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I am *NOT* a switch!

Chicklet

Chicklet

plays well with self
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Posts
12,302
So I've broken out into the community, and I have had a few weird observations.

Before, I never really understood what people meant when they described themselves as 'natural submissives' or as having been submissive their whole lives. But one thing I'm noticing in the weekly group is that all the submissive females seem really quiet, really meek, shy, and well, weak. They're frail, they're shy, they hardly talk. Everything about their demeanor suggest that they are submissive.

I am not at all like that. I'm shy, but I'm bossy and assertive. I smack people around, I laugh loud, I crack jokes. I'm myself. And I identify as a submissive.

A lot of the people at the munches keep insisting that I'm a switch. But I'm not.

I want people's thoughts and experiences. Is it really that common for the submissive to be so meek? Maybe because I've only really met up with dominant people I've never been confused like this. I know there's nothing wrong with me, or them, but it's amazing to me to be so different. I sort of expected to identify with the submissives more than the dominants, but instead I find myself having conversations with the dominants only. I feel like I ought to stay away from the subs.

Thoughts?
 
It's weird but that is the case often times. It seems like many submissives feel like they have to be submissive in real life in order to be that way in the bedroom, which isn't true. I've known quite a few girls who are bossy as hell IRL but then get them in the bedroom and they won't say a damn word other than to address me >.< That is just from my observations in the local scene.
 
Chicklet said:
So I've broken out into the community, and I have had a few weird observations.

Before, I never really understood what people meant when they described themselves as 'natural submissives' or as having been submissive their whole lives. But one thing I'm noticing in the weekly group is that all the submissive females seem really quiet, really meek, shy, and well, weak. They're frail, they're shy, they hardly talk. Everything about their demeanor suggest that they are submissive.

I am not at all like that. I'm shy, but I'm bossy and assertive. I smack people around, I laugh loud, I crack jokes. I'm myself. And I identify as a submissive.

A lot of the people at the munches keep insisting that I'm a switch. But I'm not.

I want people's thoughts and experiences. Is it really that common for the submissive to be so meek? Maybe because I've only really met up with dominant people I've never been confused like this. I know there's nothing wrong with me, or them, but it's amazing to me to be so different. I sort of expected to identify with the submissives more than the dominants, but instead I find myself having conversations with the dominants only. I feel like I ought to stay away from the subs.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've also started going to a group for the first time, and I have an outgoing personality and I identify as a submissive. No one has insisted I am anything, but a couple of people did get a bit of a Toppy vibe from me. I know, shocking. :rolleyes: Anyway, they'll get over it.
 
I think there is a perception, probably encouraged by internet porn to be more so, that submissives are what you have experienced, and thus a lot of women who identify as submissive adopt the behaviour to fit the stereotype mostly out of fear they will be challenged and labelled a pretender if they show their real self. I think it is sad, and a huge misconception. In our world, submissive means someone with strength, adaptable, someone with a personality and character and backbone, and someone who knows what they want and are not afraid to going in search f it. By being such, they are then better able to serve under any circumstances instead of falling into a fit of vapours the moment they are outside their comfort zone or expected to do something in the line of service.....many prefer the Dominant to serve their needs. Even the male subs we have played with have been of this type, forthcoming, confident, articulate, have an opinion, creative, and more so, want to serve. Be who you are and don't let people shove you into a becoming a stereotype...it is their hangup, not yours.

Catalina :catroar:
 
The last munch I attended, I'm not sure anyone could really pin me down on what I was (based on looks- black tank, jeans, 5" stilettos), because I kept getting confusedly asked if I was a sub or a Domme. I spoke to several people about being interested in exploring Topping. The response (across the board) was "You know bottoms make the best Tops!" to which I'd replay "Oh I have no interest in giving up my submission, I like it to much- I just want to better understand the Top position, so I can have it as an occasional option."

Pause.
Pause.
Pause.

"Well... that's okay, too!"

*chuckle*
 
Chicklet said:
So I've broken out into the community, and I have had a few weird observations.

Before, I never really understood what people meant when they described themselves as 'natural submissives' or as having been submissive their whole lives. But one thing I'm noticing in the weekly group is that all the submissive females seem really quiet, really meek, shy, and well, weak. They're frail, they're shy, they hardly talk. Everything about their demeanor suggest that they are submissive.

I am not at all like that. I'm shy, but I'm bossy and assertive. I smack people around, I laugh loud, I crack jokes. I'm myself. And I identify as a submissive.

A lot of the people at the munches keep insisting that I'm a switch. But I'm not.

I want people's thoughts and experiences. Is it really that common for the submissive to be so meek? Maybe because I've only really met up with dominant people I've never been confused like this. I know there's nothing wrong with me, or them, but it's amazing to me to be so different. I sort of expected to identify with the submissives more than the dominants, but instead I find myself having conversations with the dominants only. I feel like I ought to stay away from the subs.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

1. I've had people make all kinds of assumptions about me based on general social demeanor.

2. It's an act. I will bet you money in many of those cases it's an act or maybe a sense of protocol.

3. I tend to hang much more comfortably with submissives, but at the events I've gone to they tend to be more like you and less on pins and needles and posturing how they think people want them to be than the Dom/mes- funny.
 
I had the same sort of experience when I first ventured out to munches. The subbies were always off "cowering" somewhere. Since I was new I thought that's the way it was supposed to be so I tried it too and was soo unhappy. Now I just act like me. Just because I talk out loud and am the occasional smartass doesn't mean I'm not respectful or submissive. Master says he'd be bored with a meek and quite submissive.
 
im not meek and quiet, but definitly submissive.... i wonder if it was was just the local protocol...
 
I'm quiet and shy, but not weak. In fact, I'm one of the strongest chicks I know. I'm the kind of girl who blends into the scenery most of the time, just because I don't like being the center of attention. Quite frankly, being around and having to talk to people I don't know scares the living shit out of me. And I am a switch. I'm a quiet, unassuming bottom and a quiet unassuming Top (which can be quite disconcerting to bottoms, btw). I don't think there's necessarily a correlation.
 
catalina_francisco said:
Be who you are and don't let people shove you into a becoming a stereotype...it is their hangup, not yours.
Click to expand...

No worries about that on my part.

People can either accept me for who I am, or #### off. The ones that don't like me aren't getting in my pants with a cock, a cane, a dildo, or anything.

All these posts are great.
 
Chicklet said:
<Snip>Before, I never really understood what people meant when they described themselves as 'natural submissives' or as having been submissive their whole lives. But one thing I'm noticing in the weekly group is that all the submissive females seem really quiet, really meek, shy, and well, weak. They're frail, they're shy, they hardly talk. Everything about their demeanor suggest that they are submissive.

I am not at all like that. I'm shy, but I'm bossy and assertive. I smack people around, I laugh loud, I crack jokes. I'm myself. And I identify as a submissive.

A lot of the people at the munches keep insisting that I'm a switch. But I'm not.

I want people's thoughts and experiences. Is it really that common for the submissive to be so meek? Maybe because I've only really met up with dominant people I've never been confused like this. I know there's nothing wrong with me, or them, but it's amazing to me to be so different. I sort of expected to identify with the submissives more than the dominants, but instead I find myself having conversations with the dominants only. I feel like I ought to stay away from the subs.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
In the groups I associated with, both in Florida and in GA/TN, there were a number of Gorean types (both Masters and slaves) and non-Goreans. The Gorean women (since in the Gor mythos, women can only be slaves and men only Masters) invariably were as you describe. Among the non-Gorean couples, there were approximately an equal number of submissives who followed the same pattern and those who did not.

Personally, I tended to stay away from all the Goreans, male and female, and the subs who emulated that conduct, because I'm not comfortable with that kind of Master-slave or D/s pattern. My comfort zone includes - indeed, prefers - pyls who are confident within themselves, who may be "bossy and assertive," "smack people around" (in a playful sense), "laugh loud," and "crack jokes," knowing and being themselves. People (PYL *or* pyl) who met that description were the ones with whom I and my submissive (wife) hung out with, socialized with outside the scene, and liked. There were groups available that consisted either entirely or mostly of Goreans and those who consciously or unconsciously emulate at least some facets of the Gorean mythos; we pretty much stayed away from them. For social discourse and intercourse (not the sexual kind) to be successful for us, we required people - of all sexes and PYL/pyl status - who pretty well fit the description above.

IMNSHO&E, as you get more involved with the community and other group(ing)s, you will almost certainly find others - PYL/pyl - who meet your description/pattern, or substantial portions of it - and will probably find you feel most comfortable interacting with them. It's a fascinating journey you've embarked on, to find others of like mind and bent... Bon voyage!
 
Meekness does not equal submission. None of my male submissives are meek.
There may be meek male submissives in the world, but I do not care to own them.

Being bossy and being dominant are not the same thing either.
 
I have never been even close to being meek or timid. I probably wouldn't know shyness if it reached out and bit me in the ass. And I would probably be very uncomfortable in a group where I was made to feel that real subs are meek and timid. lol
 
I'm pretty freaking social and assertive seeming. I think a lot of people assume I'm a Dom or Top. That doesn't bother me in the least. They can ask if they want to know. Of course I'm not looking for someone to get involved with either.

I have yet to feel that "Dom" aura from anyone else. I think that's a damn myth I'm going to have to give up.

Pretty much everyone else seems pretty submissive in social situations and / or just strike me as nice and open.

Fury :rose:
 
It is difficult when you are seeking a submissive experience, and your counterparts are all, eye's down, hands behind back, not speaking till spoken to. OH pullease!
I suspect that this is how new people perceive submissives should act. And so they imitate what they have read. But there are many dominants who find this a attractive quality. Less work load probably to the newly dominant.

Personally, i like people alive, and happening. be that a bdsm play partner, a life partner, a friend, in all walks of life, i want a personality that's evident. I want intellegent conversation 'with' someone, not 'at' them.
Im not very patient with shy people. In some ways, i resent them passing the buck when it comes to holding up 50% of the conversation. But that's just me.

pandoravampire.
 
Chicklet said:
So I've broken out into the community, and I have had a few weird observations.

Before, I never really understood what people meant when they described themselves as 'natural submissives' or as having been submissive their whole lives. But one thing I'm noticing in the weekly group is that all the submissive females seem really quiet, really meek, shy, and well, weak. They're frail, they're shy, they hardly talk. Everything about their demeanor suggest that they are submissive.

I am not at all like that. I'm shy, but I'm bossy and assertive. I smack people around, I laugh loud, I crack jokes. I'm myself. And I identify as a submissive.

A lot of the people at the munches keep insisting that I'm a switch. But I'm not.

I want people's thoughts and experiences. Is it really that common for the submissive to be so meek? Maybe because I've only really met up with dominant people I've never been confused like this. I know there's nothing wrong with me, or them, but it's amazing to me to be so different. I sort of expected to identify with the submissives more than the dominants, but instead I find myself having conversations with the dominants only. I feel like I ought to stay away from the subs.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I went out with a new woman friend (only) for coffee the other day - she's been in the (queer) Leatherwomen's community for a while now, and she told me how little she likes it when younger subs approach her asking to play - feels that it is definitely against protocol. I also know a women couple from TX who followsthose protocols in all BDSM situations to a tee - but I think as much to protect the sub who is naturally shy in social situations, as for any other reason.

Even for people who are into the old protocols, it seems a little out of place at a munch, which is supposed to be an informal gathering that allows folks to get to know one another without the expectations of play. Are all of the subs you are meeting partnered, btw? And are you finding the retiring behavior to be true for both men and women who ID as submissive?

It does seem a little weird to me, but then I'm from San Francisco, LOL...

~ Neon
 
actually, i would love to have the experience of being around a bunch of other submissives with a demeanor similar to mine....shy, quiet, meek. with the exception of a couple of private M/s groups, most of the submissives you'll find in the public community around here are playful, far from shy, assertive, confident, independent, etc. and we don't even go to munches, these are just the people we meet at clubs and private D/s gatherings. these people meet me and my Master, and don't know what to make of us. they don't understand why i stay glued to his side, almost using him as a shield between me and the rest of the world, don't speak unless spoken to, and don't run around laughing flirting and teasing like they do. frankly it kinda sucks. lol

as far as the idea that all of these submissives are simply putting on an act, maybe they are, maybe they aren't, who knows? but why does there seem to be this backlash against quiet, meek submissives, as if we're the garbage of the world that no Dominant worth his salt should want?
 
ownedsubgal said:
actually, i would love to have the experience of being around a bunch of other submissives with a demeanor similar to mine....shy, quiet, meek. with the exception of a couple of private M/s groups, most of the submissives you'll find in the public community around here are playful, far from shy, assertive, confident, independent, etc. and we don't even go to munches, these are just the people we meet at clubs and private D/s gatherings. these people meet me and my Master, and don't know what to make of us. they don't understand why i stay glued to his side, almost using him as a shield between me and the rest of the world, don't speak unless spoken to, and don't run around laughing flirting and teasing like they do. frankly it kinda sucks. lol

as far as the idea that all of these submissives are simply putting on an act, maybe they are, maybe they aren't, who knows? but why does there seem to be this backlash against quiet, meek submissives, as if we're the garbage of the world that no Dominant worth his salt should want?
Click to expand...

I think people come in all kinds of varieties, I just doubt the likelihood of every submissive in a given venue being shy or quiet. I certainly have nothing against people who *are* - and I certainly respect people who are being who they are whatever that might be. I think fronting is lame, whether you're fronting being outgoing or being shy. Out of me, M, my slave, and my stud, none of us are social adept extroverts unless we're being PAID to be or there's some really compelling reason. It's a skill and it's tiring.
 
Last edited:
Netzach said:
I think people come in all kinds of varieties, I just doubt the likelihood of every submissive in a given venue being shy or quiet. I certainly have nothing against people who *are* - and I certainly respect people who are being who they are whatever that might be. I think fronting is lame, whether you're fronting being outgoing or being shy. Out of me, M, my slave, and my stud, none of us are social adept extroverts unless we're being PAID to be or there's some really compelling reason. It's a skill and it's tiring.
Click to expand...

Netzach, i agree that fronting is lame, whatever the reason. heck, i even have a problem with roleplay. any environment of falseness just makes me feel uncomfortable, it's a pet peeve. you're probably right in that not all of these submissives were being their true selves. and if that's the case, that's rather sad. however what i find more upsetting is this trend (which is not recent btw, i suppose i've just had my fill of it) of cutting down submissives who are naturally shy and meek, who are not the roaring, assertive, confident independent she-wolves that every woman is apparently supposed to be these days, submissive or not. comments like "who wants to dominate a dishrag" spring to mind.
 
BiBunny said:
I'm quiet and shy, but not weak. In fact, I'm one of the strongest chicks I know. I'm the kind of girl who blends into the scenery most of the time, just because I don't like being the center of attention. Quite frankly, being around and having to talk to people I don't know scares the living shit out of me. <snip>
Click to expand...

I'm quiet and shy too. In large groups of people I don't know, I tend to hang on Master's arm and try not to feel too nervous :) However in a small group of friends I'm a lot more outgoing and confident. It all depends on the situation :)
 
ownedsubgal said:
Netzach, i agree that fronting is lame, whatever the reason. heck, i even have a problem with roleplay. any environment of falseness just makes me feel uncomfortable, it's a pet peeve. you're probably right in that not all of these submissives were being their true selves. and if that's the case, that's rather sad. however what i find more upsetting is this trend (which is not recent btw, i suppose i've just had my fill of it) of cutting down submissives who are naturally shy and meek, who are not the roaring, assertive, confident independent she-wolves that every woman is apparently supposed to be these days, submissive or not. comments like "who wants to dominate a dishrag" spring to mind.
Click to expand...

I wanted to say real quick that it's not a matter of being uncomfortable being with shy subs, I'd be uncomfortable if they were ALL that way, cause I'd be worried people are expecting me to act that way, and looking down on me when I can't. Quite frankly, I get along better with shy people. All of my best friends through life were/are shy.
 
Bandit58 said:
I'm quiet and shy too. In large groups of people I don't know, I tend to hang on Master's arm and try not to feel too nervous :) However in a small group of friends I'm a lot more outgoing and confident. It all depends on the situation :)
Click to expand...

Me, too. Amongst my group of friends, I'm the one who won't shut up. Amongst a group of people I don't know or don't know well, I'm the one everyone thinks is weird because I don't talk much.
 
BiBunny said:
Me, too. Amongst my group of friends, I'm the one who won't shut up. Amongst a group of people I don't know or don't know well, I'm the one everyone thinks is weird because I don't talk much.
Click to expand...

The weird thing about me is the shyer I feel the more I talk. It's a nervous habit, like chewing nails and stuff. I get myself in trouble cause I'm not even thinking of what I'm saying, I just chatter. To tell the truth I'm shy in a different way. *shrugs*
 
I'm very shy but very few people would guess that or be able to tell that about me.
 
I am a gregarious loudmouth who loves to tease people and crack jokes. When I get around men that I find attractive, though, I am a sly under-the-lashes corset-strung damsel in distress. Pathetic, I know.

Around dominant women I get very odd tingly feelings in my private no-no place but I can't seem to wrap my head around having my face in any girl crotch, so I don't ever do anything about it. :rolleyes:

Around dominant men, I'm still a gregarious loudmouth, only I generally tend to do what I'm told. Generally. My boss, for example, confuses the hell out of me, because even though no one else ever does what he tells them to do, I follow his lead like a puppy and constantly defer to him. My co-workers laugh at me because of it.

Just in general I have a very outgoing personality, but I've never been confused for a switch or Domme before.
 
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