Micromanagement Values and Potential in D/s Relationships

Occasionally the topic of micromanagement comes to light in reference to D/s relationships and I am interested in a conversation here as to others opinions of it and whether they have explored it as a functional part of their relationships.

The closest I have come to micromanagement was a local Dominant who expressed interest in me just a couple of years ago. Prior to that I was immune to any knowledge of his preferred style. He was disinterested in any potential abilities I may or may not have and had mapped out a very clear definition as to what I would in fact be doing. Which he was more than happy to inform me of . He was specific to the point that he was able to tell me how I would in fact interact one to one with different members of his family. This knowledge coming after the lecture on what my day would entail in service to him. I was astounded . I was speechless . When I say conversation I am being generous. The word conversation implies a shared re-pore. I was being dictated to, lectured .He also spoke in a manner that implied our potential 'union' was a forgone conclusion . Yes it was that extreme. I have never before been so grateful that my Mentor had limited the amount of time I was permitted to speak to him alone . Oh the rush to know I could finally extricate myself from the company of this man . I must have been a little emotionally vulnerable that day as I recall I was in tears from the moment he left me. This was followed by a soft transient depression and anger at myself for not speaking up when I felt bullied and had been alluded to as disposable .

Mine however is only one experience. Perhaps others have more positive reflections on Micromanagement if so I would very much appreciate that you consider sharing.

Micromanagement as defined in Wiki

Micromanagement is a management style where a manager closely observes or controls the work of their employees, generally used as a pejorative term. In contrast to giving general instructions on smaller tasks while supervising larger concerns, the micromanager monitors and assesses every step.

I can't imagine that micromanagement would be all that effective... it would seem that someone who felt the need to micromanage to such a degree would not be a good dominant in the first place.

Mine is currently exploring how much she is comfortable having me decide for her. I don't expect she will want it to be as extreme as I have pushed it recently for long, but we won't know unless I do. I'm learning how much I want to manage at the same time. Micromanagement does not seem all that thrilling... it seems like an awful lot of work for not much gain, personally.

That's about all I feel qualified to say.

Just like lots of other women, I have often confused being loved with being micro managed.

A recent true-life excerpt:
He wants her to get work full time. Between 2 jobs, she is able to get full time hours, although because it’s not full time at ONE job, there are no benefits available to her. He blasts her when he finds out it’s not full time to ONE employer, even though there are no full time hours available, at this time, at either job. He wants her to be off on Sundays and Mondays. She agrees to work Wednesday, Thursday and Friday (with 2 different employers) so she can be off on Sundays and Mondays. Now he’s furious that she’s not off on Fridays too.

She asks him if she should stop making any of these kinds decisions without first discussing it with him. His response: “Roxanne, the shit that comes out of your mouth after you have fucked up just amazes me. It does not impress or inspire confidence.”

She still thinks, “Oh he cares!!! He really, really cares!!”

Nothing could be further from the truth. Being micro managed has absolutely nothing to do, in my opinion, with being loved.

(Of course, this is not just being micro managed. It's also kinda verbal abuse, too. I'm not so blind that I don't see that.)

The problem with micromanagement is that things don't get done if you're not there, and that's a sign of bad leadership.

How it relates specifically to noggenFrogger however, I know sweet fuckall.

I am not going to comment on posts individually at this stage but I can add further information in regards to the Dominant whom desired to micromanage me. He was a High School Teacher by profession and employed. During the course of his work day he had set very specific detailed expectations of what would be done. If I had agreed or in any manner found this variation of D/s lifestyle palatable it is without question that to the best of my ability his expectations may have been met.

For all intensive purposes the style of management I am referring to in my opinion strips the submissive of any more value than I imagine a flesh and blood robot.

I will define further that when I speak of micromanagement I am not including a Dominants 'reasonable' ( heh I know that's loaded ) table of expectations agreed upon between a partnership. There is even room for random expansion and the natural evolution of life and circumstances beyond that (generous of me ....smiles).

Its interesting to me also that I have recently seen references to idea that a Dominant extends his desire to control and compliance of his submissive/slave outside the sexual arena as micromanagement in itself as well. That surprised me , though I guess no more than I find the idea of submission exclusive to the 'bedroom' as strange for my mindset.

Interesting people very very interesting......

Thank you also to those whom have contributed so far each post has given me more to consider

@}-}rebecca---- said:

Its interesting to me also that I have recently seen references to idea that a Dominant extends his desire to control and compliance of his submissive/slave outside the sexual arena as micromanagement in itself as well. That surprised me , though I guess no more than I find the idea of submission exclusive to the 'bedroom' as strange for my mindset.

Interesting people very very interesting......

Thank you also to those whom have contributed so far each post has given me more to consider

Click to expand...

Not sure I would think of anyone who extends their D/s beyond bedroom D/s as being micromanagers. My understanding of micromanagement often has more to do with outside the bedroom, but is not defined by moving outside those confines as much as it is by the total control of everything within the submissives life and living.

I don't see an issue with it, and would think those stories which were related and which were abusive or just plain blinded by the Dominants own ego, should not be confused in thinking that micromanagement is a form of abuse. After all, like all things in D/s, it is initially a matter of consent isn't it? If you consent to being micromanaged, you are not being abused, you are entering into a relationship which is expected to fulfil the needs of all involved.

I think micromanagement is fine for those who have the energy, time and interest....for us, even though in theory many would consider our way as micromanagement given I am not permitted to make any changes or do things which he is not happy with, to actually make a point of going through everything individually and especially is just too much in terms of energy and time he has to bother with such measures. I don't think it necessarily means the Dominant has to be present at all times, anymore than I think to be 24/7 you have to be in the same room 24/7, scening. I believe for those who do micromanage they can find it very fulfilling, and I have no doubt for most submissives it would be very demanding and difficult to submit to requiring constant dedication to resisting the urge or impulse to do something individual and possibly without intent to do so. To me, it is just another of many choices we have available to us and which like many of those choices is misunderstood and seen as only existing in fantasy or for those who know no better.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

I don't see an issue with it, and would think those stories which were related and which were abusive or just plain blinded by the Dominants own ego, should not be confused in thinking that micromanagement is a form of abuse. After all, like all things in D/s, it is initially a matter of consent isn't it? If you consent to being micromanaged, you are not being abused, you are entering into a relationship which is expected to fulfil the needs of all involved.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Very well said.

@}-}rebecca---- said:

I have never before been so grateful that my Mentor had limited the amount of time I was permitted to speak to him alone .

Click to expand...

IMO this is a perfect example to prove Catalina's point.

I have known many submissives with mentors, but not a single one who would allow a mentor to control her behavior in the way you've just described.

Was your mentor abusive? Presumably, no. You consented to and appreciated her control, so this worked for you.

I can't imagine that micromanagement would be all that effective... it would seem that someone who felt the need to micromanage to such a degree would not be a good dominant in the first place.

I'm not sure that this would be exactly true. I feel that it would be the sub/slave that wouldn't be good at what "she/he" was doing, rather than the other way around. Isn't micro-management somehow linked to training? While I wouldn't like be micromanaged every step of the way...way too annoying. I would personally prefer to be "mini-guided" on how the Dom would like things done for "him" so that I'm not constantly stumbling or having to be corrected. Then after a time I would be expected to perform or carry out my duties the way my "manager" Dom has taught me on my own and without direction. Of course these are only my feelings on the topic.

I got the notion that rebecca's mentor was a individual separate from the Dom she was in the relationship with. Have I misunderstood your post rebeca?

From a Desert Rose....

She asks him if she should stop making any of these kinds decisions without first discussing it with him. His response: “Roxanne, the shit that comes out of your mouth after you have fucked up just amazes me. It does not impress or inspire confidence.”

Hmmm sounds like an abusive sort. Sadly, I understand exactly where you're coming from on this.

Micromanagement in or out of a D/s relationship sucks IMO both for the manager and the managed.

However as Cati said there are some thing I would love to be taught by the right person. Training can be a great thing but it's not micromanagement IMO.

Fury

cati said:

I got the notion that rebecca's mentor was a individual separate from the Dom she was in the relationship with.

Click to expand...

I got the same notion.

From the context, I inferred that Rebecca gave her mentor control over how much time she would spend in private discussions with a potential mate.

Though I have never heard of anyone doing this, I don't see anything wrong with it if Rebecca, for whatever reason, needs this type of management/control over her search for partners and has found someone who can help her fill this need.

The point of making the comparison was to punctuate Catalina's remarks, with which I agree. Simply because many or even most people don't need a particular type of management/control in some aspect of their private life, that does not mean it is inappropriate in all cases.

After reading through the Thread this morning it seems some more clarification on my part may be useful. If you will permit me to state firstly for those who don't know me well that Mentors are not potential partners to me , that crosses lines by my personal definitions of what is appropriate. So Cati you were accurate.

I think perhaps the motivations and my adherence to the specific requirements of the meeting I spoke of are of a slightly inaccurate perspective as has been expressed. I do not equate and nor does my Mentor the limitations on my time that day as form of micromanagement .

The predominant limitation on my time in this initial meeting was more to 'control' the Dominant than I. He was not well known to my Mentor and she felt it was in my best interests to limit access to some degree. Her desire was to protect me and there were very specific and credible reasons which I am aware of . I need also to say this, I don't do 'blind faith'. People in any aspect of my life need to earn my trust . My Mentor and I are also friends albeit from different expressions of the D/s spectrum, she was quite able to suggest I do or not do something and its my faith in her across a multitude of areas and experience that gave rise to my adherence to certain directives. Also she was at hand at this time, had I wished to request she consider extending the time I spent with him that was a viable option. She rarely refused me in hindsight and when she did she was always had a 'damn good argument ' why. Trust me on this , if my Mentor had wanted to micromanage me and I had consented to it she would have required profiles etc of any potential partners before she even allowed me more direct and or private contact.

Another consideration perhaps if a Mentor is to consider micromanagement is the opportunity only to consider potential partners for a submissive in their care picked exclusively by the Mentor. While unusual fully 'arranged' partnerships do in fact occur and within the bounds of a submissive/slave that has consented to that level of control. Certainly nothing of this genre was relevant to me at any given time.

*outburst* right now i WANT more micromanagement.

ok now that that is done.

I couldn't handle being micromanaged. There is a time and a place - like when He's teaching me something (Excel for example) or walking me through part of a scene or something new. But He's pretty confident i will make the correct decisions. If i have a question or need advice i ask...

@}-}rebecca---- said:

I do not equate and nor does my Mentor the limitations on my time that day as form of micromanagement .

Click to expand...

Rebecca,

The sole point of the comparison I made was to make a rather obvious observation, which is - micromanagement is a relative concept. What seems like too much control for others feels like something beneficial to you.

You made a pejorative generalization earlier on the thread:

@}-}rebecca---- said:

For all intensive purposes the style of management I am referring to in my opinion strips the submissive of any more value than I imagine a flesh and blood robot.

Click to expand...

Please consider that this remark may be no more fair than a response to the control your mentor exerts such as: "When applied to the process of discovering compatibility between two partners, limitations of this type strip the process of spontaneity, joy, romance, unaffected interaction, and just plain fun."

Your reaction to that might be something like - "You don't understand why I do this".... and you would be right. I don't.

But guess what? I don't have to. The only people who have to understand whatever needs you have in this process are you, your mentor, and any potential mates.

Everyone has different needs, and everyone has a different perspective on what constitutes too much control in their personal life. And as Catalina said, "If you consent to being micromanaged, you are not being abused, you are entering into a relationship which is expected to fulfil the needs of all involved."

I am not masochistic enough of nature to personally continue with this Thread.

Thank you to those who participated , I will not be rejoining the discussion .

@}-}rebecca---- said:

I am not masochistic enough of nature to personally continue with this Thread.

Thank you to those who participated , I will not be rejoining the discussion .

Click to expand...

An interesting response.

Perhaps your reaction to my remarks echoes the fact that no one has arrived to say "I appreciate extensive control" in reaction to your own.

Strictly MY views on micromanagement from the perspective of a Dominant/Owner and as a supervisor of subordinate personnell.

I have to trust those under my authority to carry out their duties and responsibilities to the best of their ability and training. MY job is to facilitate their ability to perform, to provide guidance and when necessary, to assist.

If I micromanage them in the performance of their duties, I am directly telling them that I do not have faith in their ability or judgement. I am telling them that they are incompetent. I am telling them that I do not trust them.

If I have to spend the time and energy to micromanage every little detail and decision, why in God's name did I put them in that position in the first place? I might as well do the damned job myself and save myself the time, energy and effort of supervising them.

I expect competency from those under my authority, and I will train and educate them to the point of competency. Training is not micromanagement, it is an investment. Once trained, I expect that I can give an order, and that order will be carried out. I'm a "hands off" supervisor. The routine stuff should not require my direct supervision. But if unexpected circumstances or real problems arise I will certainly assist.

Examples:
Hands Off Style: I say: "Honey, fix dinner." At that point, she should head to the kitchen and let me know when dinner is done.

More directed, but still pretty much hands off: "Honey, I'm in the mood for steak tonight. Lets do baked potatoes and a salad" Again, off she goes, and will let me know when dinner is done.

Micromanaging: "Okay, first I want you to get a steak out of the fridge, no, not that one, get the ribeye. I want you to marinate it, and here's what I want you to put in the marinade..." An hour and a half later, after spending the entire time telling her what to prepare, how to prepare it, and generally worrying the poor girl to death in the kitchen when I could have been doing any number of other things, I get to eat...

If someone else has the time, energy, and inclination to micromanage, and it floats their partner's boat, rock on. But for me and mine? Oh hell no. If I have to micromanage, I'll tell them to get outta my frickin' way and I'll do it myself. It's far less aggrevating to do it myself.

I think that there are differeing levels of micromanagement.

I think at times it fluxuates as well. I also think that the word seems to automatically bring up negative thoughts concerning it because people have it in their minds what they think micromanagement is.

I think micromanagement can and does have it moments within the D/s relationship. I know personally that I have generally a general disliking for "consistant" micromanagement. As other have said it is too tiresome, and I also have fundamental issues with the mentality of it and from which it stems.

Saying that, I do find it incredibly hot from time to time. I also would have to admit that a little increase of micro during sex tends to get me lustful and hot.

I will even admit that some of my hottest fantasies of which I have had the pleasure of doing a few involve and intense scene of Micromanagement. Perhaps the problem is that people have different definitions of what micromanagement is....to which I might suggest opening your mind a bit and entertain what mircormanagement could be.

Surely I have heard many who have shared how much they like to be told exactly what to do in the bedroom...is this not one form or type of micro? Micro all the time certainly isn't for me, but there are times and places in which it has been expressed or can be expressed and be a positive experience.

Perhaps, sharing all kinds of expereinces both negative and positive is what is really being asked here in an attempt to see varied expereinces. So how about it, are there differeing levels of Micromanagement? And if so have you ever had any positive expereinces with it? Any negative? Both? Why do you think one was positive or made it positive? What made the other experience negative?

Nice post, RJ.

RJMasters said:

I also think that the word seems to automatically bring up negative thoughts concerning it because people have it in their minds what they think micromanagement is.

Click to expand...

Yes, clearly.

It is commonly used as a synonym for "too much control". The problem in discussing such a concept is that "too much" for me is quite different from "too much" for you, which is different from "too much" for Geoff, etc.

RJMasters said:

As other have said it is too tiresome, and I also have fundamental issues with the mentality of it and from which it stems.

Click to expand...

Looking at the reactions of most people on this thread (with the notable exception of Catalina), it seems as if the "mentality of it" is commonly assumed to reflect an attitude that the submissive is somehow incompetent or mindless.

But once you acknowledge that D/s is about control, and you look at micromanagment as extensive control (rather than "too much"), then it becomes a lot easier to avoid pejorative generalizations and start seeing the value for some.

Reasons why partners may appreciate extensive control? I can think of three.

1 - The submissive has an emotional need to feel secure, reassured, & protected, and the Dominant's control provides that feeling.

2 - Both partners are aroused by control, and for them extensive control just makes things hotter.

3 - The Dominant uses extensive control to challenge the submissive. Again, to quote Catalina's excellent post on this subject: "I don't think it necessarily means the Dominant has to be present at all times, anymore than I think to be 24/7 you have to be in the same room 24/7, scening. I believe for those who do micromanage they can find it very fulfilling, and I have no doubt for most submissives it would be very demanding and difficult to submit to requiring constant dedication to resisting the urge or impulse to do something individual and possibly without intent to do so."

...........

Quint said:

Thanks, gents, for the alternate perspective.

Click to expand...

Quite welcome.

Can't speak for RJ..... but I, for one, will never view key lime cheesecake in quite the same way again. Thanks for sharing.

Sorry to hear that you are not adding to this thread Rebecca.
Again I understood that the Dom in question was attemting to "overdo" the micromanaging and not her Mentor. Rebecca' s mentor was right in limiting her time with this individual. I'm a bit confused at the upset.

I would LOVE to have a mentor like the one Miss Rebecca describes.

I would HATE to have a Dom like the one she describes. I'm glad her contact with him was limited and he did not become her Dom.

I don't understand the enjoyment of micro management. I couldn't deal with much of it for very long.

I also don't enjoy the occasional necessity of using it in teaching. I'm so much rather just do it myself but one must teach for others to learn.

When others do things and it's not the way I do them, I try to be positive about it. After all MY way isn't the only way. It might be the best way though.

*chuckles*

Fury

in video games, Micromanagement is controlling every little command as opposed to letting the AI recieve one general command and letting it handle the rest.

It depends on the AI, whether or not your time is better spent doing other things, the AI of course depends on the game.

^_^
(I'm trying to draw a real comparison I'm not actually babbling about video games)

I'm going to have to think about the whole idea of micromanagement a bit more because my view of what it was seems a bit off. When I think of micromanagement, I think of someone outlining my day for me from start to finish - when I'll get up, what I will wear down to the last little piece of jewelry, the toiletries I'll use, my route to work, what I'll do at lunch, my route home from work, what I'll do from the time I walk in the door until I go to bed, step-by-step, everything I do. Which leads me to the same 'assumption' that Geoff spoke of - if I'm not competent enough to do that myself, why ask me to do it? However, having him tell me when he gets up, 'I'd like to see you wear that underwear with that skirt today' and know that he'll be thinking about that all day is a bit different - although I guess it still falls under micromanagement.

I guess the difference I see between the two, and in my mind what I don't think I would want, would be the everyday micromanagement. I don't think I would want to be handed my instructions each morning that outline what I'm allowed or expected to do today. On the other hand, as things occur within the relationship, wants/needs/desires are made known, then I would learn what I'm allowed or expected to do today. While he might not tell me what I'm allowed to do everyday on my lunch break at work, he might call me before my lunch hour and give me an assignment. I don't view that as micromanagement, although to some I guess it would be considered that.

RJ, there was a thread quite awhile ago where you addressed this very issue and I believe your example was something about the washing machine breaking and the house flooding because she hadn't been given specific permission to deal with it. I think that was a great example of the way I view micromanagement. If I'm managed to that degree, am I ever allowed to make decisions? Can I decide which brand of beans to buy, or which cut of meat to get? Or will my grocery list be detailed down to the very brand? At what point do I rely on my own knowledge to make a decision rather than call my Dom at work every time I'm faced with making a decision? Only those within the relationship can define that point, that level, that is comfortable for them. So what I view as micromanagement, someone else might view as very little control.

As far as micromanagement in the bedroom - whole different ballgame in my mind. I guess I expect a very high level of micromanagement in the bedroom. In fact, I much prefer it.