Ageplay/The Lolita Fetish

Disclaimer: Let me preface this by saying that while the title of this thread has the phrase "lolita fetish" in it, I am 100% talking about consenting adults here. I'm kind of hesitant to post this, anyway, and I just didn't want that to be foggy at all.

This is probably the oldest kink/fetish I have, so that's probably the reason it's one of the strongest, too. From the age of about 7, I've had fantasies of being tied up and coerced into doing kinky sexual things by a "nice man." In my mind, I'm always somewhere between the ages of 7 and 10, and the nice man is always in his mid-twenties to late-thirties. For the longest time, even after I discovered this lifestyle, I felt like I was very, very alone in this, mostly because of people's (understandably) adamant opposition to even mentioning anything about it.

I did a search, and I didn't see anything like what I was looking for. Most of the things listed under "ageplay" are Daddy/little girl threads, which isn't exactly the same kind of dynamic, in my opinion. I guess I'm thinking more of a "sweet, but already kinked little girl who just doesn't realize how deep her feelings run" and a "nice, non-murderous pedophile who ends up falling for said little girl, even though he's really conflicted about it."

I always kept this fantasy to myself. B. was the first person I ever really talked to about it. In fact, he sort of accidentally uncovered it one day. Since then, he's told me that he, too, has little-boy fantasies in which he's the somewhat kinked little boy, though his nice, non-murderous pedophile is sometimes male and sometimes female. (I wonder why mine's never female. Maybe it's because I'm not really into submitting to a woman. Oh, well, I digress.) We're basically the only people we've confessed our fantasies to.

Anyway, since we're both switchy, we've certainly explored these fantasies of ours. Unfortunately, we don't make good 10-year-olds; we REALLY have to use our imaginations because I'm really tall and have big breasts, and he's really tall and covered with body hair! I find that I like the nice pedophile role as much as I like being the little girl myself. (I feel like I have to point out that neither of us are attracted to children, not even remotely. Hell, I don't even LIKE kids.) When I'm the little girl, though, in my mind, I'm not 23-year-old Randi who's pretending to be 9 years old. I really am little 9-year-old Miranda, who's fallen in love with her much-older Master.

I don't know what "this" is. Like I said, I believe it's a lot edgier than Daddy/little girl. Of course, it could be because in the back of my mind, I'm still vaguely creeped out by this part of myself, which is probably why it gets my rocks off so much. It's not exactly roleplay in the strictest sense, but it's not not-roleplay, either. Lately, I've just found myself getting deeper and deeper into it.

As much as I hate to just throw it out there and say, "Discuss!", I guess I'm going to have to because I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this. I'm not asking for reassurances that I'm not sick or anything, but I'd like to hear from other folks who've been there, done that.

mmmmmm

Have you ever thought that perhaps what you're seeking is a severely increased level of fear and helplessness? As would be between an adult and child? Or am I completely off the mark?

This is not as weird or as unusual as you might think - less so for him than you, but consider my sample size of the population too. "Seduced by older woman as naive youngster" is high ranking on the list of fantasies, usually associated with retro lingerie fetish item. It stands to reason that girls would have similar fantasies about men. I definitely remember being attracted to men in their 40's, teachers and adult contacts, friend's dads, guys that age on the street when I was maybe 14, 15. (I got on the sexuality with other people in mind bus late) so it totally stands to reason that reliving that really intense and passionate kind of moment would be neato. I was kind of amazed at my power to attract the attention of men older than me at a young age - thank GOD my mother was overattentive in THIS aspect!! - but it sure does fuel me mentally to relive those would be seductions and play them out as though they were successful and more brazen and intentional.

OK, this sounds really messed up, but it's just kind of making me think of things I haven't gotten to try yet, hm.

As for the reality factor that creeps you, I think roleplaying is a lot less stupid than serious players tend to think. You're playing with regression. Puppies are playing with transformation.

From the other side...

BiBunny, I think that you are quite brave to post this. I am going to be somewhat vague as I don't want to violate a confidence. I have someone in my life for whom age play is a major fantasy - this person is the one who plays younger. I understand your statement that:

I'm still vaguely creeped out by this part of myself, which is probably why it gets my rocks off so much.

Click to expand...

It is something to which I have had to come very gradually, about the only thing I've done sexually with which I've ever had real difficulty, partially because of the societal taboos and not wanting to see myself as a "pederast" but just as much because I work with youth and trained myself long ago to deny any sexual feelings I might have for a young person (when I started this work, I was only about 6 years older than the oldest adolescents that I was teaching).

Am wondering if some of your difficulty in actually "playing" that age also comes from a fear of what it might bring up? Recently, I have become much more comfortable with my friend's fantasies and we have delved pretty deeply. It has not only been very erotic but phenominally powerful; I was blown away by the level of intimacy that resulted. I'd read that age-play can be this way, but was actually a little unprepared for the depth.

Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy refer to age-play briefly in the last chapter of "The New Topping Book," but primarily within the context of releasing childhood traumas. Don't know if they go into more depth regarding age play in "The New Bottoming Book." I have been wanting to buy/read "Radical Ecstacy" and wonder if they have write more about it there. I do remember something specific in "Consensual Sadomasochism" by Sybil Holiday, but couldn't look that up as it's now on loan. If it's in there, it will also include information on psychological safety. If I find something in Mark Thompson's "Leatherfolk" (current reading), will definitely let you know.

Neon

P.S., Feel free to PM me should you be interested in more specifics.

BiBunny said:

This is probably the oldest kink/fetish I have, so that's probably the reason it's one of the strongest, too. From the age of about 7, I've had fantasies of being tied up and coerced into doing kinky sexual things by a "nice man." In my mind, I'm always somewhere between the ages of 7 and 10, and the nice man is always in his mid-twenties to late-thirties. For the longest time, even after I discovered this lifestyle, I felt like I was very, very alone in this, mostly because of people's (understandably) adamant opposition to even mentioning anything about it.

Click to expand...

You're definitely not alone in this part, at least. I know someone very well who related almost the exact same experience to me.

Geeky literary theory addition to the discussion...

One of the books in my kink collection, is a study of very early erotica, viewed as a tool to assess societal norms of the era. The 18th century works (in prticular) were loaded with writings about girls ages 8-12, being taught about their bodies by loving, safe, older adults- usually uncles, family friends, etc. Given the religious overtones of the era, and writing style, most works were presented as a series of letters, and the theory was repeatedly presented (across multiple decades, different authors) that girls needed to experience intimacy with a trusted older adult- specifically around the age you are regressing to, Bunny- and that everything up to the point of intercourse was not only acceptable, but assisted the child in her development of a healthy self-image/positive attitude regarding intimacy. The activites were considered appropriate until the girl had been menstruating for a full year, at which point she was considered a woman, ready for dating/marriage, yadayadayada, and the activities stopped.

As inappropriate as it may be in current society, and as abhorant as pedophilia is, could the desire/need/curiosity to explore age play in this particular manner, actually be a part of a larger biological dynamic, which has gradually been erased over the centuries?

(Numerous examples of a similar concept were given for boys- older woman/younger man- but they tended to be more along the ages of 12-14.)

CutieMouse said:

Geeky literary theory addition to the discussion...

One of the books in my kink collection, is a study of very early erotica, viewed as a tool to assess societal norms of the era. The 18th century works (in prticular) were loaded with writings about girls ages 8-12, being taught about their bodies by loving, safe, older adults- usually uncles, family friends, etc. Given the religious overtones of the era, and writing style, most works were presented as a series of letters, and the theory was repeatedly presented (across multiple decades, different authors) that girls needed to experience intimacy with a trusted older adult- specifically around the age you are regressing to, Bunny- and that everything up to the point of intercourse was not only acceptable, but assisted the child in her development of a healthy self-image/positive attitude regarding intimacy. The activites were considered appropriate until the girl had been menstruating for a full year, at which point she was considered a woman, ready for dating/marriage, yadayadayada, and the activities stopped.

As inappropriate as it may be in current society, and as abhorant as pedophilia is, could the desire/need/curiosity to explore age play in this particular manner, actually be a part of a larger biological dynamic, which has gradually been erased over the centuries?

(Numerous examples of a similar concept were given for boys- older woman/younger man- but they tended to be more along the ages of 12-14.)

Click to expand...

Interesting! Of course, women were married off quite young then, so I suppose if you were going to train a girl, that's when you had to start.

I totally get the whole thing, Bunny. I'll confess something pretty embarassing, which is that I used to love to play out this stuff in chat rooms. Part of what I liked is that the guy talking to me is thinking, oh fuck, this is sooo sick, and I'm sort of pushing him there. Like...yeah, dude, that is pretty sick, have you ever thought about...<wicked cackle>

CutieMouse said:

Geeky literary theory addition to the discussion...

One of the books in my kink collection, is a study of very early erotica, viewed as a tool to assess societal norms of the era. The 18th century works (in prticular) were loaded with writings about girls ages 8-12, being taught about their bodies by loving, safe, older adults- usually uncles, family friends, etc. Given the religious overtones of the era, and writing style, most works were presented as a series of letters, and the theory was repeatedly presented (across multiple decades, different authors) that girls needed to experience intimacy with a trusted older adult- specifically around the age you are regressing to, Bunny- and that everything up to the point of intercourse was not only acceptable, but assisted the child in her development of a healthy self-image/positive attitude regarding intimacy. The activites were considered appropriate until the girl had been menstruating for a full year, at which point she was considered a woman, ready for dating/marriage, yadayadayada, and the activities stopped.

As inappropriate as it may be in current society, and as abhorant as pedophilia is, could the desire/need/curiosity to explore age play in this particular manner, actually be a part of a larger biological dynamic, which has gradually been erased over the centuries?

(Numerous examples of a similar concept were given for boys- older woman/younger man- but they tended to be more along the ages of 12-14.)

Click to expand...

Re: the age difference for sexual training of boys and girls - actually seems to make sense as boys tend to mature physically a little later than girls. Question: are these books purely erotica or do you know of any corollaries in other historical texts? Foucault, in his The History of Sexuality, traces back Western culture's desire to categorize, control, codify and eventually commodify sexuality back to this time (1700's). Am wondering if the two are connected. According to Foucault, before that time, sexual acts might be deemed "sinful" but weren't defined as "deviant" or "sick." Neon

neonflux said:

Re: the age difference for sexual training of boys and girls - actually seems to make sense as boys tend to mature physically a little later than girls. Question: are these books purely erotica or do you know of any corollaries in other historical texts? Foucault, in his The History of Sexuality, traces back Western culture's desire to categorize, control, codify and eventually commodify sexuality back to this time (1700's). Am wondering if the two are connected. According to Foucault, before that time, sexual acts might be deemed "sinful" but weren't defined as "deviant" or "sick." Neon

Click to expand...

The book is strictly an assessment of human sexuality, as viewed through erotic literature- theory being, that one's culture can be somewhat accurately assessed through contemporay fiction, therefore, the sexual norms of the period could be evaluated through the study of surviving erotica. It covers early folklore through early 20th century erotica- most of the examples of incest/pedophilia were from the 18th and very early 19th centuries; the examples given were also from European erotica (mostly English, but some French), which I suspect adds it's own spin to the topic.

You're definitely not alone, BiBunny.

I was quite the precocious little thing myself and at 8 was crushing on my Dad's friends/associates and masturbating regularly. I would be coquettish, want to sit in their laps, etc.

Now - nature or nurture? I had already been exposed/abused to sexuality as far back as three years old. By teenagers (male babysitters - my parents just didn't have a clue, unforunately), and nothing cruel or painful - petting, and some attempted fellatio.

It's a weird thing and I am of two minds of it. Perhaps if I hadn't been exposed so early my sexual "maturity" might have come later (active at 14)and might have been better. If it hadn't - maybe I wouldn't be here now.

*crickets*

babygrrl_702 said:

*crickets*

Click to expand...

No crickets- just people going "Oh crap it's mid-morning already and I've gotten jack done for work!" (At least that's what I'm thinking. LOL)

CutieMouse said:

No crickets- just people going "Oh crap it's mid-morning already and I've gotten jack done for work!" (At least that's what I'm thinking. LOL)

Click to expand...

Yeah - I know - some of us work for a living - then there's people like me who sit at a desk all day and write bad smut - and get paid nonetheless. *grin*

Reception Rawks!

I've dabbled in it. As play, it is certainly not a need, and I could get along fine never doing it again. The disturbing part of it is a lot of it does stem from abuse.

I'm also of a mind this is not that unusual in the minds of girls, just it is a taboo subject which most will not tolerate being spoken about in any form which acknowledges that it may actually be the desire of a young girl because gee, that is just promoting paedophilia. I think that is BS as I think of peadophilia as an non-consensual act initiated and coerced by the adult in the situation. Of course there wil be many who will say children and teenagers are not emotionally/mentally mature enough to be able to make that decision and know it is right for them, but how many of us have begun our D/s and SM type fantasies in years of single figure and still are just as sure it is who and what we want?

I for one had such fantasies and desires as a very young child, and I had not been exposed to any overtures or even sexuality at that age. In my early teens there was the incident with my pervy uncle which didn't come to anything because I avoided it knowing it would not be possible without getting caught, that it would not be acceptable, and a lot of fear of 'what if'....but I fuelled fantasies with that one short moment for a lifetime. In my mid teens when I finally did become sexually active, it was usually with older men as in 35+ with whom I was most inclined to mess around with, have one night stands, tease and entice etc. LOL, at just 16 I was regularly dating a 37 year old man much to my sister's distress because she wanted him herself and he wasn't interested. I am still amazed my mother let me out the door with him liked him and actually encouraged the relationship given her puritanical ways, but then she also knew later on that I lived with a man and yet on my wedding day gave me the talk about what to expect on the weddding night...what can I say, my mother loves denial.

In all these instances of playing with much older men, I was never thinking myself older and was more than happy to let them do wicked things to me and get off on the idea I was so willing. It was sad once I got into my 20's and even though I could still get older men with no trouble, it was not the same dynamic as before, but still fun. I'm not sure how you can make it more believeable for yourself in role play now, but I wouldn't waste time feeling guilty about something you do whichy is in no way wrong. I often wonder that if it were more acceptable for people to talk about their desires, perhaps explore in safe and non-abusive ways which did not involve unsuitable and underage partners, if there would be less peadophilia in the world. It has been shown time and again that complete repression of anything just makes it more of a problem with more serious and negative side effects...making it unmentionable makes it highly dangerous as we are seeing every day in the news.

Catalina

CutieMouse said:

Geeky literary theory addition to the discussion...

<snip>

As inappropriate as it may be in current society, and as abhorant as pedophilia is, could the desire/need/curiosity to explore age play in this particular manner, actually be a part of a larger biological dynamic, which has gradually been erased over the centuries?

(Numerous examples of a similar concept were given for boys- older woman/younger man- but they tended to be more along the ages of 12-14.)

Click to expand...

This is intriguing. I vaguely recall reading a couple of pieces of erotica in a college class on Victorian era literature but not well enough to comment on how or whether they fit into this particular model. My best guess is that such a rational approach to teaching young people about their sexuality was an attractive theme at that time because of the rampant restrictions on sexuality that society enforced.

I have always been much more attracted to older men, not just the way they act but the way they LOOK is a real turn-on for me. I love crow's feet, harshly tanned skin by years of going outside without sunscreen, callouses, gray hair, even bald guys...(well, ESPECIALLY bald guys).

When I was 18, my first 'real' relationship was with a man 17 years older than me. For those of you who are mathematically challenged, he was 35. We were together for almost 4 years...so, I guess I have a big age thing too.

Good on you for starting the thread hon

It's never something I've tried or given much thought to, I must admit. I dount though. that if you dug deep with people, that its all that unusual. Just one of those sort of fantasies that people are reluctant to discuss.

Crystal

Wow, everyone's thrown out some fascinating food for thought. CM, your theory, I think, is a sound one. Other than being the nerdy little kid who'd rather sit in her room with a book that most people would consider way too advanced for her, I had a fairly normal and happy childhood. I wasn't abused in any way, so I know it can't possibly stem from that. I was (and still am) very close to my father, though not in a sexual way at all. I could just talk to him about most anything, and he'd be understanding. Maybe part of it comes from not a sexual desire for my father, but a desire to be taught about things by a strong and caring man like my father. I don't know.

Cat, I agree with what you've said, too. I really think it's a deeper thing than just mere roleplay. At that age, I couldn't have been able to carry on any kind of meaningful relationship, but I was sure that was what I wanted. In 15 or so years, that hasn't changed at all.

This is turning into a really interesting discussion. Keep it coming.

The Police

No..not those who monitor our activity, but the group who produced "Don't Stand so Close to Me".

I have taught, and know those who also have been involved in the teaching profession. This issue is a nightmare, some have had affairs, and others have left because of the unwanted attentions of pupils.

I understand and accept the issue of informed consent and maturity..but it is false to say that kids suddenly become aware sexually at the age of consent. But in our societies, the whole subject is so fraught with taboos, that guilt becomes mandatory.

Thus, while sex has this scary aspect...it will become even more attractive to some, and damaging for others.

For me, ageplay has been a way of dealing with my own repressed childhood and my experiences as a teacher. Without that outlet, I would still be feeling as guilty as hell for some of my thoughts.

All I can say is, to misquote Maurice Chevalier;

"Thank goodness for girls who are happy to play at being little girls."

I have to say I am the opposite. As a child I was very sexual (playing dr with girls and boys by age 6 or so, using a hairbrush handle inside a female friend in 2nd grade, etc) But old men totally disgusted me. My grandfather had his office in a in-law cottage on his grounds. He used to have all us grandchildren out there- sometimes one at a time, sometimes a few of us together to show us innocent magic tricks or read or tell us old stories. He also used to show us porn while we sat on his lap. He had a foot locker of all sorts of porn and gadgets. I remember him giving lots of attention to my two older female cousins (about 10 and 12 yrs old at the time) and a male cousin about my age (8ish) I was extremely jealous. A year or so later while I was sitting near him he was telling me that I was a nice girl, that he loved my older cousins because they were beautiful but that he loved me because I was a good girl. I was even more jeolous.

When I was 13 my male cousin molested me. I didn't tell anyone. He told me that he was just doing what our grandfather had taught him. I later found out that my female cousins had been molested by my grandfather also. My first emotion when I heard this was jealousy--that he didn't think I was beautiful enough to molest.

To make a long story a little shorter all of my boyfriends including my husband have been either a few yrs younger, my age or absolutely not more than 2 yrs older than me. Until I met my Dom. He is 12 years older than me. I knew he was older when we first started chatting on line but I didn't know how much older. He told me before we met for the first time that he was at least 10 yrs older. When he asked me to call him Daddy it made me cringe a little at first. But then in time I realized that a D/g dynamic was really what I wanted. I now find myself embracing the age difference. Though I admit getting pervy pms from old men still makes me cringe and delete.

I hope this wasn't off-topic.

I found it really interesting that interest in men older than we are is common to me and my husband. He likes them somewhat older than I do, too.

For me, the first thing I need resolved is if we're talking about our adult sexual fantasies and explorations with fellow adults, are we talking about whether or not we felt these urges as children, or if we're actually talking about these fantasies/urges as adults with actual children. All three have been eldued to in varying posts but none of been pinned down.

Personally, I believe "age play" is very much a function of what we were as children. I think it is more an enviornmental condition than a genteic one. I got shit to base that off of as far as studies or stats, just my opinion. There is something about the attraction that we as individuals identify with. Whatever the role, whatever the attraction or motiviation, it is something that trips a trigger in us as individuals.

Exploring such fantasies/curiosities with other adults whom we trust takes a lot of courage and those who do should prepared for whatever other mental/emotional triggers they unexpected uncover.

I'm not at all down on the OP, at least as I understand her post. That being someone who is trying to confront this real part of her and trying to work through what it all means in a healthy, positive way.

That said, and yes, there has to be one in every edgy discussion...

catalina_francisco said:

I'm also of a mind this is not that unusual in the minds of girls, just it is a taboo subject which most will not tolerate being spoken about in any form which acknowledges that it may actually be the desire of a young girl because gee, that is just promoting paedophilia. I think that is BS as I think of peadophilia as an non-consensual act initiated and coerced by the adult in the situation. Of course there wil be many who will say children and teenagers are not emotionally/mentally mature enough to be able to make that decision and know it is right for them, but how many of us have begun our D/s and SM type fantasies in years of single figure and still are just as sure it is who and what we want?

Click to expand...

That is one of the most disturbing and scary posts I've ever read. To even elude, or vaguely consider, that a child, despite their inclinations and desires, could POSSIBLY be considered a consenting party is absurd at best.

As a former police officer who trained in and encountered far too much child sexual abuse, as a parent, and hell even as a kinkster who was masturbating at such a young age I didn't even ejaculate, I completely and totally dismiss this notion. I don't know what the "magical" age for consent and I'm not going to argue that as yes, I do believe individuals vary. But I also know some line must be drawn and an age agreed upon to best portect the mass majority. A child is a child. They have ZERO concept of consequences. Hell, they have ZERO concept of the day after tomorrow, let alone long term impacts.

When I was 16 I had sex with a 25 year old "woman." Man, was I hit or what with the boys? Damn right I was. Yep, I was the shit. But ya know what, 20+ years later I look back on that experience with not much more than disgust. There wasn't anything right or magical about that experience, no matter how I felt at the time. And yeah we did it more than once. Looking back, it was just an extremely horny teenager get his dick wet. There wasn't any real passion or anything, even though I was sure there was at the time. As I've grown older and exlored and learned more and more about myself, I realise that my most precious and guarded sexual encounters have been with those with whom I've felt a true deep connection. And there is no way I could have felt that in my early years.

And for the record, I was married at 18, to an older woman, and we'll be celebrating our 19th anniversary soon.

Netzach made an excellent point about regression and transformation, let's not, Catalina, confuse the two.

Okay, sorry, but that post bothered me.

Back to the discussion...

"

sweet, but already kinked little girl who just doesn't realize how deep her feelings run"

Click to expand...

This is a fairly accurate description of me...and of some of the type of play i desire, although i never give the little girl a specific age....she just is...