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Old 09-18-2005, 07:21 AM   #1
Betticus
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Stag of Oberon

Bravo, I do like everything that you said and I believe that it needs it's own thread.

So, is the sub/dom real?

I work in a Deli, and believe it or not, I frequently hear the question;

"Is that real turkey?"

I'm not much for existentialism, yet it frequently takes a lot of self control not to ask them if anything is real, or if it's all some part of some grand illusion for the amusement of a higher being that may or may not care...

... or some thing like that. Sometimes I want to just throw a handful of turkey at someone and ask them if it's real.

In anycase, yes the turkey is real, you can see it, feel it, and I can even offer to let them taste it. Is it actually turkey? Well... as it turns out, the food and drug administration and the better buisness blah blah (I cant spell) require it to contain turkey if it is marketed as such, and the ingredients must be on the label as well.

What people really want to know is whether or not it's pressed, which most people don't actually know the term for. Yes, one of the turkey's we sell is pressed (made into a paste, possibly with extra ingredients, and reconstituted, like bologna)

So... are you a real sub?

Unlike the turkey, you don't have a wrapper with an ingredient label, and the food and drug administration has no buisness verifying any label you choose to put on yourself. Never the less, I'm sure if I bit into you, I would feel your flesh between my teeth, taste your skin, and perhaps even hear you whimper, moan, or shout for the cops.

So you're probably real.

As for the other part... that's really up to you what labels you choose to wear. Just keep in mind that others define us by our actions, not the titles we give ourselves. Those would be Dominants that tried to tell you how to be submissive, they're called pricks around here (or worse), regardless of what honorifics they try to wedge in front of their name.

Similarly, if you meet someone whom you want to submit to; do so. Thus, to that special person, you are a submissive (no one else really matters anyway).
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Old 09-18-2005, 07:50 AM   #2
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You're a real turkey!



Ok.... now that I'm done cracking myself up...

Thanks... I think...

(i do kinda wish you'd quoted me properly though)

Mostly it was just spewing the same stuff I see given to anyone who questions; "am i a real ____" (most commonly that blank seems to be filled with "subbie")

Never the less... sometimes it bears repeating. Our identities are not precicely tangible, and so we are both whom ever we chose to be, as well as whatever we choose to do (and who cares what "everyone else" says)

In the time since my computer busted a couple months ago, I've come to realize that I had been spending entirely too much time on computer games in the pursuit of amnesia.... trying to forget that I live with my parents and work in a deli.

Since then I have found I have the time (when I really force myself to) to get away from my computer, get out and go do things... thus I am more than just a deli worker that lives with his parents.

Now I'm a deli worker that lives with his parents, and went sailing three times in the past couple months, horse back riding twice, and hiking eight times. As well I've done some charity work for a former co-worker of mine who has hit dire straights of rescent, helping her remodel a room in her house, as well as using my contacts to hook her up with a few free chiropractic visits for her daughter.

Blah blah blah... I think you get that point.

I think what I was trying to get at there was that doing something was more theraputic than playing computer games... it helped me to identify myself in "real" terms (there's that word again) rather than as a Dwarven Hunter on World of Warcraft. When that was such a vital part of who I was outside of the sevice deli, I found I could hardly stand being apart from it.
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:06 AM   #3
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Just have to say thank you to both of you for you insights and opinions. Being "new" (still) to this, I have in the past questioned if I was a "real" sub. And I love your answers.


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Old 09-20-2005, 04:21 AM   #4
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:10 AM   #5
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I too appreciate SoO's thoughts, and in the context in which they originally appeared, were excellent advice.

Let's push the question a little further though. I have found that there seems to be a lot of opinions about people who are "wannabes" and "poseurs" in BDSM communities. So I want to ask, what is it that makes these people less valid or genuine, and would we be correct that such an individual is not a true ___________ ?

My own thoughts about this are that within communities identities are negotiated between each member as an individual and other members more generally. Thus to be a true ___________ , requires more than simply considering yourself to be a ____________ . Others within the community must also see you that way and through their recognition we become validated in our self identity.


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Old 02-27-2009, 06:56 AM   #6
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There appears to be a fad of "my own little thread's" going on in the Cafe lately, and I remember this one Betticus started for me AGES ago.

I was touched at that he would do this, and thought to dig up this thread as much as a tribute to him as to join the latest Fad of "look at me" threads.

but... given that it's in the Talk forum instead of the cafe, i suppose i should keep the randomness to a minimum.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tollo View Post
My own thoughts about this are that within communities identities are negotiated between each member as an individual and other members more generally. Thus to be a true ___________ , requires more than simply considering yourself to be a ____________ . Others within the community must also see you that way and through their recognition we become validated in our self identity.


Tollo
obviously i'm about 4 years late in addressing this question, though i remember reading it and thinking i already had, and was too jaded at the time to add more.

Acta non verba

which means actions not words
(no i don't speak latin i've been playing Bad Company)

Let your actions validate your label, not what other people say, nor what you say.

after a while you can kinda tell whose faking it around here, and who is being at least mostly genuine.

kinda, anyway.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:28 AM   #8
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I've been looking for a 'safe' and welcome place to store my late night ramblings, and I only just remembered this thread.

Obviously I've thought about having a 'bedroom' thread of my own before, but in general I find I lack the ego to suspect I might be interesting enough to warrant a thread to myself. Yet long ago, bett made this thread just for me.

Thank you again betticus.

And for the Mods; it might be well to move this thread to the Cafe, but I'll leave that to your judgement.

as I've mentioned elsewhere, I was up late late/ early a few nights ago with a potent mix of insomnia, literotica, pre-interview jitters, and a smidge of depression. It brought me to the point that I felt I might have flashbacks again, though to be honest they would not have been half so bad as the others I had to deal with.

Never the less, after my internet connection collapsed, I found it helped to write about it, and though I don't want to just throw this writing in the trash, I can't keep hard copies of this kind of thing where kids may find it.

Another point I've already made elsewhere; it's worth noting that this paints my former mistresses in a much worse light that they necessarily deserve. My depressed super ego doesn't pull punches when it comes to picking what memories to torture me with.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:36 AM   #9
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I long to know that a mistress desires to do unto me, and what.
Be it biting, bondage, blood drinking, flogging, pegging or boot licking; the what is ultimately secondary. I don't crave pain or indignity, I just want to feel desirable again; a smidge of catharsis from worthlessness.

Hard questions and house chores were well and good; a wonderfull chance to test my submission and bring harmony to a household, but part of me is ever destined to be that sub slinking up beside the chair, longing for a mistress's touch, an absent minded caress, a hair tousling.

A part of me will always be that wretched creature that shrank from dismissal, without so much as a dissproving slap as my reward. It might have happened twice or a dozen times, a part of me crawls wretched still, even though the chair and the mistress are distant memories.

A part of me will ever be that untouchable fairie, curled up in the closet after, cursing myself for wanting so much more than I obviously deserved, or the cuckholded ghost in the basement, lying to myself that it's ok to be here. Perhaps part of me always was.

A part of me will always be submissive, but that part has not been healthy in many years. So too then are these longings quite unhealthy. I try not to entertain such fantasies over long; but briefly I dream of another mistress somewhere, with a wicked imagination thwarted by a profound absense beside her chair.

It is of little comfort, and I am careful to shelve it quickly, before my demons grant her my own voice, and my own disdain for myself. I can toy with the thought only fleetingly before it's claws steal away my sleep... and yet I am rarely successful in banishing it quite swiftly enough.

It seems a part of me will always be submitting beside an empty chair.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post
I long to know that a mistress desires to do unto me, and what.
Be it biting, bondage, blood drinking, flogging, pegging or boot licking; the what is ultimately secondary. I don't crave pain or indignity, I just want to feel desirable again; a smidge of catharsis from worthlessness.

Hard questions and house chores were well and good; a wonderfull chance to test my submission and bring harmony to a household, but part of me is ever destined to be that sub slinking up beside the chair, longing for a mistress's touch, an absent minded caress, a hair tousling.

A part of me will always be that wretched creature that shrank from dismissal, without so much as a dissproving slap as my reward. It might have happened twice or a dozen times, a part of me crawls wretched still, even though the chair and the mistress are distant memories.

A part of me will ever be that untouchable fairie, curled up in the closet after, cursing myself for wanting so much more than I obviously deserved, or the cuckholded ghost in the basement, lying to myself that it's ok to be here. Perhaps part of me always was.

A part of me will always be submissive, but that part has not been healthy in many years. So too then are these longings quite unhealthy. I try not to entertain such fantasies over long; but briefly I dream of another mistress somewhere, with a wicked imagination thwarted by a profound absense beside her chair.

It is of little comfort, and I am careful to shelve it quickly, before my demons grant her my own voice, and my own disdain for myself. I can toy with the thought only fleetingly before it's claws steal away my sleep... and yet I am rarely successful in banishing it quite swiftly enough.

It seems a part of me will always be submitting beside an empty chair.
Stunning, Stag. Please keep writing.

I know what it is to submit to an empty chair.

I'm thoroughly convinced that this life we're living is the 'real' therapeutic process we are all engaged in. We can try to conform to the expectations of our various cultures; we can use the medications that are available to change our chemistry; but ultimately we're going to live our truths.

And apart from the 'real' pain of injury and illness, the denial, or repression, of our own truth is the root of the greatest suffering we experience.

If you open this dialogue with yourself, all that repressed energy will want expression. Trust that speaking your truths is healthy.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:27 PM   #11
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for better or worse, this kind of thing bubbles up only occasionally. For the most part I suppose I can be thankful for that, but it means I don't have an endless font of this to share, which is part of the reason I originally looked elsewhere to keep it, rather than having a "my own special thread" that I hardly ever added anything to.

Though I suppose, since it's mine, I could cram other things in here too...

gaming blather perhaps.
I could outline the slave culture of the orcish plains, or the politics that enables 'the hub' (an orc city in the middle of nowhere) to flourish.

I have a hard time believing anyone would be interested in that though, so likely as not, I wouldn't get even halfway through it.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:19 AM   #12
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Beautiful, Stag. Please keep writing. Maybe it will help you post more regularly if your mindset lines with the hope that someone who's going/gone through the same situation(s) might stumble upon the thread and be looking for advice but not be comfortable enough to post.

"Worthlessness..."

My hubby explained to me that he gets a sense of worth by being submissive, and I must admit that when his admission came, it nearly tore the soul from my chi. It happened in the midst of "aftersession" care. Blah, I thought I would cry and ruin his moment, but I stuffed all that down and put on a "lovely" smile before I kissed him (Eh, I'm sure he recoginized what was happening inside, though). It only inspires me to be a more caring individual.

Go ahead with the warcraft stuff...nothing wrong with fantasy, yanno.
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:10 AM   #13
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Beautiful, Stag. Please keep writing. Maybe it will help you post more regularly if your mindset lines with the hope that someone who's going/gone through the same situation(s) might stumble upon the thread and be looking for advice but not be comfortable enough to post.

"Worthlessness..."

My hubby explained to me that he gets a sense of worth by being submissive, and I must admit that when his admission came, it nearly tore the soul from my chi. It happened in the midst of "aftersession" care. Blah, I thought I would cry and ruin his moment, but I stuffed all that down and put on a "lovely" smile before I kissed him (Eh, I'm sure he recoginized what was happening inside, though). It only inspires me to be a more caring individual.
tears never ruin a moment (at least not for me) occasionally they make it though.

I don't know if submission would ease that sense of worthlessness... I don't recall it doing so in the past, at least not in and of itself. Physical or mental engagement does a lot to take my mind away from it, while gentle control goes a long way to make me feel wanted/ desirable, which in turn does seem to counter the feelings of worthlessness.

I hope that doesn't seem circular, but my point is that just submitting, just finding subspace, isn't remotely enough for me. Entirely by itself, subspace is a terrifying and dangerous mental place for me.


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Go ahead with the warcraft stuff...nothing wrong with fantasy, yanno.
I haven't played WoW in almost 3 years, and dearly miss it. I'm not sure how I'd feel about what it's evolved into though.

I was actually talking about the setting that has spun out from running D&D. I don't set about creating hugely detailed backdrops, just a handful of locales with locals, and usually a map, generally detailing a relatively small area that the PC's would already be acquainted with, and develop "historical tidbits" as I draw it. I do make a point of detailing culture and laws relevant to the player characters, with a heavy hand towards culture in chaotic places where laws are replaced by traditions and pecking orders.

Some of my long time players have gotten savvy enough to pointedly ask questions about peculiar names or landmarks when they first look at a map that I've drawn.

In any case; I seem to be talented in creating a habitable nook for the PC's that seem relevant to their backgrounds (which I tend to take a heavy hand in crafting cooperatively), without overwhelming them early with the affairs of nations, which if involved at all, should wait a while as the players become more vested and aware of their surroundings.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:47 AM   #14
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tears never ruin a moment (at least not for me) occasionally they make it though.

I don't know if submission would ease that sense of worthlessness... I don't recall it doing so in the past, at least not in and of itself. Physical or mental engagement does a lot to take my mind away from it, while gentle control goes a long way to make me feel wanted/ desirable, which in turn does seem to counter the feelings of worthlessness.

I hope that doesn't seem circular, but my point is that just submitting, just finding subspace, isn't remotely enough for me. Entirely by itself, subspace is a terrifying and dangerous mental place for me.
I don't know either, Stag. What I do know from personal experience: submitting to silent indifference is not healthy for the psyche.

Honestly, I cannot fully grasp why anyone would venture into the "serious" BDSM realm unless there was a basic, RL relationship structure first...might be fun, but probably asymmetric. Maybe it's the allure, the thrill. Maybe it's a dive, head-first, into making the fantasy a reality. Maybe it's just a need to pop. *shrugs* I do understand, however, the longing for fulfillment.

Quote:
I haven't played WoW in almost 3 years, and dearly miss it. I'm not sure how I'd feel about what it's evolved into though.

I was actually talking about the setting that has spun out from running D&D. I don't set about creating hugely detailed backdrops, just a handful of locales with locals, and usually a map, generally detailing a relatively small area that the PC's would already be acquainted with, and develop "historical tidbits" as I draw it. I do make a point of detailing culture and laws relevant to the player characters, with a heavy hand towards culture in chaotic places where laws are replaced by traditions and pecking orders.

Some of my long time players have gotten savvy enough to pointedly ask questions about peculiar names or landmarks when they first look at a map that I've drawn.

In any case; I seem to be talented in creating a habitable nook for the PC's that seem relevant to their backgrounds (which I tend to take a heavy hand in crafting cooperatively), without overwhelming them early with the affairs of nations, which if involved at all, should wait a while as the players become more vested and aware of their surroundings.
Sounds rather creative and intellegent, methinks. The hubbs and I normally gravitate towards wow during the winter months because outdoorsy stuff becomes nigh impossible.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:44 AM   #15
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I don't know if submission would ease that sense of worthlessness... I don't recall it doing so in the past, at least not in and of itself. Physical or mental engagement does a lot to take my mind away from it, while gentle control goes a long way to make me feel wanted/ desirable, which in turn does seem to counter the feelings of worthlessness.

I hope that doesn't seem circular, but my point is that just submitting, just finding subspace, isn't remotely enough for me. Entirely by itself, subspace is a terrifying and dangerous mental place for me.
here I've gone and equated submitting with finding sub-space. Before anyone else arrives to berate me on this; certainly they're related, but I do understand they are not the same thing. Similarly though, obedience is not necessarily the same as submission.

Going to the kitchen when I hear "bitch get me a beer" is obedience, not submission. Sitting next to her and or letting her touch me after she called me a bitch would probably be submission. Being touched or messed with, at that juncture, might put me in subspace, depending on what else was going on.

so yes, all different, but closely related.

I use present tense for simplicity, but I haven't been in or remotely near the described scenario in... a while. With one of those ex-mistresses; there was generally not touching after, whether I sat next to her or not.

I suppose another way to put it;
Obedience is the price that's paid for the privilege of submission.

another note on subspace;
when you crave a high bad enough, you settle for the bad highs. I haven't had a 'good high' subspace in years, so at times I find myself trying to avoid the cravings altogether... sometimes lit helps, sometimes not.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:14 AM   #16
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I don't know either, Stag. What I do know from personal experience: submitting to silent indifference is not healthy for the psyche.
I wouldn't call it silent indifference. One of my ex-mistresses was the "get away from me" sort. Frankly, I should have known better than to hope that *she* would choose to touch *me*. She didn't always shoo her cats away, but I was no cat.

Another bit of potential confusion to clear; two ex-mistresses, one brief relationship. The other mistress was simply not home as much, they were themselves still smoothing out kinks in their own relationship, and so had a rule that scenes only happened with both of them there (a fucking disaster that typically resulted in bickering). They did get that sorted out, if a bit late.

If that's not complicated enough, there was also another sub in the picture, & the majority of the relationship was long distance, save for a month long visit.

The most humiliating part of that memory that I shared was the exchanges I left out.
"what do you want" i think she asked, noticing me beside her chair.
the first time, i whispered "nothing," and she let me sit there awhile, and after an awkward bit I think I left on my own.

Other times, I answered more honestly;
"would you pet me," i'd ask, just above a whisper. (i can't remember if I said 'pet' or 'touch')
"no" she'd say, followed by something to the effect of "not when you creep up like that," i don't know if it was more about discouraging stealth, discouraging something that looked to her like animal play, or if she just didn't want to touch me. It's quite possible it was all of the above.

She didn't let me sit there as long when I was so forward though; "go on shoo," she'd say after just a few awkward moments, and I'd slink away to wallow in denial.

She was always the harsher mistress.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:07 PM   #17
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I use present tense for simplicity, but I haven't been in remotely near the described scenario in... a while.
"A while" could be a dangerous time span. Be wary of your own "admission": obedience is the price that's paid for the privilege of submission.

Quote:
when you crave a high bad enough, you settle for the bad highs. I haven't had a 'good high' subspace in years, so at times I find myself trying to avoid the cravings altogether... sometimes lit helps, sometimes not.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:34 PM   #18
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In the time since my computer busted a couple months ago, I've come to realize that I had been spending entirely too much time on computer games in the pursuit of amnesia.... trying to forget that I live with my parents and work in a deli.

Since then I have found I have the time (when I really force myself to) to get away from my computer, get out and go do things... thus I am more than just a deli worker that lives with his parents.

Now I'm a deli worker that lives with his parents, and went sailing three times in the past couple months, horse back riding twice, and hiking eight times. As well I've done some charity work for a former co-worker of mine who has hit dire straights of rescent, helping her remodel a room in her house, as well as using my contacts to hook her up with a few free chiropractic visits for her daughter.

Blah blah blah... I think you get that point.

I think what I was trying to get at there was that doing something was more theraputic than playing computer games... it helped me to identify myself in "real" terms (there's that word again) rather than as a Dwarven Hunter on World of Warcraft. When that was such a vital part of who I was outside of the sevice deli, I found I could hardly stand being apart from it.
This intrigued me. (I also cheered a little inside, to be honest).

So...I'm dead curious now to know how much of your life now is computer life and how much is real life and how do you feel about that?

(And I assume you probably no longer live with your parents and work at a deli, but I could be wrong).
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:52 PM   #19
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This intrigued me. (I also cheered a little inside, to be honest).

So...I'm dead curious now to know how much of your life now is computer life and how much is real life and how do you feel about that?

(And I assume you probably no longer live with your parents and work at a deli, but I could be wrong).
kind of a lot of my life these days is spent escaping into the computer, sadly.

I got back into WoW for a while, got my wife (then fiance) into it too. It was a godsend when I broke my ankle and had to spend 2 months in a nest on the couch, but we had to cut the subscription when she lost her job shortly after that (almost 3 years ago), and no few other luxuries and 'necessities' along the way. I lost my job at the deli about 1 1/2 years ago, just before my daughter was born. I've been on unemployment since, while my wife had managed to get a string of temp jobs (with long scary lapses between). Right now she's working 2 1/2 jobs, 2 of which are halloween stores, so she won't be home much for the next month or so.

we don't live with my parents, but my mom helps a lot financially, not quite paying rent for us.

so... these days I'm a full time parent when my wife works, and a 'full time' job hunter when she doesn't. I do a bit less job searching than I used to, but still a little more than the steady trickle required to keep the unemployment going (for now... and I have a lot of anxiety about when it runs out and still no one will hire me).

a significant portion of my free time is spent on the computer these days, between taking care of the household and our two kids, which provide constant interruptions (so WoW, which is unpausable, would be implausible anyway). Without a baby sitter I don't really feel free to do even very basic outside work, so the yard suffers.

I haven't gone sailing since that summer. I haven't been on a horse since I broke my ankle. Between kids and crappy ankle I never go hiking anymore either.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:29 PM   #20
Stag of Oberon
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"A while" could be a dangerous time span. Be wary of your own "admission": obedience is the price that's paid for the privilege of submission.
I'm curious what you intent was with this warning.


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Ever watched Arsenic and Old Lace?
no. but i've had most of it told to me. Read a synapses just now, to make sure it's the same one I thought it was.

So what does arsenic and old lace got to do with the price of lemons in china? or were you trying to warn me against ending up in "the panama canal" dug in some old lady's basement.
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:38 PM   #21
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I'm curious what you intent was with this warning
'Twas meant as a word of caution after reading through a few of your posts: "it's been a...while", sometimes you crave the high so much, a bad one will suffice, and then something along the lines of abstaining from such activites. Those sentiments can lead to a negative sub frenzy (presumptuousness unintended). I see, though, now, that you are married? The issue of sub frenzy may now cross into the irrelevant. *brow quirk*

Regarding "the panamal canal": *chuckles* Sadly, it was satire. *shrugs* Making jokes is something I do to cope with life, and probably my sadistical crutch. *inserts the Irish "archetype" of making light of the dark*

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...kids, which provide constant interruption
My kids love the outdoors, keeping them inside is much like a punishment. Acting silly inspires them into emulation, and that's how I get them to help...rather than hinder. The little guy outside? He goes wild, so another year will pass before he gets free reign with his sisters.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:24 AM   #22
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As time has gone by, I've finally come to realize that for the actions of a few, I have fled contact with any that would venture to compliment me for fear of being set up for humiliation. The majority of those few I have let close to me were the ones who dared to touch me first; a requirement many would call dangerous.

When I was young; I could not possibly be sexy.

I was too skinny. Too nerdy. Too ADD. Too Artsy.

I was too quiet.

As I came of age, I could not possibly be sexy.

I was too introverted. Too young. Still too nerdy. Too AD&D.

I was too emotional, and still too quiet.

In my midlife, which I sometimes call "my old age;" I still find it quite impossible that anyone could find me sexy.

I'm too overweight. Too physically damaged. Too mentally atrophied.

Too attached, and still too quiet.

And yet, reflecting on my life, there have been so many missed opportunities, so many times someone or another set off alarm bells with probing questions, dropped hints, or even by paying me blatant gaze held compliments;

Might it ever have been that I was just too sexy?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:24 PM   #23
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Might it ever have been that I was just too sexy?
I think so.

Methinks it's time for you to bite the bullet and start returning some of those blantant gaze held compliments.

I know it's hard - I still push myself to respond - but later, when I'm alone the elation that someone liked the look of me sets in and it makes all the anxiety worth it for a wee while.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:47 PM   #24
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I've learned to accept them from my wife. Others still get the knee jerk reaction of "shut your mouth," as if it were inappropriate. It is kinda, now that I'm married, though the reaction still comes from that terrified instinct that says i'm being set up.

The "too sexy" thought was just the flirty/ sarcastic comment that naturally follows such a line of reasoning.... but following so naturally maybe should tell me something.

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Methinks it's time for you to bite the bullet and start returning some of those blantant gaze held compliments.
on the other hand, I know it wouldn't bother my wife to give as good as i get (that's her policy)... so you may be right.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:10 PM   #25
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I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, and I know it started years ago, but I was really touched by what I read. Thanks for writing! I'm looking forward to reading more of it!
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