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Old 04-21-2008, 07:44 PM   #2576
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incest? not in the book store? are you crazy?

TEX UH, Jim, have you ever been in a book story or a place that sells books? Did you see the shelves of Romance novels? Did ya ever see even one loving wives story or incest story? If you actually believe that last paragraph you wrote then you are seriously whacked and deserve the fantasy world you inhabit.

DK You know I was all set to write something scathing since half of what I write is Romance.


TEX, DK I believe you missed my point on ROMANCE stories…

I neither dislike nor disparage ROMANCE story writers. In fact I myself have often been referred to by my fans as the “King of Incestuous Romance”. I’m a sucker for a happy ending. My stories all end with the handsome, big cocked lead falling in love with his beautiful sister/mother/daughter/niece/son? and living happily ever after.

You haven’t yet grasped that what I don’t like is ROMANCE stories winning an inordinate number of contest prizes simply based on the fact ROMANCE readers by nature vote higher than other category readers. That’s it!

I hate to see critics and intellectuals disparage ROMANCE authors in the real world…authors who write in the most competitive market for often very small returns. They are the true working stiffs out there…

And that’s why it pisses me off to see you AHers belittle “popular” authors in other categories and make fun of their readers on this site in your oh so smug way.

All readers are good as far as I’m concerned. I don’t care what their motivation or education is…

My theory is: If he or she’s reading Scouries today maybe he or she will be reading Shakespeare tomorrow…which really isn’t that great a leap… see below. mr TEX, it seems that you can buy “incest” stories at your bookstore…Shakespeare, Dickens, Joyce, James, Conrad…and what about the Greek myths…Oedipus maybe…

Patriarchy and Incest from Shakespeare to Joyce
by Jane M. Ford. 202 pgs.

Using Shakespeare's incest plots as a backdrop, Jane Ford traces the incest theme in novels by Charles Dickens, Henry James, Joseph Conrad, and James Joyce, exploring in particular the father-daughter-suitor triangle.
As Ford demonstrates, three patterns predominate: the father eliminates the suitor and retains the daughter; the father submits to outside authority and relinquishes the daughter; or the father resolves the incest threat by choosing the daughter's suitor. Ford provides evidence that the fictive characters' incest conflicts often mirror the writer's own incest dilemmas, whether subliminal or not, and she points to textual evidence for the occurrence of actual incest in The Golden Bowl and Ulysses. In readings that break with traditional criticism, Ford maintains that each of the five writers wrote final works that seemed to return to a plot of retention of the daughter by the father.
Ford's book extends an important issue in 20th-century psychology into the study of major works of literature written in English.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:51 PM   #2577
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Originally Posted by starrkers View Post
Once again, Jim, I find myself nodding and agreeing with much of what you wrote here. Romance stories here range from well-written to bloody awful, just as in any other category. It's the readers that are more forgiving.
[start soapbox]
As usual, Jim took my comments out of context. The keyword in my statement was "Generally".

And I agree, as in other categories, there are duds in Romance as well as every other category.

Jim has complained about Romance category winners for months now. In general these winning pieces have been very well written, and unlike his own work, they don't rely on "Oh, Daddy, it's so big..." to prop up the plot.

And as far as the votes go, there is a 1 to 5 scale, and I feel that there is place for all 5 possibilities, and I wholeheartedly disagree with removing 1's and 2's just for the sake of removing them. Each reader is entitled to their opinion, and their vote, and their vote, no matter what it is, should count.
[/end soapbox]
 

Old 04-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #2578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drksideofthemoon View Post
[start soapbox]
As usual, Jim took my comments out of context. The keyword in my statement was "Generally".

And I agree, as in other categories, there are duds in Romance as well as every other category.

Jim has complained about Romance category winners for months now. In general these winning pieces have been very well written, and unlike his own work, they don't rely on "Oh, Daddy, it's so big..." to prop up the plot.

And as far as the votes go, there is a 1 to 5 scale, and I feel that there is place for all 5 possibilities, and I wholeheartedly disagree with removing 1's and 2's just for the sake of removing them. Each reader is entitled to their opinion, and their vote, and their vote, no matter what it is, should count.
[/end soapbox]
I don't doubt for an instant that he took you out of context. But most of what he said rang true, hence my post.

And on voting, it seems, we're all in agreement
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:56 PM   #2579
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Originally Posted by scouries View Post

You haven’t yet grasped that what I don’t like is ROMANCE stories winning an inordinate number of contest prizes simply based on the fact ROMANCE readers by nature vote higher than other category readers. That’s it!

I hate to see critics and intellectuals disparage ROMANCE authors in the real world…authors who write in the most competitive market for often very small returns. They are the true working stiffs out there…

And that’s why it pisses me off to see you AHers belittle “popular” authors in other categories and make fun of their readers on this site in your oh so smug way.

I readily concede that there is difference between the categories on voting. Personally, for the contests, I would like to see a seperate category just for the contest stories. Maybe that would level out the playing field a bit.

Jim, you're an AH'er yourself. And I don't think I've seen anyone belittling "popular" authors.
 

Old 04-21-2008, 07:59 PM   #2580
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Out of curiosity (and obviously too lazy to go through the records) has anyone done a breakdown of the contest winners by category?

Why do I think that this has been done?
 

Old 04-21-2008, 08:02 PM   #2581
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Originally Posted by davidwatts View Post
Out of curiosity (and obviously too lazy to go through the records) has anyone done a breakdown of the contest winners by category?

Why do I think that this has been done?
Yep, Jim (Scouries) has done it, I'm too lazy to scroll back and look for it, but I imagine he'll be more than happy to repost his results.
 

Old 04-21-2008, 08:05 PM   #2582
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Please tell me I didn't just see scouries compare himself to Shakespeare
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:13 PM   #2583
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You are so right, he just compared himself to Shakespeare and maybe his fans consider him the next best thing to sliced bread. I just find it a shame that he has to downgrade others so much.
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:24 PM   #2584
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Originally Posted by drksideofthemoon View Post
Yep, Jim (Scouries) has done it, I'm too lazy to scroll back and look for it, but I imagine he'll be more than happy to repost his results.

Good. I'm interested in seeing that.

In the meantime, I see that the How To Contest is coming up soon. Are you allowed to enter that contest and put the story in Romance?
 

Old 04-21-2008, 08:29 PM   #2585
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Good. I'm interested in seeing that.

In the meantime, I see that the How To Contest is coming up soon. Are you allowed to enter that contest and put the story in Romance?
All How-To stories have to be in the How-To category, and they have to be instructional. You have some leeway with style, but they aren't supposed to be stories.
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:33 PM   #2586
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Just kidding. Should have put a in there.
 

Old 04-21-2008, 09:20 PM   #2587
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Aha, now I know the sweeps are bogus and cutting illegitimately into the voting. A week ago I contacted another poster and read and voted a decent score on a story this poster had received no votes on. I'm told that yesterday the vote was swept away. There is no ip or alt connection between me and that poster, who is posting from the other side of the world from me, and nothing malicious in the voting. So, the sweeping is bogus; it's all just capricious renumbering.
 

Old 04-21-2008, 09:32 PM   #2588
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Its your lucky day Mr Watts. And yes Brian I do have the stats. This is at least the third or fourth time I’ve posted this post. Unfortunately Gabby hasn’t yet incorporated the 2007 statistics into my figures but rest assured there was no major change in the results.


CONTESTS


ON CONTESTS #1 On Fixing Literotica’s Monthly Contest System


The Problem:

Did you know that, of the 72 monthly contest winners (1st , 2nd, and 3rd places) announced for 2005 and 2006, 35 were ‘Romance’ category stories and 19 were ‘Novels and Novellas’ category stories? In other words 75% of the winners came from two categories that represent only about 9% of the stories submitted. And to a large extent the winners in these categories were a chapter 2 or 3 or some other later chapter in a series and usually the winners have under 100 votes and limited reads. What the hell’s going on?

The seven categories with the most submitted stories in them (Erotic Coupling, Incest, Loving Wives, BDSM, Non-Consent, Group, and Exhibitionism), more than 67% of the stories submitted to Literotica, some 20,000 stories in 2005 and 2006, produced a pitiful total of only 3 winners (4% of winners) over the two years. Shee-it, can’t we spread the wealth around some?

Scouries Suggestion to Bring Fairness, Honesty and Good Will to the Monthly Contests

1 – Each month 4 prizes would be awarded
2 – One prize would go to the highest rated story, one to the most viewed story, one to the story with the most votes, and the final prize would go to the story which received the most comments.
3 – A category can only win once every quarter (in other words if an Incest or Romance story wins in January, no Incest or Romance stories can win in February or March)
4 – An author can only win once a year

The hoped for results of this system:
- A fairer distribution of the prizes over all the Literotica categories;
- A much broader group of writers will have a chance to win a prize;
- A recognition on our part that stories that are popular with our readers might be good choices as winners. Maybe, just maybe, resulting in more attention from our readers to contest winning stories;
- An improvement in the mental health of Literotica’s authors. Not living and dying with every vote almost certainly will reduce the level of paranoia among us;
-Happiness will reign in the kingdom


jrs

p.s. last years HOW TO CONTEST actually included the disqualification of one story that was entered by the brilliant sarahhh. Apparantly it was too humorous for our leaders. Other stories, less sucessfully funny, were allowed in.
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Old 04-21-2008, 10:00 PM   #2589
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one to the most viewed story,
Never going to happen. There are millions of programs that will hit a link rapidfire. This would result in widespread abuse of these programs, grinding the entire site to a complete halt.

Quote:
one to the story with the most votes,
Also too easy to exploit, without any computer knowledge at all. Write a Loving Wives story. The male lead should be a black man with a fourteen inch cock who speaks in an absurdly stereotypical manner. The female cheater should be a waif of a blonde white woman with 40DDs who screams the whole time about how awesome his big black mamba is. Make her husband a wormy little nobody who ends up licking up the sloppy seconds and loving every minute of it without ever touching his own wife otherwise and the black guy making fun of him the whole time. Make sure there's plenty of spit-lubed anal to both the wife and husband. Throw in lots of ellipses, dialogue no porn star could utter without tasting bile, and at least a dozen occurances of I'M CCCCUUUUUMMMMMIIIIINNNNNGGGG!!!! Preface it with an author's note that says "If you don't like it, read something else anonymous assholes!"

Hundreds of one votes within the first three seconds of appearance. To pump up the votes, post a snotty PC response to every detractor.

Change the character names, the location, and little else. Post as a new story the next month.

Quote:
and the final prize would go to the story which received the most comments.
See above.

As to the rest of it... *shrug* All it does is shift things around and rotate them. It has no more chance of producing the best stories of the month than what's in place right now.
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:18 PM   #2590
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You're wasting your time

I think, Scouries, you are wasting your time, energy, and talent here.

You need to start your own web site.

You make many valid points and have lots of good ideas. Only, those in power are not listening, reading or caring about your ideas. It is a pity.

You know, competition brings change. Perhaps, you should compete with Literotica. I'd join your site.

You could call it, let me think, what's a good name for it, gee, I don't know....I have it! Eureka!

"Scouries World!"

What do you think? I like it.

You're wasting your time, Jim. You're too good for this place. You're one of the better writers here.

Me? I'm just a hack having the time of my life writing. This, Literotica site makes me write every day. Otherwise, I wouldn't and my thoughts would be fleeting and never go anywhere.

Start your own site. I dare you.

Your fan,

Freddie
 

Old 04-22-2008, 12:25 AM   #2591
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I think, Scouries, you are wasting your time, energy, and talent here.

You need to start your own web site.

You make many valid points and have lots of good ideas. Only, those in power are not listening, reading or caring about your ideas. It is a pity.

You know, competition brings change. Perhaps, you should compete with Literotica. I'd join your site.

You could call it, let me think, what's a good name for it, gee, I don't know....I have it! Eureka!

"Scouries World!"

What do you think? I like it.

You're wasting your time, Jim. You're too good for this place. You're one of the better writers here.

Me? I'm just a hack having the time of my life writing. This, Literotica site makes me write every day. Otherwise, I wouldn't and my thoughts would be fleeting and never go anywhere.

Start your own site. I dare you.

Your fan,

Freddie

Oh, dear. *wipes streaming eyes*
You just don't get it, do you, sweet innocent Freddie?

If he started his own site, he'd have to face the reality of his "popularity". How could he cry foul when he built it himself?
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:58 AM   #2592
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Oh, dear. *wipes streaming eyes*
You just don't get it, do you, sweet innocent Freddie?

If he started his own site, he'd have to face the reality of his "popularity". How could he cry foul when he built it himself?
Shhhh. I think it's a splendid idea.
 

Old 04-22-2008, 01:01 AM   #2593
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Shhhh. I think it's a splendid idea.
Ditto! I second that wholeheartedly!
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:25 AM   #2594
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Thanks for the statistical breakdown, Mr. Scouries. I think the Novels/Novellas showing is surprising, because I don't understand how a chapter of a work can be the best story in a contest, but maybe that's just me.

As Darkniciad and several others have already shown, there are probably good reasons why the contests are set up like they are. I thought I had a few suggestions that were worthwhile myself, but wiser folks were able to easily point out the problems these 'solutions' would create.

Maybe a couple of extra contests that would feature specific areas, like Horror/SciFi or Alternative lifestyles, would be a way to minimize the voting patterns you have mentioned.
 

Old 04-22-2008, 01:21 PM   #2595
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BFW, I salute you! You've come up with the prefect solution!

Scouriesworld.com! Do it, do it, Jim!
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:28 PM   #2596
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We'd all run to submit our paltry work to him then wouldn't we...bwahahahahaha
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:07 PM   #2597
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Thumbs up cloudy...

ON MISS CLOUDY I wrote the above cloudy post (POST #2545 )seconds after seeing the thread that starrkers is THREADMISTRESS of titled “Cloudy!” which seemed to be announcing cloudy’s departure from our midst. The idea seemed preposterous! I actually thought it was some weird example of Aussie humor. It brought a small grin to my lips. I posted my reply here not wanting to interrupt the praise that was being heaped on LITEROTICA’s favorite Choctaw.

Apparently miss stella found my attempt at humor less than entertaining. Too bad sweetie! As did the THREADMISTRESS herself. C’est la vie…

miss cloudy will return. You can bet on it. Which will be wonderful….

…mind you, there’s nothing wrong with someone taking a little vacation, is there? Recharging the batteries etc., etc.

Now if only we could arrange a little vacation for….DELETED… Hey, maybe I’d even throw in a few bucks to make sure …DELETED… had a good time. We could send him/her to a real winter ‘hot spot’. Like Basra, Iraq. Hotel prices supposedly are pretty good this time of year down there in Basra…warm weather…gentle breezes…lots of sand…modern airport…lots of ruins to visit…lots of availabe horny twenty year olds...

Jrs
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:09 PM   #2598
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Thumbs down the pilot is a troll? officially? bummer...

PILOT QUOTE #2587 Aha, now I know the sweeps are bogus and cutting illegitimately into the voting. A week ago I contacted another poster and read and voted a decent score on a story this poster had received no votes on. I'm told that yesterday the vote was swept away. There is no ip or alt connection between me and that poster, who is posting from the other side of the world from me, and nothing malicious in the voting. So, the sweeping is bogus; it's all just capricious renumbering.

No, it simply means that you have now been identified as a TROLL by the LITEROTICA VOTE BROOMS and every vote you've ever made will be systematically removed from the site. Plus any future votes you make that are identifiably yours will also be swept away.

Sorry, you are no longer on the official voters list I'm afraid.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:11 PM   #2599
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Thumbs up agreement?

ROMANCE REPLIES

PILOT I believe that the overall "quality" of writing in the Romance section here is probably underaverage--by the logic, first, that it's a category that beginning writers tend to gravitate to. Even in published books, Romance has the reputation of including more schlock (in terms of "better writing") than other genres. And, second, I think it tends to the substandard because it's so formulaic and much easier than with other genres to satisfy the reader. LATER What I didn't agree with was the there is a link between category and "better writing."

MOON Yes, while Romance authors may be regarded with derision by serious writers in the publishing world, they're the ones making a good living at writing… I agree with you on the point that stories tend to score higher in Romance than in some of the other categories.

STELLA Romances are designed to engage the reader, if the reader happens to be wired that way. A good erotic romance not only gets you off, but it satisfies sentiment and emotion as well. That's why romance submissions tend to get higher scores. A fan ends the story with a sense of happiness, along with the afterglow of the wank. It's a double-barrelled blast. LATER… And I agree with you there! (agreeing with mr pilot)

SK well I gotta agree with that... (again agreeing with mr pilot)

starrkers Romance stories here range from well-written to bloody awful, just as in any other category. It's the readers that are more forgiving.

Is it possible? It seems we now have some kind of general agreement that there is no link between category and “better writing”.

And that most of us recognize different categories are scored differently (ROMANCE one of the higher ones).

THAT’S A START…
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:31 PM   #2600
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Although I respect those writers who are able to write romantic stories, romance doesn't do it for me anymore. It did once in my younger days when I was naive and in love. Now, how many different ways can you write about romance. Besides, most guys, if I can speak for most guys, are not into that kind of writing. We like more blood, beer, and fast cars and sports statistics when reading a romantic novel.

Unrequitted love would more hold my interest than a romantic story. My think is poking fun at stuff, something like Edith Wharton's Age of Innocence.

I like your idea, Scouries, of taking turns with categories. That would level the field, as some of us (me) never write a romance story, ergo based on your statistics that more contests are won by romance stories than any other. Okay, I've written a couple, but only to satisfy the category in the Survivor Contest.

...and how do you come up with all these wonderful statistics. The writers here should be kissing your feet for giving them the wealth of statistical information that you do.

I think that if there was another site equally as good as Literotica, we'd all be splitting our time and our stories between the two. Writers are loyal to no one but their audiences.

It's time Scouries for you to start your own web site. It's time. Imagine the money you could make. Think of all the sex you could have with readers and writers for the pleasure of posting their stories and winning contests that you fixed just to get in their pants.

Yes, I accept the position as chief moderator at a generous salary, thank you very much.
 
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