"Conditional Racism"
- Thread starter RoryN
- Start date
Ham Murabi
Plumbing the Depths
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2002
- Posts
- 23,159
Afrosheen.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Posts
- 59,288
Give an example of when it is. That term kinda confuses me.
Butterflybaby04
Wenn er nur schon käme
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2005
- Posts
- 3,138
Ham Murabi said:
WTF is that?
Angel
Cuntbeans
- Joined
- Dec 26, 1999
- Posts
- 33,975
Butterflybaby04 said:
I totally posted the wrong link the first time. Hahah
http://www.afrosheen.com
Last edited:
RoryN
You're screwed.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Posts
- 60,368
Sean Renaud said:
Me too.
The layman's definition of "conditional racism" is that a prejudiced person who lived when racism was more...mainstream (I know that's problematic, but table it for a sec)...could be labeled as someone who practiced "conditional racism"; that is, they were simply responding to the norms and social mood of the time, and should not be shunned as much for those attitudes.
So, I guess I'd like to see an example of racism that couldn't be construed as "conditional". If no such example exists, I'd argue that "conditional racism" is a crock.
Ham Murabi
Plumbing the Depths
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2002
- Posts
- 23,159
Butterflybaby04 said:
Kinda like a racial conditioner.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Posts
- 59,288
Raised around racist=racist. I don't have a problem with this idea, kinda like hating gays. Hell in lots of circles the word Gay and Jew aren't even really connected to gays or Jews. I know when I say some shit is gay, I just mean I don't like it. (Recently I"ve replaced it in my vocabulary with the phrase "That makes me a sad panda) or when I call you a Jew I mean your cheap. Or if I call you a communist, it just means I don't like you at that moment.
I don't see why people should be ostracised any less for how they became racist though.
For a second I thought conditional racism meant you were racist under some conditions. i.e. If you walked into a random basketball court and saw five white guys and five black guys you'd pick the black guys first assuming they were better at Basketball.
But you'd be equally likely to walk up and talk to any of them, or take them out for a drink etc. etc.
That's a stupid term, why is it coming back? Hell why did it come in the first goddamn place?
I don't see why people should be ostracised any less for how they became racist though.
For a second I thought conditional racism meant you were racist under some conditions. i.e. If you walked into a random basketball court and saw five white guys and five black guys you'd pick the black guys first assuming they were better at Basketball.
But you'd be equally likely to walk up and talk to any of them, or take them out for a drink etc. etc.
That's a stupid term, why is it coming back? Hell why did it come in the first goddamn place?
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Posts
- 59,288
You really don't believe that people who are raised in racist households are more likely to be racist themselves?
RoryN
You're screwed.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Posts
- 60,368
Sean Renaud said:
Ah, gotcha. I can forgive prejudice that's recognized, acknowledged, and thought upon before taking corrective action. We're all prejudiced.
But denial of truth never sits well with me.
Sean Renaud said:
It's a popular "Get Out Of Jail Free" card some members of this generation grant earlier generations.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Posts
- 59,288
RoryN said:
Yeah I know when I'm being racist, and I either apologize in advance or at the end. (Unless I win the basketball game and my gamble turned out to be right)
Hey I completely agree with the denial of truth thing.
Clerks II my grandmother used to call me a Porchmonkey kinda shit. Ok. Least I understand what the mentality is. Its don't hate my grandfather for calling you a nigger, he doesn't know any better, back in his day you people still workd on plantations.
Marquis
Jack Dawkins
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2002
- Posts
- 10,462
RoryN said:
I've never heard the term before, but as you're presenting it here, I think it makes sense.
For example, different people react dramatically differently to similar conditioning. In antebellum times, abolitionists and slaveholders often came from very similar environments and families. That doesn't mean their reference knowledge is different, just their opinions.
I'm much more sympathetic to the views of people who haven't had the opportunity to be exposed to different things, and much more demanding of those who have. Exceeding your expected level of racial understanding and solidarity is impressive, falling below the standards for your circumstance is disappointing.
The eldest generation of my mother's family, my Haitian family, despise Black Americans and Jews. The following generation all had children with Black Americans and Jews, at least 10 of them, with only one exception.
My grandmother used to tell inquirers that my mother being Israeli was the cause of my extra melatonin. It was disappointing, but we've even talked about it since and its way in the past for us. If my dad had been using a similar cover, I'd have been way more upset.
I think with few exceptions, both sides of my family are relatively racially tolerant. I have one cousin who absolutely despises Black Americans. She's lived in the United States for at least 25 years and is black as night. My father is intolerably racist against Arabs, particularly for such a lax Jew.
Saint Peter
shoots left
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2002
- Posts
- 94,045
You hate Americans.SeanH said:
Xander
Rekindled
- Joined
- Dec 20, 1999
- Posts
- 17,089
Well known fact: There are more white niggers than black ones.
Okay, everything aside. Everyone seems to want to discuss some aspect of the term racism to no end.
My personal thing. it's a waste of time.
Another thing is. And I am sure someone is gonna come and disagree with me.
If you have not been, chased, beaten, stabbed or looked down a barrel of a gun. For no other reason, than what you look like. Be it White, Black, brown, Red, Orange, green or purple.
You have no real concept of what racial hate really is. Because your life was never on the line. In the most literal sense.
Okay, everything aside. Everyone seems to want to discuss some aspect of the term racism to no end.
My personal thing. it's a waste of time.
Another thing is. And I am sure someone is gonna come and disagree with me.
If you have not been, chased, beaten, stabbed or looked down a barrel of a gun. For no other reason, than what you look like. Be it White, Black, brown, Red, Orange, green or purple.
You have no real concept of what racial hate really is. Because your life was never on the line. In the most literal sense.
Distant Lover
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Posts
- 383
RoryN said:
Non conditional racism: "You white people's the devil." Said to my wife, by a college professor.
Conditional racism: The professor kept their job.
The concern I see here, if "conditional" racism is seen as acceptable, it weakens current mainstream thought on "subtle" racism being the real problem in industrialized nations with laws against discrimination of that type. The talented, rich, white kid is not offered a scholarship to big college program because of fears there will be a poor media perception in comparison to giving the less talented, middle-class black kid the same scholarship. Is this "subtle" racism? "conditional" racism? (If you said it's okay, the double standard is justifiable because <insert reason>, then you better line up to support conditional racism, my friend...)
So let's say all conditional racism is bad, and should be called out. Fine. So it's okay to go back in time, and re-write history based upon our all-to-temporary morality? At what point do we call Sam Clemens a white supremacist for not expunging the (now) racially offensive n-bombs from Huckleberry Finn? (Twain was his Klan name! Musta been!)
Sorry, but not buying into some degree of "conditional" racism is just bad as giving every kind of racism a pass for it.
In the middle again.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Posts
- 59,288
SeanH said:
I'm impressed. You're either the greatest human being ever born. (Even Jesus refered to non-jews as Gentiles and accepted that they weren't the same as Jews) or your liar. Or your mistaken.
I like to think that I've managed to get a man who is better than Jesus to respond to me though so I'm going to accept you at tyour word. You're not racists.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Posts
- 59,288
I didn't say that they weren't responsible for their actions. No where in that post did I defend who they are. I'm saying that I can't imagine being raised in a truly racist enviroment and not being racist, at the very least until you had a chance to be exposed to the other people.
Have you ever looked at any of the science of Eugenics? Its a lot of very convincing stats, figures, and facts. That no few scientists have ever been able to actually disprove using any kind of scientific method. So your raised by Adolf Hitler, you're only exposed to white germans. All the Jews you know are criminals running from the law. The blacks are all on TV and you only know of blacks through National Geographic and you think you honeslty don't believe this person would be a racist? The question isn't if they can be rehabilitated.
Have you ever looked at any of the science of Eugenics? Its a lot of very convincing stats, figures, and facts. That no few scientists have ever been able to actually disprove using any kind of scientific method. So your raised by Adolf Hitler, you're only exposed to white germans. All the Jews you know are criminals running from the law. The blacks are all on TV and you only know of blacks through National Geographic and you think you honeslty don't believe this person would be a racist? The question isn't if they can be rehabilitated.
wazhazhe
<-- Hamlet & Tigger
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2005
- Posts
- 2,319
I grew up in a racist household. Early on I could see that the racism was a bunch of crap. My father was even prejudiced against his own race. I grew up in a segregated city with segregated schools.
When I said responsible, I mean everyone is responsible for the type person they become. Racist parents are in my opinion a piss-poor excuse for racism.
When I said responsible, I mean everyone is responsible for the type person they become. Racist parents are in my opinion a piss-poor excuse for racism.
Olivia_Yearns
funny
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2006
- Posts
- 6,230
I think that the term is meaningful, denoting persons who lacked an opportunity to evaluate their beliefs. Literacy, education, human rights movements - all of us here at computers have been exposed to the concept of racism and the harm that it does sufficiently to be fully responsible for our racism.
