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Old 10-30-2012, 02:07 AM   #2251
Netzach
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I realize I do not dwell in the land of subtlety.

I don't give a red velvet rat's patoot about the state of the bagel. I'm easy.

I DO have a frat paddle for childish behavior, as it arises. Recalcitrant about the gym? Spank. Mouthed back? Spank.

I used to be violently opposed to this. Now I like it so much, I'm considering the benefits of a non power based spanko idea, where The Rules are the Master of us both...hm.

People change in weird ways. I think that's my input. Also, do you think you are creating complexity as a way to control things where there might not be so much? Like: work at work, pay attention at home.

Don't I know how hard this is, when home is work is home.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:29 PM   #2252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
do you think you are creating complexity as a way to control things where there might not be so much? Like: work at work, pay attention at home.
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. My ego-brain is willing to set up labyrinths around the simple truth - and I run them like a rat looking for the answer to the universe. (a rat with a red velvet ass, btw - I laughed at that image)

The fact that I'm creating the business does make it a little more difficult to set boundaries, but hardly impossible. That's where my focus will be in the coming weeks.

I'm also a fan of the paddle, spank or slap for bad behavior. I like it a lot more than this kind of behavioral angst - which he resorts to when he's fed up with me, and doesn't want to be bothered with more engaged corrective measures.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:47 AM   #2253
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LOL, every time I think Iíll jump in and interact on this thread I walk away with an ďepic failĒ feeling. I should know by now where I do and do not fit in. Iíll leave this to those who understand.

Best wishes, as always, ES.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:02 AM   #2254
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LOL, every time I think Iíll jump in and interact on this thread I walk away with an ďepic failĒ feeling. I should know by now where I do and do not fit in. Iíll leave this to those who understand.

Best wishes, as always, ES.
Oh, Keroin! Please don't go. There's short-term and long-term issues here; and your perspective is more valuable than you think.

As of last night, I have been accepted back as slave, due to a quick and utter turn-around in my behavior. But in the last few days, with this storm shutting down our city, it hasn't been so hard to demonstrate my commitment.

As the city gets back on its feet, and we all go back to work, I am going to have to figure out how to balance my slavery and my career - either by compartmentalizing my work or allowing him to define my goals. The challenge has just begun.

P.S. I feel the same "fail" over in the cafe, by the way. That's why I hang out over here.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:43 PM   #2255
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Quote:
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Oh, Keroin! Please don't go. There's short-term and long-term issues here; and your perspective is more valuable than you think.

As of last night, I have been accepted back as slave, due to a quick and utter turn-around in my behavior. But in the last few days, with this storm shutting down our city, it hasn't been so hard to demonstrate my commitment.

As the city gets back on its feet, and we all go back to work, I am going to have to figure out how to balance my slavery and my career - either by compartmentalizing my work or allowing him to define my goals. The challenge has just begun.

P.S. I feel the same "fail" over in the cafe, by the way. That's why I hang out over here.
I'm so glad, Eastern Sun! I'm very happy for you. I'm sure you will figure this out, and yes, it is a challenge. One, in my personal experience, that doesn't seem to have an end point in sight. There's always something that changes in a relationship dynamic in one way or another.

Balance isn't something that is simply achieved and allowed to be static. It's an ongoing process.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:43 PM   #2256
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The first crack in the foundation of my obedience is caused by jealousy, one of my greater character flaws. And it's petty.

He wakes me up in the middle of the night to sounds that don't include me; and all I want is to be included. There's no one in our bed but us; he wants to be left alone with his fantasies; and I can't let it go.

If I felt more confident . . . if I didn't feel so isolated . . . I try to honor his wishes, give him his privacy, remain calm, untouched, unmoved, but the jealousy burns like sizzling flesh on a fire I am convinced I didn't light. And I say the thing he has asked me not to say.

This time, it's petty. It's nothing. He even made a joke about it afterwards. But I am struck by the force of that feeling.

I used to let that fire ignite me, and I'd incinerate whoever was near. But every time I sit still in the midst of that jealousy now, refraining from action, from commentary, from narrative, the heat diminishes. And I wonder, in time, if I'll be able to sit in that fire without moving at all. Without trying to run away. Or douse it with tears.

It's petty. But these little cracks in the foundation have to be monitored.

Obedience only means one thing.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:56 AM   #2257
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I've mended the crack, by fixing a long-standing problem with our tv and choosing a movie he liked.

I usually dread choosing movies, because when I'm given the choice my mind flies to movies he would never choose himself. Well before our kids were born, I took myself to "The Little Mermaid" and cried and cried at Ariel's plight. And now that my youngest is entering high school, I can't find anyone to go to "Brave" or "Moonrise Kingdom" with me.

If I'm focussed, though, it isn't hard to figure out something we would both enjoy. It's funny how much concentration it takes, though. And the right frame of mind.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:24 AM   #2258
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Curious about what you said about your creative work and his past control over it.

That might reveal my true nature because I don't think I've ever had someone else control my creative work. I suppose that just happened. I definitely have had a lot of guidance and input from others of course, but I've never had anyone direct my creative work globally.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:13 PM   #2259
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In going through the older posts on this thread, one thing strikes me over and over. There are many things we do (or don't do) which we classify as master/slave, or D/s; which many other people don't see in that light. Choosing a seat in a restaurant is one. My husband knows I don't like to sit facing a wall, so he never puts me in that position. It has nothing to do with m/s; in his case it's a very male thing - or maybe a southern male thing: a man is judged by how well he takes care of his woman. I think it's neat how some guys can delegate on whatever issues they wish, and still be very dominant.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:58 PM   #2260
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Quote:
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If I'm focussed, though, it isn't hard to figure out something we would both enjoy. The right frame of mind.
.....
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:06 PM   #2261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothewoods View Post
Curious about what you said about your creative work and his past control over it.

That might reveal my true nature because I don't think I've ever had someone else control my creative work. I suppose that just happened. I definitely have had a lot of guidance and input from others of course, but I've never had anyone direct my creative work globally.
I'm trying to decide how I would feel about a hire who was dancing to the tune of their spouse and I can't come up with anything good.

If it makes them happier I guess that's good but I sure the hell do NOT want to have ANY insight into that. If I'm writing a check, I'm putting a name on it for a reason.
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Last edited by Netzach : 11-04-2012 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:29 PM   #2262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianCain View Post
Originally Posted by eastern sun
If I'm focussed, though, it isn't hard to figure out something we would both enjoy. . . . The right frame of mind.


Yeah. I get it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:43 PM   #2263
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In going through the older posts on this thread, one thing strikes me over and over. There are many things we do (or don't do) which we classify as master/slave, or D/s; which many other people don't see in that light. Choosing a seat in a restaurant is one. My husband knows I don't like to sit facing a wall, so he never puts me in that position. It has nothing to do with m/s; in his case it's a very male thing - or maybe a southern male thing: a man is judged by how well he takes care of his woman. I think it's neat how some guys can delegate on whatever issues they wish, and still be very dominant.
You're right. It's one of the reasons I started writing this thread. There are a whole lot of behaviors that look pretty mundane from any outside perspective, but have much deeper significance within the context of our relationship.

Once in a while, more overt behaviors - like playful hits and slaps - or brash verbal admonishments - draw people's attention when we're out in the neighborhood, but it's still well within the range of "normal" behavior.

If he's really serious, the corrective measures will be virtually invisible to anyone other than me.

(One of my favorites was when he discovered he could step on my foot to make me shut up in a social situation. It hurt, and I was immediately responsive; but no one standing next to us had any indication that anything out of the ordinary had taken place at all.)
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:40 PM   #2264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
I'm trying to decide how I would feel about a hire who was dancing to the tune of their spouse and I can't come up with anything good.

If it makes them happier I guess that's good but I sure the hell do NOT want to have ANY insight into that. If I'm writing a check, I'm putting a name on it for a reason.
Well, I can see where someone maybe fell in love with their mentor and then had that kind of relationship -- where creativity and love intertwined. I just never had anyone like that.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:53 PM   #2265
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Curious about what you said about your creative work and his past control over it.
I definitely have had a lot of guidance and input from others of course, but I've never had anyone direct my creative work globally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
I'm trying to decide how I would feel about a hire who was dancing to the tune of their spouse and I can't come up with anything good.
So, running the risk of too much information, I'll just explain that we met at work about 28 years ago, and he was in charge of training me. So from the very first days we knew each other, he has been involved in "how" I do what I do.

In fact, my first major project as a young woman was a wedding gift he gave to me (i.e. he booked a program that only I would be able to direct).

When we moved to NYC, I did not take jobs that he did not approve of (one of which would have probably launched an independent career for me, and which he readily admits made him feel insecure at the time).

In the business we created together, he was Artistic Director, and I was Executive Director. He was the idea man, I handled logistics.

At one point right before our children were born (coinciding with my trip to "The Little Mermaid" and the depth of my identification with a heroine who had given up her voice for the love of her prince), I decided that I needed to find out what my own creative vision was.

Within a couple of years, I was pregnant with a group of funded grants that demanded his time and energy in the service of creative projects he ultimately had no interest in.

Crisis. After a serious power struggle, we resolved ourselves in this M/s framework.

And, here we are today.

Within the M/s framework, we have experienced a wide range of variables when it comes to "my career." I have stopped working altogether. I have worked on my own projects during my own time (which kept them small). I have worked under his direction; and I have assisted him in his work, even directing him in a theatrical production.

But, last year, I created a new business of my own. And I have been protecting it against his influence with a vehemence that doesn't really make sense, given the respect I have for him as both an artist and a director.

Keeping "the right frame of mind" to sustain the M/s relationship has already cut into time and focus I would otherwise turn towards this new business. Now - maybe that's all right. He's very supportive of the work I do; the hurricane has disrupted everyone's lives; and it's hard to know where all this will ultimately settle.

Maybe the scope of my work will be defined by the time I have to give to it. Maybe I'll emphasize one aspect over another because of his perception of which one will be a better business choice (i.e. more profitable - that is one of my weak points, and his input could be very valuable). Maybe a portion of the time I am spending on this project of mine will be spent on that project of his - so we can both develop simultaneously.

These are not bad choices. But they all require me to let go of my own agenda, and allow him to influence the course of my work. I used to do that without hesitation, but in the last few years, I have grown attached to my own projects. And I'm protecting them with territorial ferocity.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:55 PM   #2266
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Well, I can see where someone maybe fell in love with their mentor and then had that kind of relationship -- where creativity and love intertwined. I just never had anyone like that.
ding ding ding

(though we actually stand on more equal footing since we were the same age and at similar levels of accomplishment)
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:18 PM   #2267
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Eastern Sun~ I have been reading your thread for about a week now... I am almost halfway through it but I just had to stop and tell you how amazing and inspiring you writing is to me! I have just finally decided to embrace my desires to be submissive. I have always been drawn to this lifestyle and never had the courage. While I am not a slave or have had a physical D/s relationship yet. Your thread has inspired me so much and really caused me to look deep inside to really see the whys of what I want to do. I am so looking forward to finishing this thread and being able to keep current. Thank you so much for your writing!
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:13 PM   #2268
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Originally Posted by eastern sun View Post
So, running the risk of too much information, I'll just explain that we met at work about 28 years ago, and he was in charge of training me. So from the very first days we knew each other, he has been involved in "how" I do what I do.

In fact, my first major project as a young woman was a wedding gift he gave to me (i.e. he booked a program that only I would be able to direct).

When we moved to NYC, I did not take jobs that he did not approve of (one of which would have probably launched an independent career for me, and which he readily admits made him feel insecure at the time).

In the business we created together, he was Artistic Director, and I was Executive Director. He was the idea man, I handled logistics.

At one point right before our children were born (coinciding with my trip to "The Little Mermaid" and the depth of my identification with a heroine who had given up her voice for the love of her prince), I decided that I needed to find out what my own creative vision was.

Within a couple of years, I was pregnant with a group of funded grants that demanded his time and energy in the service of creative projects he ultimately had no interest in.

Crisis. After a serious power struggle, we resolved ourselves in this M/s framework.

And, here we are today.

Within the M/s framework, we have experienced a wide range of variables when it comes to "my career." I have stopped working altogether. I have worked on my own projects during my own time (which kept them small). I have worked under his direction; and I have assisted him in his work, even directing him in a theatrical production.

But, last year, I created a new business of my own. And I have been protecting it against his influence with a vehemence that doesn't really make sense, given the respect I have for him as both an artist and a director.

Keeping "the right frame of mind" to sustain the M/s relationship has already cut into time and focus I would otherwise turn towards this new business. Now - maybe that's all right. He's very supportive of the work I do; the hurricane has disrupted everyone's lives; and it's hard to know where all this will ultimately settle.

Maybe the scope of my work will be defined by the time I have to give to it. Maybe I'll emphasize one aspect over another because of his perception of which one will be a better business choice (i.e. more profitable - that is one of my weak points, and his input could be very valuable). Maybe a portion of the time I am spending on this project of mine will be spent on that project of his - so we can both develop simultaneously.

These are not bad choices. But they all require me to let go of my own agenda, and allow him to influence the course of my work. I used to do that without hesitation, but in the last few years, I have grown attached to my own projects. And I'm protecting them with territorial ferocity.

Oh, see influence and control are two completely different things, in my world.

I gather influence from ALL around me. From the end customer. From T. From M. I commit to other people's ideas of how it should work just to prove them wrong and only to prove myself wrong instead.

I've run into the periodic conflict with M, who would love it if I made the same money some other way. I've sometimes let it tweak my path, but usually not, depending on what the bottom line is.

I've been better off every time I threw any kind of an originality/maverick/I-thought of-every-bit-of-this impulse aside and stayed open to those influences.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:22 PM   #2269
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It sounds like he was more controlling the logistics of your creative work than the nature of the work itself, although of course the work itself would be affected as well.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:54 PM   #2270
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Control - (noun)

1. the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events
2. the ability to manage a machine or other moving object
3. the restriction of an action, tendency or other phenomenon
4. the power to restrain something, especially one's own emotions or actions
5. a means of limiting or regulating something
6. the base from which a system or activity is directed

Control - (verb)

1. determine the behavior or supervise the running of
2. maintain influence or authority over
3. limit the level, intensity, or numbers of
4. remain calm and reasonable despite provocation
5. regulate

"to be in control" - able to direct a situation, person or activity
"out of control" - no longer possible to manage
"under control" - being dealt with successfully and competently


I don't mean to get semantic, but I had to take another look at what "control" actually means.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:08 AM   #2271
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On Sunday morning, he reintroduced proactive service as the ultimate goal.
"You need to be able to do what is required without being told to."

Proactive service without obedience is meaningless.
But obedience without proactive service is tiresome.

He wants to be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:08 PM   #2272
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From his perspective, things have not changed that dramatically. I am now spending too much time thinking and writing about service (here on the forum) . . . time that would be better spent serving.

Hmm...what else can I say?

C'mon peeps! Help me out here.

...I'm waiting...

***********************************

(He came in - read my first paragraph - nodded - took my reading glasses - added the rest - laughed - and left.

I'm just going to sit here a little while longer before I go downstairs. )
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:55 PM   #2273
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Quote:
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From his perspective, things have not changed that dramatically. I am now spending too much time thinking and writing about service (here on the forum) . . . time that would be better spent serving.

Hmm...what else can I say?

C'mon peeps! Help me out here.

...I'm waiting...

***********************************

(He came in - read my first paragraph - nodded - took my reading glasses - added the rest - laughed - and left.

I'm just going to sit here a little while longer before I go downstairs. )
Well I said you should schedule time for service! I'm with Keroin though. Your life is interesting and I love this thread but I think I'm not so qualified to give advice.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:09 AM   #2274
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Testing.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:48 AM   #2275
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Exclamation re: romantic D/s

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On Sunday morning, he reintroduced proactive service as the ultimate goal.
"You need to be able to do what is required without being told to."

Proactive service without obedience is meaningless.
But obedience without proactive service is tiresome.

He wants to be pleasantly surprised.
Nobody has ever gotten needs met by expecting the other partner to become a mindreader.
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