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Contextual submission

Netzach

Netzach

>semiotics?
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
Posts
21,732
So I'm curious about this for personal reasons, I guess. I know that a lot of people experience their identity as something they pinpoint in their adolescence - the people who always "knew they were different" the people who "always got tied up" when playing with other kids or dreamt about being a slave, or witches at the stake or whatnot.

People who learn themselves, go out to find a compatible partner who will mesh with these interests and with their submissive identity. It's normal and natural and we see it every day.

Are there people out there, though, for whom submission is totally contextual in terms of who they're submitting to? Who never felt a submissive inclination till they met the person who brought it out, and can't fathom the same kind of relationship with anyone else? People who literally conjecture that their desire to be submissive in a relationship will end if/when that relationship ends?
 
Netzach said:
So I'm curious about this for personal reasons, I guess. I know that a lot of people experience their identity as something they pinpoint in their adolescence - the people who always "knew they were different" the people who "always got tied up" when playing with other kids or dreamt about being a slave, or witches at the stake or whatnot.

People who learn themselves, go out to find a compatible partner who will mesh with these interests and with their submissive identity. It's normal and natural and we see it every day.

Are there people out there, though, for whom submission is totally contextual in terms of who they're submitting to? Who never felt a submissive inclination till they met the person who brought it out, and can't fathom the same kind of relationship with anyone else? People who literally conjecture that their desire to be submissive in a relationship will end if/when that relationship ends?
Click to expand...

Si. Though I guess I could be a little of both of your examples. I always liked pain, liked being tied up, whatever, but until I met B., I never had any desire to submit. Even in the bedroom, before B., I always had control, even when I was bottoming. It wasn't an immediate "OMG, I'm this man's total slave!" moment when I first met him, but there were definitely tugs of something I'd never felt before. As we got to know each other, I got to the point that I'd do pretty much anything if he asked.

Goofy though it sounds, he's totally brought out this side of me that I didn't realize I had. If our relationship ever ends, I doubt I'll ever be the submissive one again. I like kink, love to Top and to bottom, but if I ever lose B., I'll have submissives only and just bottom to a trusted friend when I need that kind of release. I just can't see myself giving myself to anybody but him. Does that count?
 
I've always had submissive fantasys and stuff, but as a teenager I was a bitch on wheels. (and I don't mean that in a good way.) I can't imagine submitting to anyone else, cause I don't trust anyone as much as I trust K. Frankly I don't trust him that much, but enough to submit. I could never be a slave - I don't trust anyone that much. In my experience whenever it comes down to me or them it's always them and I get fucked. *shrugs*
 
I feel that way about my slavery, but not my submission in general. Being a slave and the things I do and feel as a slave was never something I wanted or felt any inkling of with anyone else. I don't think I could again with anyone else either.

Who knows though.
 
I never thought I would take submission out of just being a private fantasy that I would masturbate to into real life. I don't think if I hadn't met my present Dom just by chance on a non-BDSM site that I ever would have made it real. I'm already very happily married why would I take the risk? But I am glad I did.

I can't see myself searching for another if my present relationship comes to an end. We mesh so perfectly in what we both want I would think it would be impossible to find someone else.

But I wouldn't rule it out.
 
I am one of those who always wanted to be tied up, and even as a kid, my imagination would lean toward 'Damsel in Distress' scenarios. But at the same time, I hated (and still do) storylines, fantasies, etc where the female in question can do nothing but scream. I'm not saying that I haven't written stories like that, but mostly I lean toward the ones where the female character has examined her situation and decided that submission to the male character would be safer, or make it easier to escape later.

All that being said, I don't know if I could submit to just anyone. Hell, I'm not even sure I'm a 'proper' submissive. But I do know that M is the first person who I felt even remotely comfortable exploring with. And he knows precisely how choosy I've been.
 
OK, I'm guessing this is rare. I really mean "wow, it never occured to me I might actually like this till I met X". I'm talking about a thing that goes beyond essential selectivity.
 
Another one?

ecstaticsub said:
I never thought I would take submission out of just being a private fantasy that I would masturbate to into real life. I don't think if I hadn't met my present Dom just by chance on a non-BDSM site that I ever would have made it real. I'm already very happily married why would I take the risk? But I am glad I did.

I can't see myself searching for another if my present relationship comes to an end. We mesh so perfectly in what we both want I would think it would be impossible to find someone else.

But I wouldn't rule it out.
Click to expand...

ES
I KNOW exactly how you feel. I met My D on a NON bdsm site. and when we started talking I hadnt been "looking" I was just curious and we clicked so well it was like it was meant to be.. but the one where I differ from you is I know NOW after being with him and submitting to him. I will not ever replace him no matter what if we end. that will be the end for me , I trust him explictly and I am happily married to a man who for "vanilla" purposes is a great father to our kids, a best friend and husband..
:kiss:
 
Netzach said:
OK, I'm guessing this is rare. I really mean "wow, it never occured to me I might actually like this till I met X". I'm talking about a thing that goes beyond essential selectivity.
Click to expand...

I can't provide you with the kind of extreme example you're looking for, but I can say that there are parts of my power orientation that are fairly personal and many other parts that are relative to the person I'm in a relationship with.

Probably pretty standard, not sure what that does for the discussion you're trying to have.
 
I think at this point in time I fall somewhere in the middle. I really don't see myself submitting to another in the future, can even feel a strange mixture of rage and outrage at the thought. In part it was something I recognised from the beginning of my exploration, hence I made the decision to find one who would be a lifetime partner, or remain alone and just engage in occasional SM play with people I trusted. I often think if something happened to him I would feel a part of me died in terms of the D/s element dying with him, and I often think it might be possible to feed in a different and perhaps not so powerful way by switching roles and taking on a submissive of my own, though likely casual more so than 24/7. While it is not my chosen role, there would be a bittersweet comfort in being able to give to another that which I no longer could enjoy...does that make sense?

Catalina :catroar:
 
catalina_francisco said:
I think at this point in time I fall somewhere in the middle. I really don't see myself submitting to another in the future, can even feel a strange mixture of rage and outrage at the thought. In part it was something I recognised from the beginning of my exploration, hence I made the decision to find one who would be a lifetime partner, or remain alone and just engage in occasional SM play with people I trusted. I often think if something happened to him I would feel a part of me died in terms of the D/s element dying with him, and I often think it might be possible to feed in a different and perhaps not so powerful way by switching roles and taking on a submissive of my own, though likely casual more so than 24/7. While it is not my chosen role, there would be a bittersweet comfort in being able to give to another that which I no longer could enjoy...does that make sense?

Catalina :catroar:
Click to expand...

Cat, that is quite possibly the most depressing thing I've ever heard. I don't know whether to congratulate you or growl at you. :p

Actually, I'll do neither. I'll just say that I think I know how you feel.
 
BiBunny said:
Cat, that is quite possibly the most depressing thing I've ever heard. I don't know whether to congratulate you or growl at you. :p

Actually, I'll do neither. I'll just say that I think I know how you feel.
Click to expand...

Yeah.... And no I'm not really stalking you..Or at least I don't think so. But then, I have an "active" subconcious...

The attraction of being the "Old Guy Down The Hall WIth The Cat", can get a bit overwhelming at times...
 
catalina_francisco said:
I think at this point in time I fall somewhere in the middle. I really don't see myself submitting to another in the future, can even feel a strange mixture of rage and outrage at the thought. In part it was something I recognised from the beginning of my exploration, hence I made the decision to find one who would be a lifetime partner, or remain alone and just engage in occasional SM play with people I trusted. I often think if something happened to him I would feel a part of me died in terms of the D/s element dying with him, and I often think it might be possible to feed in a different and perhaps not so powerful way by switching roles and taking on a submissive of my own, though likely casual more so than 24/7. While it is not my chosen role, there would be a bittersweet comfort in being able to give to another that which I no longer could enjoy...does that make sense?

Catalina :catroar:
Click to expand...
Actually this totally makes sense.
I think some very decent Dominants come to fruition from losing a relationship that was that all-encompassing from their early days, I've met a couple of people like this.
 
Marquis said:
I can't provide you with the kind of extreme example you're looking for, but I can say that there are parts of my power orientation that are fairly personal and many other parts that are relative to the person I'm in a relationship with.

Probably pretty standard, not sure what that does for the discussion you're trying to have.
Click to expand...


This is actually really useful, why should it have to do with submission at all? I'm an owner with H because that makes sense for him and me, but not with M because it would not.
 
Netzach said:
This is actually really useful, why should it have to do with submission at all? I'm an owner with H because that makes sense for him and me, but not with M because it would not.
Click to expand...



My sub and I had a conversation recently where she expressed an explicit desire for more aggressive control from me. I was kind of wide-eyed through the whole discussion.

These conversations can be motivated by anything from stress to insecurity to ovulation, but it's always awesome when I'm not the one starting them. It's kind of new for me to have a level of involvement from my partner that goes beyond cooperation.
 
I'm acquainted with a man who is big in every way -- physcial, heart, mind -- and was well known in the community as a dominant until he met his mistress. He is now addressed as "slave ___."

I've never met anyone I'd feel comfortable trying to submit to, so don't know if I could do it or not. But I'm a pretty good bottom, I'm told.

Respectfully,
ST
 
Once I became involves in this thing that we do and I started to find outlets for my submission I started to see a frame work develop defining who I would and who I would not submit to. Before that frame started to develop I would go submissive at the strangest times, to employers, to customers, to police officers when not needed. The structure of being subject to a Domme clarified where my subness belonged. At least that was how it was 10 years ago.

Then I started to explore me Top and became a switch and narrowed to whom and how I would sub. After several rather large emotional injuries as a sub I do not sub any longer. Every once in a while I meet someone and I feel that internal "oh my" and can see myself going to my knees at their feet - but an unwillingness to be vulnerable to hurt again keeps that in check. I might sub again, to the right person, at the right time and in exactly the right circumstances - the context is everything for me.

Good question, put a star on you refrigerator for today.

:kiss:
 
Prior to playing, I used to think that I could only sub for the right person. I don't know anymore. I'm starting to think it really depends on my frame of mind. I just don't have it in me to Top right now. On the other hand, I'm really guarded about completely letting go. So, I've only been able to go so far...

Was that vague enough for you? Lol...
 
Two modes , submissive in neutral speaking to identification and submissive active which for me has always been contextual. I resonate to ripples in the dominance pond , it's never that long however before I flat line. Submissive active contextual hinges on the some bizarre X factor and the dominant that can provoke it in me are far and few between. Throw some baggage in there and you have a twisted fait accompli that ends in solitude. I have some really nice little mental organza bags though , it all gets stored in the interim with due reverence .
 
actually, in my experiences and observations, most submissives in the lifestyle would fall under the "contextual" category. they only feel and express submission with a select individual, and with everyone else and in the rest of their lives in general, there's nothing submissive about them. i realize this isn't as extreme as the example of never dreaming for one second of being submissive to anyone or anything ever, and then one day meeting that certain person and instantly dropping to your knees...however for someone like me, whose submission isn't dependent on a particular person or even a relationship, it's an interesting phenomena.
 
Softouch911 said:
I'm acquainted with a man who is big in every way -- physcial, heart, mind -- and was well known in the community as a dominant until he met his mistress. He is now addressed as "slave ___."

I've never met anyone I'd feel comfortable trying to submit to, so don't know if I could do it or not. But I'm a pretty good bottom, I'm told.

Respectfully,
ST
Click to expand...

Yeah, the story of how things like that happen is interesting to me. Is it an issue of closeted submission all along, or finally trusting someone that much, or just being hit upside the head one day by something unconsidered prior?
 
ownedsubgal said:
actually, in my experiences and observations, most submissives in the lifestyle would fall under the "contextual" category. they only feel and express submission with a select individual, and with everyone else and in the rest of their lives in general, there's nothing submissive about them. i realize this isn't as extreme as the example of never dreaming for one second of being submissive to anyone or anything ever, and then one day meeting that certain person and instantly dropping to your knees...however for someone like me, whose submission isn't dependent on a particular person or even a relationship, it's an interesting phenomena.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. neonflux brought up Foucolt in another thread, I think what you're saying is evidence of the fact that we've made sexuality a core definer to the extent that a sexual submissive will be understood if they say "I am submissive" and this is good, whereas a social submissive will generally be told to grow a pair. :rolleyes:
 
Netzach said:
That's a good point. neonflux brought up Foucolt in another thread, I think what you're saying is evidence of the fact that we've made sexuality a core definer to the extent that a sexual submissive will be understood if they say "I am submissive" and this is good, whereas a social submissive will generally be told to grow a pair. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


exactly. silly me, when i first discovered the lifestyle i thought submissive meant submissive personality, period...not sexual submissive or bdsm bottom or masochist or submissive only when with the Great One...only to learn that a submissive personality apparently has nothing to do with anything. i might as well change my middle name to "doormat" as many times as i've been given the label, simply because my submission is NOT contextual.
 
ownedsubgal said:
exactly. silly me, when i first discovered the lifestyle i thought submissive meant submissive personality, period...not sexual submissive or bdsm bottom or masochist or submissive only when with the Great One...only to learn that a submissive personality apparently has nothing to do with anything. i might as well change my middle name to "doormat" as many times as i've been given the label, simply because my submission is NOT contextual.
Click to expand...


I just think they're different check boxes. I don't think someone's just acting if they're only submissive to that specific person who makes it make sense to them, but I don't think it magically changes their orientation either - or that people who are socially submissive need to be beaten over the head as much as they are - I think you will find social submissives who are private-life Dominants. (I'm generally a pretty accommodating person)

I guess this is what I'm chewing on lately, flavor du jour for me, as I confront some pretty weird reactions to one of my favorite people. Not totally out of the blue, I've always had a certain degree of flexibility, but different in shape and intensity than before.

Maybe it's those mid 30's hormones and nothing more. This definitely goes outside the parameters of what I find hot in any sort of baseline theoretical way. But put that person into the mental movie and my reactions unnerve me as they are different.
 
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