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Ownership

Bandit58

Bandit58

Sir's wonder woman
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Posts
8,121
A thought raised by a post in another thread, but I didn't want to hijack it again:

I have a problem with the concept of "ownership". I'm not a slave, so therefore I don't consider myself to be owned. The word has associations to me of possessiveness and jealousy which I have lived with in my first (vanilla) marriage....so to me it's not a good thing.

However I'm aware that other pyls find much joy in being considered owned by their PYL. I'm interested in your take on the concept - who knows maybe you could change my mind on this issue :)
 
I'm going to hijack this thread now and get it over with, ok?

I just read that Master Gil is going through some tough times and I wanted you to know that my prayers are with you both.

Nice people shouldn't have such tribulations... :heart:

On topic:
I have no comments that would make a difference. ;-)
 
I am not a slave, I'm a submissive but I do consider myself owned. It was something he insisted on from the beginning. It took me a little while to really comprehend exactly how he defined the word and his expectations for me.

I enjoy his intense possesiveness. Also his pride in ownership. As we see it--when a person owns something they take care or it, watch over it, protect it. Much more then if he was "renting" it. Before I was owned my husband and I were a little into the wifesharing lifestyle. After I met my Dom he said that would have to stop. He owned my body and I couldn't share or give away what I no longer owned.

It brings much joy to me to know that I am his possesion.
 
i think, for most in the scene, the world is thrown around as a "cool kids" thing.

but in reality, he fucks up too much and you are free to choose to leave.
and often they do.
he cheats, he lies, he abuses, he neglects, he stops acting dom and asks you to spank him, he turns out to be a pedo or serial killer, you walk away.

that's not really "owned" is it? it's really "on long term loan"...but that doesn't sound cool at all.
 
Quint said:
I heart dolf. And all her 2000 parts.

I consider us reciprocally owned, in the "I am my beloved's, and my beloved is mine" sort of way. Jealousy doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm not locked away in a glass box where others can't touch me. I'm more like a nice sporty car that he lets people drive when the whim strikes him. Sure, you can read the terms and conditions in fine print at the bottom, but for the foreseeable future, yeah we're pretty possessed.
Click to expand...

Can I borrow the keys sometime?
 
It's interesting- I have only once embraced the idea of being a slave, and that was a situation that began as submission, and grew into something alien to me- slavery- and it was beautiful. Heart-wrenchingly beautiful. Yet he never imposed ownership on me, he never imposed slavery on me... I simply gave myself to him, and that was it.

I cannot get to the mindspace of slavery very easily. I'm too willful, I'm too sarcastic, and I'm utterly too pragmatic for it, in my own life. However, I do still very much love the idea of ownership. I want to belong to someone. I want someone to mark me and claim me as his own. I cannot be a slave, but I am a very dedicated, loving, eager-to-please submissive, who happens to have a heck of a mouth on her (in that I talk back, am sarcastic, and generally earn my punishments). I have only positive feelings towards ownership in a D/s situation... but then I don't have the past to colour me differently.
 
ecstaticsub said:
I am not a slave, I'm a submissive but I do consider myself owned. It was something he insisted on from the beginning. It took me a little while to really comprehend exactly how he defined the word and his expectations for me.

I enjoy his intense possesiveness. Also his pride in ownership. As we see it--when a person owns something they take care or it, watch over it, protect it. Much more then if he was "renting" it. Before I was owned my husband and I were a little into the wifesharing lifestyle. After I met my Dom he said that would have to stop. He owned my body and I couldn't share or give away what I no longer owned.

It brings much joy to me to know that I am his possesion.
Click to expand...

I like this explaination. I want this for myself.
 
I've never been able to reconcile "I am in love with you" and "I own you, you are my slave."

I'm crazy about H, H is a confidant and friend, H is someone I want in my life, but I am not in love with him. It's completely incompatible with owning him, to me.

Likewise I could never own M. Being in love with someone removes that degree of powerlessness they have with me, if we're being honest about it.
 
When I was RH's sub, I never considered myself a slave and he didn't treat me that way. I was his owned submissive and felt very prized. He told me on many an occasion that it was his job to care for and protect me and he did in many ways.

I knew that even being married, I belonged to RH and that meant he owned my body as well as my mind and I never questioned it...reveled in it as a matter of fact because it was very natural to be owned by him.
 
Netzach said:
I've never been able to reconcile "I am in love with you" and "I own you, you are my slave."
Click to expand...

There is a difference, to me, between "I love you" and "I am in love with you".

I think it's that difference that allows ownership within BDSM. While I very much love whatever Dominant I am with, I am not always IN love with that Dominant... but LOVE is necessary for MY D/s experience. I have been IN love with a few Doms in my time.

Ownership, for me, as I said, usually doesn't involve me being a slave... I consider being owned, as a submissive, as something like the following:

"You are a beautiful diamond. You have gifted yourself to me. I own you- let me place you in this gold ring on my finger, and let others admire you, set in my ring"

Something like that- it is beautiful, it is a very positive thing...
 
LittleJade said:
There is a difference, to me, between "I love you" and "I am in love with you".

I think it's that difference that allows ownership within BDSM. While I very much love whatever Dominant I am with, I am not always IN love with that Dominant... but LOVE is necessary for MY D/s experience. I have been IN love with a few Doms in my time.

Ownership, for me, as I said, usually doesn't involve me being a slave... I consider being owned, as a submissive, as something like the following:

"You are a beautiful diamond. You have gifted yourself to me. I own you- let me place you in this gold ring on my finger, and let others admire you, set in my ring"

Something like that- it is beautiful, it is a very positive thing...
Click to expand...

I love my slave. Just hearing his voice makes my day often. But if I were to be *in* love with him, I could no longer see him as property. "In love" has too much chaos in it, when someone's in love they're a slave to that emotion.

I'm shameless about the fact that my dominance with my husband is a seventy eighty percentile natural tendencies thing, and that at times he gets away with total murder like no one else could with me. Because I'm madly in love with him.
 
I am not just some wannabe slave who talks the talk.... I walk the walk. I stand by who I am and what I promised IYM when I agreed to serve Him at this level. I'm wired in that fashion both in or out of this relationship. I'm loyal. My word is valuable, and I don't make promises with a plan to break them. [ And it is NOT always fun.. and there have been times when I have wanted to be anywhere else than here...... and I am far too loyal to ever leave, and so am greatful that we always manage to work things out ...... and I am expressing this here because I am hell bent on 'keeping it real' and in order to dispell the myths that some will portray of this type of relationship being easy or perfect at all times... or of all slaves having to be 100% obedient to be *true slaves* :rolleyes: ] --And if I wake tomorrow and He is suddenly a changed person and changed to any degree... I will be here to serve Him for as long as He wants me to. I will only seperate from this relationship by release or by death.

Being owned certainly brings feelings of possessiveness and jealousy to the table at times. When it has brought those feelings our way, we dealt with them just as we do any other issue which may arise in our relationship. We talk. We communicate. ALOT. Often.. We do not stop until we both are feeling 'ok' with each other, ourselves, and the relationship.. again.

We understand better than anyone else that this relationship is not for everyone. We are told so by others, often. Likewise, on the flip side of the coin, we often find ourselves looking at the relationship of others and commenting between ourselves things like, "THAT wouldn't work for us.", and "That's so far from where we are." and sometimes, "Eww.. fuck that shit". Then we stop and remember that what works for others may not be for us, and we reflect on how lucky they are to have found SOMETHING out there that DOES work 'for them'.

In June of '04 I searched for a man with whom I could share exactly this type of relationship. It's what I decided I wanted. So many search for so long and never get what they want and need. WHY would I WANT to leave ? I have found the 'it' that so many only hope to find. I have found my ideal 'happily ever after'. :)

This type of relationship is right for us, and it requires work sometimes, just like any other... and I wouldn't care to be in any other type of relationship with Him. :rose:

P.S. TO answer Bandit's question posed by this thread: The joy that I get in being owned by my PYL is no different than most other pyls and who do not view themselves as owned: I enjoy pleasing Him. I enjoy knowing that *I* please Him by being who and what He requires and expects in a relationship.


GREAT topic for discussion Bandit. I hope you and Gil are doing well.. and on the road toward feeling much better. :rose:
 
Last edited:
When I first read about ownership, my first thoughts were: who would want to become a property and to be owned by someone who would have total control over that person? (this was at the beginning of my journey!)

However, as I got further on my journey, I began to realise that ownership means different things to different people. I began to realise that ownership can be a beautiful thing and can show the love and the commitment between two people (a bit like collaring and marriage)

ecstaticsub said:
when a person owns something they take care or it, watch over it, protect it.
Click to expand...

I like how ecastaicsub describes ownership and I quite agree with what she said about someone owning a thing and watching over it; protect it and taking care of it. That's how I would want to be "taken" by a Dom, for him to protect me, to take care of me and watching over me. However, I do not think I would want his total control over me, even though I do desire to be OWNED by a Dom, I still want to be independent in some other areas.

I believe that you can be OWNED without total power exchange in a relationship, just well as you can be owned with total power exchange in a relationship.

I hope that makes sense?

Finally I would like to end with ecastaicsub quote in her post:

ecastaicsub said:
It brings much joy to me to know that I am his possesion.
Click to expand...

That is what I would feel, if I was to be owned by someone! :D
 
dolf said:
i think, for most in the scene, the world is thrown around as a "cool kids" thing.

but in reality, he fucks up too much and you are free to choose to leave.
and often they do.
he cheats, he lies, he abuses, he neglects, he stops acting dom and asks you to spank him, he turns out to be a pedo or serial killer, you walk away.

that's not really "owned" is it? it's really "on long term loan"...but that doesn't sound cool at all.
Click to expand...

I lease my subs now...that way you can write them off and get a new one whenever you want.
 
Lancecastor said:
I lease my subs now...that way you can write them off and get a new one whenever you want.
Click to expand...

Are there tax benefits to that as well?
 
Netzach said:
I've never been able to reconcile "I am in love with you" and "I own you, you are my slave."

I'm crazy about H, H is a confidant and friend, H is someone I want in my life, but I am not in love with him. It's completely incompatible with owning him, to me.

Likewise I could never own M. Being in love with someone removes that degree of powerlessness they have with me, if we're being honest about it.
Click to expand...

I agree. I wouldn't be able to draw the line between when we were partners/lovers and when we were not. It would be too much like roleplaying for me.

That being said, D and I are crazy about each other, love each other, are sexual in a D/s sense, and are very good friends. I never have been and never will be her "partner" though.
 
dolf said:
i think, for most in the scene, the world is thrown around as a "cool kids" thing.

but in reality, he fucks up too much and you are free to choose to leave.
and often they do.
he cheats, he lies, he abuses, he neglects, he stops acting dom and asks you to spank him, he turns out to be a pedo or serial killer, you walk away.

that's not really "owned" is it? it's really "on long term loan"...but that doesn't sound cool at all.
Click to expand...
i gotta agree with this post. for my part, in my more dreamy romantic moods i'm owned. i feel owned, but the reality is, i'm not. within the confines of our relationship it's his way or the highway. but if he suddenly decided we were gonna kill the next door neighbor, i'd call the cops on him.
 
serijules said:
I agree. I wouldn't be able to draw the line between when we were partners/lovers and when we were not. It would be too much like roleplaying for me.

That being said, D and I are crazy about each other, love each other, are sexual in a D/s sense, and are very good friends. I never have been and never will be her "partner" though.
Click to expand...

I'll even bet cash that if that line ever gets blurry you'd feel queasy about it. I know that's true for us.
 
I know that with some people that 'owned' is very much true, but I agree with dolf. With most bdsm-ers it's a 'cool kid' thing. Saying you 'own' someone gives you a feeling of control where there is none. *shrugs* But then, I'm a sub - not a slave. K fucks up enough and I'm gone.
 
Lancecastor said:
I lease my subs now...that way you can write them off and get a new one whenever you want.
Click to expand...
y're such a bastard.

i hope they make you put down a deposit.
 
lux221 said:
i gotta agree with this post. for my part, in my more dreamy romantic moods i'm owned. i feel owned, but the reality is, i'm not. within the confines of our relationship it's his way or the highway. but if he suddenly decided we were gonna kill the next door neighbor, i'd call the cops on him.
Click to expand...
yup.

99.9% of owned slaves, if they found out their master was a pedo and had a kiddy, ready to be abused and murdered, hidden in the spare room? i'm thinking they'd not think twice about turning him in and walking away.
 
sinn0cent1 said:
I am not just some wannabe slave who talks the talk.... I walk the walk. I stand by who I am and what I promised IYM when I agreed to serve Him at this level. I'm wired in that fashion both in or out of this relationship. I'm loyal. My word is valuable, and I don't make promises with a plan to break them. [ And it is NOT always fun.. and there have been times when I have wanted to be anywhere else than here...... and I am far too loyal to ever leave, and so am greatful that we always manage to work things out ...... and I am expressing this here because I am hell bent on 'keeping it real' and in order to dispell the myths that some will portray of this type of relationship being easy or perfect at all times... or of all slaves having to be 100% obedient to be *true slaves* :rolleyes: ] --And if I wake tomorrow and He is suddenly a changed person and changed to any degree... I will be here to serve Him for as long as He wants me to. I will only seperate from this relationship by release or by death.

Being owned certainly brings feelings of possessiveness and jealousy to the table at times. When it has brought those feelings our way, we dealt with them just as we do any other issue which may arise in our relationship. We talk. We communicate. ALOT. Often.. We do not stop until we both are feeling 'ok' with each other, ourselves, and the relationship.. again.

We understand better than anyone else that this relationship is not for everyone. We are told so by others, often. Likewise, on the flip side of the coin, we often find ourselves looking at the relationship of others and commenting between ourselves things like, "THAT wouldn't work for us.", and "That's so far from where we are." and sometimes, "Eww.. fuck that shit". Then we stop and remember that what works for others may not be for us, and we reflect on how lucky they are to have found SOMETHING out there that DOES work 'for them'.

In June of '04 I searched for a man with whom I could share exactly this type of relationship. It's what I decided I wanted. So many search for so long and never get what they want and need. WHY would I WANT to leave ? I have found the 'it' that so many only hope to find. I have found my ideal 'happily ever after'. :)

This type of relationship is right for us, and it requires work sometimes, just like any other... and I wouldn't care to be in any other type of relationship with Him. :rose:

P.S. TO answer Bandit's question posed by this thread: The joy that I get in being owned by my PYL is no different than most other pyls and who do not view themselves as owned: I enjoy pleasing Him. I enjoy knowing that *I* please Him by being who and what He requires and expects in a relationship.


GREAT topic for discussion Bandit. I hope you and Gil are doing well.. and on the road toward feeling much better. :rose:
Click to expand...

Sinn...WOW...I couldn't have said any of this better myself...*kisses*
 
NALA CAYENNE said:
When I was RH's sub, I never considered myself a slave and he didn't treat me that way. I was his owned submissive and felt very prized. He told me on many an occasion that it was his job to care for and protect me and he did in many ways.

I knew that even being married, I belonged to RH and that meant he owned my body as well as my mind and I never questioned it...reveled in it as a matter of fact because it was very natural to be owned by him.
Click to expand...

Very well said.. :)
 
graceanne said:
I know that with some people that 'owned' is very much true, but I agree with dolf. With most bdsm-ers it's a 'cool kid' thing. Saying you 'own' someone gives you a feeling of control where there is none. *shrugs* But then, I'm a sub - not a slave. K fucks up enough and I'm gone.
Click to expand...
It is illegal to own a human as property in 21st century America. The phrase is used metaphorically in a variety of ways, but in *no* case is ownership an actual fact.

Bandit58 said:
I have a problem with the concept of "ownership".
Click to expand...
You are not alone in this regard. Many D/s practitioners are uncomfortable with the concept, as presented in its various forms.

The metaphor that I find least appealing is the one in which "owned property" is used as a symbolic reference to "someone who promised to serve, honor, and obey for the rest of her life or until released, no matter what." I value commitment very, very highly, but I value commitment that is borne of free will. Not just free will exercised weeks, months, or years prior, but free will exercised in the moment, every moment, for the duration of our time together.

The only version of the ownership concept that really appeals to me is a mutual one, used to indicate that we belong with & to one another. A more complete description of this version of the concept may be found here.
 
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