A submissive's arousal...does it matter?

Domly types...does your submissive partner's sexual arousal really "matter" to you in the grand scheme of things? are you just as satisfied using her/him when they are dry and limp as you are when they are all wet and throbby for you? or perhaps you're MORE interested and stimulated the less physically responsive they are? or do you need to know and feel that they're physically enjoying and needing it all as much as or even more than you do?

subly types...please answer from your perspective.

For moi it depends on my mood, though I am not that attached to my being pleased to get uptight about it when he chooses not to give it any importance or focus. For him (as he doesn't post here anymore), he sometimes wants and demands a response, at other times he takes what he wants and goes back to sleep or back to what he was doing...sometimes on those occassions he is indifferent about my response but just not invested in doing anything about making it happen, at other times he definately doesn't want pleasure to be part of my experience...it is all good. Have to say he is fortunate as I don't have a time when I am dry otherwise he would also be experiencing significant pain which is not his thing at all.

Catalina

I'm going to *attempt* to answer from both viewpoints, osg, if you don't mind terribly.

When I'm the dominant partner, I want the sub to be aroused...eventually. I like when the sub is doing something he/she doesn't like to please me. Then, at some point in the course of the action, I like to turn that person's sexuality against him/her to make that person be aroused by something he/she finds extremely painful or disgusting or whatever. I like for the thought process to go from, "No, please don't do that" to "No, please don't stop."

As the submissive partner (which is the side I have the most experience with), I haven't been with a dominant yet who didn't want me to receive pleasure in some way. From what I understand from my previous partners, it's quite a boost to the old ego to turn a generally quiet and reserved girl into one who's moaning and writhing and begging and screaming. I think them knowing that they're pushing me outside the bounds of my normal behavior excites them to a particular sadistic glee. For example, I hate being on top during intercourse, always have. I try to avoid it whenever possible. A sadistic partner will put me up there, anyway, and grin at my discomfort, particularly when I start enjoying the sensations in spite of myself.

I'm not sure if that's the kind of answer you were looking for, or if I even answered the question at all. I'm having sort of a mind-body disconnect today.

Depends on my whim, really. I sometimes love the presence of it, sometimes love the absence of it.

Consistency is not my game, oh well.

I'm no sadist

For me, yeah, I want the sub to be enjoying it. Speaking personally, I like controlling her orgasm first and foremost, cultivating it on my terms, preventing it, halting the buildup when she's at the most heightened state I can control, before finally allowing it. That being the case, you could say that giving her pleasure is pretty much an absolute necessity most of the time. That's a daddy-dom talking though. I suspect you'll get different answers from your resident sadists.

I agree with what Bunny said, too, about getting her to enjoy something that's outside her comfort zone, because therein lies the most sexual intensity for both of us....pushing her where she doesn't readily want to go, and yet she gets off on it in spite of herself.

Anyway....yeah, sub's orgasm matters to me.

J

BiBunny said:

I'm going to *attempt* to answer from both viewpoints, osg, if you don't mind terribly.

When I'm the dominant partner, I want the sub to be aroused...eventually. I like when the sub is doing something he/she doesn't like to please me. Then, at some point in the course of the action, I like to turn that person's sexuality against him/her to make that person be aroused by something he/she finds extremely painful or disgusting or whatever. I like for the thought process to go from, "No, please don't do that" to "No, please don't stop."

As the submissive partner (which is the side I have the most experience with), I haven't been with a dominant yet who didn't want me to receive pleasure in some way. From what I understand from my previous partners, it's quite a boost to the old ego to turn a generally quiet and reserved girl into one who's moaning and writhing and begging and screaming. I think them knowing that they're pushing me outside the bounds of my normal behavior excites them to a particular sadistic glee. For example, I hate being on top during intercourse, always have. I try to avoid it whenever possible. A sadistic partner will put me up there, anyway, and grin at my discomfort, particularly when I start enjoying the sensations in spite of myself.

I'm not sure if that's the kind of answer you were looking for, or if I even answered the question at all. I'm having sort of a mind-body disconnect today.

Click to expand...

you answered the question perfectly. i've always been interested in the dynamic you described from the top side, of eventually getting someone to the point where they enjoy and are really aroused by something that previously they disliked, were mentally uncomfy with or just plain hated. it's not something i've ever experienced, but i can just imagine the discomfort and psychological torture of your self-identity being flipped around like that.

catalina_francisco said:

Have to say he is fortunate as I don't have a time when I am dry otherwise he would also be experiencing significant pain which is not his thing at all.

Catalina

Click to expand...

you're never dry? i'm impressed indeed. when i was a frisky young thang i had an issue (in my mind) about being overly wet during sex, but in the last couple of years it's been a very rare thing. has never caused any issue for Daddy, as having to forcibly tear into me has always appealed to him greatly...also he produces such an abundance of pre-cum that any physical discomfort on his part is minor.

ownedsubgal said:

you're never dry? i'm impressed indeed.

Click to expand...

LOL, it has its moments when I think it might be better to be a little less, like when standing waiting to go through the supermarket checkout and feeling it trickling down my legs...at those times I just want to get out of there before I leave a puddle. Of course F thinks it is highly amusing.

Catalina

Netzach said:

Depends on my whim, really. I sometimes love the presence of it, sometimes love the absence of it.

Consistency is not my game, oh well.

Click to expand...

I'm gonna put words in Ma'ams mouth and those words up there are her answer too *nods smugly*

For me...I used to "care" and really feel like I needed to be aroused to enjoy something. Ma'ams trained that out of me. My arousal is very very low on The Things She Cares About. I'm automatically aroused physically whenever she orders me to do something. I'm constantly wet when interacting with her, even if that interaction is distasteful. She finds this amusing and likes to play with that.

As long as my arousal or lack of it is amusing to her in some way, I'm happy. It wasn't like that instantly for me though, it's taken much of our 4 years together for me to really truly feel that level of pleasure from serving. I rarely think about my own arousal anymore unless Ma'am specifies she wishes me to do so or display it. It's a rather interesting feeling to have my body be that much under her control.

It depends on Master's mood. It's not always important to him.

Sometimes he wants to keep me on the edge for as long as possible, he'll deny me the rougher fucking that he knows I like and take his time before bringing me to a thundering, white hot climax.

Sometimes he'll torture me with it, threatening all manner of nasty things if I cum without permission while doing his best to send me over the edge.

Sometimes he forces me to have lots of smaller orgasms. These are less satisfying for me but more entertaining for him, not to mention a boost to his ego. He'll keep going until I'm begging and pleading with him to leave my hypersensitive ladybits alone.

Then again, sometimes he just wants to fuck. He wants an orifice, nothing more or less. My discomfort and my pleasure are a matter of supreme indifference to him. He'll pin me or beat me into whatever position he wants me in and then just go for it. Usually these encounters don't last too long but on occasion he'll dryfuck me for quite some time. If I'm dry at the start and he causes me enough 'bad' pain to keep me from getting aroused, I'll be completely raw by the time he's finished. This is sometimes a punishment for me but more often it's just his whim.

All these things turn him on and get him off. Our sex life is governed completely by his mood. What I fancy on any given day very rarely enters the equation, unless I've been very good.

It's all the same to me. The biggest turn on for me is pleasing him.

ownedsubgal said:

Domly types...does your submissive partner's sexual arousal really "matter" to you in the grand scheme of things? are you just as satisfied using her/him when they are dry and limp as you are when they are all wet and throbby for you? or perhaps you're MORE interested and stimulated the less physically responsive they are? or do you need to know and feel that they're physically enjoying and needing it all as much as or even more than you do?

subly types...please answer from your perspective.

Click to expand...

well since I am a sub I will Anwser from my point of view, my sexual arousal is always important to him i am pretty sure but i get aroused if i am just thinking about him , He is in my mind so it hard not to be aroused when i think of him. I know he loves for me to worship him and then it is about his pleasure and if i am deriving any form of pleasure from it ( which i do) it is okay... he enjoys controlling my orgasms and making me hold them until he is ready for them to happen. So yeah I think he will say my arousal is important as well..

I think I'm going to attemtp answering from both sides, I'm sure it will end up that way anyway.

From a sub standpoint, my mood usually keeps me in that mindset, it all depends on what's going on. I love pain, haven't come close to a point where i've met my limit...haven't met anyone who has really tested my limits though. The more pain inflicted upon me, the more excited I get, and it's not as though I try to hide that fact so if the pain is taken up a notch then he knows that it's going to get me excited more so I think my level of arousal matters to him in that sense. If I'm required to do something I'm indifferent about or don't prefer, getting completely naked or like BiBunny, I hate being on top, I think the enjoyment is more coming from my squirming and obvious level of feeling awkward and uncomfortable, making his level of arousal the primary importance. I don't think there's been a time, yet anyway, where my enjoyment and arousal has been completely ignored or denied. I can't say that it wouldn't be an interesting experience if that were to happen though.

Since I've only recently tapped into the dom side, I still have a lot of tweaking to do with what works for me and what doesn't. From what I've figured out thusfar though, his arousal really doesn't matter to me much past an indicator as to whether he is enjoying or at least tolerating what I'm doing. In some sense I get off more from knowing that he obviously is liking what I'm doing, more importantly, he likes me doing it(yea yea yea, there's quite a bit of self conscious issues so that matters to me), it doesn't mean though that his arousal or opinion of what he would like to have done is going to happen, let alone rank any importance in what I will end up doing to him. Much like my experience as a sub, I haven't completely cut him off from being aroused, haven't done anything I know he would absolutely not want to have done...I just haven't gotten to that point of experimenting yet.

BiBunny said:

When I'm the dominant partner, I want the sub to be aroused...eventually. I like when the sub is doing something he/she doesn't like to please me. Then, at some point in the course of the action, I like to turn that person's sexuality against him/her to make that person be aroused by something he/she finds extremely painful or disgusting or whatever. I like for the thought process to go from, "No, please don't do that" to "No, please don't stop.

Click to expand...

I fucking LOVE when Ma'am does this. It happens a lot when she is doing edgier things that truly scare me, but somehow, some way she ends up making me want and beg for her to take it further. Like the time she led me downstairs blindfolded, bound me to the rack (big crazy wooden thing with slots and chains and shit that she has) and proceeded to sew my cunt lips together. I was terrified and had no idea what was going on and started out thinking "what is she doing, what is happening, omg when will this end" to "please don't fucking ever stop this damned torture!"

What a mindfuck. Love it, just love it.

I don't think it matters to her either way, since sometimes she wants me to enjoy it and sometimes she doesn't. But I've been having a problem coming lately (since my accident) so even though it's not that I'm not aroused (frequently I am, I just can't get there.) it's a source of frustration to her. She's smart enough about psychology and physiology to know that it's out of my hands right now, but still, it does bother her sometimes that I can't always come. Sometimes it's easy and I can O at the drop of a hat. But lately it's not been.

But that doesn't mean that sometimes she just says "lie down and hold still" and when she's done, she goes back to do her own thing. Ironically enough, I have more spontaneous O's when she does that then when we're working on it. I think it's because I'm just an object to be used so there's no pressure.

For me, there are times when it is important for the simple fact of being a learning opportunity. Others, it isn't important for the same reason. In each instance, my submission is the most important aspect and it is always where I derive the most pleasure. Wet or not if it is commanded, it is acomplished to the upmost of my ability. In the end that willingness eventually makes me wet even if I wasn't in the mood originally.

Originally Posted by BiBunny

//I'm going to *attempt* to answer from both viewpoints, osg, if you don't mind terribly.

When I'm the dominant partner, I want the sub to be aroused...eventually. I like when the sub is doing something he/she doesn't like to please me. Then, at some point in the course of the action, I like to turn that person's sexuality against him/her to make that person be aroused by something he/she finds extremely painful or disgusting or whatever. I like for the thought process to go from, "No, please don't do that" to "No, please don't stop."

As the submissive partner (which is the side I have the most experience with), I haven't been with a dominant yet who didn't want me to receive pleasure in some way. From what I understand from my previous partners, it's quite a boost to the old ego to turn a generally quiet and reserved girl into one who's moaning and writhing and begging and screaming. I think them knowing that they're pushing me outside the bounds of my normal behavior excites them to a particular sadistic glee. For example, I hate being on top during intercourse, always have. I try to avoid it whenever possible. A sadistic partner will put me up there, anyway, and grin at my discomfort, particularly when I start enjoying the sensations in spite of myself.

I'm not sure if that's the kind of answer you were looking for, or if I even answered the question at all. I'm having sort of a mind-body disconnect today. //

[OSG replied]

you answered the question perfectly. i've always been interested in the dynamic you described from the top side, of eventually getting someone to the point where they enjoy and are really aroused by something that previously they disliked, were mentally uncomfy with or just plain hated. it's not something i've ever experienced, but i can just imagine the discomfort and psychological torture of your self-identity being flipped around like that.

i think those are excellent points, BB. turning the bottom's sexuality against them is a potent avenue of subjection and degradation.

OSG, you raise an important point: while the top may neglect the arousal of the bottom, it it open to him or her to exploit in in a way which underscores the bottom's subjection. further the bottom's coming, in degrading circumstances, is indeed a 'psychological torture' or mindfuck. placing the bottom in front of a mirror, to masturbate him- or herself anally with a carrot plays havoc with "identity."

==
a wrinkle that has not been mentioned is the role of the male bottom's *loss* of arousal. the top's agenda being to produce, after initial arousal, impotence, inability to come, etc. no doubt female bottoms too, can lose arousal, but they may not be so vulnerable as the male who sees this sexual capability ebb away under the top's agenda.

Netzach said:

Depends on my whim, really. I sometimes love the presence of it, sometimes love the absence of it.

Consistency is not my game, oh well.

Click to expand...

Hey Netz.

I think that the most important word in the whole thread was when BiBunny said "eventually". Sometimes the point is to get the sub off and sometimes its to leave them hanging and sometimes, fuck it, its all about being on top. But if you look at the big picture, at some point the sub's needs got to be met. Maybe that takes the form of orgasms, maybe its all on the mental plane. But either way its a Doms responsibility to take care of their sub. Otherwise, get one of them Real Dolls.

VelvetDarkness said:

All these things turn him on and get him off. Our sex life is governed completely by his mood. What I fancy on any given day very rarely enters the equation, unless I've been very good.

Click to expand...

this bit pretty much goes for us as well. our sex life is about him and his needs and desires, period. if i happen to be in the mood for the same thing at the same moment (very rare but it has happened) then that's fine, but his buttons just aren't pushed by my sexual arousal. sometimes he wants me to be very interested and eager to serve and be used, but this has nothing to do my being turned on or not. most of the time, he does not really care one way or the other about my arousal or lack thereof, and sometimes he really really just wants me to suffer. but never does he express any particular desire for horny, writhing, orgasmic sub-slut. just plain quiet and obedient sub slut is more his cuppa.

i try to imagine what it would be like to have a Master who was into orgasm control, CoC, or just making a sub go crazy with lust....and i don't think i could handle it. i just don't seem to be wired that way...my horny moments are relatively infrequent and very brief, and i've been conditioned for almost all of my life to believe that my personal sexual feelings are irrelevant, to the point where i no longer have any desire for that sort of expression or release. it seems that most Domly types want that element of control or the ego boost or whatever it is one gets from creating and maintaining a horny subbie at least some of the time....so i think i really lucked out by finding an exception.

ownedsubgal said:

i try to imagine what it would be like to have a Master who was into orgasm control, CoC, or just making a sub go crazy with lust....and i don't think i could handle it. i just don't seem to be wired that way...my horny moments are relatively infrequent and very brief, and i've been conditioned for almost all of my life to believe that my personal sexual feelings are irrelevant, to the point where i no longer have any desire for that sort of expression or release. it seems that most Domly types want that element of control or the ego boost or whatever it is one gets from creating and maintaining a horny subbie at least some of the time....so i think i really lucked out by finding an exception.

Click to expand...

Ma'am does extensive orgasm control with me and at first it was hard, I was more so the writhing desperate type...but more and more I'm finding that until she directly tells me she desires that, my body just...can't react like that anymore. I wonder if that was part of her plan or if it's just an added bonus. It's really been a VERY interesting trip coming to this point, pun not intended.

you need a kinder gentler dom

.....

Yes.

Timing is more important to me. Sometimes I like to control the building up to it and sometimes I just want it spontaneous.

All about the Mood.

If I'm feeling particularly harsh or sadistic, I focus more on pushing more boundries and pushing her to the edge far more often.

If I'm feeling pleased by her efforts, her willingness and her courage during those harsher moments (as well as inbetween) then I will gladly indulge her and make her mind and body feel as much as it can.

If you own the mind, the body always follows. So I'm more into the mindfucking.
The body? It's a nice extra. But I seek to own the mind first. In ways she isn't even aware of at first.
When she's unable to explain to herself why she can't get me out of her head all day/week then I know I'm making the progress I seek.
I endeavor to be "addictive" to one I wish to own. How long I wish to own them depends on them whether they know it or not.

I think it is important, up to a point. Like MzChrista said, if a PYL never takes care of the pyl's sexual needs then it simply isn't gonna work. But I'm of the group that my Dominant's whim is more important at any given moment. Over time, the neglecting can do damage.

I've had both 'types' of PYLs...the one who is rather uninterested in my arousal/orgasm and one who is bordering on obsessive over it. The first simply didn't usually care one way or the other and if I hadn't come from a session I was told to go off and do it myself. (If I get aroused but no orgasm, my ability to orgasm simply disappears. Once we learned that it was a rule to get myself off after sessions for those times he did play with my orgasms.) The other takes great pleasure from turning me into one of those writhing, incoherent sluts who just wants to be fucked.

I actually enjoy both, but I think I wouldn't be able to withstand either one constantly. Actually, scratch that. I've been through having just one type and I don't ever want to choose one over the other. Gimme a mix. Then I might be able to survive it lol

NoLeafClover7 said:

I'm not extremely experienced in D/s, but I can say right now that as a Dom, it does matter to me. It might be fun now and then if she were to want me to use her as I wanted and not worry about her satisfaction, but generally I'd want my partner to be able to enjoy it too. Her being satisfied would make me happy.

Click to expand...

what if she was completely satisfied without ever having to be sexually aroused?