Objectification/Humiliation

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by dolf

the humiliation thing turns me off.
more than that, it makes me angry.
in a "relationship over" way...possibly in a *crush your nuts on my way out* way too.

and the men who crave it? i'm not talking about those who dig it if it turns their sub on, i'm talking about those that crave it like nothing else...i can't begin to express the distaste i feel.

it's the one kink where i get really opinionated.

Is it ok that I require the opportunity to smash the ego of at least one well-fed white male at any given time? Or will you no longer hump my leg over that?

I'll be crushed, but I really like it.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by RonClarkeson

The problem is that Humiliation does not work if it has already been discussed!
Boundaries should be established. Boundaries should be pushed but in such a way that the Sub FEELs before during and after that the coice was his/hers.

I beg to differ.

my slave and I discuss plot execute and savor the post-game replays.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by CutieMouse

Yay! I'm sorry I got bogged down, Rose. I did want to discuss ridicule versus humiliation, because it's one of those intersting twisty bits to me.

I've noticed several put the disclaimer of "but not doing ___" (making fun of my weight, intelligence, etc) on their interest in humiliation. I catagorize those sorts of comments into the ridicule box. I think Netz said she can go there and it be hot, but it seems for most it's a no-go.

It makes me wonder if my brain just processes things that differently, because being made fun of for my flaws, doesn't even enter the same building as what I define as humiliation play...

I'm thinking about what allows me to go where.

For something to either bother me, or work for me, there has to be an element of "not true" - if it bugs me, it feels like someone is trying to goad me into a place I'm not really into, if it makes me hot, it means they're transforming me into something so wildly improbable that it feels new and weird and like an escape from my usual self.

Turning me into a puppy is embarrassing, but quite comfortably "not true" and a way that refutes my intellect.

Going the "slut, bitch, whore" route is not true, and strikes me as so trite and so stupid that I'd even lose a bit of respect for my Bull over it. I'm sure he could find SOME way to make it work if he wanted to, but he also feels the "slut" designation is kind of stupid and ill-fitting for me. So we're just on the same page. Certain things which would make most people hot will totally turn me off, and certain things which will make very few people hot will totally turn me on.

I think the issue is that simply by dint of having a cunt, I've had to field being assumed to be bitch, whore, cunt -- whatev. It's kind of the place that makes me go "you're a dumbass" mentally. Nobody assumes me to be a dog or a pony or a human glory hole or an ottoman - so those work better for me, the top who insists on those has my attention via "OK, you're thinking outside the obvious box"

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by RonClarkeson

You are on the balcony on the 23rd floor of a new york hotel and your dom demand you strip off and suck his cock in full view of the world like athe slut you are!
You smack him in the gob and end of relationship!
Do I need to describe the same situation where you respond?

If he phrased it like that I'd wonder what they did with his brain.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by A Desert Rose

Yes.

Ridicule is cruel and abusive. I don't take well to being ridiculed. (Not to be confused with teasing, which is an entirely different subject, too.) Ridicule would be an end all to a relationship.

When you are told to get on your knees, scratch under your arms and make monkey sounds... that's ridicule and it was a deal breaker for me. I think my words as I walked out the door were "Go back to Dom school, you stupid fuckhead."

What humiliates me, for someone else might be nothing at all. And no one really cares what humiliates me so I won't go into that. But I like humiliation and degradation and they have nothing in common with ridicule.

See and my dealbreaker would be something like "put on this cheap teddy and we're going to the playparty and you're going to giggle and wiggle and act like a bimbo slut with the other perfectly smart middle aged gals breaking out of vanilla marriages doing the same"

I'd be outta there. Or flinging poo.

Some people's idea of a great time and a wonderful expression of their "real" sexuality is my nightmare and dealbreaker.

Not that making monkey noises isn't obviously, really a stretch and really uncomfortable for me - but that's also part of it. If any part of me is thinking "well, why?" or "is my sexual hunger for you something you want me to be ashamed of?" or "is this supposed to be embarrassing?" then I get into the downward spiral of losing respect for the top. My bull can get away with a lot of this slightly blush inducing sexual stuff, but he keeps it in good taste and therefore not what I'd consider really humiliating, more a light objectification and a flattering one (the "you are my trophy" type)

I either have to really feel like a prize or REALLY feel like a stupid irrelevant thing.

(And now can we see why I just avoided the whole stupid issue for as long as I have and just not bottomed?)

[A Desert Rose]

Originally Posted by Netzach

See and my dealbreaker would be something like "put on this cheap teddy and we're going to the playparty and you're going to giggle and wiggle and act like a bimbo slut with the other perfectly smart middle aged gals breaking out of vanilla marriages doing the same"

I'd be outta there. Or flinging poo.

Some people's idea of a great time and a wonderful expression of their "real" sexuality is my nightmare and dealbreaker.

Not that making monkey noises isn't obviously, really a stretch and really uncomfortable for me - but that's also part of it. If any part of me is thinking "well, why?" or "is my sexual hunger for you something you want me to be ashamed of?" or "is this supposed to be embarrassing?" then I get into the downward spiral of losing respect for the top. My bull can get away with a lot of this slightly blush inducing sexual stuff, but he keeps it in good taste and therefore not what I'd consider really humiliating, more a light objectification and a flattering one (the "you are my trophy" type)

I either have to really feel like a prize or REALLY feel like a stupid irrelevant thing.

(And now can we see why I just avoided the whole stupid issue for as long as I have and just not bottomed?)

I'm always afraid to answer your posts because I'm never sure if I'm reading you right or not. So... I won't really answer this one. LOL And just kinda go on with my same train of thinking.

The way I can differentiate between ridicule and humiliation is how I feel when it's happening to me. If it makes me feel bad, then it's ridicule. In my mind, if someone is ridiculing me, they are showing disgust and disdain for me. That's hurtful. When I'm hurt to the core, it's ridicule. (Teasing is again, something I love and can tell the difference from ridicule.)

Making fun of me, is not fun or funny.

For me, humiliation is not about ridicule. It is about a "blush factor" as you said. It's about embarrassment but I never feel hurt or bad about myself when I'm in the middle of that.

God, does anyone really give a shit how I feel about this? That's how I know which threads to post to or not. It's my litmus test for threads.

[A Desert Rose]

Objectification is nothing to me. It's like drinking a glass of water.

Want me to be your footstool? Okay.

[the captians wench]

For the most part, I'm pretty hard to embarrass. There are things that do it, but they are pretty few and far between.

Now blushing, I do that very easily.

Objectification, I love. I think for me it goes back to being the attention whore I am. *giggles* I really could care less if you are snuggling with me or using me as a footstool, as long as I'm recieving some bit of your attention, I'm in seventh heaven.

[twysted73]

Originally Posted by CutieMouse

I'm at a place in life where I think just about everything is negotiable. There have to be ways for just about everyone to get their kinks met, even if it takes a bit of creativity.

For all I know I could meet a man who loves those words, and we agree to slowly work on my reaction to them, to see if we can work them into humiliation scenes for his pleasure. Make sense?

I like how your mind works.
It's the kind of mind I have and appreciate in others. Because ( TO ME ) the level of maturity, intelligence and self-assuredness required to posess such a perception and command of oneself is, unfortunately, quite rare.

[twysted73]

Originally Posted by nh23

Yes, makes perfect sense. I see why it pisses you off because it's not true. For example I don't really like being called "slut" because I'm not. I don't bang every man I come in contact with. But... call me " My slut" and I'm in a puddle on the floor. It's kind of a complicated issue for me. As you said though finding the right person and working it all out could make all the difference.

* I guess saying banging every guy in site wasn't how I was trying to phrase that. It sounded very harsh.. and multiple sex partners does not mean someone is a slut. The word slut means a lot of different negative things to different people. I just meant that I don't see that my high sex drive makes me a slut*

Isn't Political Correctness a horrible thing sometimes? I could almost hear an organ grinder going as I read that.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by A Desert Rose

I'm always afraid to answer your posts because I'm never sure if I'm reading you right or not. So... I won't really answer this one. LOL And just kinda go on with my same train of thinking.

The way I can differentiate between ridicule and humiliation is how I feel when it's happening to me. If it makes me feel bad, then it's ridicule. In my mind, if someone is ridiculing me, they are showing disgust and disdain for me. That's hurtful. When I'm hurt to the core, it's ridicule. (Teasing is again, something I love and can tell the difference from ridicule.)

Making fun of me, is not fun or funny.

For me, humiliation is not about ridicule. It is about a "blush factor" as you said. It's about embarrassment but I never feel hurt or bad about myself when I'm in the middle of that.

God, does anyone really give a shit how I feel about this? That's how I know which threads to post to or not. It's my litmus test for threads.

\
This makes sense. I hope I'm not being that opaque, I'm just saying that something which is a dealbreaker for you and probably most other people or at least "why the hell?" is something that I can see myself being ok with, even slightly into. Not for its own sake, but for how that might function - it's a kind of absurd act that I can certainly see me and H playing around with, and we seem to be in a minority on that level.

[Homburg]

Originally Posted by A Desert Rose

For me, humiliation is not about ridicule. It is about a "blush factor" as you said. It's about embarrassment but I never feel hurt or bad about myself when I'm in the middle of that.

That's the core for me. When she has her head down, and is trying not to smile a little in embarrassment, blushing, and getting flustered, that is when I know that she is right where she wants to be. And I only do that with someone I know well. It's an emotional minefield otherwise.

[Pure]

callinectes I find it terribly humiliating that I enjoyed X and I really liked it when he did Z and put A in B. But gosh, it turns me on. Name- calling is tough. He would never call me a bitch but if he did I would go ballistic. Other names are difficult for me as well, mainly because I still struggle with this whole good girl/shame thing and I need huge amount of reassurance that I have his love and respect. Calling me a whore would not be reassuring. LOL

i agree names only go so far; but actions are fine fodder. as netzie has said on other occasions, some actions, labels cannot be argued with; if the person is licking cum off the floor they are a cum sucker.

another side of what done, and again netize reminds us of this, that 'insult' is fed even more if the bottom is made to ask, 'may i lick the cum off the floor' or say "i want to....."

a further element is the lack of control or self control; assuming ftsoa that the bottom is male, that he has no control over coming on the floor, i.e cant stop masturbating or coming while being masturbated, adds to humiliation. were the bottom female, having the top's piss in her mouth while inevitably coming is going to be humiliating. and all of these points can be underscored in the talk. 'drinking this piss is a turn on, isn't it. .... wouldn't you say it's a rather disgusting habit?'---'what would your wife/husband/ best friend say?'

[graceanne]

Originally Posted by A Desert Rose

Objectification is nothing to me. It's like drinking a glass of water.

Want me to be your footstool? Okay.

I read those things sometimes in stories and they are boring to read, and would probably be boring to do.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by graceanne

I read those things sometimes in stories and they are boring to read, and would probably be boring to do.

That's how I generally feel about 9/10ths of whatever's floated around here as super hawt.

[graceanne]

Originally Posted by Netzach

That's how I generally feel about 9/10ths of whatever's floated around here as super hawt.

LOL That's cause you're cool. But I agree, a lot of the stuff that's 'hawt' seems either boring or on my hard limits list.

[CutieMouse]

*****

[callinectes]

Originally Posted by Pure

callinectes I find it terribly humiliating that I enjoyed X and I really liked it when he did Z and put A in B. But gosh, it turns me on. Name- calling is tough. He would never call me a bitch but if he did I would go ballistic. Other names are difficult for me as well, mainly because I still struggle with this whole good girl/shame thing and I need huge amount of reassurance that I have his love and respect. Calling me a whore would not be reassuring. LOL

i agree names only go so far; but actions are fine fodder. as netzie has said on other occasions, some actions, labels cannot be argued with; if the person is licking cum off the floor they are a cum sucker.

another side of what done, and again netize reminds us of this, that 'insult' is fed even more if the bottom is made to ask, 'may i lick the cum off the floor' or say "i want to....."

a further element is the lack of control or self control; assuming ftsoa that the bottom is male, that he has no control over coming on the floor, i.e cant stop masturbating or coming while being masturbated, adds to humiliation. were the bottom female, having the top's piss in her mouth while inevitably coming is going to be humiliating. and all of these points can be underscored in the talk. 'drinking this piss is a turn on, isn't it. .... wouldn't you say it's a rather disgusting habit?'---'what would your wife/husband/ best friend say?'

I guess I am weird. I have been made to ask permission to do some humiliating things..and I do get off on it. But, he is careful to couch it with something like "aren't you a good girl to do this for me because it makes me happy". I guess you could argue I'm not very submissive because I need that reassurance, but it is what it is. Of course, this is an area we have talked about at length and we have worked through a lot of issues I had...and I now understand he is not judging me or thinking less of me when I do those things. It's my baggage and that's how we are trying to unload it.

[Homburg]

Originally Posted by callinectes

I guess you could argue I'm not very submissive because I need that reassurance, but it is what it is.

I've never understood this concept. Do you submit? Okay, you're a submissive. So you have needs, doesn't everybody? So long as your needs are so detailed that you're running the scene, what's the big deal?

[graceanne]

Originally Posted by callinectes

I guess I am weird. I have been made to ask permission to do some humiliating things..and I do get off on it. But, he is careful to couch it with something like "aren't you a good girl to do this for me because it makes me happy". I guess you could argue I'm not very submissive because I need that reassurance, but it is what it is. Of course, this is an area we have talked about at length and we have worked through a lot of issues I had...and I now understand he is not judging me or thinking less of me when I do those things. It's my baggage and that's how we are trying to unload it.

Doesn't sound unsubmissive to me. *shrugs*

[callinectes]

Well, it doesn't sound unsubmissive to me either, but we all know that there are those who would say it was.

[Homburg]

Originally Posted by callinectes

Well, it doesn't sound unsubmissive to me either, but we all know that there are those who would say it was.

Yup, I call them 'assholes'. It's a technical term amongst Doms...

[callinectes]

Originally Posted by Homburg

Yup, I call them 'assholes'. It's a technical term amongst Doms...

*snort* thanks for that Homburg!!

[graceanne]

Originally Posted by callinectes

Well, it doesn't sound unsubmissive to me either, but we all know that there are those who would say it was.

You can't please everyone, so just make sure to please the ones who're right - namely us.

[myinnerslut]

my belated two cents:

in my relationship we dont focus on humiliation, but it almost always plays some part in our scenes. i can act slutty, love when he calls me his slut becuase of my actions, but ask me to describe what im doing and the embarresment sets in. my face get a little red, i stutter slightly as i choke over the words, and somehow i get wetter then before. A calls it my mix of innocence and slut, and loves playing with my mind over it. another thing that humiliates me is being exposed or inspected.

as for objectification, it doesnt embarress me much, but i do crave attention if i am left alone.