexual, is not simply a 'love goddess,' an aphrodite, at least as we understand her now. this figure having a hold over males, often subjects one in particular. she, in many stories, loves this subject, in her own way, which includes torment. the 'subject' is sometimes less than human; generally defective in many ways, but one. he is devoted and loving.

I don't find any major figures of Greek Myth, to fit very well, e.g. not Athena, Demeter, Hera. These just mentioned tend to be virgins or wives, reflecting Greek patriarchy, i suppose.

some of the femmes fatales fit, possibly Mme de Merteuil [Glenn Close], in Dangerous Liaisons, or Lola, in the 'Blue Angel,' but not those simply chasing the big bucks and/or actively trying to kill the lover or husband.

the standard fdom or 'domme' of most porn stories fits poorly as well, being a male fantasy figment. her cruelty tends to be a tack on; she's often simply jenna jameson with a whip.

note: if you have written anything with such a figure, or seen her here are lit, let us know. let's discuss.!

The kind of figure you describe exists in Irish legend and saga. Check that out. I'm not a Celtic scholar so I don't remember her name.
 
Artemis, Pure. You forgot Artemis.

Edit - wait, Artemis was more like stone butch/tomboy than femme fatale.
 
the story of Ossian, that's what I'm trying to remember. The queen goes to visit another king across the valley with all her warriors, etc. and says basically, "Wanna fuck?"
 
The kind of figure you describe exists in Irish legend and saga. Check that out. I'm not a Celtic scholar so I don't remember her name.
Yeah, a sulky, or a Shelty or something like that, I'm not too up on Irish mythology.
 
'Clackclackclackclackclack...whirr...ding...*giggle*...clackclackclackclackclackclack...whirr...ding...*giggle* ...clackclackclack...'

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you said Female Teletype.

Never mind. :eek:
 
The 'subject" sounds like what is sometimes referred to as a "pet" in BDSM - i.e., one who enjoys acting like and being treated like a pet, the top would be the "owner".
 
1 Mary of Magdala
2 Elizabeth I
3 Eleanor of Acquitaine would be perfect but all those kids!
 
'Clackclackclackclackclack...whirr...ding...*giggle*...clackclackclackclackclackclack...whirr...ding...*giggle* ...clackclackclack...'

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you said Female Teletype.

Never mind. :eek:

Tom! :kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss:

as for the archetype,

good luck honey, as i understand it, she lives with Sasquatch. keep looking, you will prolly find her.
 
Took me a minute but Medea came to mind if you want a classical Greek archetype.

There's also Lauren Bacall.

image


3.gif
 
This is why I write, because that character is so missing from literature. :cool:

My character Stella from "Sarabande" comes pretty close to your archetype, I think and hope. She's straight, too. She owns her boyfriend, and there's no question in her mind about it.

Lina, the SCA Duchesse, from "The ballad of Mad Moll" is something like that as well, in a lesbian setting.

I have a new editing project, a co-writing thing. The main characters are a triad, two men and a woman. I was attracted to the project in a grat part because the woman character is written as a human being; she's pretty enough, she's brash, she's lusty and doesn't mind letting her men know. She's quite toppish-- one of the men is very much a bottom-- she can kick ass plenty for the type of action novel this one is, but she likes her bright-colored clothes and she will cry, on occasion, after she's had to kill someone...
 
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Absolutely amazing woman!

VM: are you maybe thinking of Boudica? Her story is fascinating, too.

No, I wasn't, but agree that she'd certainly fit a number of the requirements. Bad luck that she had to fight soldiers with warriors. That's a guarantee for defeat.
 
No, I wasn't, but agree that she'd certainly fit a number of the requirements. Bad luck that she had to fight soldiers with warriors. That's a guarantee for defeat.
Pure doesn't seem to be looking for a warrior in particular, guys.

he's looking, I think, for a woman with authority and the gravitas to exercise it within a particular type of relationship-- one where she's assumed responsibility for, and control of, a powerful partner.


yeah, Stella McKayne. She takes power over, and responsibility for, a nervy complicated rockstar who has to function on the road. Someday I'll find a plot for that damn thing....
 
Pure doesn't seem to be looking for a warrior in particular, guys.

he's looking, I think, for a woman with authority and the gravitas to exercise it within a particular type of relationship-- one where she's assumed responsibility for, and control of, a powerful partner.


yeah, Stella McKayne. She takes power over, and responsibility for, a nervy complicated rockstar who has to function on the road. Someday I'll find a plot for that damn thing....

Well, as ishtat suggested, Eleanor of Aquitane fits the bill almost perfectly, except for the large number of kids.
 
Well, as ishtat suggested, Eleanor of Aquitane fits the bill almost perfectly, except for the large number of kids.
He may have to just deal with the kids. It was part of the job of being Queen.

But you have reminded me of another couple of women who might fit the bill in some way; Neal Stephenson's "Baroque Cycle" includes a fictional heroine named Eliza who is beloved by the King of the Vagabonds, Jack Shaftoe. She saves his life several times and tries to kill him with a harpoon at one point. :) He also includes the real-life Electress Sophia of Hanover, the mother of King George of England. He gives her some good sexy political scenes.
 
I'm looking to pick others' brains about what i'll call, a female archetype; loosely, any mythic or compelling figure from the arts or literature, including even pop culture. but a particular one: she is to embody power, but NOT be a mom. Abby Holland and Swamp Thing could be an example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SwampThing22.jpg

Further, this figure, who is sexual, is not simply a 'love goddess,' an aphrodite, at least as we understand her now. this figure having a hold over males, often subjects one in particular. she, in many stories, loves this subject, in her own way, which includes torment. the 'subject' is sometimes less than human; generally defective in many ways, but one. he is devoted and loving.

I don't find any major figures of Greek Myth, to fit very well, e.g. not Athena, Demeter, Hera. These just mentioned tend to be virgins or wives, reflecting Greek patriarchy, i suppose.

some of the femmes fatales fit, possibly Mme de Merteuil [Glenn Close], in Dangerous Liaisons, or Lola, in the 'Blue Angel,' but not those simply chasing the big bucks and/or actively trying to kill the lover or husband.

the standard fdom or 'domme' of most porn stories fits poorly as well, being a male fantasy figment. her cruelty tends to be a tack on; she's often simply jenna jameson with a whip.

note: if you have written anything with such a figure, or seen her here are lit, let us know. let's discuss.!
Joan of Arc? There are many stories involving her. She embodies power, at least in her ability to lead a rebellion, but not exactly sexuality. In fact, whenever I think of a typical woman I admire, she comes up on the list regularly.
 
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