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Old 10-03-2016, 08:58 PM   #1
Kantarii
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Genre- bending fantasy

Mind you, before anyone hair triggers the post, I said and meant genre -bending, not gender- bending


I found an excerpt from an article online and will post it in the OP for discussion.

EXCERPT: We are in the midst of a glorious Golden Age of paranormal fantasy—the last ten years, specifically, in genre fiction have been nothing short of landscape-changing. The days of rigidly defined categories (romance, fantasy, horror, etc.) are long gone. Today, genre-blending novels reign supreme: narratives with virtually limitless potential that freely utilize elements of fantasy, romance, mystery, horror, and science fiction.

I think this excerpt applies to those that have difficulty categorizing their stories and question where to post them on this site. The relevance factor screams that stories are moving towards encompassing broader themes within them.

Don't get me wrong, I do love reading "pure" stories such as "Sherlock Holmes" and "Frankenstein" or "Lord of the rings", but I'm also appreciative of the trend of stories that blend other elements into the fantasy. 💋Kant
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:12 PM   #2
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Erotica generally is fantasy; most of the categories on Lit are basically different fantasies, so to be considered a fantasy (apart from the norm for erotica) a story has to go a step beyond the standard.

Readers of my longest series in I/T are actually starting to understand that the story is a religious fantasy -- odd that it's taken this long since the title suggests that it might be. My Valentine's Day story (also in I/T) is clearly a fantastic story, with a Native American beast god emerging from the petroglyphs, and ancestral voices awakening in the protagonists. My story in Erotic Horror isn't horror at all, but a romantic fantasy with ghosts.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:20 PM   #3
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I think this excerpt applies to those that have difficulty categorizing their stories and question where to post them on this site. The relevance factor screams that stories are moving towards encompassing broader themes within them.

Don't get me wrong, I do love reading "pure" stories such as "Sherlock Holmes" and "Frankenstein" or "Lord of the rings", but I'm also appreciative of the trend of stories that blend other elements into the fantasy. 💋Kant[/QUOTE

Genres are relatively new to the literary world anyway. Once there was just fiction and nonfiction but nonconformists like Poe and Mark Twain proved how fallacious that division could be. Poetry was always a separate category divided into rhyme and heroic. Literature really didn't start getting divided up until the arrival of the Romantics in the 18th Century. Academia accelerated that process and began to divide things into high brow and low brow. In other words, "We DON'T care if Edgar Rice Burroughs has created two of the most iconic characters on the entire planet. His work id "pulp" fiction and is far behind literary fiction like Hemingway or F. Scott Fitgerald"
As colleges and a college education became increasingly important, literature was further subdivided and almost EVERYTHING not literary was declared without merit. The rise of nerds and nerd culture changed everything. Academia still lacks behind but now and then you will see an appreciation of science fiction, horror, or fantasy.

I've posted a bit in all those categories on Literotica.com. My rule of thumb is if it MIGHT happen it is science fiction. If it CANNOT happen it is fantasy, and if it involves a mystical or noncorporeal being, it is horror.

Not one size fits all but close enough for this website's purpose.
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantarii View Post
EXCERPT: We are in the midst of a glorious Golden Age of paranormal fantasy—the last ten years, specifically, in genre fiction have been nothing short of landscape-changing. The days of rigidly defined categories (romance, fantasy, horror, etc.) are long gone. Today, genre-blending novels reign supreme: narratives with virtually limitless potential that freely utilize elements of fantasy, romance, mystery, horror, and science fiction.
Does the article explain why they're presenting this as a new thing?

As Wifetheif notes, genres are a relatively recent invention; while publishers took to pigeonholing work by genre for organisational/marketing purposes, authors never stopped blurring those lines.

Just a few examples:

- Many horror writers used SF elements as a plot device: Poe's "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar", Lovecraft's "From Beyond" & "In the Walls of Eryx" (+ many more)
- The line between dark fantasy and horror is pretty much non-existent. R.E. Howard's Conan stories repeatedly referenced Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos and vice versa. Wilde's "The Fisherman and his Soul" is a mix of fantasy and horror; even the original "Little Mermaid" is pretty horrific when you think about it. One of my first introductions to horror/fantasy was Tanith Lee's "Companions on the Road", and of course there's Dunsany.
- Speaking of Oscar Wilde, there's a significant chunk of his influence in the "Yellow Sign" branch of the Cthulhu Mythos.
- Clive Barker has been writing fantasy/horror for many years, often mixed with erotic elements (The Hellbound Heart, etc.)
- Anne Rice has been writing various mixes of horror, fantasy, romance, and erotica since the mid-1970s.
- Piers Anthony's "Incarnations of Immortality" and "Adept" series were mixing fantasy and SF from 1980.
- Anne McCaffrey's Pern books are somewhere between SF and F.
- Moore/Bissette's John Constantine, supernatural detective
- etc. etc.

Maybe I'm missing something but this reads like "article author just noticed the existence of cross-genre work and mistook this for a new development".
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
- The line between dark fantasy and horror is pretty much non-existent. R.E. Howard's Conan stories repeatedly referenced Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos and vice versa. Wilde's "The Fisherman and his Soul" is a mix of fantasy and horror; even the original "Little Mermaid" is pretty horrific when you think about it.
"The Little Mermaid" is a dark, horrible story.

I thought about it. I refused to read most Hans Christian Anderson stories to my daughters when they were growing up. They didn't need to think that it was ever acceptable to give themselves up for an unobtainable, romantic goal.

I read them "The Snow Queen." I read them "The Wild Swans."
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Old 10-04-2016, 12:19 AM   #6
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"The Little Mermaid" is a dark, horrible story.

I thought about it. I refused to read most Hans Christian Anderson stories to my daughters when they were growing up. They didn't need to think that it was ever acceptable to give themselves up for an unobtainable, romantic goal.

I read them "The Snow Queen." I read them "The Wild Swans."
I see your point but The Little Match Girl is a sad, beautiful and moving tale.
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Old 10-04-2016, 12:30 AM   #7
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I see your point but The Little Match Girl is a sad, beautiful and moving tale.
It is. There's nothing more that I can say other than that I will never forget it. The story haunts me.
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Old 10-04-2016, 02:21 AM   #8
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Talking

I love joining different genres. My problem is a lot of authors, published ones too, have no F***ing idea what they're talking about in the "other" genre.

I'll just point out a couple examples, withnot naming author or book name.

Military romance -- there are literally DOZENS of just the "hunky SEAL" romances, not to mention bazillion others, far more than there are actual SEALs in active service. Most of these are just generic "good guys with guns"except the author tries to throw in some military terminology. More than a few try to write military combat scenes that look as if they are cribbed (badly) from American Sniper (the movie) or an episode of 24 that completely contradicts how the SEALs are usually deployed or how they are supposed to be on leave while in the US, or how Pentagon and military operates, PERIOD!

EX A: a certain series had the MMC be yanked off to a mission (i.e. suddenly reactivated) not by him given an order or a phone call, but verbally informed by a chief petty officer while doing weekend warrior (reserve) requirements. And the combat scene is laughably bad.

EX B: a certain series had the team leader running around LA playing vigilante to save his girlfriend.

EX C: a certain military romance had the MMC (a mere corporal) leading a team rescuing civilians in Afghanistan and ended up fucking this hot reporter. No problem with that, actually. The problem is he's then assigned to rescue her when he f***ed up and she was taken. The combat scene basically had him groping in a house, got grazed in the elbow, watch someone else got shot, groping around blind (smoke grenade) until he accidentally found her. WTF?!

I can say the same about some Western Romances, and there are both good ones and bad ones.

I don't know why, but I've yet to run into a GOOD military romance that managed to be romantic AND militarily acurate at the same time. Makes me want to write one. :-P
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Old 10-04-2016, 03:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayceeCharles View Post
I love joining different genres. My problem is a lot of authors, published ones too, have no F***ing idea what they're talking about in the "other" genre.

I'll just point out a couple examples, withnot naming author or book name.

Military romance -- there are literally DOZENS of just the "hunky SEAL" romances, not to mention bazillion others, far more than there are actual SEALs in active service. Most of these are just generic "good guys with guns"except the author tries to throw in some military terminology. More than a few try to write military combat scenes that look as if they are cribbed (badly) from American Sniper (the movie) or an episode of 24 that completely contradicts how the SEALs are usually deployed or how they are supposed to be on leave while in the US, or how Pentagon and military operates, PERIOD!

EX A: a certain series had the MMC be yanked off to a mission (i.e. suddenly reactivated) not by him given an order or a phone call, but verbally informed by a chief petty officer while doing weekend warrior (reserve) requirements. And the combat scene is laughably bad.

EX B: a certain series had the team leader running around LA playing vigilante to save his girlfriend.

EX C: a certain military romance had the MMC (a mere corporal) leading a team rescuing civilians in Afghanistan and ended up fucking this hot reporter. No problem with that, actually. The problem is he's then assigned to rescue her when he f***ed up and she was taken. The combat scene basically had him groping in a house, got grazed in the elbow, watch someone else got shot, groping around blind (smoke grenade) until he accidentally found her. WTF?!

I can say the same about some Western Romances, and there are both good ones and bad ones.

I don't know why, but I've yet to run into a GOOD military romance that managed to be romantic AND militarily acurate at the same time. Makes me want to write one. :-P
What? You don't think it is realistic for three SEALs to be on vacation in a foreign country, meet three women, all who have three different ties to three different major criminal activities? Or is it the part, where the three buddies manage to save all three women, end the crime sprees, fall in love with the women, and still have a few days of their vacation time left over?

Sometimes I find that an author gets so bogged down in trying to make sure the reader knows how authentic their story is, that they end up making the story boring. I know one western writer who filled his books with actual footnotes at the bottom of the pages to explain in great detail the type of gun or the historic significance of something. I found the footnotes interesting but they distracted me from the story. I do like it when writers stick in a section at the back of the book and explain how something is or isn't accurate. I read enough to be able to know what might be possible, but I don't know enough about the military to know what is factual. But if I like the characters, then I don't care if it isn't absolutely accurate.

I can see how it might frustrate or more likely amuse military people, just as it does any profession who is written about in stories or tv programs. The authors I read that have worked in the field they write about, frequently bend some of the reality to fit their fictional writing. If a writer is writing with total accuracy, chances are the book is non-fiction.

However, if you write your book, let me know.
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Old 10-04-2016, 04:35 AM   #10
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I love joining different genres. My problem is a lot of authors, published ones too, have no F***ing idea what they're talking about in the "other" genre.
Speaking of no f***ing idea, have you ever tried biker romances. They take 1% Motorcycle Clubs and make them into something that they're not at all, romanticizing the heck out of them and then some. It's quite fascinating to see how romance writers twist the whole 1% outlaw biker lifestyle. I've been writing a story where the protagonist (chinese girl) becomes the girlfriend of a biker and didn't know anything about the 1% lifestyle or biker romances (I prefer regency romances myself...) when I started and it was quite the eye opener.
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Old 10-05-2016, 01:42 AM   #11
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What? You don't think it is realistic for three SEALs to be on vacation in a foreign country, meet three women, all who have three different ties to three different major criminal activities? Or is it the part, where the three buddies manage to save all three women, end the crime sprees, fall in love with the women, and still have a few days of their vacation time left over?
Really? Did it end with a gangbang?

Quote:
Sometimes I find that an author gets so bogged down in trying to make sure the reader knows how authentic their story is, that they end up making the story boring.
Oh, I agree. I don't need to know if the gun's a Glock 17 or a Browning Hi-Power, unless it's relevant to the plot. But making **** up about how the military operates is bull****.

Real example: A certain SEAL story had "hero" on a ship with comm blackout, so he can't tell his girl back home he's okay. Then his buddy slipped him a regular cell phone (that works in the middle of an ocean?) , claimed that he got special dispensation. (WTF?!), then not only they did the sexting thing, they went Facetime Sex too (!!!!).

That's about as realistic as someone pulling out a SAW LMG in the middle of OK Corral.

And the sad part is this could have been easily fixed by moving the hero to San Diego for some remedial training rather than kept on a carrier in the middle of nowhere!

Quote:
I can see how it might frustrate or more likely amuse military people, just as it does any profession who is written about in stories or tv programs.
TV shows hire consultants, people who really talk the talk and walk the walk to make stuff authentic. (Did you know Gene Roddenberry, creator was Star Trek, was LAPD, and was consulting on most police shows before he started writing full time?) Authors should do the same, rather than making **** up. That's all I'm saying, when they write about UNFAMILIAR genres. Do proper research, hire a consultant/reader to check things over, or try to write WITHOUT.
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Old 10-05-2016, 01:58 AM   #12
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've yet to run into a GOOD military romance that managed to be romantic AND militarily acurate at the same time. Makes me want to write one. :-P
I think I found one that's at least adequate: Waiting for Dawn by Susan May Warren It's more suspense than military, and it's just a novella. But at least it's not grossly misrepresenting the military.

Blurb: Lacey Galloway is humdrum DoD analyst with her heart torn between two beaus: Jim Micah, an Army special forces sergeant who made her felt cherished, or Captain John Montgomery, USAF, who got her heart racing in excitement. When news broke that Micah's SF team went MIA, Lacey went to John to organize an strictly off-the-books rescue mission into the mountains of Afghanistan... But who will gain her heart at the end, if both of her beaus survive the mission?

While you still have to believe that the military bureaucracy would let them get away with an off-the-books rescue mission by a couple guys, it's at least more believable than a plain cellphone that works in the middle of the ocean on a ship that's supposed to be on comm blackout.
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:03 PM   #13
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Erotica generally is fantasy; most of the categories on Lit are basically different fantasies, so to be considered a fantasy (apart from the norm for erotica) a story has to go a step beyond the standard.
I sometimes get the feeling that several readers think its "real life".
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:20 PM   #14
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[quote=Kantarii;80904088]
I think this excerpt applies to those that have difficulty categorizing their stories and question where to post them on this site. The relevance factor screams that stories are moving towards encompassing broader themes within them.

As a relatively new author on Lit, I was recently informed that a story I posted under erotic horror and tagged with only two tags isn't getting the exposure to the readers because of a lack of genre entries and a multitude of applied tags.
This person could be onto something, because other stories entered the same day got nearly 40,000 readers, while mine had less than 1000 over two days. I'm seeing the validity to the point of posting under as many genre's as you can find. Doesn't quiet seem honest, but whatever works for some, I suppose. (All's fair in love and literature???)
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by holliday1960 View Post
As a relatively new author on Lit, I was recently informed that a story I posted under erotic horror and tagged with only two tags isn't getting the exposure to the readers because of a lack of genre entries and a multitude of applied tags.

This person could be onto something, because other stories entered the same day got nearly 40,000 readers, while mine had less than 1000 over two days. I'm seeing the validity to the point of posting under as many genre's as you can find. Doesn't quiet seem honest, but whatever works for some, I suppose. (All's fair in love and literature???)
The categories have a wide range of numbers. In EH 1k views over two days is good. For incest, it is lousy. Category means a lot when it comes to views.
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Old 10-05-2016, 04:35 PM   #16
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[quote=holliday1960;80944916]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantarii View Post
I think this excerpt applies to those that have difficulty categorizing their stories and question where to post them on this site. The relevance factor screams that stories are moving towards encompassing broader themes within them.

As a relatively new author on Lit, I was recently informed that a story I posted under erotic horror and tagged with only two tags isn't getting the exposure to the readers because of a lack of genre entries and a multitude of applied tags.
This person could be onto something, because other stories entered the same day got nearly 40,000 readers, while mine had less than 1000 over two days. I'm seeing the validity to the point of posting under as many genre's as you can find. Doesn't quiet seem honest, but whatever works for some, I suppose. (All's fair in love and literature???)
I don't think it has anything to do with tags. New authors don't have a fan base of readers like other more established writers on Lit. Just my two cents.
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Old 10-05-2016, 07:25 PM   #17
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The categories have a wide range of numbers. In EH 1k views over two days is good. For incest, it is lousy. Category means a lot when it comes to views.
Thanks, Txrad and Kantarii, for the input. It still makes sense to me that the more tags you add, the more times your story will appear in the search results. Both your answers make sense as well.
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:26 PM   #18
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Thanks, Txrad and Kantarii, for the input. It still makes sense to me that the more tags you add, the more times your story will appear in the search results. Both your answers make sense as well.
The number of tags only gives you a wider variety of searches. All the data is there all the time so what search results are you talking about?
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:41 PM   #19
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Bust whatever genres you want. But to feel like you've accomplished something on LIT, figure out your main theme and post it in that category. Better yet, post it in one of the more-read cats and pander to that audience while slipping your sub-themes down their throats. Open wide...
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:46 PM   #20
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Thanks, Txrad and Kantarii, for the input. It still makes sense to me that the more tags you add, the more times your story will appear in the search results. Both your answers make sense as well.
I don't know that the search tags have much at all to do with views. They may play a role when your story has dropped out of sight and a few people find it with the search facility. Right now your story is still readily visible on the EH hub and most of your reads should be coming from EH readers. Unfortunately there aren't many EH readers, even with the Halloween contest underway.

The one EH story I have was tagged with a lot of different categories. It's been up for more than two months now with less than 2300 views. A popular story on I/T can get that in minutes. Most of the reads it has came early while it was still visible on the new stories list.

EH is kind of a dead zone -- which seems completely appropriate. If you want people to see your story then you need to post in a different category.
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Old 10-05-2016, 10:07 PM   #21
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I don't know that the search tags have much at all to do with views. They may play a role when your story has dropped out of sight and a few people find it with the search facility. Right now your story is still readily visible on the EH hub and most of your reads should be coming from EH readers. Unfortunately there aren't many EH readers, even with the Halloween contest underway.

The one EH story I have was tagged with a lot of different categories. It's been up for more than two months now with less than 2300 views. A popular story on I/T can get that in minutes. Most of the reads it has came early while it was still visible on the new stories list.

EH is kind of a dead zone -- which seems completely appropriate. If you want people to see your story then you need to post in a different category.
Sad but true.
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Old 10-06-2016, 12:29 AM   #22
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I don't know that the search tags have much at all to do with views. They may play a role when your story has dropped out of sight and a few people find it with the search facility. Right now your story is still readily visible on the EH hub and most of your reads should be coming from EH readers. Unfortunately there aren't many EH readers, even with the Halloween contest underway.

The one EH story I have was tagged with a lot of different categories. It's been up for more than two months now with less than 2300 views. A popular story on I/T can get that in minutes. Most of the reads it has came early while it was still visible on the new stories list.

EH is kind of a dead zone -- which seems completely appropriate. If you want people to see your story then you need to post in a different category.
I guess what I am saying, and not well, might I add, is exactly what these last three posts are pointing out...IF I had not posted it under EH, which surprisingly isn't much of a "thing" anymore with readers, and had chosen to post it under...let's say...erotic couplings...(what the hell is that, anyway?)
or even Mature sex, since the demons are like really, really mature being dead and all...then, used tags as an after-thought...more people would have viewed it? Maybe?

Of course, I could have gone IR since more than 50% of the characters are obviously of mixed race...sneaky tactic stuff...like Hypoxia suggested. But, you run the chance of pissing the readers off when they read a couple of pages and realize they've been had!

(but, then, what do I know! I still can't even figure out how to make the emoticons appear in message posts on here! Not surprising since the clock in my car is off by an hour during daylight savings time, and my microbuzz has been displaying 12:00 for years now.) Did I ever mention I hate all this technology...give me a pen and paper any old day! Back in the day, you didn't have to declare a gendre. You bought a book; you read it; you got a surprise that you either liked or hated. End of story!

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Old 10-06-2016, 01:32 AM   #23
Carnal_Flower
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It took me a long time to figure this out. I don't know why it's not explained somewhere.

You need to go into your User CP.

Click on Edit Options

Scroll all the way down to Miscellaneous Options. The control is the "Message Editor Interface" and that's where you switch on all the emoticons and stuff. It probably still has Simple Text or something like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by holliday1960 View Post
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(but, then, what do I know! I still can't even figure out how to make the emoticons appear in message posts on here! Not surprising since the clock in my car is off by an hour during daylight savings time, and my microbuzz has been displaying 12:00 for years now.) Did I ever mention I hate all this technology...give me a pen and paper any old day! Back in the day, you didn't have to declare a gendre. You bought a book; you read it; you got a surprise that you either liked or hated. End of story!
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:06 AM   #24
TxRad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holliday1960 View Post
I guess what I am saying, and not well, might I add, is exactly what these last three posts are pointing out...IF I had not posted it under EH, which surprisingly isn't much of a "thing" anymore with readers, and had chosen to post it under...let's say...erotic couplings...(what the hell is that, anyway?)
or even Mature sex, since the demons are like really, really mature being dead and all...then, used tags as an after-thought...more people would have viewed it? Maybe?

Of course, I could have gone IR since more than 50% of the characters are obviously of mixed race...sneaky tactic stuff...like Hypoxia suggested. But, you run the chance of pissing the readers off when they read a couple of pages and realize they've been had!
You might also want to know that Laurel, the lady that reads all our crap, well mostly reads, will slap your story in EH if it is an EH story. She gets final say.

Put the story where it fits best. After a while, you will build a fan base hopefully. The views may be low but usually the scores are higher.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:51 AM   #25
holliday1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
It took me a long time to figure this out. I don't know why it's not explained somewhere.

You need to go into your User CP.

Click on Edit Options

Scroll all the way down to Miscellaneous Options. The control is the "Message Editor Interface" and that's where you switch on all the emoticons and stuff. It probably still has Simple Text or something like that.
Thank you, Carnal F, for that tidbit of information!(It is on simple text) I'll fix that today. Thank you! (Is it just me, or does anyone else get tired of feeling simply stupid when it comes to tech stuff?) Maybe my next writing endeavor could be SF about a woman who dominates a computer. It's going under bdsm with a (square) pegging tag, and a disclaimer that no computers were injured during the writing of this story!
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