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03-31-2006, 08:02 AM
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#126
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stuponfucious
No, seriously.
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This isn't communicating much to me. |
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03-31-2006, 08:27 AM
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#127
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Bite my shiny metal ass!
John Doe is offline
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New New York
Posts: 52,321
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Peregrinator
This isn't communicating much to me.
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Yeah, that's what I've been thinking about "because it's there."
Can any climbers come up with a real answer or is that it?
I mean, I could see climbing a mountain before anyone else has done it, but going up there in teams the same route hundreds of others have climbed successfully? Where's the fun in that? Yeah sure, it's kinda dangerous and I guess you could die, but what do you accomplish, besides suffocating millions of brain cells, which ironically leaves you with even fewer faculties than when you first decided to go up?
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03-31-2006, 08:32 AM
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#128
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Stud Muffin
Songcatcher is offline
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,151
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It won't be there when it's dead.
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03-31-2006, 08:49 AM
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#129
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stuponfucious
Yeah, that's what I've been thinking about "because it's there."
Can any climbers come up with a real answer or is that it?
I mean, I could see climbing a mountain before anyone else has done it, but going up there in teams the same route hundreds of others have climbed successfully? Where's the fun in that? Yeah sure, it's kinda dangerous and I guess you could die, but what do you accomplish, besides suffocating millions of brain cells, which ironically leaves you with even fewer faculties than when you first decided to go up?
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At least I understand the question now. Actually, when Mallory said that, he was planning to be the first up Everest. Um...dies in the attempt as well, so I guess we can each use him as an example, huh?
For me there's the joy of experiencing the scenery, the feeling of openness, the views. I agree with part of your question; I'm not wild about crowded routes on popular mountains. It's why if I went back to Alaska I'd choose a different route on Denali, and why I'm really unlikely ever to go to Everest. It's also, as an aside, why I don't care much for downhill skiing any more, the crowds, the machines.
As far as what you accomplish, I think I already answered this, but the answer is nothing, really.
You're essentially talking about mountaineering, which for many climbers is a different sport from rock climbing or sport climbing. Folks who climb difficult steep terrain get the same sense of accomplishment that a martial artist gets; joy of movement, the perfection of technique, the gradual overcoming of obstacles of ability. Probably the most distilled essence of this is bouldering, in which very hard moves are practiced on very short routes so no rope is necessary. Some folks specialize in bouldering and can do amazing things:
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03-31-2006, 08:50 AM
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#130
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Songcatcher
It won't be there when it's dead.
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Mountains die? |
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03-31-2006, 12:03 PM
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#131
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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03-31-2006, 12:07 PM
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#132
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
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03-31-2006, 12:09 PM
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#133
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
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[IMG]http://www*****ject-himalaya.com/images/makalu-high-camp.jpg[/IMG]
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03-31-2006, 12:13 PM
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#134
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Dirty Grandma...
crazybbwgirl is offline
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Ohio
Posts: 31,020
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OMG - my daughter better not be doing anything like what's in those pictures!!!!!
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NOTICE: The intolerant will no longer be tolerated.
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The Mother Theresa of fellatio.
Stories
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03-31-2006, 12:19 PM
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#135
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Colna-go-go-go!
atmas is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Head in the clouds, feet in the shit.
Posts: 14,382
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I have a question: How come tall climbers can reach higher holds more easily, but don't claim to have an advantage?
(Socratic irony).
Think I'll get the grigri out and do some roped soloing this weekend. Yup.
__________________
The world could end tomorrow, and all we'd want today is to find solace in our lover's arms.
Killing time beautifully
I have loved to the point of madness; that which is called madness, that which to me, is the only sensible way to love. - Francoise Sagan
When from our better selves we have too long
Been parted by the hurrying world, and droop,
Sick of its business, of its pleasures tired,
How gracious, how benign, is Solitude.
- Wordsworth
When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. - Ezekiel 1:21
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03-31-2006, 12:22 PM
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#136
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by crazybbwgirl
OMG - my daughter better not be doing anything like what's in those pictures!!!!!
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It's pretty unlikely. Those are pics of some famous places, and not easy stuff at all.
Porn for climbers. |
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03-31-2006, 12:23 PM
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#137
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by atmas
I have a question: How come tall climbers can reach higher holds more easily, but don't claim to have an advantage?
(Socratic irony).
Think I'll get the grigri out and do some roped soloing this weekend. Yup.
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hehe. Beth Rodden is 5'1". phtfthftfhtfththfthfhthfht.
Good idea. Maybe I'll get off the couch or something. |
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03-31-2006, 12:36 PM
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#138
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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03-31-2006, 12:49 PM
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#139
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Colna-go-go-go!
atmas is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Head in the clouds, feet in the shit.
Posts: 14,382
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Peregrinator
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Do we know this person? The slab looks so familiar.
__________________
The world could end tomorrow, and all we'd want today is to find solace in our lover's arms.
Killing time beautifully
I have loved to the point of madness; that which is called madness, that which to me, is the only sensible way to love. - Francoise Sagan
When from our better selves we have too long
Been parted by the hurrying world, and droop,
Sick of its business, of its pleasures tired,
How gracious, how benign, is Solitude.
- Wordsworth
When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. - Ezekiel 1:21
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03-31-2006, 01:11 PM
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#140
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by atmas
Do we know this person? The slab looks so familiar.
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Random Google pull. I think that's Indian Creek. |
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03-31-2006, 01:50 PM
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#141
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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03-31-2006, 05:26 PM
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#142
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Mr. Cheyenne
patient1 is online now
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: undisputedly cute couple
Posts: 8,779
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Peregrinator
It's a way of challenging yourself. When Reinhold Messner first climbed E without gas, he opened the eyes of the entire climbing world to a new kind of challenge, what he called "climbing by fair means," or not leveling the playing field with technology instead of personal ability and courage. The folks who climb without oxygen are of an elite class of athletes similar to tour de France riders or Olympic endurance athletes.
Once you've climbed something of a certain level of challenge and succeeded, you tend to want to try the next harder thing.
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I read "In to Thin Air".
Is that the philosophy that prevents everybody from having radios & Gps units up there in case of emergency, or has that changed now as a result of the tragedy?
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03-31-2006, 05:43 PM
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#143
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sacrilegious
sexy-girl is offline
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 19,623
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mountain climbing books are cool ... "touching the void" (i read it before the film) gives a good sense of why people climb
i'm just starting to read "the white spider" quite an old fashioned climbing book
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04-02-2006, 01:04 AM
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#144
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by patient1
I read "In to Thin Air".
Is that the philosophy that prevents everybody from having radios & Gps units up there in case of emergency, or has that changed now as a result of the tragedy?
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Most climbers have radio contact with base camp, at least a radio for every two or three climbers, on the really huge mountains. GPS is increasingly common as well, I believe. We had several on my last trip, and a bunch of those little "walkabout" type frs radios.
There are several problems with them and cell phones in places where there's service. One is that they don't always work; variable coverage/terrain/weather can cause serious wierdness with all of them. Another is batteries; we had two solar panels and I couldn't keep my camera charged. It's cold in them thar hills.
Probably the biggest is the illusion of safety; if the climbers on the South Col had had radios--and some of them did, I think--so what? No one can climb hard and fast enough to rescue someone in a place like that. In fact, that's why Rob Hall died while talking with friends on the radio. They had amazing technology; they were able to patch him through to his wife in New Zealand, but no one was able to go get him. Some of the folks who were out in the storm may have benefitted from GPS units to get back to the tents, probably, but that's kind of like saying once the Titanic went down, the lifeboats would be improved by stocks of food. It kind of misses the larger issue of mismanagement of the entire climb, ignoring the weather, etc. The '96 "debacle" is seen by most climbers as evidence of overcrowding and pushing too hard, amateurs out of their league.
In the end, they're useful tools, but knowing your gps coordinates and being able to talk to someone on the radio aren't always going to help. Self-reliance is incredibly important in the mountains. |
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04-02-2006, 01:08 AM
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#145
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sexy-girl
mountain climbing books are cool ... "touching the void" (i read it before the film) gives a good sense of why people climb
i'm just starting to read "the white spider" quite an old fashioned climbing book
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Great books; Touching is an incredible story, a true testament to unbelievable grit and unwillingness to give up.
I haven't read Spider, but it's one of the great classics. The North Face of the Eiger is a truly awe-inspiring climb. You may want to read and then see Seven Years In Tibet. |
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04-02-2006, 01:16 AM
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#146
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by patient1
I read "In to Thin Air".
Is that the philosophy that prevents everybody from having radios & Gps units up there in case of emergency, or has that changed now as a result of the tragedy?
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I just reread my answer and realised it doesn't directly address your question.
I don't know that there's a direct link between "climbing by fair means" and not using radios or GPS. The philosophy refers more to climbers using things that aid them artificially in progressing upwards. Messner may or may not have used a radio then (GPS was unavailable to civilians at the time), but his statement would have remained the same either way; a guy and an ice ax climbed a mountain without an army of porters and fixed ropes and oxygen and...whatever.
There's a school of thought in climbing that the lighter and faster you climb, the safer you are. It places more of the hazards in your control, and shortens your time exposed to hazards you can't control, like weather. The more weight you're carrying, the slower you move, so the more likely you are to still be at the top of the Hillary Step when the weather goes to shit. Recall from Into Thin Air that Krakauer, a sensible and experienced mountaineer, got his ass up and down on schedule and was worried about the weather. Hence, he was in his sleeping bag and sucking oxygen while people were dying who were slower or less experienced. |
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04-02-2006, 05:45 AM
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#147
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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04-02-2006, 05:46 AM
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#148
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Kids love climbing...no fear, and they move naturally. It's amazing to see what they can do.
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04-02-2006, 05:47 AM
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#149
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Some lines just scream to be climbed, like this buttress at Smith Rock State Park in central Oregon:
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04-02-2006, 05:50 AM
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#150
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Singin' in the spring...
Peregrinator is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Look at how red I am.
Posts: 90,527
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Same as the above, but zoomed out.
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