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Building Pleasure through Pain

shy slave

shy slave

Literotica Guru
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Posts
8,255
I have never given out systematic erotic pain, I know what it is like to be on the recieving end.

I have experienced that slow, long build up; and the instant pain from nothing to a cane across the backside.

How does a PYL build up that intensity to give erotic pain/pleasure over a long period of time?

What do you sdue, where do you start and what triggers do you look for as a sign to move on.
When you start with a new toy do you build up the intensity again or go in at an equal level?

My head is full of questions..
 
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Excellent topic shy. I'm looking forward to reading the responses you receive. I would also be interested in reading the input of the pyl's.
 
I love using my hands. If I could deliver all the pain a bottom would ever want/need with just my hands I would do it. If my hands would never become exhausted, they would be all I use.

So I start with my hands. Slow. More exploring then anything else. Light touch. Long strokes. Searching for just that place bottom's body wants touched. Once I find that place that arches out for more attention, that I can almost hear scream "MORE TOUCH" through my hands I start to linger - I stay longer - I begin to focus my attention on that one area. If it is an ass spanking I might start with very tender little "pops" with long pauses between landings at first.

Damn - now I'm all worked up myself. I gota go get a cup of decaff tea before continuing,,,, :kiss:
 
I have a giant closet full of torture toys, but it all works on the same principle. Set it lightly on one, move it slowly up to eleven - although there are people who do NOT operate this way and will simply be bored - tops with breadth of experience have almost all encountered those exceptions.

But the key thing is belief. Belief of the bottom/sub in me, in the power of the scene. There's no erotic magic with an audience sitting back, tapping their feet, telling me that Elsinore is just a shitty cardboard set - you need willingness to believe and engage, trust to engage.
 
Netzach said:
I have a giant closet full of torture toys, but it all works on the same principle. Set it lightly on one, move it slowly up to eleven - although there are people who do NOT operate this way and will simply be bored - tops with breadth of experience have almost all encountered those exceptions.

But the key thing is belief. Belief of the bottom/sub in me, in the power of the scene. There's no erotic magic with an audience sitting back, tapping their feet, telling me that Elsinore is just a shitty cardboard set - you need willingness to believe and engage, trust to engage.
Click to expand...

Isn't that part of the essence of power exchange though? I mean it's more from the bottom side than just placing my hand to my forehead and swooning "Take me". That's too passive in my opinion.

Yet there is nothing to actually "do" because the Dominant does all the doing. A bottom "takes". So bottoms are left doing all they can--they believe. They believe in the Majesty that is wielding that hand or toy.

*shrugs* We do what we can. :cattail:
 
Netzach said:
I have a giant closet full of torture toys, but it all works on the same principle. Set it lightly on one, move it slowly up to eleven - although there are people who do NOT operate this way and will simply be bored - tops with breadth of experience have almost all encountered those exceptions.

But the key thing is belief. Belief of the bottom/sub in me, in the power of the scene. There's no erotic magic with an audience sitting back, tapping their feet, telling me that Elsinore is just a shitty cardboard set - you need willingness to believe and engage, trust to engage.
Click to expand...


Indeed.. *grin* I am amazed sometimes when people act surprised that I have, well.. Three increasing grades of floggers for example..
Though..These days Dominance is becoming less of a "whip and chain" thing for me, and more of a "Tooth and nail" sort of thing.

Don't get me wrong .. I appreciate the artistry of the whips and chains even more now than I used to. Especially the mental aspects thereof.
:devil:
 
Shankara20 said:
I love using my hands. If I could deliver all the pain a bottom would ever want/need with just my hands I would do it. If my hands would never become exhausted, they would be all I use.

So I start with my hands. Slow. More exploring then anything else. Light touch. Long strokes. Searching for just that place bottom's body wants touched. Once I find that place that arches out for more attention, that I can almost hear scream "MORE TOUCH" through my hands I start to linger - I stay longer - I begin to focus my attention on that one area. If it is an ass spanking I might start with very tender little "pops" with long pauses between landings at first.

Damn - now I'm all worked up myself. I gota go get a cup of decaff tea before continuing,,,, :kiss:
Click to expand...
Damn Shank, you almost got me all worked up as well!!

ROFL :D
 
Thank you for explaining this to me. I appreciate it but....
Somehow your answers have only led me to asking more questions....


Shank - Thank you for explaining, can I ask; how do you gauge when to change areas or pressure. If they arch for more do you feel a flinching or shrinking away when they are struggling to cope with that sensation on the one area. If they do, do you think it is an involuntary reaction or they do it so you will move on? In that sense are they controlling you, however subtly?

Netzach - This makes sense to me. You and Caitlynne both say the same, that the pyl has to believe in the PYL and what they are doing. Have you ever played with someone who was simply not in that mind set, yet through play settled into it? I like the 1-11 aspect and the belief that regardless of the toy it is the same principle. I am sure some pyl's fall outside that principle, as there are exceptions to everything.

Life Noir - Can I ask what type of floggers you have. What order do you use them in and how do you make the decision to move onto the next flogger...what happens after number 3 has been used? Also what did you mean by tooth and nail? I have to ask, I have seen some pics in Shanks 'sneak a peek' thread which instantly spring to mind but you may not mean that!
 
shy slave said:
Shank - Thank you for explaining, can I ask; how do you gauge when to change areas or pressure. If they arch for more do you feel a flinching or shrinking away when they are struggling to cope with that sensation on the one area. If they do, do you think it is an involuntary reaction or they do it so you will move on? In that sense are they controlling you, however subtly?
Click to expand...
My mood often is involved in how I respond to bottom's reactions. If I start to loose interest or my mind wanders or if I begin to feel I am not in charge I know I must up ramp it up / made some sort of change.

Once I have started to deliver impacts that I know have some power and bottom is "flinching or shrinking" I tend to feel that bottom is not in "the groove", has not yet started to connect their own pleasure making body/mind stuff - and I need to change things around.

If I'm flogging, for instance, and bottom has started to slip into the groove, I expect to see them "present" - that is to "move into" the place they expect the next impact to land - such as lift the area of the back that will be hit next. I tend to read this "presenting" as the two of us being together in the giving and receiving, and I know we have really just started the pleasure through pain trip.

Are the controlling me? Not at all, I am simply reading them and then making a decision about where I want to go next. For instance, I may withhold a landing after a pattern has been established just to play a little mind fuck and reminded bottom who is in charge - I just love the little giggle that bottom gives when bottom does not get the smack they know is coming when it doen not come and they remember who is in charge.

When I Top I get my ultimate pleasure from seeing the pleasure bottom receives from what I do - from my skill. "Oh-my-god! I did not know I could go there" is the sort of statement that makes me all hard and drippy when I hear it from bottom as they are being un-shackled and lowered to the floor.
 
Shankara20 said:
My mood often is involved in how I respond to bottom's reactions. If I start to loose interest or my mind wanders or if I begin to feel I am not in charge I know I must up ramp it up / made some sort of change.

Once I have started to deliver impacts that I know have some power and bottom is "flinching or shrinking" I tend to feel that bottom is not in "the groove", has not yet started to connect their own pleasure making body/mind stuff - and I need to change things around.

If I'm flogging, for instance, and bottom has started to slip into the groove, I expect to see them "present" - that is to "move into" the place they expect the next impact to land - such as lift the area of the back that will be hit next. I tend to read this "presenting" as the two of us being together in the giving and receiving, and I know we have really just started the pleasure through pain trip.

Are the controlling me? Not at all, I am simply reading them and then making a decision about where I want to go next. For instance, I may withhold a landing after a pattern has been established just to play a little mind fuck and reminded bottom who is in charge - I just love the little giggle that bottom gives when bottom does not get the smack they know is coming when it doen not come and they remember who is in charge.

When I Top I get my ultimate pleasure from seeing the pleasure bottom receives from what I do - from my skill. "Oh-my-god! I did not know I could go there" is the sort of statement that makes me all hard and drippy when I hear it from bottom as they are being un-shackled and lowered to the floor.
Click to expand...


Thank you :kiss:

I am starting to gain a better understanding of this now
 
Shankara20 said:
My mood often is involved in how I respond to bottom's reactions. If I start to loose interest or my mind wanders or if I begin to feel I am not in charge I know I must up ramp it up / made some sort of change.

Once I have started to deliver impacts that I know have some power and bottom is "flinching or shrinking" I tend to feel that bottom is not in "the groove", has not yet started to connect their own pleasure making body/mind stuff - and I need to change things around.

If I'm flogging, for instance, and bottom has started to slip into the groove, I expect to see them "present" - that is to "move into" the place they expect the next impact to land - such as lift the area of the back that will be hit next. I tend to read this "presenting" as the two of us being together in the giving and receiving, and I know we have really just started the pleasure through pain trip.

Are the controlling me? Not at all, I am simply reading them and then making a decision about where I want to go next. For instance, I may withhold a landing after a pattern has been established just to play a little mind fuck and reminded bottom who is in charge - I just love the little giggle that bottom gives when bottom does not get the smack they know is coming when it doen not come and they remember who is in charge.

When I Top I get my ultimate pleasure from seeing the pleasure bottom receives from what I do - from my skill. "Oh-my-god! I did not know I could go there" is the sort of statement that makes me all hard and drippy when I hear it from bottom as they are being un-shackled and lowered to the floor.
Click to expand...


*fans self*

I'm speechless
 
shy slave said:
Netzach - This makes sense to me. You and Caitlynne both say the same, that the pyl has to believe in the PYL and what they are doing. Have you ever played with someone who was simply not in that mind set, yet through play settled into it? I like the 1-11 aspect and the belief that regardless of the toy it is the same principle. I am sure some pyl's fall outside that principle, as there are exceptions to everything.
Click to expand...

I've played with people who claimed to be really interested in force and say they're going to be resistant difficult etc. (which isn't my preference, but as a pro you get to investigate things outside your norm, so why not I figured) It was a bummer - they "difficult" ones were either 1. boring and I never could get anything out of them period - it may be me not them, but I'll never know because they're basically totally non-communicative and not going to be no matter what I might try in an hour and a half or 2. really not at all difficult. The only one I had fun with was one really into the trapped aspect of bondage - I played that as "date gone wrong" but it would have been so much better with five hours and someone I knew and liked and no money.

I got out of the biz when I realized I kept thinking I'd be having so much MORE fun if it was me and them and no money and I'm making the same amount without leaving the house most days. It became about partitioning time/energy.

I think it would be really hot to play with someone who really did need to be seduced and broken down a bit, kind of like it would be really hot to fuck my celebrity crush of choice, not enough that I'm trying to do it and not enough that I don't think it might not be as great in reality as it is thinking about it.

I think the usual order of things, either through teaching or what I like as a halfassed painbottom or laziness or whatever, is deer flogger, bull flogger, cat o nine, lovely plushie rub with a soft toy or deer flogger hugs and kisses kind of thing. There's nothing wrong with this interaction. I still love it as a general road map - I think there's something kind of epic and Joseph Campbell about it that makes it work on a gut level. But it's not the best way for all people and it's not the only way, and it's not even the best way for all beginners - communication will reveal that there are people who should be doing other things entirely. Their pleasure in pain might result from no pleasure at all, just wanting to be ratcheted to where it really sucks and left there till they have to admit it's not in their control - some people don't need want or care about our civilizing, almost mandatory idea of "warm up" and the idea that this should have to be fun in a fun way, not fun in the way running a marathon is fun.
 
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Netzach said:
I've played with people who claimed to be really interested in force and say they're going to be resistant difficult etc. (which isn't my preference, but as a pro you get to investigate things outside your norm, so why not I figured) It was a bummer - they "difficult" ones were either 1. boring and I never could get anything out of them period - it may be me not them, but I'll never know because they're basically totally non-communicative and not going to be no matter what I might try in an hour and a half or 2. really not at all difficult. The only one I had fun with was one really into the trapped aspect of bondage - I played that as "date gone wrong" but it would have been so much better with five hours and someone I knew and liked and no money.

I got out of the biz when I realized I kept thinking I'd be having so much MORE fun if it was me and them and no money and I'm making the same amount without leaving the house most days. It became about partitioning time/energy.

I think it would be really hot to play with someone who really did need to be seduced and broken down a bit, kind of like it would be really hot to fuck my celebrity crush of choice, not enough that I'm trying to do it and not enough that I don't think it might not be as great in reality as it is thinking about it.

I think the usual order of things, either through teaching or what I like as a halfassed painbottom or laziness or whatever, is deer flogger, bull flogger, cat o nine, lovely plushie rub with a soft toy or deer flogger hugs and kisses kind of thing. There's nothing wrong with this interaction. I still love it as a general road map - I think there's something kind of epic and Joseph Campbell about it that makes it work on a gut level. But it's not the best way for all people and it's not the only way, and it's not even the best way for all beginners - communication will reveal that there are people who should be doing other things entirely. Their pleasure in pain might result from no pleasure at all, just wanting to be ratcheted to where it really sucks and left there till they have to admit it's not in their control - some people don't need want or care about our civilizing, almost mandatory idea of "warm up" and the idea that this should have to be fun in a fun way, not fun in the way running a marathon is fun.
Click to expand...

The bold parts are the area I think applies to me.
I don't want pain for my pleasure, but for the person giving its pleasure.

Thank you for pointing out not everyone wants a warm up, fun should be fun for both parties. If warm up is dull and does not hit the buttons I can imagine PYL's getting pretty frustrated that their efforts did not have the desired effect.

I find the comparison you make between when you were a pro and when it was fun interesting.
I briefly (six hours) did phone sex lines. I found it very difficult. Yet phone sex itself is great fun.
I had thought it would be a good way to make money and have fun but I was wrong on both counts.
 
I don't have the time to give a good response now. I'll try to visit later.

The short answer to how I figure out when to ramp up the pain is just intuition. I don't have a checklist of physical responses that tell me to move up in intensity. It just happens when it happens.

More later.
 
shy slave said:
Thank you for explaining this to me. I appreciate it but....
Somehow your answers have only led me to asking more questions....


Life Noir - Can I ask what type of floggers you have. What order do you use them in and how do you make the decision to move onto the next flogger...what happens after number 3 has been used? Also what did you mean by tooth and nail? I have to ask, I have seen some pics in Shanks 'sneak a peek' thread which instantly spring to mind but you may not mean that!
Click to expand...


*lol*

I currently have three in the toybox..At various times I have had more or fewer.. Or different types.. Depending on several things..
I work in leather, wood, and metal, so I tend to make all my own toys.. This has it's advantages and I have gone so far at times as to make a "special" just for a particular pyl.
I tend to not go in for the "classic" flogger style. I.E. The flogger with a braided or wooden handle. Though I have made them for others.. *grin* The version with a natural hickory {suitably sealed} realistic size dildo handle was quite a hit.
*shrug*
I tend to use a "wrap handle" out of simple expediency, as I see them as "using tools" and not display pieces. And as such I like to be able to work on/maintain/replace as necessary.

At the current moment I have {in order of severity}
1: A nylon flogger.. Made from what is essentially heavy grade "masons twine" available at the local DIY store. It is quite nice as a warm up, for use on sensitive areas, and anywhere you don't want to go for a "Deep impact".
It tends to keep most or all of the sensation on the skin surface... Works well on breasts and labia.
Nylon floggers tend to "wear out". {The twine starts to unwind} This softens the feeling, but also causes more tangles.. The advantage is that it's not just effective..It's cheap..SO you can have a brand new one every month if you want.

2: Medium {or light } weight garment leather.. Harder than the nylon of course. Tends to give a "deeper" feeling, and a more profound sensation to the surface skin.
I tend to craft these with usually at least twenty, either 5/8 or 1/2 inch wide tails.. This is one that I also tend to make long enough to do "wrap around" strokes as desired. Some folks tend to castigate the wrap around as a mistake..I personally see it as a quite useful technique..But one which requires a fair amount of practice. With that practice, one can wrap around from the back, and hit desired spots on the front of the pyl {or vice versa}.
A personal favorite is that when the pyl is on hands and kness this one can be used to wrap over and across the bottom to "pop the twat". :p

3: Heavy weight garment leather/bullhide/buffalo hide.. This one's the biggy..
Shorter than #2 generally, also generally with 1/2 inch tails.
Heavy and intense sensation, with a good possibility of marks..
Avoid "sensitive zones" unless you're dealing with either a real "pain slut", or you have worked your way up to it.

All of mine tend to have a 1 1/2 or 2 inch harness ring for a pommel.. This is convenient for a couple of reasons.. One: It keeps your hand from slipping of course. Two: It provides a way to hang the toy up. Which is about the best way to store a flogger. Three: One can attach a snap swivel, or short strap to the ring and use a "figure eight" motion.. {A moulinet to all the fencers out there.}

I use them in the order above.. And the transition *shrug* .. It's based on experience and a host of indicators.. The texture, color, etc of the skin... The way the pyl moves {See Shanks post}, Noise..Even with a gag there is noise..A smart PYL pays attention to it. Look for a drop in the pyl's response, this is a good indicator of the need to "switch up".

If I run through all three.. I may move on to other "striking toys".. Or may anyway *grin*.
I have a rather nice quirt..But damned if that thing doesn't leave a welt.

"Tooth and nail"???
The direct imposition of Dominance through physicality.
I appreciate and love the whole "whips and chains" schtick on a very artistic and control oriented level these days...
WHich is a wordy way of saying I bite..And scratch.. And pull hair, and etc etc etc...
There are times when nothing replaces a good bout of "Klingon sex".

That about cover it????

*grin*
Shall we move on to cutlery and hot wax now?????????
 
Last edited:
floggers

I like to start out with a lite bungee flogger. It's used to warm the skin to a nice redness. It's basically stingy very little impact. Then I move on to a soft leather flogger, deer skin or suede. This has a bit of thud, lite impact and can leave some marks. Now depending on how the subbies reacting I will finally move on to a heavy leather flogger. This one is pure thud, heavy bruising and possibly even small cuts and bleeding. Now the subbie is deep into it. At this point you can go back and forth switching floggers and concentrating on body parts, ass, pussy, tits, cock or whatever. Constantly check in with the subbie and note some go beyond where they are able to tell how they are doing and you must make the judgement call to quit. My wife does this. She will go through ouch to ummm to gone and then start laughing at any kind of stroke. When she reaches that point she's toast, session over and time to cuddle, feed and water her and care for any broken skin.

Enjoy
DomWoolf
 
Last edited:
Life_Noir said:
*lol*

I currently have three in the toybox..At various times I have had more or fewer.. Or different types.. Depending on several things..
I work in leather, wood, and metal, so I tend to make all my own toys.. This has it's advantages and I have gone so far at times as to make a "special" just for a particular pyl.
I tend to not go in for the "classic" flogger style. I.E. The flogger with a braided or wooden handle. Though I have made them for others.. *grin* The version with a natural hickory {suitably sealed} realistic size dildo handle was quite a hit.
*shrug*
I tend to use a "wrap handle" out of simple expediency, as I see them as "using tools" and not display pieces. And as such I like to be able to work on/maintain/replace as necessary.

At the current moment I have {in order of severity}
1: A nylon flogger.. Made from what is essentially heavy grade "masons twine" available at the local DIY store. It is quite nice as a warm up, for use on sensitive areas, and anywhere you don't want to go for a "Deep impact".
It tends to keep most or all of the sensation on the skin surface... Works well on breasts and labia.
Nylon floggers tend to "wear out". {The twine starts to unwind} This softens the feeling, but also causes more tangles.. The advantage is that it's not just effective..It's cheap..SO you can have a brand new one every month if you want.

2: Medium {or light } weight garment leather.. Harder than the nylon of course. Tends to give a "deeper" feeling, and a more profound sensation to the surface skin.
I tend to craft these with usually at least twenty, either 5/8 or 1/2 inch wide tails.. This is one that I also tend to make long enough to do "wrap around" strokes as desired. Some folks tend to castigate the wrap around as a mistake..I personally see it as a quite useful technique..But one which requires a fair amount of practice. With that practice, one can wrap around from the back, and hit desired spots on the front of the pyl {or vice versa}.
A personal favorite is that when the pyl is on hands and kness this one can be used to wrap over and across the bottom to "pop the twat". :p

3: Heavy weight garment leather/bullhide/buffalo hide.. This one's the biggy..
Shorter than #2 generally, also generally with 1/2 inch tails.
Heavy and intense sensation, with a good possibility of marks..
Avoid "sensitive zones" unless you're dealing with either a real "pain slut", or you have worked your way up to it.

All of mine tend to have a 1 1/2 or 2 inch harness ring for a pommel.. This is convenient for a couple of reasons.. One: It keeps your hand from slipping of course. Two: It provides a way to hang the toy up. Which is about the best way to store a flogger. Three: One can attach a snap swivel, or short strap to the ring and use a "figure eight" motion.. {A moulinet to all the fencers out there.}

I use them in the order above.. And the transition *shrug* .. It's based on experience and a host of indicators.. The texture, color, etc of the skin... The way the pyl moves {See Shanks post}, Noise..Even with a gag there is noise..A smart PYL pays attention to it. Look for a drop in the pyl's response, this is a good indicator of the need to "switch up".

If I run through all three.. I may move on to other "striking toys".. Or may anyway *grin*.
I have a rather nice quirt..But damned if that thing doesn't leave a welt.

"Tooth and nail"???
The direct imposition of Dominance through physicality.
I appreciate and love the whole "whips and chains" schtick on a very artistic and control oriented level these days...
WHich is a wordy way of saying I bite..And scratch.. And pull hair, and etc etc etc...
There are times when nothing replaces a good bout of "Klingon sex".

That about cover it????

*grin*
Shall we move on to cutlery and hot wax now?????????
Click to expand...

Ummmm Is it me or is it hot in here?:eek:

Suddenly It seems very very hot, and I feel just a little distracted:eek::eek:

Cutlery.......?:eek:
 
Domwoolf said:
I like to start out with a lite bungee flogger. It's used to warm the skin to a nice redness. It's basically stingy very little impact. Then I move on to a soft leather flogger, deer skin or suede. This has a bit of thud, lite impact and can leave some marks. Now depending on how the subbies reacting I will finally move on to a heavy leather flogger. This one is pure thud, heavy bruising and possibly even small cuts and bleeding. Now the subbie is deep into it. At this point you can go back and forth switching floggers and concentrating on body parts, ass, pussy, tits, cock or whatever. Constantly check in with the subbie and note some go beyond where they are able to tell how they are doing and you must make the judgement call to quit. My wife does this. She will go through ouch to ummm to gone and then start laughing at any kind of stroke. When she reaches that point she's toast, session over and time to cuddle, feed and water her and care for any broken skin.

Enjoy
DomWoolf
Click to expand...

I find those bungee style floggers hell. I would rather have them last than first, they have me wriggling, begging and selling my Soul just for it to stop lol.

Thank you for explaining how you switch back and forth, do you do that between body parts or do you focus in one area before on?

I find it incredibly hard to relax into the pain if it shifts to quickly, yet I know other submissives who cope with that really well.

It always amazes me how people can react so differently to the same stimulus.
 
catalina_francisco said:
LOL, sort of reminds me of my un-kinky and scary incident where chopsticks were called in to perform a very delicate and invasive function in delicate places.:eek:

Catalina:catroar:
Click to expand...

LOL

I have my own horror stories of those and of BBQ tongs :eek:

The things we do.....
 
shy slave said:
Ummmm Is it me or is it hot in here?:eek:

Suddenly It seems very very hot, and I feel just a little distracted:eek::eek:

Cutlery.......?:eek:
Click to expand...

INdeed... Cutlery...

Lessee, there's a short convo between Homburgh and myself {and others} starting here.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=25389299&postcount=13979

Knifeplay is an old favorite of mine...:devil:

P.S. THere are a LOT of interesting things one can do with a couple pair of chopsticks... Especially with the addition of a box of rubber bands..
 
Life_Noir said:
INdeed... Cutlery...

Lessee, there's a short convo between Homburgh and myself {and others} starting here.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=25389299&postcount=13979

Knifeplay is an old favorite of mine...:devil:
Click to expand...

Total agreement. Hottest public scene I've done in a long time was knifeplay on a bottom that had never had it done before. Smokin' hot.

P.S. THere are a LOT of interesting things one can do with a couple pair of chopsticks... Especially with the addition of a box of rubber bands..
Click to expand...

Yup - http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=25468174&postcount=690
 
Life_Noir said:
P.S. THere are a LOT of interesting things one can do with a couple pair of chopsticks... Especially with the addition of a box of rubber bands..
Click to expand...

Unfortunately my experience was not related to those many interesting uses.:eek:

Catalina:catroar:
 
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