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Old 10-20-2006, 01:23 PM   #26
champagne1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRainMan
i have to read it a few more times,

but to me, the word "one" clearly means "poinsettia."

why not spilt a subject and predicate? -- that's one of the things commas commas are for, no? . . .

It was hot and wet enough to grow poinsettias, and by the time I’d harvested my first good crop of acne, Grandpa sort of became one.

i just don't see how "one" refers to acne.

edited to add -- but a lot of very good readers do. so there must be a problem.
There are two phrases in the sentence, denoted by the conjunction, and, dictating that the "one" must refer to the proximal subject, in this instance, the "first good crop of acne."

If this doesn't fix that blemish, dahling, we're busting out the peroxide wash.
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRainMan
i have to read it a few more times,

but to me, the word "one" clearly means "poinsettia."

why not spilt a subject and predicate? -- that's one of the things commas commas are for, no? . . .

It was hot and wet enough to grow poinsettias, and by the time I’d harvested my first good crop of acne, Grandpa sort of became one.

i just don't see how "one" refers to acne.

edited to add -- but a lot of very good readers do. so there must be a problem.
I don't know whether it is grammatically incorrect or not. I'll leave that to the English majors. But psychologically, when you hit the word "one" you start thinking "one what?" and attach to the nearest object, the acne. Changing the sentence to
It was hot and wet enough to grow poinsettias, and Grandpa sort of became one by the time I’d harvested my first good crop of acne.
makes the association clear, at least to me.

That may not work aesthetically, though.
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne1982
There are two phrases in the sentence, denoted by the conjunction, and, dictating that the "one" must refer to the proximal subject, in this instance, the "first good crop of acne."

If this doesn't fix that blemish, dahling, we're busting out the peroxide wash.
you must mean 'clauses,' not 'phrases' -- and there are 3, not 2, as can be seen by the 3 distinct subjects and predicates:

It/was . . . I/had harvested . . . and Grandpa/became.

grammatically, this gets complicated, but i teach grammar for a living --

the first clause is a main clause (makes sense by itself), the second clause is a subordinate clause (does not make complete sense without the others), the third is another main clause -- i know of no rule that says the predicate nominative of a main clause must refer to the subject or object of a subordinate clause simply because it's closest.

fixing it to clear up the reading is not a problem, and i'll probably do that -- too many good readers finding a problem is a problem in itself.

but it still reads the way i intended it, to me.


Last edited by TheRainMan : 10-20-2006 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara
I don't know whether it is grammatically incorrect or not. I'll leave that to the English majors. But psychologically, when you hit the word "one" you start thinking "one what?" and attach to the nearest object, the acne. Changing the sentence to
It was hot and wet enough to grow poinsettias, and Grandpa sort of became one by the time I’d harvested my first good crop of acne.
makes the association clear, at least to me.

That may not work aesthetically, though.
understood.

repair is probably the way to go, since it is not a complex piece, and i want it to be read without misunderstanding.

the fix you list is the one i've already considered.

thanks so much, all.

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Old 10-20-2006, 01:42 PM   #30
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Rain Man

If I may ask for your help please. I am a bad English major in the fact that my grammar has horrendously slacked and become forgotten. Can you recommend some sites for me to brush up on my skills? I would appreciate it greatly.
blessings
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:47 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Lac
Rain Man

If I may ask for your help please. I am a bad English major in the fact that my grammar has horrendously slacked and become forgotten. Can you recommend some sites for me to brush up on my skills? I would appreciate it greatly.
blessings
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i don't know of any websites that are comprehensive enough (i'm sure they're there, but i've never looked)

here's the link to a book that covers it all:


Warriner's English Grammar and Compostion - Complete Course



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Old 10-20-2006, 01:52 PM   #32
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Rain Man

Thank you for your speedy help!
du
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Old 10-20-2006, 02:24 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara
. . . That may not work aesthetically, though.
yes, after looking, i think it does work aesthetically. and it certainly clears up the mess i made.


. . . The windows in that room were forever
shut, steam heat peeling the wallpaper,
fireplace roaring. It was hot and wet enough
to grow poinsettias, and Grandpa had become one
by the time I’d harvested my first good crop
of acne—motionless, face red, his body a stem,

his head tilted as he napped . . .

Last edited by TheRainMan : 10-20-2006 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 10-20-2006, 02:56 PM   #34
champagne1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRainMan
you must mean 'clauses,' not 'phrases' -- and there are 3, not 2, as can be seen by the 3 distinct subjects and predicates:

It/was . . . I/had harvested . . . and Grandpa/became.

grammatically, this gets complicated, but i teach grammar for a living --

the first clause is a main clause (makes sense by itself), the second clause is a subordinate clause (does not make complete sense without the others), the third is another main clause -- i know of no rule that says the predicate nominative of a main clause must refer to the subject or object of a subordinate clause simply because it's closest.

fixing it to clear up the reading is not a problem, and i'll probably do that -- too many good readers finding a problem is a problem in itself.

but it still reads the way i intended it, to me.

Well, maybe not rules of grammar. I admit I merely put words to a situation I know feels right. I have been picked up for the same breech of syntax in my writing and once a map is drawn for me, I can usually see how to solve the problem.

P.S. A phrase, in my use, is meant to describe the group of words that can be treated as nouns. ie the harvest of a crop of acne and the weather promoting poinsetta growth. So, I found it more comfortable to relate the Granpa Clause to the closest noun in the sentence.
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Old 10-20-2006, 03:54 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne1982
Well, maybe not rules of grammar. I admit I merely put words to a situation I know feels right. I have been picked up for the same breech of syntax in my writing and once a map is drawn for me, I can usually see how to solve the problem.

P.S. A phrase, in my use, is meant to describe the group of words that can be treated as nouns. ie the harvest of a crop of acne and the weather promoting poinsetta growth. So, I found it more comfortable to relate the Granpa Clause to the closest noun in the sentence.

point well-taken.

it doesn't matter if it's grammatically correct or not. if three quality readers like you and calli and tzara came up with the same thing, i fouled up and need to repair -- especially since it is a concrete piece where even the slightest ambiguity (intended or unintended) does not help.

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Old 10-20-2006, 05:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRainMan
point well-taken.

it doesn't matter if it's grammatically correct or not. if three quality readers like you and calli and tzara came up with the same thing, i fouled up and need to repair -- especially since it is a concrete piece where even the slightest ambiguity (intended or unintended) does not help.

I'll admit that I saw grandpa poinsettias first rather than acne. It was instant image too of him turning into them—I snickered. However, after it was pointed out, I saw the latter and it's still an amusing image. Was I supposed to laugh? Facetiousness just floats so far above my head.
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Old 10-20-2006, 08:02 PM   #37
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duct tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinorMonster
We all smiled
and chewed the
non committal banter,

trying not to stare.

We all thought
the same thing.

Wow the hell
does she keep that
strapless pinnacle of flimsy
from obeying natural law
and slip?

Theories got tasted
with canapes and cocktails,
of safety pin pierced nipples,
of static charged implants,
of a low pressure vortex
in the valley between.

Maybe old time voodoo,
maybe new day arrowhead
vanity tech, indistinguishable
from magic...

...maybe, maybe not,
it's there, and still,
almost not.

We all smiled
and ached to keep
our eyes eye level.

It never fell,

and we
never found out.
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:40 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetjain
duct tape
Fixes everything, yes.

Somehow I find that very erotic. Guy thing, probably.

Now I'll be walking around Home Depot with, um, well, nevermind.
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Old 10-20-2006, 10:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara
Fixes everything, yes.

Somehow I find that very erotic. Guy thing, probably.

Now I'll be walking around Home Depot with, um, well, nevermind.

stanley groove joint plyers?


by SeattleRain ©
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:31 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetjain
duct tape
Buzzkill.
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Old 10-21-2006, 06:08 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liar
Buzzkill.
Guess that's why they don't let straight men backstage at beauty pageants. Duct tape holds the bathing suits in place, too.
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Old 10-21-2006, 06:12 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetjain
Guess that's why they don't let straight men backstage at beauty pageants. Duct tape holds the bathing suits in place, too.
Just submitted a edited version to Lit. Wait and wee.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:27 AM   #43
Tzara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRainMan
History in a Nutshell


The well my grandfather father found with a willow stick
I assume this is a typo. If it isn't, it is very confusing.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:56 AM   #44
TheRainMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara
I assume this is a typo. If it isn't, it is very confusing.
thanks, Seattle.

isn't it amazing what one's own eyes can't see? how they read what you meant instead of what you wrote?

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Old 10-25-2006, 05:12 PM   #45
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Just wanted to throw out a quick welcome to Wicked Eve who has began her first trip (if I'm not mistaken) on Neo's 30 day rollecoaster of elation and frustration. Your poem today was incredible.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:04 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clutching_calliope
Just wanted to throw out a quick welcome to Wicked Eve who has began her first trip (if I'm not mistaken) on Neo's 30 day rollecoaster of elation and frustration. Your poem today was incredible.
Thanks.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:25 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedEve
Thanks.
i second Calli's welcome.

it's so so good to have you there.

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Old 10-27-2006, 09:30 AM   #48
champagne1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara
Post Mortem on a Bad Poem

My words
lie like cadavers
on the page. I poke and prod
them, squeamishly,

unsure they are quite dead.
LOL. I think someone's been watching a little too much CSI.
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Old 10-30-2006, 03:49 PM   #49
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<edited per request>
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Last edited by champagne1982 : 11-14-2006 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 10-30-2006, 04:09 PM   #50
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Quote:
quote deleted

I like it too, but it bugs me to read and I'm having trouble pin-pointing why.

Is it the line breaks?
That there are no stanzas?
That the first four lines are too staticy to read?
...

Is it because of the 'you.' 'You' in the first two lines?
Is it because 'You shine with our sweat' sounds (dare I say it?) flat?

I need to think some more about it.

I think it's those two 'you's.


Last edited by wildsweetone : 11-14-2006 at 01:17 AM. Reason: html
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