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Old 06-19-2016, 08:26 AM   #1
lovecraft68
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Themed Contest Off-Topic Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by geronimo_appleby View Post
mebbe a less 'popular' category is a sound tactical move, box? less votes, but high ones, might be better than an incest-fest (incfest?) which might get a shitloada reads and votes.
That strategy -with a couple added tweaks-has been mastered by a couple of people over the last two years. 3 W's apiece since 2014 and one's only entered six in that time.

So it's been shown that's the way to go, and anyone can certainly go that route if all you care about is winning and doing by playing the skewed sweeps.

Before anyone gets in a Tizzy that's all I'm going to say on that subject. All the regulars know this story and that you have to have your head in the sand to think its not true and the majority of people here don't play games and enter whatever they want to so its fairly obvious when someone is 'trying'

Having said that I'm entering with incest again because I'm posting what I want rather than competing for anything. In fact that's for the most part all I've been posting over the last year and that will probably continue. I have my eyes on a bigger goal than a hundred dollars and a W (although the W's are nice and shiny and look pretty)

My off lit writing has been going in a different direction of late than erotica so I may just write some incest stories for fun here and that's it.

This one I'm eager to see the reaction to. Its not typical mom/son stuff, like most of mine are to play to the crowd. This one is one of those "My baby done my way" so....its a train wreck.
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:50 AM   #2
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Is anyone going to tell you to stop stinking up this thread with this insanity?

Every single one of your complaints has been shot down and refuted again and again and again, but like SJP insisting he's really a woman, you just keep going. You are seriously headed towards Scouries territory with this, and it irks me that you make these innuendos like "we all get it" when really it's just you.

This whole "cheating" narrative is absolute crapola and I'm sick of it.

Of all the baseless charges you've come up with, the "category" question really gets under my skin.

As authors, we can put our stories in any category we damn well please--aside from the obvious disputed questions of non-con, incest, etc. There are no rules, no "you have to do it this way."

Well, you should know this, since you got to post a personal, autobiographical essay in the Romance category for a contest. Pardon me, but that was the only cynical attempt at "cheating" I can think of in recent memory. That was not a work of romance fiction. It belonged in "Reviews and Essays." One can only imagine what you would have made of that if someone else had done it.

When Bucky posted a story in Fetish, you whined and complained about that. It was low votes, it was easy, he'd already won in it. So what happens when he posts in Novels? It was the "wrong" category and "belonged" in Fetish, LMAO (Meanwhile, Pilot would be complaining about Novel-length stories in the non-novel category.)

The crap about "I just do my thing and it's only all these others who are desperate to win" is a projection and comes off as completely transparent. Yeah, it's only them. When in fact, the only one who is coming off as desperate is you.

You grasp at straws and repeat obsessively things that have been proven not to be true over and over and over, and why should you continue to be allowed to do this? It's a public forum and we're all authors here.

If you insist on going this route, you need to stop smearing the rest of us by implication, which unfortunately is the case, which is why I'm saying something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
That strategy -with a couple added tweaks-has been mastered by a couple of people over the last two years. 3 W's apiece since 2014 and one's only entered six in that time.

So it's been shown that's the way to go, and anyone can certainly go that route if all you care about is winning and doing by playing the skewed sweeps.

Before anyone gets in a Tizzy that's all I'm going to say on that subject. All the regulars know this story and that you have to have your head in the sand to think its not true and the majority of people here don't play games and enter whatever they want to so its fairly obvious when someone is 'trying'

Having said that I'm entering with incest again because I'm posting what I want rather than competing for anything. In fact that's for the most part all I've been posting over the last year and that will probably continue. I have my eyes on a bigger goal than a hundred dollars and a W (although the W's are nice and shiny and look pretty)

My off lit writing has been going in a different direction of late than erotica so I may just write some incest stories for fun here and that's it.

This one I'm eager to see the reaction to. Its not typical mom/son stuff, like most of mine are to play to the crowd. This one is one of those "My baby done my way" so....its a train wreck.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:33 PM   #3
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I wouldn't call attempts to get few votes cheating, but it can certainly be tactical. Assume that every story has an actual quality in terms of what the average reader thinks of it and that it can be measured by votes. (I know, it's a crude assumption, but it's the assumption that is used to determine the winner in these contests, so bear with me.) If there was an infinite amount of votes, you'd get the true value. There are however a finite number of voters, thus there is going to be some deviation; the more readers that vote, the closer to the true value do you get. And conversely, the fewer votes you get, the further from the true value you get.

So, if your story for instance has a true quality of 4.7, and you need 4.9 to win, then getting few votes can push it up just enough. And sure, the randomness can work in the other direction, giving you a lower score, say 4.5. Then you don't win, which you wouldn't have anyway. It's in some way similar to why hockey teams with a lower score might exchange the goalie for a player in the last minutes of a game; the randomness is their only chance.

But it's not cheating, and it is very unlikely to let for instance a 4.0 worthy story win.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
Is anyone going to tell you to stop stinking up this thread with this insanity?

Every single one of your complaints has been shot down and refuted again and again and again, but like SJP insisting he's really a woman, you just keep going. You are seriously headed towards Scouries territory with this, and it irks me that you make these innuendos like "we all get it" when really it's just you.

This whole "cheating" narrative is absolute crapola and I'm sick of it.

Of all the baseless charges you've come up with, the "category" question really gets under my skin.

As authors, we can put our stories in any category we damn well please--aside from the obvious disputed questions of non-con, incest, etc. There are no rules, no "you have to do it this way."

Well, you should know this, since you got to post a personal, autobiographical essay in the Romance category for a contest. Pardon me, but that was the only cynical attempt at "cheating" I can think of in recent memory. That was not a work of romance fiction. It belonged in "Reviews and Essays." One can only imagine what you would have made of that if someone else had done it.

When Bucky posted a story in Fetish, you whined and complained about that. It was low votes, it was easy, he'd already won in it. So what happens when he posts in Novels? It was the "wrong" category and "belonged" in Fetish, LMAO (Meanwhile, Pilot would be complaining about Novel-length stories in the non-novel category.)

The crap about "I just do my thing and it's only all these others who are desperate to win" is a projection and comes off as completely transparent. Yeah, it's only them. When in fact, the only one who is coming off as desperate is you.

You grasp at straws and repeat obsessively things that have been proven not to be true over and over and over, and why should you continue to be allowed to do this? It's a public forum and we're all authors here.

If you insist on going this route, you need to stop smearing the rest of us by implication, which unfortunately is the case, which is why I'm saying something.
Actually, that's not true. Authors suggest a category and, usually, that category is accepted. However, Laurel has the final say over what goes where. I mentioned I am going to try to post my contest entry in Group Sex, but I expect it to be changed to Celebrity. Assuming that happens, there's nothing I can do about it.

What, pray tell, is wrong with posting an actual experience in the Romance category. It's not that common, but it does happen. I expect many stories here are based on events in he authors' lives.
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Old 06-19-2016, 03:17 PM   #5
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1. I know that. That is what I meant by certain contested issues that will be referred to Laurel.

But there are no hard and fast rules between, say, hmm, should this go in fetish, group, or novels, when there is no hot button issue that Laurel would seek to intervene on.

Furthermore, it's between Laurel and the author.

2. I don't think there's anything "wrong" with it--except when the person in question is slinging sh*t at everyone else for "posting in the wrong category."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
Actually, that's not true. Authors suggest a category and, usually, that category is accepted. However, Laurel has the final say over what goes where. I mentioned I am going to try to post my contest entry in Group Sex, but I expect it to be changed to Celebrity. Assuming that happens, there's nothing I can do about it.

What, pray tell, is wrong with posting an actual experience in the Romance category. It's not that common, but it does happen. I expect many stories here are based on events in he authors' lives.
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Old 06-19-2016, 03:19 PM   #6
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I understand that; funny that my post calling out someone else for stirring up the same old argument and telling him to put a lid on it gets reprimanded!

This really is quite unfair. You should have intervened when Lovecraft posted (yet another) insinuating post about cheating. Yet you let it slide, as if it's accepted and ok.

Its not ok, but apparently I'm the one who had to say it.

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These discussions never produce anything but in-fighting. This is the contest support thread, and such arguments do not belong here. If you wish to discuss the way the contests are run, start another thread or find one of the many existing threads on the subject and revive it. If the argument continues here, it will be split off into its own thread or removed entirely, depending upon the content.
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Old 06-19-2016, 03:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
(Meanwhile, Pilot would be complaining about Novel-length stories in the non-novel category.)
I'm game. Point out where I've complained that novel-length stories should not be posted in a non-novel category. If you're going after a poster for an unsupportable smear, perhaps you shouldn't be posting unsupportable smears yourself.
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Old 06-19-2016, 03:56 PM   #8
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I stand corrected.

You just complain about Novel length stories in contests.

Quote:
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I'm game. Point out where I've complained that novel-length stories should not be posted in a non-novel category. If you're going after a poster for an unsupportable smear, perhaps you shouldn't be posting unsupportable smears yourself.
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Old 06-19-2016, 04:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
I stand corrected.

You just complain about Novel length stories in contests.
My complaint is combining novels with short stories in contests. They are two different forms. And the suggestion I've always included is that the contest be separated, not that novels shouldn't be permitted in contests.

If you're going to back bite--especially when complaining about others complaining--you should try to get it right. Actually, you should just stuff it.
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
I stand corrected.

You just complain about Novel length stories in contests.
No, he's mentioned longer stories can get a scoring advantage and many others agree with that. You can see that in top lists and regular submissions, not just contests. After endless chapters, longer solo works might be the next in line for a way to get a good score

People have to be really invested to read a longer piece and if they made it to the end they must have liked it.

Not everything is controversy, some things are facts.

Like its a fact you were on certain people like white on rice, now oh, it was all made up. People remember what other people post you know.

No biggie, I know the score and its irrelevant, but I would be remiss if I didn't point that out while your slinging at people you used to agree with.

If you want to continue this particular conversation PM me like you used to when you were the one pointing out what you now say is shit. I'm not going to jack the thread my comment was in response to what someone else said.
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:44 PM   #11
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Tomorrow is the START of the Nude Day 2016 Contest.

But there is still time to finish that entry, or even write one from the beginning.

Whether it is better to have your story visible on the first day?

Or to submit it at the last minute that entries are possible?

Both can be wrong, or right.

Do both - and see.

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Old 06-19-2016, 07:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
My complaint is combining novels with short stories in contests. They are two different forms. And the suggestion I've always included is that the contest be separated, not that novels shouldn't be permitted in contests.

If you're going to back bite--especially when complaining about others complaining--you should try to get it right. Actually, you should just stuff it.
Actually, the cat. is Novels and Novellas. I have never read a definition of this, except for in the Survivors' Contest rules. There, it was 7,500 words, which is about two Lit. pages or slightly more. That's really not very long; I have written stories in other cats that are longer.
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Old 06-19-2016, 07:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
Actually, the cat. is Novels and Novellas. I have never read a definition of this, except for in the Survivors' Contest rules. There, it was 7,500 words, which is about two Lit. pages or slightly more. That's really not very long; I have written stories in other cats that are longer.
That's nice, but, like Carnal_Flower' posts, it's irrelevant to anything I've ever posted, so I don't know why you quoted me.
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Old 06-19-2016, 07:53 PM   #14
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This whole thread would be funny as hell if it wasn't so sad.

What's even sadder is the extent someone went to too make sure the subject of low vote categories used to win contests was pulled from the contest thread.
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Old 06-19-2016, 08:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
Is anyone going to tell you to stop stinking up this thread with this insanity?

Every single one of your complaints has been shot down and refuted again and again and again, but like SJP insisting he's really a woman, you just keep going. You are seriously headed towards Scouries territory with this, and it irks me that you make these innuendos like "we all get it" when really it's just you.

This whole "cheating" narrative is absolute crapola and I'm sick of it.
Sorry but none of his complaints have been "shot down and or refuted" at all. The group using this strategy have all ranted and raved and complained to Laurel to get it all pulled from the contest thread. This is another case of the same.

Anyone and everyone can figure it out for themselves if they look closely. The formula is great at exploiting things like low vote categories, squig factors about a third of the way in to make voters drop out or bomb the story. A dozen friends to vote the story up and then the sweeps take away the bombs. Not you have a low vote story with a very high score. Instant winner.

It has happened with the same group nearly a dozen times over the last two years.

You can rant and rave and bitch and moan all you want but it has definitely happened and will keep on happening.
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Old 06-19-2016, 08:23 PM   #16
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Meanwhile as it was made sure that the mod took notice of this, somehow they have not decided to do anything about scouries repeatedly bumping his own thread(8 consecutive at this point) which is against the rules, but as always scouries just seems to be above them for some strange reason.
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Old 06-19-2016, 08:33 PM   #17
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You can rant and rave and bitch and moan all you want but it has definitely happened and will keep on happening.
Because its easier for the site to say nothing's going on than to take any action like....well anything requiring action.

When a person wins 4 contests over an 11 year span then after the group is formed wins three out of six tries and only enters when eligible its not a coincidence. When another person who is part of the group never won a contest and has won three since the same thing, its not either.

When someone takes an 8 page one shot laden with not just sex, but a particular fetish and then puts it in novels and novellas that is not coincidence.

Again, its easier to just as pilot says put the hands over the ears and go la la la. Its also a matter of as you just said, people whining and crying to Laurel and again, its easier to just say shut up, then look and see what's right there in plain site.

In the end what's sad is a hundred dollars and a blue letter on a homepage is worth that much.

Too bad we couldn't auction ours off, there's obviously a market.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:05 PM   #18
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Nobody reported the posts in the thread. The decision to make the contest threads and a few other types of thread hassle free zones was made by me, and approved by Laurel. Such posts will not be allowed in the support threads. If you wish to discuss the mechanics of the contests, utilize this thread or start your own.

The lifespan of any such thread will be determined by how long it remains free of personal attacks, though because they will be contentious by their very nature, there is a higher degree of tolerance for such threads.

As to scouries, he apparently learned his lesson when I locked one thread and merged two others the last time he was here bumping multiple threads. Bumping a single thread once per day does not reach the level I consider disruptive. If it troubles you, take advantage of the ignore function.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
Is anyone going to tell you to stop stinking up this thread with this insanity?

...
What?

It's his thread. It's the first post. Sounds like someone is...

Take a chill pill.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:09 AM   #20
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What?

It's his thread. It's the first post. Sounds like someone is...

Take a chill pill.
Actually this was in the main contest thread and was split off.

The contest thread is supposed to be for talking about the contests, but when the discussion turns to how easily people can manipulate the contest by doing things in a certain way, all of a sudden that's not acceptable because they pretend its not true.

Which is stupid because the How To section is full of essays on how to max out scores in individual categories and across the board.

The same essays also address what not to do in each category. Things that will cost you votes or lower your score so basically "do's and don't" for categories.

For example here's one I did on incest

https://www.literotica.com/s/write-i...-mother-fucker

You gloss through it you see where I point out the things I feel make a good story that will get you high numbers and mention things that are seen as a bad thing and lower the numbers and its all based on my experience here.

Those are meant for people who want to get the max of everything in their stories.

But what's happening now is people are using the "don'ts" in combination with posting in the incorrect categories and doing everything they can to keep the vote total down and get a lot of knee jerk one bombs that get swept and leave the story with only good votes as the legit ones.

Its not new, there was an author here who had a similar formula down to a science. But he was one person entering contests here and there. Now we have a group with their own website who cobble together stories to fit this angle.

Cheating isn't the correct word. Gaming and manipulating is what it is and it ruins it for the majority who enter based on nothing more than what they want to write.

The site doesn't see it as being worth discussing because it means admitting it can be done and either having to change things or dealing with people realizing they're getting the shit end of the stick and not wanting to enter.

And I will once again waste my breath and say to the people who say I bring this up because I 'can't win' check my damn page, I've placed in one contest a year for four years running including last year(although that was a monthly) So sore loser does not factor in to me.

What those people who say that can't seem to fathom is that someone would give a shit about the new authors or people who have never one and now have less of a chance than ever due to a factory of authors who've won a boatload of contests in the two years they have been together.

Along with 10, yes 10 placings in the annuals where sad to say their voting for each other factored in and shouldn't have but did because so few 'loyal' readers were willing to vote for their favorite authors

Oh, and to the sore loser crew, I won one of those too.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:17 AM   #21
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Quick example, and these are things most authors who have been here for awhile can and have seen on their own.

For incest

Max score (votes you never know, a lot of variables even down to when you posted it) Romance. Not just sex, but a romantic HEA for whatever your family pairing is.

These will get me high 4.7's into low 4.8's

Middle of the rode. Mostly just hot sex. Not stroke, there's some build up, but not beating conflict into the ground, a fairly quick "should I?" followed by a lot of action, no romance needed, just fun.

This will hit the 4.6's into low 4.7's so a drop from the romance.

Lowest-Put something dark in it, abuse, non consent, one of the pairing not happy about it... I'll hit low 4.5's with this and only reason its that high is I have a big following that will vote based on liking most of my stuff.

My lowest mom/son score is 4.49 and it featured an abusive drunk father. Most of my romantic ones are low 4.8 or high 4.7

So what I'm getting at is I can, within reason, predict a score by what I'm putting in the story.

Anyone here with a lot of experience in a category can determine the same thing and that is all I'm saying is happening here-along with playing the advantage sweeps give to lower vote total stories- and why its some type of damn sin to admit its true puzzles me.

Again just look through the How To's that's the purpose of a lot of them so shouldn't it just be seen as common knowledge this shit can be done?
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:22 PM   #22
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Am I looking at a Handbag hurling match ?
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:31 PM   #23
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Am I looking at a Handbag hurling match ?
Only if you're looking for entertainment value (which includes just about everyone, truth be admitted).

But the answer is no. This is for money, and a pretty nifty amount in terms of writing competitions. I'd like to see the money pulled out of the contests to reduce the competitive edging and cheating.
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Old 06-20-2016, 02:59 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Only if you're looking for entertainment value (which includes just about everyone, truth be admitted).

But the answer is no. This is for money, and a pretty nifty amount in terms of writing competitions. I'd like to see the money pulled out of the contests to reduce the competitive edging and cheating.
The money here is actually pretty good you're saying? I have nothing to compare it to.

But For who we know we're discussing its not so much the money its to claim 'award winning author' in the paid market.

Technically I suppose its true, and I'm not trying to belittle lit in any way, but when a consumer sees 'award winning' I think they have something in mind other than a contest on a free writing site with very little in the way of official rules and restrictions and is decided by popular vote and imperfect automated sweeps rather than a panel of judges.

Real contests can't be played like these can.
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Old 06-20-2016, 02:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
Actually this was in the main contest thread and was split off.

The contest thread is supposed to be for talking about the contests, but when the discussion turns to how easily people can manipulate the contest by doing things in a certain way, all of a sudden that's not acceptable because they pretend its not true.

Which is stupid because the How To section is full of essays on how to max out scores in individual categories and across the board.

The same essays also address what not to do in each category. Things that will cost you votes or lower your score so basically "do's and don't" for categories.

For example here's one I did on incest

https://www.literotica.com/s/write-i...-mother-fucker

You gloss through it you see where I point out the things I feel make a good story that will get you high numbers and mention things that are seen as a bad thing and lower the numbers and its all based on my experience here.

Those are meant for people who want to get the max of everything in their stories.

But what's happening now is people are using the "don'ts" in combination with posting in the incorrect categories and doing everything they can to keep the vote total down and get a lot of knee jerk one bombs that get swept and leave the story with only good votes as the legit ones.

Its not new, there was an author here who had a similar formula down to a science. But he was one person entering contests here and there. Now we have a group with their own website who cobble together stories to fit this angle.

Cheating isn't the correct word. Gaming and manipulating is what it is and it ruins it for the majority who enter based on nothing more than what they want to write.

The site doesn't see it as being worth discussing because it means admitting it can be done and either having to change things or dealing with people realizing they're getting the shit end of the stick and not wanting to enter.

And I will once again waste my breath and say to the people who say I bring this up because I 'can't win' check my damn page, I've placed in one contest a year for four years running including last year(although that was a monthly) So sore loser does not factor in to me.

What those people who say that can't seem to fathom is that someone would give a shit about the new authors or people who have never one and now have less of a chance than ever due to a factory of authors who've won a boatload of contests in the two years they have been together.

Along with 10, yes 10 placings in the annuals where sad to say their voting for each other factored in and shouldn't have but did because so few 'loyal' readers were willing to vote for their favorite authors

Oh, and to the sore loser crew, I won one of those too.
So you didn't actually start this thread...by typing it in as a new thread, it was created by the AHMOD?

Still, whats her face should just stfu. Sounds like she hasn't got the formula down yet and is pissed about it.
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