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Old 03-18-2014, 07:46 PM   #1
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Femdom F/m stories that female dominants actually like?

As a submissive male that's fairly new here, I've gotten an impression (not a strong one, but an impression nonetheless) that a lot of the F/m stories on here are written by submissive males and, for various reasons not heavily read by dominant females.

Is there any truth to this? I've read a few posts by dominant females stating they are either bored by, or just not interested in these stories. I can certainly see why: as a submissive male, a lot of my fantasies can be fairly self indulgent and probably just not very interesting for the dominant female.

I'd be curious to know how dominant females feel about this, and would be interested in what sort of F/m stories on here, if any, do appeal to you.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:22 PM   #2
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I'm a male and have to agree with you, unfortunately. Hopefully someone will prove us wrong.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:48 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by subwannabe View Post
I'm a male and have to agree with you, unfortunately. Hopefully someone will prove us wrong.
Yeah, you come on here, as a sub male, hoping to expose yourself (not necessarily literally) to dominant females, and you end up with the sneaking suspicion that all of the F/m material on here is written by other males and not even read by the females. Sigh...
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:59 PM   #4
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Psst-- you might try to start using "men" and "women" instead of "males" and "females". It sounds a lot less alienating and wank-foddery.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by KoPilot View Post
Psst-- you might try to start using "men" and "women" instead of "males" and "females". It sounds a lot less alienating and wank-foddery.
Psst-- you might try not dispensing such unsolicited and condescending advice. It would make you sound a lot less alienating and dick baggish.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by liv2srv View Post
As a submissive male that's fairly new here, I've gotten an impression (not a strong one, but an impression nonetheless) that a lot of the F/m stories on here are written by submissive males and, for various reasons not heavily read by dominant females.

Is there any truth to this? I've read a few posts by dominant females stating they are either bored by, or just not interested in these stories. I can certainly see why: as a submissive male, a lot of my fantasies can be fairly self indulgent and probably just not very interesting for the dominant female.

I'd be curious to know how dominant females feel about this, and would be interested in what sort of F/m stories on here, if any, do appeal to you.
Have you read any of Bitchy Jones's Diary? Even though not all of it is available online any more, she's got some salient points about different perspectives of femdom.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by GrrlFriday View Post
Have you read any of Bitchy Jones's Diary? Even though not all of it is available online any more, she's got some salient points about different perspectives of femdom.
I'll give it a look. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GrrlFriday View Post
Have you read any of Bitchy Jones's Diary? Even though not all of it is available online any more, she's got some salient points about different perspectives of femdom.
Very cool!
I just read her post on why she thinks strap-ons suck.
Thanks for the recommendation. That's exactly the kind of alternate perspective I was hoping to get exposed to through a thread like this!
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:01 PM   #9
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Yeah... most men-- and women too-- say "submitting' when what they really mean is 'bottoming.' there's an essay in my sig on the subject.

Quote:
the sneaking suspicion that all of the F/m material on here is written by other males and not even read by the females. Sigh...
Indeed. Since "Venus in Furs" in fact, male masochism has been all about what men want. And honestly, the moment women started writing, their stories have been about what they want. And it's nearly always to recieve-- which is not the same as submitting, but currently we have an information gap about that.

Why don't women write about topping or dominating? Well, they do, but they most often write about it from the point of view of a man, usually with another man, what we call "slash." There are a lot of reasons for this, not all of them the healthiest of reasons, IMO, but--there it is. Unless a guy is willing to read homo-erotica, he's not very likely to find out what women think about being the one in charge.

Dominating a guy, owning him, that element does show up in a lot of stuff, but if you blink you're likely to miss it. Again, it gets pretty heavily coded.

After saying all of that, I have written some het FemDom stuff. It's not on lit, but on my blog; http://stellaomega.com/fantasia/ The damn thing never went anywhere, I ran out of steam...

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Originally Posted by liv2srv View Post
Psst-- you might try not dispensing such unsolicited and condescending advice. It would make you sound a lot less alienating and dick baggish.
KoPilot is right, though.

It can be very off-putting to a woman to hear herself referred to in that clinical way, even if you weren't talking about her specifically. "Female" refers to one aspect of a species' procreative ability. When we are speaking about domination pregnancy is not generally the first thing on her mind.

it's a recent usage, and I would love to see it go away some.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
It can be very off-putting to a woman to hear herself referred to in that clinical way, even if you weren't talking about her specifically. "Female" refers to one aspect of a species' procreative ability. When we are speaking about domination pregnancy is not generally the first thing on her mind.

it's a recent usage, and I would love to see it go away some.
Not that I'm a femdom, but it is sort of dehumanizing, which is the point I was trying to make, OP. If you're wanting to address women, not using clinical--and alienating--terms like that is a starting point toward making your discussion more welcoming to them.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Yeah... most men-- and women too-- say "submitting' when what they really mean is 'bottoming.' there's an essay in my sig on the subject.

Indeed. Since "Venus in Furs" in fact, male masochism has been all about what men want. And honestly, the moment women started writing, their stories have been about what they want. And it's nearly always to recieve-- which is not the same as submitting, but currently we have an information gap about that.

Why don't women write about topping or dominating? Well, they do, but they most often write about it from the point of view of a man, usually with another man, what we call "slash." There are a lot of reasons for this, not all of them the healthiest of reasons, IMO, but--there it is. Unless a guy is willing to read homo-erotica, he's not very likely to find out what women think about being the one in charge.

Dominating a guy, owning him, that element does show up in a lot of stuff, but if you blink you're likely to miss it. Again, it gets pretty heavily coded.

After saying all of that, I have written some het FemDom stuff. It's not on lit, but on my blog; http://stellaomega.com/fantasia/ The damn thing never went anywhere, I ran out of steam...

KoPilot is right, though.

It can be very off-putting to a woman to hear herself referred to in that clinical way, even if you weren't talking about her specifically. "Female" refers to one aspect of a species' procreative ability. When we are speaking about domination pregnancy is not generally the first thing on her mind.

it's a recent usage, and I would love to see it go away some.
First, thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts with me (and doing so in a way that doesn't make me feel talked down to )

Secondly, you're talking a ways over my head about a lot of the stuff (that's in no way a criticism or suggestion that you're being needlessly unhelpful, merely an acknowledgement that I'm the ignorant noob here). So, if you'd be willing to indulge me, might I ask for a little clarification on some points?

"Information gap"??? I understand how receiving doesn't necessarily imply submission. But the meaning of the 'information gap' phrase still eludes me.

I appreciate your comment regarding KoPilot. But, if, again, I may plead ignorance, it sounds like the objection is specifically to the term "female"? Not to the "male/female" convention? In other words the term "male" isn't really what you're objecting to here. Is that right?
Also, if I'm understanding correctly, the main objection to the term 'female' is that it is more a descriptive term regarding a woman's ability to reproduce more than anything else? I can see this. But isn't the way the term "woman" is derived from the word "man" equally offensive when viewed by those same standards?

Thanks again for your insights.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:29 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by KoPilot View Post
Not that I'm a femdom, but it is sort of dehumanizing, which is the point I was trying to make, OP. If you're wanting to address women, not using clinical--and alienating--terms like that is a starting point toward making your discussion more welcoming to them.
I can appreciate that. But I'm the one here who is absolutely taking responsibility for my ignorance and inexperience. That's one of the reasons I started this thread. Just speaking for myself, I'd say conversation with you would be much more welcoming if you were to grant us newbies, who might not know all of your conventions yet, a little bit of leeway and consideration.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:59 PM   #13
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An information gap is the space between what you know now, and what you need to know. (and I use the phrase 'need to know' because I'm coming at it from a curiosity perspective - presumably, the searcher has decided what they need to know.) You might like to watch this video, it explains the concept fairly easily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR48Zb9mvFE
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:15 PM   #14
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Talking

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Originally Posted by liv2srv View Post
First, thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts with me (and doing so in a way that doesn't make me feel talked down to )

Secondly, you're talking a ways over my head about a lot of the stuff (that's in no way a criticism or suggestion that you're being needlessly unhelpful, merely an acknowledgement that I'm the ignorant noob here). So, if you'd be willing to indulge me, might I ask for a little clarification on some points?

"Information gap"??? I understand how receiving doesn't necessarily imply submission. But the meaning of the 'information gap' phrase still eludes me.
By "information gap" i mean that in general, people in this community don't understand the difference between recieving and submitting, and they use the word "sub" to refer to both activities, and 'dom' to their corollaries.
As in the happily excited young woman who told me; "It was great! He dommed me for a while and then I dommed him!" When in fact there had been no submitting or domination going on at all, only a mighty exploration of physical funsies.
Quote:
I appreciate your comment regarding KoPilot. But, if, again, I may plead ignorance, it sounds like the objection is specifically to the term "female"? Not to the "male/female" convention? In other words the term "male" isn't really what you're objecting to here. Is that right?
Also, if I'm understanding correctly, the main objection to the term 'female' is that it is more a descriptive term regarding a woman's ability to reproduce more than anything else? I can see this. But isn't the way the term "woman" is derived from the word "man" equally offensive when viewed by those same standards?

Thanks again for your insights.
I personally object to both. I do not know one single man whom I would define by his children, ignoring all else about him.

But we were talking about why women in particular might be getting tired of the usage. And since your object is to please women in particular...

after a certain PM conversation, it occurs to me that you will find some amount of femdom, written by women, in the Buffy The Vampire Slayer fan fiction community. That would be Buffy/Spike, most often, and any woman/Zander. Google around a bit...
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by liv2srv View Post
I appreciate your comment regarding KoPilot. But, if, again, I may plead ignorance, it sounds like the objection is specifically to the term "female"? Not to the "male/female" convention? In other words the term "male" isn't really what you're objecting to here. Is that right?
Also, if I'm understanding correctly, the main objection to the term 'female' is that it is more a descriptive term regarding a woman's ability to reproduce more than anything else? I can see this. But isn't the way the term "woman" is derived from the word "man" equally offensive when viewed by those same standards?

Thanks again for your insights.
It helps to remember that male and female are best used when adjectives. So, "male sub" and "submissive man".
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:27 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
By "information gap" i mean that in general, people in this community don't understand the difference between recieving and submitting, and they use the word "sub" to refer to both activities, and 'dom' to their corollaries.
As in the happily excited young woman who told me; "It was great! He dommed me for a while and then I dommed him!" When in fact there had been no submitting or domination going on at all, only a mighty exploration of physical funsies. I personally object to both. I do not know one single man whom I would define by his children, ignoring all else about him.

But we were talking about why women in particular might be getting tired of the usage. And since your object is to please women in particular...

after a certain PM conversation, it occurs to me that you will find some amount of femdom, written by women, in the Buffy The Vampire Slayer fan fiction community. That would be Buffy/Spike, most often, and any woman/Zander. Google around a bit...
Again, thanks for indulging me.

I get the general concept of info gap. I was just a little nonplussed because, to me, in my terrific ignorance , it seems fairly obvious that being penetrated doesn't have to connote submission.

I tend to not get too hung up on semantics (maybe to my peril in a forum such as this, as you've pointed out ). I tend to think all languages are profoundly limiting and do more to obscure true communication than to nurture it. As such, I just resign myself to that fact, and continue on with the archaic, outmoded language of our forefathers (forepersons?). I think Khalil Ghibran said it best when he said: "We shall never understand one another until we reduce the language to seven words". Barring that, my language choice might remain fairly unenlightened and Neanderthal.

Thanks again.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:41 PM   #17
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I think Khalil Ghibran said it best when he said: "We shall never understand one another until we reduce the language to seven words".
Notice it took him twice that many words to say it.

Nah, it's bullshit. She can grab your ears and steer your tongue to the right spot, of course, but how is she supposed to tell you to lick a little harder, that's it, don't stop, don'tstopifyoustopI'llfucking killyou-- in bird calls?
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:55 PM   #18
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Indeed. Since "Venus in Furs" in fact, male masochism has been all about what men want. And honestly, the moment women started writing, their stories have been about what they want. And it's nearly always to recieve-- which is not the same as submitting, but currently we have an information gap about that.

Why don't women write about topping or dominating? Well, they do, but they most often write about it from the point of view of a man, usually with another man, what we call "slash." There are a lot of reasons for this, not all of them the healthiest of reasons, IMO, but--there it is. Unless a guy is willing to read homo-erotica, he's not very likely to find out what women think about being the one in charge.

Dominating a guy, owning him, that element does show up in a lot of stuff, but if you blink you're likely to miss it. Again, it gets pretty heavily coded.
I was really disappointed at the ending of Venus in Furs - if women have to wait until universal equality (can't remember the phrase he used) is reached before we can dominate anyone, then there won't be any at all!
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:58 PM   #19
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Notice it took him twice that many words to say it.

Nah, it's bullshit. She can grab your ears and steer your tongue to the right spot, of course, but how is she supposed to tell you to lick a little harder, that's it, don't stop, don'tstopifyoustopI'llfucking killyou-- in bird calls?
Wow. And to think I thought I was the ignorant one here...

Seeing as most of you have reveled in dispensing unasked-for advice and have yet to even come close to answering my original question, I can only assume you are typical doctrinaires, more caught up in enforcing the dogma of your own exclusive clique than engaging in a meaningful exchange of ideas.

I leave you to your sad, fanatical, calcified world. Enjoy it.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:49 PM   #20
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I was really disappointed at the ending of Venus in Furs - if women have to wait until universal equality (can't remember the phrase he used) is reached before we can dominate anyone, then there won't be any at all!
heh if you think that's disappointing, you should read his biography. You won't know who to feel sorriest for- him and his unfulfilled dreams of being killed by a cold and cruel woman, or his wife that he tried to force into the part.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:09 AM   #21
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I think Khalil Ghibran said it best when he said: "We shall never understand one another until we reduce the language to seven words". Barring that, my language choice might remain fairly unenlightened and Neanderthal.
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Notice it took him twice that many words to say it.

Nah, it's bullshit. She can grab your ears and steer your tongue to the right spot, of course, but how is she supposed to tell you to lick a little harder, that's it, don't stop, don'tstopifyoustopI'llfucking killyou-- in bird calls?
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Originally Posted by liv2srv View Post
Wow. And to think I thought I was the ignorant one here...

Seeing as most of you have reveled in dispensing unasked-for advice and have yet to even come close to answering my question, I can only assume you are typical doctrinaires, more caught up in enforcing the dogma of your own exclusive clique than engaging in a meaningful exchange of ideas.

I leave you to your sad, fanatical, calcified world. Enjoy it.
Um, what am I missing? How was Stella's comment a personal insult? Or, any kind of insult?
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:36 AM   #22
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It helps to remember that male and female are best used when adjectives. So, "male sub" and "submissive man".
This, I get.

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Originally Posted by KoPilot View Post
Psst-- you might try to start using "men" and "women" instead of "males" and "females". It sounds a lot less alienating and wank-foddery.
This, not so much. I get the general obnoxiousness of both women/females being derived from men/males. But why is "women" more politically correct than "females"? Because it focuses on procreation and is less human specific (more clinical)? In that case, its both the male/female term that are alienating? Right???

Can't say either set of words trip any personal triggers for me. But, as a woman/female, I sort of feel I should *get* the issue.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:08 AM   #23
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hey, Endless night,

I love picking apart the threads of grammatical logic!

yes, using the adjective instead of the noun is a little bit of an insult to the personhood of the person. Come to think of it, most pejoratives, like the "N' word, are descriptors instead of nouns-- that might be why "POC"/"person of color" (which allows the person to BE a person) is more "politically correct."

yes, please "woman" and "man," in general. "submissive man" "submissive woman" both describe an aspect of the man or woman. "Male submissive" "female submissive" both describe the submissive, who is understood to be human.

I really can't be bothered with the radfem discussion about "woman" being derived from "man." Sure enough-- but for now it is what it is, and we just don't make language changes that quickly, not for such fundamentally conseptual words. Gotta be a little bit pragmatic.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:38 AM   #24
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I really can't be bothered with the radfem discussion about "woman" being derived from "man." Sure enough-- but for now it is what it is, and we just don't make language changes that quickly, not for such fundamentally conseptual words. Gotta be a little bit pragmatic.
This is super interesting to me. I had no idea such a discussion is going on in the English speaking world! I understand the change from fireman to firefighter and so on, but complaining about the word woman is of completely different nature, considering the etymologies (which can be found here: woman man). Interesting.

*I won't start rambling about other languages, I won't start rambling about other languages, I won't start rambling about other languages*

Thanks for mentioning this!
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:38 AM   #25
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Nice!
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The formation is peculiar to English and Dutch. Replaced older Old English wif and quean as the word for "female human being.
William Morris who was one of the better writers of fake-medieval stories in fake-medieval language, used "man" to mean "human being," and "queen" and "carl" to mean woman and man respectively.
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