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Old 03-28-2006, 02:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrinator
I assume you mean HAPE and HACE?

They're significant hazards at igher altitudes, but if you're vigilant, they're generally unnecessary. You can almost always get down in time to avoid any serious issues with them. Acclimitization goes a long way toward prevention as well.

The Death Zone refers to the region above 18,000 feet, where the human body is unable to further acclimatize, and wounds don't heal. Digestion becomes difficult.

It's the main reason other than weather that the really high mountains are a very different kind of challenge. I'd go, with the right people and if someone else paid for it.
Yep, that should have been a "P" instead of an "H" - cerebral and pulmonary.

The rest I technically get, it's the folks that decide to go up Everest without oxygen, knowing it's going to starve them of every capacity and most likely kill them, that makes for insanity.

Maybe if all peaks were below this height, we wouldn't have a problem, but constantly always going for bigger and better...that I don't get.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrinator
You hold it until you have a chance to pee. In particularly sensitive ecosystems, people pee in bottles and carry it out.
Why pee in a bottle and carry it? Can't you just piss against the mountain or into the wind?

Wait, what's a particulary sensitive ecosystem?
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcheeba
Why pee in a bottle and carry it? Can't you just piss against the mountain or into the wind?

Wait, what's a particulary sensitive ecosystem?
Of course, on Everest, they leave bodies and empty oxygen bottles everywhere.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcheeba
Hi Pere.

How do you condition for a "climb"... err, what's your regimen before an expedition?

Are there times when you get exhausted and wonder, 'Why am I up here doing this? I need a nap but I have to stay focused.'

If so, what do you to stay alert and up for it all?
I'm a terrible role model for this.

Depends on the type of climbing; if it's mountaineering, your best bet is to train to carry heavy loads uphill forever. If it's so-called "technical" climbing, ie rock or ice, calisthnics with lots of pull-ups and calf raises are usually part of the routing. Climbing invloves a lot of muscular endurance; hanging from one hand with most of your weight on small edges underfoot while fiddling with gear. That kind of thing.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrinator
Not that I recall, but I've definitely had moments where if I were so inclined I would have. There are times when if you fall, you're going to fall a long way, and you're not sure you can climb any further as a result of exhaustion or ability, and your legs start shaking ("Elvis" or "sewing machine" leg), your hands sweat, your brain starts seizing up. Climbing is a seriously mental game.

It's kind of comparable to tightrope walking; I know that you could walk fifteen feet along a two-by-four laying on the ground. Try it stretched between two telephone poles.
Whenever I think of climbing, I remember a time when I was really little and me and my older brother had gotten on the roof of our garage. The sides were super, super steep and I somehow got myself all the way down to the gutter and I couldn't jump off because it was too far. So I had to climb up that norrow SOB with absolutely nothing to hold on to until I could shimmy over the side. It was so scary and I remember feeling so helpless...that's why I don't really like climbing anything but trees.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:54 PM   #31
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:56 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcheeba
Hi Pere.

How do you condition for a "climb"... err, what's your regimen before an expedition?

Are there times when you get exhausted and wonder, 'Why am I up here doing this? I need a nap but I have to stay focused.'

If so, what do you to stay alert and up for it all?
I'm a terrible role model for this.

Depends on the type of climbing; if it's mountaineering, your best bet is to train to carry heavy loads uphill forever. If it's so-called "technical" climbing, ie rock or ice, calisthnics with lots of pull-ups and calf raises are usually part of the routing. Climbing invloves a lot of muscular endurance; hanging from one hand with most of your weight on small edges underfoot while fiddling with gear. That kind of thing.

There are definitely times when you're tired like that. It's axiomatic that climbing accidents occur on the way down. Another part of the mental game; staying focused when you're exhausted, hungry, tired, cold, hypoxic.

I just...stay focused. I don't know how to explain it. I concentrate hard.
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"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
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There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:56 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidiva
Of course, on Everest, they leave bodies and empty oxygen bottles everywhere.
Heh...
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcheeba
Why pee in a bottle and carry it? Can't you just piss against the mountain or into the wind?
warmth.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:57 PM   #35
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Q---do you lose your climbing superpowers if you take off your panty mask?
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeahLo519
Whenever I think of climbing, I remember a time when I was really little and me and my older brother had gotten on the roof of our garage. The sides were super, super steep and I somehow got myself all the way down to the gutter and I couldn't jump off because it was too far. So I had to climb up that norrow SOB with absolutely nothing to hold on to until I could shimmy over the side. It was so scary and I remember feeling so helpless...that's why I don't really like climbing anything but trees.
I hate climbing, period.

Remember in gym class when we had to climb that knotted rope hanging from the ceiling - and it hurt your hands but yet you just HAD to do it? I hated that because I saw no purpose for it. Monkey bars, fine. But I wondered what the point with cutting up my hands like that.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidiva
Yep, that should have been a "P" instead of an "H" - cerebral and pulmonary.

The rest I technically get, it's the folks that decide to go up Everest without oxygen, knowing it's going to starve them of every capacity and most likely kill them, that makes for insanity.

Maybe if all peaks were below this height, we wouldn't have a problem, but constantly always going for bigger and better...that I don't get.
It's a way of challenging yourself. When Reinhold Messner first climbed E without gas, he opened the eyes of the entire climbing world to a new kind of challenge, what he called "climbing by fair means," or not leveling the playing field with technology instead of personal ability and courage. The folks who climb without oxygen are of an elite class of athletes similar to tour de France riders or Olympic endurance athletes.

Once you've climbed something of a certain level of challenge and succeeded, you tend to want to try the next harder thing.
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My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcheeba
Why pee in a bottle and carry it? Can't you just piss against the mountain or into the wind?

Wait, what's a particulary sensitive ecosystem?
Sure you can, but you're possibly pissing on other climbers below you, or on a spot where they have to climb later, or whatever. People certainly do it.

www.leavenotrace.org

In some ecosystems, including deserts and high mountains, the salt and stuff in urine can kill plants, draw animls to lick the salt, etc.
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My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrinator
It's a way of challenging yourself. When Reinhold Messner first climbed E without gas, he opened the eyes of the entire climbing world to a new kind of challenge, what he called "climbing by fair means," or not leveling the playing field with technology instead of personal ability and courage. The folks who climb without oxygen are of an elite class of athletes similar to tour de France riders or Olympic endurance athletes.

Once you've climbed something of a certain level of challenge and succeeded, you tend to want to try the next harder thing.
Actually, the Sherpas did the whole climbing without oxygen first.

But they kinda had to.

Only crazy rich people do it on purpose.
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidiva
Of course, on Everest, they leave bodies and empty oxygen bottles everywhere.

There are a lot of climbers who disparage this and many programs to clean them up. My favorite is the group that pays porters per pound for trash they carry down.
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My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:03 PM   #41
LeahLo519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcheeba
I hate climbing, period.

Remember in gym class when we had to climb that knotted rope hanging from the ceiling - and it hurt your hands but yet you just HAD to do it? I hated that because I saw no purpose for it. Monkey bars, fine. But I wondered what the point with cutting up my hands like that.
I told my gym teacher that I wasn't doing it and that if he wanted to make me, he could go ahead and get on the phone with my parents. I have absolutely no upper body strength and have never had much hope of gaining any through exercise so I basically told him to fuck off.

That and I hated doing it too.
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hester
Q---do you lose your climbing superpowers if you take off your panty mask?
I can't answer this...it's a secret.
__________________
My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:05 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeahLo519
Whenever I think of climbing, I remember a time when I was really little and me and my older brother had gotten on the roof of our garage. The sides were super, super steep and I somehow got myself all the way down to the gutter and I couldn't jump off because it was too far. So I had to climb up that norrow SOB with absolutely nothing to hold on to until I could shimmy over the side. It was so scary and I remember feeling so helpless...that's why I don't really like climbing anything but trees.
You were climbing slightly beyond your mental game but well within physical abilities. Fun, isn't it?
__________________
My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catfish
Why do the Braves seem to collapse in the playoffs?
They used to be a Boston team.
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My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:07 PM   #45
LeahLo519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrinator
You were climbing slightly beyond your mental game but well within physical abilities. Fun, isn't it?
No...no, it wasn't fun. LoL I was terrified.
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:07 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrinator
In this thread, I will attempt to answer your questions about the craft of moving on technically challenging terrain in the mountains. Rock, Ice, Snow, Altitude...what do you want to know?

Ask away.
Have you ever hiked any glaciers in Alaska?

If not, do you plan on doing so before they recede into nothingness?

Do you face climb?

Give me an example of an experience that really caused you to respect the wrath that Mother Nature may offer.
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:07 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidiva
Actually, the Sherpas did the whole climbing without oxygen first.

But they kinda had to.

Only crazy rich people do it on purpose.
The Sherpa didn't climb mountains before the Euros came and hired them, and they didn't use oxygen because they weren't going as high.

Tenzing Norgay used oxygen when he climbed Everest with Hillary.
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My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:08 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeahLo519
I told my gym teacher that I wasn't doing it and that if he wanted to make me, he could go ahead and get on the phone with my parents. I have absolutely no upper body strength and have never had much hope of gaining any through exercise so I basically told him to fuck off.

That and I hated doing it too.
A climber's secret: keep the weight on your feet.
__________________
My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:09 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeahLo519
No...no, it wasn't fun. LoL I was terrified.
Adrenaline rush. Climbers are generally noradrenaline junkies.
__________________
My father considered a walk among
the mountains as the equivalent
of churchgoing. ~Aldous Huxley

"Your amiable slut makes the best of cooks."
~Dr. Steven Maturin, in The Surgeon's Mate, by Patrick O'Brian

"I saw you earlier, on the Discovery channel. You were terrorizing the nesting seabirds on the cliffs. You were totally awesome when you caught one of those somebitches in midair."
~StonedFox, to me.

There are some whose words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
"You're confident but kind, articulate and slightly bent."
~SheRem, to me.





This is what some of me looks like. Some twat's tits!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:11 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeahLo519
I told my gym teacher that I wasn't doing it and that if he wanted to make me, he could go ahead and get on the phone with my parents. I have absolutely no upper body strength and have never had much hope of gaining any through exercise so I basically told him to fuck off.

That and I hated doing it too.
lol.

I always aced gym class... but I mostly hated swimming because I had gym class 1st period one year and 2nd period the next and there was never enough time to do my hair and put on some make-up so I always faked being on my period (male teacher understood, female teach handed me a tampon and told me to deal, she was slick) or having cramps. Looking back, I don't know why I didn't demand my counselor to give me gym 6th period. Anyway, sorry Pere.... on with the discussion at hand.
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