Limits...hard, soft, none?!

ok I have a few thoughts running through my head today, bear with me as I ramble on....

I only have a handful of hard limits. I was thinking about them and why they are what they are. The top on my list is face slapping. And why dont I like it I asked myself, what is it that pisses me off about it so much. Is it the humiliation of it? The pain? The shock value of omg he just slapped me? I dont quite know yet truthfully, but all three most likely. I just know its something that absolutley is not done.
Now lucky for me, it wont ever be a problem since our dynamic is mostly d/s and not s/m. I have a few slightly masochistic tendencies (spanking being one of them ) but hes not much of a sadist either way.
On the other hand I am a sadist and if the opportunity presented itself I would do it. Does that make me a hypocrite?
But lets say he was, and wanted to do it, I still would not do it. Does this make me less of a submissive? Do any of my limits, in actuality limit my submissiveness to him? Some would say a sub with limits is no sub. While I disagree, I can see where there thinking might lead to that. Isnt the point giving over control, trusitng your dom/top etc?

For those that care to share, what are your limits? Why are they limits? And what are your thoughts on limits in general?

what it makes you

Doesn't make you a hypocrite. It makes you a switch or it makes you an individual.

I've chatted to numerous dommes who still go off once a fortnight to submit themselves to their dommes.

I wouldn't say a sub is somebody with no limits as much as somebody who couldn't dom somebody.Everybody's got their limits. Subs who say they haven't are normally those who think they havent because they havent been taken to them yet.

Doesn't even necessarily make you a switch. We have developed I have a strong sadistic streak that likes to be fed when he decides it is a good idea....in that way I serve the needs of those who crave what I can relate to from my own masochistic desires, and deliver as an exercise of submitting to and obeying his orders and pleasing him in so doing. He is still the Dominant and in charge of what and if I can do anything, but I am allowed to explore that sadism within my own submission by exploring it as a service to others.

As to limits in general, I only have those he imposes on me. That being said, it is still difficult to do some of the things he expects and demands, so we work together to help me acheive them to his satisfaction. Everyone's idea of limits and submission are different, but our interpretation is a submissive is able to have and set limits, a slave most likely will not.

Catalina

ppaddleman said:

Subs who say they haven't are normally those who think they havent because they havent been taken to them yet.

Click to expand...

I think I would agree on that point

I think I should add...Im not doubting my submissiveness, just pondering the depths of limits, disecting if you will

~Blacklace~ said:

I think I would agree on that point

Click to expand...

Not really. I don't have limits because I am not allowed to set or choose them...but he does and those are then effectively my limits, but not set by me. It is generally understood to claim 'no limits' means you do not set any limits on anyone you play with or submit to. There are a lot of subs though who think saying they have no limits is meant to be understood to mean certain things are exempt which is really dangerous when advertising on personal sites. We usually have a serious talk to any who contacty us stating such things, as they do noit know us or anyone they respond to and need to protedct themselves from those who wopuld take advantage.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

Doesn't even necessarily make you a switch. We have developed I have a strong sadistic streak that likes to be fed when he decides it is a good idea....in that way I serve the needs of those who crave what I can relate to from my own masochistic desires, and deliver as an exercise of submitting to and obeying his orders and pleasing him in so doing. He is still the Dominant and in charge of what and if I can do anything, but I am allowed to explore that sadism within my own submission by exploring it as a service to others.

As to limits in general, I only have those he imposes on me. That being said, it is still difficult to do some of the things he expects and demands, so we work together to help me acheive them to his satisfaction. Everyone's idea of milits and submission are different, but our interpretation is a submissive is able to have and set limits, a slave most likely will not.

Catalina

Click to expand...

You have no limits? Or you mean you have no limits because thats not whats 'allowed' as in the case of a slave as you said. I dont recall if yours was slave or sub Cat, sorry! And didnt I read awhile back that your topping?And I agree with the diferentiation (sp? lol) between sub/slave limits/ no limits.

catalina_francisco said:

Not really. I don't have limits because I am not allowed to set or choose them...but he does and those are then effectively my limits, but not set by me. It is generally understood to claim 'no limits' means you do not set any limits on anyone you play with or submit to. There are a lot of subs though who think saying they have no limits is meant to be understood to mean certain things are exempt which is really dangerous when advertising on personal sites. We usually have a serious talk to any who contacty us stating such things, as they do noit know us or anyone they respond to and need to protedct themselves from those who wopuld take advantage.

Catalina

Click to expand...

That makes sense, I was thinking more along the lines of new subs in that sense.

~Blacklace~: Funny you should choose face slapping as a hard limit. i had that same discussion with my Master today. i am personally indifferent to it, however, it is a hard limit for him. i respect that.

There are a million "BDSM Check Lists" online. i have taken several and bastardized them, making my own. It was a good project for me to sit and consider just what my hard and soft limits were...and more importantly WHY! After some soul searching on a few of the items, it gave me a greater insight into myself.

i like this Scene Negotiation & Checklist Although, it is WAYYYY comprehensive. Kind of interesting (off topic) to look at the things one might consider when 'scening' with someone new. The actual list i started with (an excel spreadsheet) was a Limits Checklist. i combined the two and added in info from other checklists. When i was through, my Master was kind enough to review my ideas. This was a good way to see where we both stood...in our neutral time.

There was an old thread that was touched on recently: The limits we thought we had...Forever?!? Cool reading and great for thoughts.

Why do i just throw all of this random "data" out there without answering much? Well, undoubtedly someone (like me) will run across this and benefit from it.

As for me, i am certain that my limits will change over time - actually some already have in short order. IMHO, it's even natural. (With the exception of some of the hard limits that we ALL share...children, etc.) My Master is wonderful and i trust him endlessly...his guidance is what i rely on most.

A sub (pyl) should have limits and their Dom/me (PYL) should have limits as well. somewhere therein lies the truth!

Sorry if this is too far off topic.

j

Neither of us have "limits", but that is more because we've discussed our interests to death.

Neither one of us was willing to move forward with the relationship, if there was something the other *needed* in order to feel fulfilled, that the other was unwilling (or unable) to do. If he needed activity X in a relationship, and I wasn't willing to go there, we'd not be together. If I needed activity Y and it really really wasn't his thing, we'd have stayed friends, but not pursued anything further.

For us it has very little to do with limits, or who is what, and a lot to do with compatability. *shrug*

*curious* said:

Neither of us have "limits", but that is more because we've discussed our interests to death.

Neither one of us was willing to move forward with the relationship, if there was something the other *needed* in order to feel fulfilled, that the other was unwilling (or unable) to do. If he needed activity X in a relationship, and I wasn't willing to go there, we'd not be together. If I needed activity Y and it really really wasn't his thing, we'd have stayed friends, but not pursued anything further.

For us it has very little to do with limits, or who is what, and a lot to do with compatability. *shrug*

Click to expand...

i certainly see your point. Essentially, that is what we have done, just not in as great of detail. However, wouldn't you say that your lack of interest or not being able to "go there" are limits? (just not a TPE type relationship, perhaps?)

i do submit to my Master though. That is where our relationships vary. Our relationship is not wholly wrapped around scenes and play....it's more of a D/s nearing 24/7 relationship.

i would say that compatibility got us there, but that's not exactly right. He chose me. The relationship blossomed and moved forward assisted by compatibility. i am a very strong-willed (read as BAD ) pet. So, i am required to submit to his wishes - and he respects my limits. *giggles*

As a Dom, I have few hard limits. There are things I either don't like to do or care to do but if it comes in in the natural course of things then so be it. That being said, I will under no circumstances do the following;

-Blood work... I don't do knives or things that's purpose is to draw blood. But things where blood is a possible outcome (hard whiping, rough anal...) I don't mind, though I don't tend to go there often. I trust my partner(s) and is I am going that deep with them I know they are clean. I've used knives before in scenes, I've cut and scarrd....been there done that and don't ever want to do it again. The risks and progression of things getting out of hand are too much for me to control as a Dom, no matter how careful I am.

-Enemas/Scat...again, I've been there and done that and again the first is about the risk of hurting her badly and the later is jsut something I don't enjoy. Pee-play/watersports are fine...solids...umm, no thanks.

-Piercing/needles....nope...no thanks, though I don't mind bringing a sub to be pierced by a pro, but i won't do it.

-Drug/Alcohol use during a scene (and in most cases outside of the scene)...maybe it's my straight-edge roots but I like my sub 100% sober. A glass of wine for her prior to an occasional scene is fine time to time...beyond that, keep that shit to yourself. Honestly if I find out that a prospective sub is a drug user (including pot) I won't go forward with her from that point on 95% of the time. If my sub is my possession (as stated in our contract) then that shit is not entering "my" body...period.

Other than that I'm open and am willing to bring my sub there (or go with her....). My limits all tend to revolve around me controlling things, the things mentioned above all lessen my control over a sub or involve too many risks for me to do safely....

I guess that makes anything that seriously endagners my sub (outside of play) is a hard limit. With any sub I take, well before the contract negotiation, we both complete a 22 page checklist I've used for years...it's VERY detailed and we discuss it in depth...after that it done there is rarely ever a problem. Again...it's all about communication.

chun_gong said:

~Blacklace~: Funny you should choose face slapping as a hard limit. i had that same discussion with my Master today. i am personally indifferent to it, however, it is a hard limit for him. i respect that.

There are a million "BDSM Check Lists" online. i have taken several and bastardized them, making my own. It was a good project for me to sit and consider just what my hard and soft limits were...and more importantly WHY! After some soul searching on a few of the items, it gave me a greater insight into myself.

i like this Scene Negotiation & Checklist Although, it is WAYYYY comprehensive. Kind of interesting (off topic) to look at the things one might consider when 'scening' with someone new. The actual list i started with (an excel spreadsheet) was a Limits Checklist. i combined the two and added in info from other checklists. When i was through, my Master was kind enough to review my ideas. This was a good way to see where we both stood...in our neutral time.

There was an old thread that was touched on recently: The limits we thought we had...Forever?!? Cool reading and great for thoughts.

Why do i just throw all of this random "data" out there without answering much? Well, undoubtedly someone (like me) will run across this and benefit from it.

As for me, i am certain that my limits will change over time - actually some already have in short order. IMHO, it's even natural. (With the exception of some of the hard limits that we ALL share...children, etc.) My Master is wonderful and i trust him endlessly...his guidance is what i rely on most.

A sub (pyl) should have limits and their Dom/me (PYL) should have limits as well. somewhere therein lies the truth!

Sorry if this is too far off topic.

j

Click to expand...

lol I dont think your off topic, that was my point really to get something going on it.
Ive never filled out a checklist, its never been an issue for us. As I said there are only a few things I cant/wont do. Face slapping is one, and any urethral/sounds type play as Ive medical issues there. The rest is all negotiable. Now if I wasnt married and/or in a commited LTR to my PYL I can most certainly see the need for a very thorough and detailed list. Actually clicking the link you gave, gave me this which pretty much sums it in a nutshell

AnelizeDarkEyes said:

I remember the list I had at the beginning....before I had any experience, LOL, and before Him. Big difference. I couldn't trust random play partners to take such uncommon care of my mental, physical, and emotional health. I had to be much more proactive, and protective of myself, hence, my limits were much more detailed, and protective....and my experiences much more limited. I learned, but I didn't experience the full depth and breadth of what I have in this relationship. They are two different things entirely.

My limits, today, are virtually nonexistent. They are more like mutual understandings. Things He doesn't care to do, that match the things I don't care to do. It works. Doms have limits too. Imagine that. He thoroughly enjoys poking and prodding at all the nooks and crannies that once were untouchable...because He can. Because I trust Him to. Trust. What a mighty thing.

Still fuckin' amazes me. Probably always will.

~anelize

Click to expand...

WOW!!! That's exactly it! AnelizeDarkEyes quote is perfect!

my checklist was for myself as much as anything & due to limited experience. It certainly gave me a chance to think. As a (pyl) i needed to figure myself out first before i could move forward.

This came in an email to me & i don't know if it was directly from the person who sent it or if it is a quote from something. (Anyone, feel free to fill me in.) Referring to Dom/mes:

"Before you can take control of someone, they must make that control over themselves available for you to take.

This isn't necessarily a conscious decision on their part and, if they are not experienced in such things, is likely *not* to be conscious."​

*just a little aside*

This thread has been really interesting. I once thought I had very few limits because, quite honestly, I hadn't even thought of many of the possibilities. And I am sure there are more that I have not thought of, as I am still rather inexperienced

Anyway, my hard limits are:

scat

extreme exhibitionism or acts in public - I have a child and she is the number one priority in my life . . . I am not going to risk having to explain to her one day why mommy was arrested

needles, cutting, or burning - I am a recovering self-injurer. I have been safe for over 4 years now and these things could quite easily become triggers. I can't take that chance.

Soft limits:

choking - I mentioned in another thread that I have a problem with this right now because of a phobia and anything around my neck causes panic attacks. This is, however, something I intend to work on and overcome.

The only other thing is that I ask for consideration of a couple physical ailments. I have arthritus in my right knee and sciatica. I can endure quite a bit, as I have a high tolerance of pain and a refusal to allow pain to dictate my life. However there are times when it is bad, and I need a rest.

Because my only bdsm scenes are with my husband who is not really Dom, my limits are not a concern. In fact, he has way more than I do But if pushed, those are what I know for the moment.

I do not believe that a person is not a sub because of limits. Even if I was not married, I would never submit to a Dom/me that could not respect my limits. I agree completely with what curious said not moving forward if one needed something for fulfillment that the other was unwilling to do. I have my limits for a reason and if a Dom/me could not respect that he/she is not the right one for me. It is, again as curious said, about compatibility.

~Blacklace~ said:

You have no limits? Or you mean you have no limits because thats not whats 'allowed' as in the case of a slave as you said. I dont recall if yours was slave or sub Cat, sorry! And didnt I read awhile back that your topping?And I agree with the diferentiation (sp? lol) between sub/slave limits/ no limits.

Click to expand...

Have no limits as I gave up the right to them long ago. He did caution me at the time, but damned if I'm not attracted to a good challenge so decided to stick with my decision to surrender totally. And yes, I am a slave...one of his challenges for me has been to order me to top others...so far they have survived well and liked what they got.

Catalina

Face slapping - goes too close to the line of abuse for us both. So we don't go there. Hair pulling, caning, cropping, all fine but anything to do with my face is a no-no.

Humiliation - Apart from gentle teasing, in private, humiliation is a hard limit for me. I spent 23 years in a mentally abusive marriage and my self esteem is still somewhat damaged. So we leave that part out of the equation.

Breath play/choking - A bad experience (near drowning) as a child means not being able to breathe is something which causes me extreme panic. I am able to enjoy face fucking, however we have a signal (3 taps on His leg or butt) which means I am having trouble and He will pull back and slow things down.

Extremely tight breast bondage - I've seen pics of engorged purple breasts and have no desire to have that done to me. I've had some shibari done once but it was more decorative than tight around my breasts

Scat, watersports, blood, needles No, just........no. He shares my limits on these so will not be happening.

Just about ALL of my limits have to do with being shy and / or protecting my privacy in public, or at work and my identity online.

Otherwise even if I don't want to do something, my attitude is, if it's important to YOU, I'll do my best and I'll certainly try it, at least three times, cause you don't always get everything right the first or second time. I've probably been fantasizing about it anyway, no matter how taboo I think it is. Hell especially if I think it's taboo!

Also I often say, I don't know how I'll react to something until we try it. That face slapping thing, due to past abuse, I'm really, really, really, not sure what I'd do on it. If he wants to try and find out, he can. He usually isn't into such things, I usually have to ask for things like that, but there it is. I told him the same damn thing about spanking and he did take me up on it.

Fury

As a dom, I don't have much use for limits. I just won't do anything that hurts people not involved, involves a degree of real nonconsent or will land me in jail.

I do think faceslapping has the potential to be hot, but I don't know how to do it yet, and not sure if I can find someone to do it to.

I have several limits. But beyond that if I was looking for a new relationship for whatever reason and i was looking for a slave relationship (which I wouldn't) I'd be careful to find a man with the same limits as me. If you're going into a slave relationship where you plan on giving up total control you want to make sure that you can stand to have your dom/me in complete control.

As for what my limits are, I'm not going to say them outloud. My limits keep changing, and I refuse to embarrass myself anymore saying "I'LL NEVER DO THAT!", and then doing what I was yelling about. The obvious limits are there (no kids or animals), though.

Generally I don't do things that would prevent me from looking in the mirror the next day. I don't strain the issue of consent, I dont involve those who don't want to be involved or should not be involved, and no animals are harmed in the filming. I inform people of possible risks and I also trust my bottoms with their own risk-taking after enough discussion.

Blood, trampling, danger, breathplay - in the RIGHT circumstances, with people who are informed and in it with me for reasons I can trust and understand - there are few things that I'd say "never" to, a lot of things I will pass up in context.

Absolutely, postively nothing involving Russian roulette.

Or the color orange.

I prefer soft limits - the knees aren't so bad and they add a little dynamic amphasis as opposed to hard limits which can be jarring.

Now, to read the first post.

My hard limits are the normal ones: death, dismemberment, cannibalism, kids, and scat... plus one unusual one (learned from bad experience) which is shaving my pubic hair. That guarantees my partner that I will absolutely not let him see me naked for the next two weeks. Ewww. And ouch.

You know what's weird about hard limits, though? Even though I really mean "never" when I say I'll never do those things, I do sometimes like talking at them. Like if a Dom says, "You'd be lucky if I killed you." That can totally turn me on.

I'm sure I'm not the only one!