Must physical pain be a part of a D/s relationship?

Greetings,

Ive lurked for a few weeks here and must say that I find myself being drawn to the dominent side of D/s. My wife first introduced me to this and started me thinking about assuming the dominant to her submissive. As of this point we're kind of dancing around each other finding boundries and limits. The only really serious thing that has happened so far is that I have spanked her for being extremely and unjustifiably insulant tward me one evening.
The stange thing is that this incident disturbed me in the same way that spanking a child would. It was something that I felt I had to do because I had exhausted every other option, but there was nothing sexually exciting about it. I guess you could say that my "style" tends more tward mental dominance. Im more about helping, nurturing and praise (when warranted) so that she may be led down the path of self-confidence, then about "punishment's".
It seems though from reading alot of different posts on the subject that for alot of people, this lifestyle is about pain and humiliation (to each his or her own, no "judgement" intended!).
Im not really sure what Im asking with this but would appreciate hearing thoughts on this from both sides in an effort to help me "get my thoughts straight" on this.

Thanks in advance,
Leo

The answer to your question is no.

There are Dominants who are neither sadistic nor interested in physical punishment, and consequently never intentionally inflict pain.

leod65 said:

The only really serious thing that has happened so far is that I have spanked her for being extremely and unjustifiably insulant tward me one evening.
The stange thing is that this incident disturbed me in the same way that spanking a child would.

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How did your wife react? Was it a positive or negative experience for her overall?

i sass my husband on pupose to get this result if it has been a long time since we had a pain session and i am needing it. When i say i sass to get it, i don't mean i am playfully a bit bratty, i mean i seriously sass and say things i know he hates. Its not really premeditated. i don't start out thinking that is my goal but as soon as he threatens it then its no holds barred. i'm getting it. During the punishment i do feel genuine guilt and feel much more connected to him after his dominance has been reestablished. He is definitely the more dominant guiding force in our relationship but his dominance is seldom very overt and sometimes i just really crave a more dramatic reminder. The dynamic is very different if i've actually done something wrong. If i haven't and we have a pain session it feels more like just play, like sex, but a punishment restablishes things and helps me feel grounded in a very real way.

Children do the same thing. Sometimes you can see it when they misbehave. Its like they are begging you to let them know where the line is and keep them safely inside it. You may not enjoy doing it but they may need it just the same.

i need pain but i do not really like it and do not become sexually aroused by heavy pain. It doesn't have to be about sex. i've had punishment sessions where he got aroused and fucked me and others where he didn't and didn't. i definitely prefer to be fucked after because that is how i am programmed to know i am still loved but if it doesn't work out that way i'm okay with that too. i understand the punishment was because he loves me and knows what i need to feel okay.

i wouldn't necessarily give up on pain play just because you did not get aroused that one time. My husband doesn't get the sadistic bug that often and it was definitely more difficult for him when we were first starting out. Over the past year in our ups and downs figuring things out i have noticed that he actually becomes more aroused if a pain session is to punish a real offense which i found surprising. Perhaps he needs the justification in order to let go and allow himself to feel that.

If you find the pain thing just really isn't for either of you don't do it. Its absolutely not needed to have a meaningful D/s relationship. We do a pain session probably less than once a month these days and a heavy pain session even less. i don't think i've been marked for about 90 days.

There are other ways topunish a sub or modify their behavior other than physical punishment, just like those who do not believe in spanking a child. I'm in a LDR so physical discipline usually is not possible. (we don't believe in me using self-inflicted pain as discipline)

My PYL is extremely creative and effective in the ways he chooses to mold my behavior. He usually uses ways that cause me to feel guilt/regret or shame for disappointing him. Or he simply takes away privilages.

No it isn't. Humiliation can be much more powerful but honestly if you aren't sadistic you may not like doing that either.

i personally respond best to positive reinforcement and love nurturing but i absolutely must have the contrast of very very bad things. Being humiliated and then having my tears kissed away will always be more powerful and establish the dominance of my partner more solidly than kisses and praise alone.

Not everyone is like this though.

ecstaticsub said:

There are other ways topunish a sub or modify their behavior other than physical punishment, just like those who do not believe in spanking a child. I'm in a LDR so physical discipline usually is not possible. (we don't believe in me using self-inflicted pain as discipline)

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When it comes to punishment and behaivor modification i kinda thing you need to do whatever works best on that particular submissive. When it comes to pleasure do whatever you want but with behaivor modification your preferred method may not always be the most effective method and could backfire.

This is going to be doubly important for you because you don't get to choose your submissive. You're already married to her.

If something else works. Great.

my husband and i were vanilla for almost 10 years and then introduced D/s into our relationship. At first i was intensely excited because it was what i had always wanted but i quickly found out that merely having D/s wasn't going to make all my dreams suddenly come true. We found early on that i had and still have far fewer limits than he does and a much higher drive. Its been challenging for him to estabilish dominance in our situation. He has done it more or less but does make a lot of allowances just because of the fact that our desires are still fairly far apart.

There is no "just in the bedroom" for me really or him even. i want to be a good submissive overall, both in and out of the bedroom. i want to be a good submissive to him but its difficult to feel like a good sub when most often the only way to demonstrate submissiveness is by NOT doing things. Not enduring pain. Not enduring humiliation. Not being used sexually but still towing the line and doing all that is expected of me with a smile on my face.

D/s has absolutely made our marriage richer and stronger. It has made both of us face parts of ourselves we never knew were there. We know each other better and are more accepting but it wasn't a quick path to getting everything just how i or he wanted it. There have been LOTS of compromises and continue to be, more so i think than there may have been had we started out D/s and already knew we were compatible as Dom and sub.

i realize this wasn't your question but i figured i would share since i have the experience of trying to make D/s work in a long standing vanilla relatioship.

The submissive partner is often expected to experience things that make them feel intensely uncomfortable and this is to be expected. What you may not have thought about is that on your new path you as the dominant may also have to be willing to experience things you find uncomfortable and through those experiences you may learn more about yourself and become more accepting of both yourself and your partner.

i wish you the best of luck!

Pain can be a useful tool. It can be a means to an end or a part of the end itself. If you don't enjoy administering pain, then that's fine - as long as your lady doesn't crave it.

I am a total painwhore and I'm fortunate enough to be the property of a sadist. Master enjoys my pain, he loves making me scream and squirm and I have a very high tolerance. Having said that, if he is punishing me, I hate the pain. It's not a case of sassing him to get what I want because his anger and disappointment are the opposite of what I want as a service oriented slave. At these times, my pain threshold plummets and I get no joy from the chastisement. The psychology of it all really can be key.

If the spanking had started playfully and been a positive thing for her to experience, would causing her pain still have left you cold? Nowhere is it written that all dominants must be sadists but if your wife enjoys pain there might be a need for some re-negotiation and/or compromise to ensure that you both get what you want and need.

ETA: If she is misbehaving and sassing you because she knows it's the only way she'll get physical 'punishment' from you and it's really what she wants then you're being manipulated, which will corrode your dynamic if left unchecked. What she experiences, whether positive or negative, should be on your terms and for the right reasons or you'll make a rod for your own back as a dominant.

JM was spot on when he said that there are dominants that don't engage in painplay. What I will also offer is that the fact that it was punishment might have been off-putting to you on its' own. I can be a mean sadistic bastard, and get my jollies off of it plenty, but the few times I've physically punished a gal of mine have left me shaken and feeling horrible. I utterly despise being pushed to the point where I feel the only recourse is physical punishment. The majority of the few times I have done it were at the request of the person being punished. I still felt awful.

To be frank, in my eyes, in my relationships, if a situation gets to the point where I feel the only worthwhile option is to punish physically, I have failed as much as she has. If you are built the same way, this may have contributed to your displeasure.

Lastly, don't discard painplay too quickly. We all grow and change in this. I am more of a sadist now than I was when I started. You might find the same change in yourself.

Pain doesn't have to be a part of the relationship, nor does humiliation, but what many find turns them off about these areas when new to the lifestyle are their own fear of how far they might go, what it says about them as a person and partner, whether they will cause real damage on a 'not so good' scale, what others would think, and most of all the way we are raised to believe you never hurt those you love. As time passes, and confidence grows with the experience, some of us find that we begin to realise that love can mean hurting the ones we love (or being hurt by them), and that as much as we guard against hurting our lovers in a harmful way, there might be times when the safest thing unexpectedly hurts them without warning.

For some it is about shedding the burden of denial to allow open exploration in an honest and safe environment...for some it is about discovering something in themselves they never thought existed. And for others it might be just as you feel at the moment, that pain and/or humiliation is just not where you want to go. Best advice I can give is to keep an open mind, discuss everything honestly, and feel free to explore some of the darker places inside you and your partner without fear. Mental domination features in most if not all people's D/s as a base if not a huge element of it, even when physical pain is also a part...D/s begins in the mind. Even so, with the greatest intentions, even then using only mental domination cannot guarantee you will not cause harm.

Catalina

leod65 said:

The only really serious thing that has happened so far is that I have spanked her for being extremely and unjustifiably insulant tward me one evening.
The stange thing is that this incident disturbed me in the same way that spanking a child would. It was something that I felt I had to do because I had exhausted every other option, but there was nothing sexually exciting about it.

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The very last thing I would want to do with an extremely and unjustifiably insolent woman would be to interact with her physically - in any capacity.

Walking away can be an extraordinarily effective way to drive home the message about which behaviors you refuse to tolerate. "I refuse to be around you when you act like this; let me know if & when you're ready to shape up" takes her "Make me submit!" challenge and flips it around to put the onus on her.

Everyone's different. This is just one M.O. for consideration.

There are certainly no requirements for all relationships to involve the administration of humiliation or pain. The ingredients are as unique as the people involved.

Years ago when I first started researching my interest I would read about people's reactions to pain and wasn't sure that I could be that person. Even though the stories that I most enjoyed had some version of the woman crying out in pain at the lashes, I felt uncomfortable at the same time I was incredibly turned on. Looking at pictures, I viewed them with the feeling that someone would walk in on me and I would have to explain even if though I was alone. I wasn't completely unfamiliar with the concept of being able to positively process pain. I had done it many times with my ex preferring to continue what I was doing rather than tell him to stop because what he was doing at that time hurt. Biting was/is a favorite thing for me and anything too light to leave marks is a nibble in my opinion.

I didn't realize that I had come to enjoy these sensations over time (or that I inherently did...like the chicken and the egg it is really a moot point in my opinion.) I'm sure there were many of the societal installations of it not being right or proper (being "proper" is a big thing when you are a female growing up in the south.) The things I was more aware of were the thought of someone taking it too far, being unsure if someone who enjoys inflicting pain is really an abuser in disguise. We are surrounded in general society about the warning signs of potential abusers. I also wondered if I would not know when I was going too far as well. It took time for me to be comfortable with the fact that this in itself was not a sign of an abuser nor that my interest was a sign that I was looking for an outlet for deep seated issues.

As time progressed, I accepted these realizations. I looked into it more. I stopped trying to censor myself based on the concepts of someone else. I fine tuned what appealed to me. The stories that drew my attention were not as soft as what they were in the beginning. The pictures would be passed over unless there were marks visible. I still wasn't sure that my interest would transfer to real life.

When I tried it, it wasn't in the form of punishment but in the form of sharing. It was wonderfully positive and held the promise of being able to join what I imagined and what I knew. In my mind, I have taken to it fairly quickly as far as feeling the need to advance. I've not only felt I needed more, I have requested/given permission to go further. I find that desire for the marks I've admired on others has increased to a craving, ready at least mentally for those boundaries to be pushed.

Humiliation...that is still a more abstract concept to me. After reading what others have had to say on the subject I realize that I have had an interest in that as well. I just didn't understand that was the underlying motivation. That is not something that has been pushed with me and I am curious to how I will respond.

Emotional pain is something I have always been familiar with. Every major relationship I have has has included that. It is part of life. It is part of loving. I have always appreciated the fact that only those that you love the most and feel that same emotion for you can cause it. In a positive relationship it is a building block. To feel that pain you have to love. To get over that pain you have to trust, communicate which leads to a stronger bond. I am a firm believer you feel hurt in direct proportion to how much you love. That is a price I assume and am willing to pay.

D/s, alone, has always meant "control" to me. How that control is achieved is negotiable between the concerned parties.

I think there are different kinds of pain, at least for me. There's illness/injury pain, there's punishment pain, and there's erotic pain. That last one might sound odd, but it works in my world. It all depends on my state of mind and how the pain is administered. An over-the-knee spanking can be punishing and humiliating, or it can be a really hot tease. When one is sexually excited (for some) pain can be perceived as something more than, or different than, something that just plain hurts.

I'm not wild about outright humiliation. But it's amazing the kinds of things that Master can say to me, or the situations he can put me in, where something that makes me squirm on one level will make me hot on another, all at the same time. It's not about making me feel bad about myself, but about challenging my own notions about what's "proper" in a given situation.

desertslave said:

D/s, alone, has always meant "control" to me. How that control is achieved is negotiable between the concerned parties.

I think there are different kinds of pain, at least for me. There's illness/injury pain, there's punishment pain, and there's erotic pain. That last one might sound odd, but it works in my world. It all depends on my state of mind and how the pain is administered. An over-the-knee spanking can be punishing and humiliating, or it can be a really hot tease. When one is sexually excited (for some) pain can be perceived as something more than, or different than, something that just plain hurts.
.

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Well said.
You may not want to hurt her physically. So go mentally.
Either way, correction through negative punishment MUST be and remain an element or else the exertion of your Dominance over her will not be felt by her.
She needs that control. She needs to know that her place is secured. And to do that, she needs your Top to balance out her bottom.

If you cannot bring yourself to punish her in any way, this journey must come to a swift end for now.

For D/s in general? No! There's all those TIH people who don't even do bondage or S&M and they are doms and subs all the same...

For me... YES!

Spank me. Whip me. Flogg me. Bite me. Scratch me. Choke me. Slap me. Hold me. Take me.

And don't take me otherwise.

No half way. Keep me, or don't... but don't keep me pent up in a tiny cage and travel with out me... forcing me to punish myself, fuck myself, be my own mate... and you just come tell me what to do and monopolize my time, forcing me to go elsewhere for my needs and you just keep drawing from my life, spirit and soul?

No. Pain is a need.

To be my dominant you must give me what I need. As I do in return...

I have to have my pain to be normal, to feel clam and organized.

But in general, no... Pain is just another side of sex, another facet, you like it or you don't...

But I do.

On a basic level-NO

In my relationship-YES

unfoundiamond said:

No. Pain is a need.

To be my dominant you must give me what I need. As I do in return...

I have to have my pain to be normal, to feel clam and organized.

But in general, no... Pain is just another side of sex, another facet, you like it or you don't...

But I do.

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Beautifully said!

twysted73 said:

You may not want to hurt her physically. So go mentally.
Either way, correction through negative punishment MUST be and remain an element or else the exertion of your Dominance over her will not be felt by her.
She needs that control. She needs to know that her place is secured. And to do that, she needs your Top to balance out her bottom.

If you cannot bring yourself to punish her in any way, this journey must come to a swift end for now.

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As a general point, your assertion is incorrect. There are many D/s couples who are totally uninterested in punishment as a relationship dynamic.

More specifically, with respect to the OP, we have very little information - certainly not enough to make proclamations about what his wife needs.

JMohegan said:

As a general point, your assertion is incorrect. There are many D/s couples who are totally uninterested in punishment as a relationship dynamic.

More specifically, with respect to the OP, we have very little information - certainly not enough to make proclamations about what his wife needs.

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On the other hand if its all nicey nice "helping, nurturing and praise" all the time then where exactly is the dominance? i do kinda think there has to be either sadism, punishment or both or its not Dominance and submission, its just submission. i've certainly met plenty of Tops who think D/s is the bottom submits or they throw a pouty hissy fit and say you aren't a "true sub". Very dull.

i guess you could argue "submit or i ignore you" is Dominance but i wouldn't say its the kind of D/s that fosters trust and takes things to a higher level.

ataxia.girl said:

On the other hand if its all nicey nice "helping, nurturing and praise" all the time then where exactly is the dominance? i do kinda think there has to be either sadism, punishment or both or its not Dominance and submission, its just submission. i've certainly met plenty of Tops who think D/s is the bottom submits or they throw a pouty hissy fit and say you aren't a "true sub". Very dull.

i guess you could argue "submit or i ignore you" is Dominance but i wouldn't say its the kind of D/s that fosters trust and takes things to a higher level.

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The idea that the wife behaves in an "extremely and unjustifiably insolent" way, and this is somehow the husband's responsibility to correct, is an idea that I personally find incomprehensible.

We're not talking about an order to scrub the bathroom with a toothbrush, suck off the neighbors, and reorganize the garage by next Tuesday. We're talking basic levels of respect here.

Of course, there *are* D/s couples who thrive on a relatively combative dynamic. She acts out, he responds, and both are satisfied with the outcome. Nothing wrong with that if it suits both parties, but the OP doesn't sound like he's into that sort of thing.

JMohegan said:

Of course, there *are* D/s couples who thrive on a relatively combative dynamic. She acts out, he responds, and both are satisfied with the outcome. Nothing wrong with that if it suits both parties, but the OP doesn't sound like he's into that sort of thing.

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Well this kinda goes back to because they are already married he may not get to exercise Dominance in exactly the way he would prefer and of course by the same token she also can't expect to be Dominated in exactly the way she likes.

If someone hands you a sub and says "here's your sub" things are going to work a lot differently than if you get to go shopping for someone who's style is fairly compatible with your own. Add into the mix that both parties are inexperienced and it gets even more fun.

If she's never been a sub he's never been a Dom she's probably not going to start out trusting his skills and is probably going to act out to see where the boundaries are. It sounds pretty natural. This may even mean outlandish behaivor she wouldn't have done previously because they are trying to figure it out and are expiramenting.

i don't think one episode of acting out and a spanking in the beginning of a D/s relationship makes for a pattern of topping from the bottom and baiting your Dominant to get attention. There has to be some testing i think especially when you only know your partner as vanilla.

i still really want to know how she reacted to his response.

leod65 said:

I guess you could say that my "style" tends more tward mental dominance. Im more about helping, nurturing and praise (when warranted) so that she may be led down the path of self-confidence, then about "punishment's".
It seems though from reading alot of different posts on the subject that for alot of people, this lifestyle is about pain and humiliation (to each his or her own, no "judgement" intended!)

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So... let me get this straight.

pain = no
humiliation = no
sadism = no (i think we can infer this one by virtue of the no pain, no humiliation)
punishment = no

praise = yes
helping = yes
nurturing = yes

i would kinda like to know where the D is in this D/s. i know it's possible but perhaps that would be a good discussion and helpful to the OP to find out exactly in what way he is Dominant.

i see the carrot. Where is the stick? Does there have to be one?

ataxia.girl said:

If she's never been a sub he's never been a Dom she's probably not going to start out trusting his skills and is probably going to act out to see where the boundaries are. It sounds pretty natural. This may even mean outlandish behaivor she wouldn't have done previously because they are trying to figure it out and are expiramenting.

i don't think one episode of acting out and a spanking in the beginning of a D/s relationship makes for a pattern of topping from the bottom and baiting your Dominant to get attention. There has to be some testing i think especially when you only know your partner as vanilla.

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I agree with you here, but will reiterate what I wrote yesterday.

"I refuse to be around you when you act like this; let me know if & when you're ready to shape up" can be an extraordinarily effective way to establish those boundaries.

ataxia.girl said:

i see the carrot. Where is the stick? Does there have to be one?

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Well, I think there has to be Domination of some kind. Otherwise, a sub is going to go unfulfilled. Domination is as important to a sub as submission is to a Dominant. Sort of a give and take that both people need to be happy.

Does it need to be pain? No. But I'll wager that if a sub needs pain and a Dom doesn't like to engage in pain activities, the relationship is going to suffer. Same as it would if a sadist wanted to engage in pain activities and a sub wasn't a masochist of any stripe.

I think the answer is always, people can define their relationships in any way they like. They can have any content. All that matters is that both parties are comfortable with the limits and boundaries [if there are any].

It's the same thing in ALL relationships. BDSM isn't some rulebook everyone has to follow to the letter. We pick a few items from column A and a few from column B, then we mix and match with those we meet. Sometimes we get real lucky and our kinks match, and there's also an incredible attraction..

It's called compatibility.

JMohegan said:

I agree with you here, but will reiterate what I wrote yesterday.

"I refuse to be around you when you act like this; let me know if & when you're ready to shape up" can be an extraordinarily effective way to establish those boundaries.

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i dunno. i think for subsequent interactions that is probably the best route but proving to her he would go the distance by physically spanking her when he wouldn't before might have been a good thing. i for one would have been impressed if i was the wife in this scenario. We haven't heard from the OP though so its possible she didn't like it at all and the D/s expirament has been abandoned.

If i was ignored on a first offense like that especially where i had no history of being dominated by that D i would have taken his ignoring me as taking the EASY road. Would NOT have been impressed. my behaivor may have been modified but i wouldn't have any more trust in my D.

Now if he did exactly as the OP did and told me "next time something like this happens the result will not be a spanking but in my removing my contact from you until your behaivor changes" that would be a different story.