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Old 12-28-2007, 12:06 AM   #1
wolfknight20
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a willows sorrow

A Willow's Sorrow

A wind through the willows a heartache too
all because I'm missing you
I used to think I could do no wrong
till I woke up and found you gone

But come what will and come what may
I should have known the price I'd pay

For eight years of heartbreak is too much to bear
even if you act like you don't care
cause for eight years of living with a heart of ice
sooner or later you've got to pay the price

But come what may and come what will
I loved you then and love you still

So please forgive this fool's mistake
my love for you was never fake
but I lost your love to a coward's mistake
my wages of which were pain and heartbreak

So come what's old and come what's new
won't you help stop me from feeling blue

for the loss of a love so true and hard to find
is just about to drive me out of my mind.



all cunstructive comments are welcome good or bad long as there constructive and i know my spellings not the best but if anything eles

Last edited by wolfknight20 : 12-30-2007 at 03:31 AM. Reason: spelling fixs
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:45 PM   #2
unpredictablebijou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfknight20 View Post


all cunstructive comments are welcome good or bad long as there constructive and i know my spellings not the best but if any thing eles
Alright, I have actually come up with a constructive comment. Here it is.

First of all, welcome, and keep writing.

Second of all, I think you'll discover as you participate here, and try to offer comments on the work of others, that offering intelligent critique of someone else's poem is actually pretty hard work. It takes thought and effort to say something helpful and worthwhile about a piece.

I'm happy to offer your poem just as much attention and effort as you have offered it. But not more than that, because why should I value it more than you do, right? So if you don't think your piece is worth the work and effort of, like, fixing all the spelling and working on the rhythm so that it's consistent, like in a song, then what I tend to interpret is that you don't think this piece is worth very much effort.

I'm not saying that this is what you think or mean; I'm just describing how your request comes across to an audience.

The first thing I'd say about this piece is, fix the spelling. You already know that, so I'd just be insulting your intelligence to say that. But I can't really get past that and read the rest of it; it's too distracting. Doesn't help that I taught spelling for 12 years, so it really gets to me...

So I'm in an editorial conundrum, and I'll make you a deal. Fix the spelling and work a little bit on the rhythm so that it's more consistent, and then put it up and I'll try to offer constructive comments, okay?

peace,
bijou
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:59 PM   #3
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I'm stuck on the first line: "A wind thoue the willows a heartachek too"
Thou or through?
Heart attack or heartache?

bijou gave you good advice about fixing the spelling.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:02 AM   #4
wolfknight20
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Cool thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by unpredictablebijou View Post
Alright, I have actually come up with a constructive comment. Here it is.

First of all, welcome, and keep writing.

Second of all, I think you'll discover as you participate here, and try to offer comments on the work of others, that offering intelligent critique of someone else's poem is actually pretty hard work. It takes thought and effort to say something helpful and worthwhile about a piece.

I'm happy to offer your poem just as much attention and effort as you have offered it. But not more than that, because why should I value it more than you do, right? So if you don't think your piece is worth the work and effort of, like, fixing all the spelling and working on the rhythm so that it's consistent, like in a song, then what I tend to interpret is that you don't think this piece is worth very much effort.

I'm not saying that this is what you think or mean; I'm just describing how your request comes across to an audience.

The first thing I'd say about this piece is, fix the spelling. You already know that, so I'd just be insulting your intelligence to say that. But I can't really get past that and read the rest of it; it's too distracting. Doesn't help that I taught spelling for 12 years, so it really gets to me...

So I'm in an editorial conundrum, and I'll make you a deal. Fix the spelling and work a little bit on the rhythm so that it's more consistent, and then put it up and I'll try to offer constructive comments, okay?

peace,
bijou
thank you for the welcom and the constructive comments its not that i dont care with the spilling ive the learning type of add and spelling and math are the two areas where it hits me the hardest it took me two mounths to work on this one and another two for i got it to where i liked it
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedEve View Post
I'm stuck on the first line: "A wind thoue the willows a heartachek too"
Thou or through?
Heart attack or heartache?

bijou gave you good advice about fixing the spelling.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.
thank you for the welcome as well it is soposed to been through as in passing through and heartache
now ill edit and fix those two problems gladly
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:14 AM   #5
wolfknight20
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Cool

i also have one other poem in the form its called angles tears
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Old 12-29-2007, 02:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfknight20 View Post
all cunstructive comments are welcome good or bad long as there constructive and i know my spellings not the best but if any thing eles
Constructive? What about you?
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfknight20 View Post
i also have one other poem in the form its called angles tears
angel's tears?

Fixing typos will probably be the easiest part of an edit. It's a good place to start.
Good luck with your poems.
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:31 AM   #8
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You've had some learning difficulties in the past, have you thought about returning to school and upgrading your English? Now that you're interested in developing your composition and comprehension skills I'm thinking sitting through hours of vocabulary and grammar lessons would be easier. You may have ADD and other issues, but time and desire have ways of removing the roadblocks to formal education you couldn't get past as a kid.

It's not just your spelling that's at fault, here, you see? English is a difficult language because there are many words that sound the same but are spelled differently. Look at the word brake, a noun and a verb describing a device (most commonly on a car) to slow or stop movement and a way of stopping. As you can see, nowhere does it provide a meaning of fracture or splitting like you want to use, that's because it's the wrong word; break is the one you should be using in your poem.

As to the other errors in spelling, you can download a spellcheck program from Google that will run through your online forms and grab any obvious typos. It won't fix problems like I've describe above, because you haven't misspelled the word, you're simply using the wrong one.

Good luck and I hope you keep working on your writing. It's not going to be easy for you, but if you really want to chase a dream of making beautiful words, then the learning will be easier.
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Last edited by champagne1982 : 12-29-2007 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne1982 View Post
You've had some learning difficulties in the past, have you thought about returning to school and upgrading your English?
You know this person? I didn't realize there were problems. I thought maybe English wasn't his/her first language.
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:56 AM   #10
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This one time only I'll go through your two poems to show you the misspellings. On the first poem I'll mark in red those errors and provide you with a corrected version with which you can compare. On the second poem I'll only mark the mistakes. I'll leave it up to you to make the corrections. From what I've seen I'm sure you can express yourself well enough but stumble seriously with the written word because of numerous misspellings. And many of those misspellings won't be solved with a spellcheck program — bear and bare are both spelled correctly but which one has the correct meaning? Only a dictionary can tell you that. Also, I'm not looking at your punctuation {commas, colons, semicolons, or periods}.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfknight20 View Post

a willows sorrow

A wind through the willows a heartache too
all becaus im missing you
I used to think i could do no wrong
till I woke up and found you gone

But come what will and come what may
I should/ known the price id pay

For eight years of heartbrake is too much to bare
even if you act like you dont care
cause for eight years of living with a heart of ice
sooner or later you gota pay the price

But come what may and come what will
i loved you than and love you still

So pleaze forgive this fools mistake
my love for you was never fake
but i lost your love to a cowards mistake
my wages of wich where pain and heartbrake

So come whats old and come whats new
wont you help stop me from feeling blue

for the loss of a love so true and hard to find
is just about to drive me out of my mind.




all cunstructive comments are welcome good or bad long as there constructive and i know my spellings not the best but if any thing eles

A Willow's Sorrow

A wind through the willows a heartache too
all because I'm missing you
I used to think I could do no wrong
till I woke up and found you gone

But come what will and come what may
I should have known the price I'd pay

For eight years of heartbreak is too much to bear
even if you act like you don't care
cause for eight years of living with a heart of ice
sooner or later you've got to pay the price

But come what may and come what will
I loved you then and love you still

So please forgive this fool's mistake
my love for you was never fake
but I lost your love to a coward's mistake
my wages of which were pain and heartbreak

So come what's old and come what's new
won't you help stop me from feeling blue

for the loss of a love so true and hard to find
is just about to drive me out of my mind.


EDITED TO ADD: I see where you said you spent some time writing this to get it right, so that it says what you want it to say. But getting the spelling right may be an equally difficult challenge to overcome; I think you've got the intelligence to overcome your spelling difficulties — it will just take time and hard work.


.
.
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Last edited by LeBroz : 12-29-2007 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 12-29-2007, 08:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedEve View Post
You know this person? I didn't realize there were problems. I thought maybe English wasn't his/her first language.
He mentioned his ADD and other issues in his reply to upbj's post. I just inferred that this is what's going on.
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne1982 View Post
He mentioned his ADD and other issues in his reply to upbj's post. I just inferred that this is what's going on.
Oh, I didn't see that. Well, the advice you gave him is good. My daughter has ADHD (and other problems) and it does take extra effort when learning, but it can be done.
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Old 12-29-2007, 04:28 PM   #13
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We all work with certain disabilities, but I've seen great improvement in language in cases of people with ADD and dyslexia and such, just through an absolute slavish dedication to fixing errors, over and over again.

My first husband was dyslexic and claimed that he would never have better spelling skills than he had when I met him. I am an English teacher and therefore I spent a lot of time with him going through his papers as he struggled through the first couple of years of college. Within a very short while his skills improved, and over the years he "lost" his dyslexia; that is, he simply re-learned, through serious dedication, to do things correctly. Part of the problem was that he had simply been allowing himself to develop bad habits. By the time he graduated, his skills were as solid as mine.

I understand that not all learning disabilities are the same and I would never assert that these things aren't a disability in the sense that one has to work much harder than other people to learn these skills. But this is an attempt at a hopeful message: if you're seriously dedicated, and willing to work very hard, your skills WILL improve and these things will come more easily over time.

If you are serious about poetry and writing, that's going to be an important part of the work involved for you. We all have our disabilities to overcome.

kudos, by the way, to LeBroz for doing the detail work on this piece. Now it's time for you to find others to do the same thing, and to start really being diligent about undoing the old habits and replacing them with new ones.

Good luck to you,

bijou
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Bienvenue a la bistro!


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Old 12-31-2007, 01:16 AM   #14
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Cool thank you bijou

Quote:
Originally Posted by unpredictablebijou View Post
We all work with certain disabilities, but I've seen great improvement in language in cases of people with ADD and dyslexia and such, just through an absolute slavish dedication to fixing errors, over and over again.

My first husband was dyslexic and claimed that he would never have better spelling skills than he had when I met him. I am an English teacher and therefore I spent a lot of time with him going through his papers as he struggled through the first couple of years of college. Within a very short while his skills improved, and over the years he "lost" his dyslexia; that is, he simply re-learned, through serious dedication, to do things correctly. Part of the problem was that he had simply been allowing himself to develop bad habits. By the time he graduated, his skills were as solid as mine.

I understand that not all learning disabilities are the same and I would never assert that these things aren't a disability in the sense that one has to work much harder than other people to learn these skills. But this is an attempt at a hopeful message: if you're seriously dedicated, and willing to work very hard, your skills WILL improve and these things will come more easily over time.

If you are serious about poetry and writing, that's going to be an important part of the work involved for you. We all have our disabilities to overcome.

kudos, by the way, to LeBroz for doing the detail work on this piece. Now it's time for you to find others to do the same thing, and to start really being diligent about undoing the old habits and replacing them with new ones.

Good luck to you,

bijou
I am working on it my shewolf is helping me to over come some of my diffacultys shes my muse the one i write about been with her for ten years long distance romance her in texas me in iowa
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:28 PM   #15
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Any Thoughts

A Willow's Sorrow

A wind through the willows a heartache too
all because I'm missing you
I used to think I could do no wrong
till I woke up and found you gone

But come what will and come what may
I should have known the price I'd pay

For eight years of heartbreak is too much to bear
even if you act like you don't care
cause for eight years of living with a heart of ice
sooner or later you've got to pay the price

But come what may and come what will
I loved you then and love you still

So please forgive this fool's mistake
my love for you was never fake
but I lost your love to a coward's mistake
my wages of which were pain and heartbreak

So come what's old and come what's new
won't you help stop me from feeling blue

for the loss of a love so true and hard to find
is just about to drive me out of my mind.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:52 AM   #16
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Beautiful.
Wonderfully written and stated.
I appriciate all of the written word I have read by your hand.
You are most talented and appriciated in my eyes.
(Lady Auroarah)
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:52 AM   #17
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I don't know if you're still accepting criticism of your poem, or if English is your second language. Anyway, when you force end rhyme or syllable stress you end up in that nursery rhyme/greeting card type of poetry. If you write what you want to in prose, blank verse etc. then you can say what you want in a clearer and more developed voice. You'll have a broader frame, instead of trying to write a line that ends with whatever the ending of the last line was.

Poetry is the developed expression of the English language, so if you're trying to write poetry in a language that's not native to you, then I applaud your efforts. It's easier if you've written poems in your native language, because the sense of meter is universal. You shouldn't be dissuaded from writing in meter and rhyme just because it's not that popular, but you should study it in a serious way.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfknight20 View Post
A Willow's Sorrow

A wind through the willows a heartache too
all because I'm missing you
I used to think I could do no wrong
till I woke up and found you gone

But come what will and come what may
I should have known the price I'd pay

For eight years of heartbreak is too much to bear
even if you act like you don't care
cause for eight years of living with a heart of ice
sooner or later you've got to pay the price

But come what may and come what will
I loved you then and love you still

So please forgive this fool's mistake
my love for you was never fake
but I lost your love to a coward's mistake
my wages of which were pain and heartbreak

So come what's old and come what's new
won't you help stop me from feeling blue

for the loss of a love so true and hard to find
is just about to drive me out of my mind.
You worked on this a long time and I congratulate you for getting it into as good shape as you have. I know it took a lot of effort on your part.

That said, I basically agree with bflagsst that I prefer (most poetry lovers prefer) poems that don't have a very simple rhyme scheme. To me, a poem that rhymes the first with second line and then the third with fourth line and so on sounds too singsongy. There are others who do appreciate this kind of poetry and really what is always most important is that you like it. If you're happy with where it is that's really all that matters. If you want to take it to the next step, you might think about how you can say the same thing without rhyming so much or so obviously.

The other thing you may want to consider are the concepts of metaphor and imagery. Poems that imo are really good use these well. A metaphor is saying something is something else that provides an image to suggest the thing you want. For example, if I say:

The sun is butter.

Obviously the sun isn't really butter lol, but when you look up in the sky sometimes the sun looks blurry and yellow and melty. Like butter. So the metaphor gives you the image of what the sun looks like by substituting another image that keeps you (the poet) from having to say "the sun looks blurry and yellow and melty." You have one metaphor in your poem ("heart of ice"), and though it's sort of overused in poetry (or cliched), it does work better that using a lot of words to describe how you feel. I think the more you can do that in poetry, the better. Sometimes it's good to be very clear, but mostly it's better to let images do the work for you. After all, poetry works best when it allows a reader's imagination to be inspired by the poet's words.

This is all just food for thought and again I am impressed with how you kept at it and improved your poem from what you originally wrote. Nice job.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:48 PM   #19
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thanks for the thoughts and English is my home language but i like the old bardic stile and most my poems are songs so saying there singsong is a compliment there meant to be kind of bluesy
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:02 PM   #20
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Post Bah!

I think it sucks when others don't understand the concept of ones feelings written in to words. IT's like fine art. It was made to express the person, not to impress the public.
Those who like it do, those who don't, won't, and other are critical because they can not understand.
And those who are bent on correction of puncuation and grammer, well, !
I say it is beautiful and you keep writing the way you feel my friend!
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinsiousSiren View Post
I think it sucks when others don't understand the concept of ones feelings written in to words. IT's like fine art. It was made to express the person, not to impress the public.
Those who like it do, those who don't, won't, and other are critical because they can not understand.
And those who are bent on correction of puncuation and grammer, well, !
I say it is beautiful and you keep writing the way you feel my friend!
Sin
wolfknight invited constructive critical critique on his poem when he first posted it over a year ago. Where's your constructive praise?
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:44 AM   #22
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I was simply stating that critique is one thing, to point out the fact that one thinks the language used is not english or flaws in puncuation is rude.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
[...] if I say:

The sun is butter.
then you mean: The sun melts butter

(I am prone to typos too).

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Old 01-08-2009, 08:01 AM   #24
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I don't think she does..... maybe *the sun is butter melting in the sky* but to put *the sun melts butter* doesn't even bring up the impression of the sun being in the sky at all it just makes me at anyrate think of the sun melting it in a dish
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:12 AM   #25
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actually senna its a metaphor she meant the sun looked like butter and as for sirens critique goes she did in her first post here but she liked it and as such didn't have much to say
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