Sadism vs. Masochism

Quite a few people seem to understand the need or desire for pain. Anything from a little nibble all the way to the extreme.

It also seems that quite a few of the same people harbor a loathing for sadists.

Causing pain, the desire or need to cause pain must be the ultimate taboo.

Betticus said:

Quite a few people seem to understand the need or desire for pain. Anything from a little nibble all the way to the extreme.

It also seems that quite a few of the same people harbor a loathing for sadists.

Causing pain, the desire or need to cause pain must be the ultimate taboo.

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...ok.

agreed, self said sadists are rare, esp. in women. our moderator francisco is one exception.

his absence is causing pain. .... ah, now I understand

I enjoy both, primarily attracted to bdsm due to a liking for pain; the anticipation, the adrenaline, the stimuli and the endorphins.

I had no aversion to sadists myself, but my search led me to someone who wanted more than that, and I'm grateful. Simple sadomasochism would have bored eventually, or driven me to extremes.

Now I relish inflicting pain upon another, even tho I know he suffers it for my benefit, rather than his enjoyment. But that knowledge doesn't lessen my desire to hurt him more.

Betticus, bless you.

I spent a long time feeling like there was something wrong with me.

I have for many years now embraced my deamons.

I AM A SADIST.

When I am smacking someone in the ass and watching them squirm and flinch, my dick get's hard. So be it.

I understand that some people don't like sadists. Again, so be it.

Just don't bend over in front of me

Whilst I myself am not a sadist, just a masochist here. I understand the desire to cause pain as I see it most everyday in the eyes of my Lady. I'll have to make sure She sees this thread for I'm sure She will be thankful to you for starting it.

Betticus said:

Quite a few people seem to understand the need or desire for pain. Anything from a little nibble all the way to the extreme.

It also seems that quite a few of the same people harbor a loathing for sadists.

Causing pain, the desire or need to cause pain must be the ultimate taboo.

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people think the need for pain is kinky 'til they truly understand what the need for pain is. then you are a freak and a whore or a pig or whatever. Most men i have met have wanted me to fear them because they were gonna "punish" me. that kinda makes me wanna puke mostly. So i don't loath sadists,or think that them causing pain is a bad thing, i kinda like em cause they kinda get it

I have never considered myself to be a true sadist, simply because I would get no enjoyment from inflicting pain on an unwilling person. In fact, I think that I need to know that not only is the other willing, but on some level enjoying the treatment they are receiving. A sadist, it would seem to me, would enjoy inflicting pain regardless. Maybe this is too restrictive, but that's my take on it.

Tollo

I'm not talking about any kind of limited sadism. Not talking about specific acts or abuse but the psychological desire that is there. The hunger.

What I don't get is why someone would loathe a sadist and not loathe a masochist. I mean really aren't they just opposite sides of the same coin?

caela said:

What I don't get is why someone would loathe a sadist and not loathe a masochist. I mean really aren't they just opposite sides of the same coin?

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Exactly. That's totally how I feel. I have limited experiance exploring my masocistic (is that a word?) side, and no sadistic desires, but when I went to the Pride Parade in San Diego this past July I met/saw a lot of both. I only talked with a few extensively, but to me both desires are intertwined, because.... If your a sadist, it's best to have a masochist to fufill your desires, and visa versa. I would never "loathe" a sadist, simply because they are the very people I seek out, to give me what I want.

Heather

Betticus said:

I'm not talking about any kind of limited sadism. Not talking about specific acts or abuse but the psychological desire that is there. The hunger.

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The hunger. Yes. I have hunger. I have limits and a lot of things I would not do are what I would call sadism. But that is slipping into just accepting that sadism is taboo and I would never do the taboo!

But what I like to do is sadistic in its own way and yes... I crave it. Probably more than a denied and teased pyl craves orgasm.

Pure said:

agreed, self said sadists are rare, esp. in women. our moderator francisco is one exception.

his absence is causing pain. .... ah, now I understand

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Tsk, tsk Pure.....aren't you causing us all enough pain yourself by your lengthy absences?

As to disliking sadists, can't see why a masochist would unless they were into denial of their own desires or just plain thick. For myself, I sought a sadist and have discovered I can have a fair share of the sadistic streak in my own make up under the right circumstances with the right people. Of course, what I have found is I prefer to hurt someone I have a strong affection or liking for as opposed to someone I don't care 2 hoots for.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

Tsk, tsk Pure.....aren't you causing us all enough pain yourself by your lengthy absences?

As to disliking sadists, can't see why a masochist would unless they were into denial of their own desires or just plain thick. For myself, I sought a sadist and have discovered I can have a fair share of the sadistic streak in my own make up under the right circumstances with the right people. Of course, what I have found is I prefer to hurt someone I have a strong affection or liking for as opposed to someone I don't care 2 hoots for.

Catalina

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I always place a high value on your advice but I want to hear from Francisco. The hunger I feel goes beyond just a sexual desire to cause a little pain for pleasure. When I am with a woman I can smell her. I sense the heat of her skin and there is an urge to take her in my mouth and taste her, to consume some part of her that God never meant for me to take. It's not like the eating of flesh but more like the absorbing of her spirit. I crave to sense and to taste and to consume her. I don't mind if it is the salt off of her skin that I'm tasting. I adore the cannibalistic taboo of taking her menstrual blood into me or her blood in general. Menstrual is special though as it was meant as the creation of life.

I view it as something akin to what a hummingbird does to a flower by feasting on its nectar. Taking the life force of the flower into its body and making that it's own posession. Merely tasting her pussy is an incredible thing on it's own and I can't get enough of that but that life energy, just to take a sample on your tongue is magical. The same hunger is present when any part of her body is in my mouth, I can feel the flesh and blood and bone under my teeth and a part of me wants to eat her. Not to kill or maim her of course but there is a hunger that can be satisfied by having her cum in my mouth and ingesting that most special part of her.

I'm talking about the very root of my sadism. The ravenous hunger for female flesh.

There is also a part of me that can feed from her fear and her pain and her confusion. The daddy part of me is stronger and I want her to be healthy and happy and focused. I can get what I crave from her body in ways that please both of us. There is still that cannibal within me though. What I really want is a woman who understands my hunger and who can feed me in ways that only she can. A woman who knows what it is that I'm taking from her body. A woman that is giving it to me for our mutual pleasure.

I want a woman who is as sick as me.

Betticus said:

I always place a high value on your advice but I want to hear from Francisco. ........
I want a woman who is as sick as me.

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LOL, well I will tell him and see if he can spare a moment in the renovating and entertaining schedule he has set...as to finding one as sick as yourself.....not sure I class it as sick, but it is rewarding when you find one who shares and appreciates your perversions and deviot, most dark thoughts and ponderings.

Catalina

sadism is a known psychological problem in which the person becomes aroused by the thought or act of giving pain. your mental build acctualy finds the thought of anothers pain as plesurable, releasing multiple hormones that induce pleasure when the act is done. the littral science says that it is the wiring of your brain is slightly diffrent and triggers the 'rewards' part of your brain for doing such acts you see as 'discomforting.' (your pity of pain which all humans have.)

Masochism is a known psychological and medical problem, since the brains section for Pleasure and Pain are so close to geather it is often found that some people will acctualy have their brain send information of pain to Pleasure, or in the rare cases, that these two are one in the same part. this is a medical problem because there are ways (through drugs or blunt force trama to the head) that you can make the person a Masochist.

but again, it is Only a problem if you find it a problem. sadist find great pleasure from hurting, but only find it a problem when they hurt some one to the point that that person finds it unplesaurable. if you Hurt the one you truely loved and they didnt enjoy it you would feel bad.

on the flip side, masochists too only find this a problem when it becomes a problem. for instance, a desire for pain may cause certian psychological problems (suicidel tendencies) or the relization that even if something IS wrong you find it enjoyable (enjoying the pain of being beaten up and raped).

out of all of this, it is evedent that sadists and masochist are feed on the hunger for the release of the 'pleasure' hormone making it a true hunger much like that some drug users feel (only example i could think of)

Thank the universe I saw the frivolity of much of psych mumbo jumbo early on when attending a lecture which said when x happens a person will behave in either a, b, or c....problem I saw was I had been in the position of the x factor and had not behaved in a, b, or c which was inconceivable to the lead heads who felt they had it all figured out. Add to that our studies centered for 6 months about the long histories of theories about several areas which had changed several times over the last few decades and it seemed while it was interesting to contemplate and think about, without an an ability to actually understand real life as opposed to text book theories of whatever year you are in, and an open mind to new possibilities, it was basically useless in that they don't seem to have devised a set theory on anything yet that is not set aside for the next 'new and better' theory which often discounts it's predecessor. Living a full and interesting life has shown me, not everything or everyone can be fit so nice and neatly into the psychoanalysis box of tricks often written up by people who have no real experience or understanding of what they are professing to have all the answers to. Interesting thing is most people who have gone heavily into psych admit to doing it because they wanted to fix themselves..and we should listen when they tell us we are the fucked up ones?!! And yes, I studied psych and learned how to play their game, and have a degree and above average professional reputation in an area which requires knowing a lot about human behaviour, relationships, and survival.

Catalina

I'm a Sadist. I'm also a Masochist. I get off on pain...period. I'd have to say that my sadistic tendancies are stronger than the masochistic ones in the long run though. There is just something about having someone surrender to you, put that much trust in you...Inflicting pain on a person just does it for me. It's a rush like nothing else. I've done drugs in the past, drank and partied too. But nothing I've ever done can compair to the rush I get from hurting a person. Call me strange lol but there you have it.
One of the big reasons I enjoy the lifestyle so much is the variety. There is so much out there to do and see that it can overwhelm a body. The degrees to which some people go to satisfy their cravings are just mind boggling.
Pain is so pure...it's a way to express so much...words fail me *soft laugh*

catalina_francisco said:

Thank the universe I saw the frivolity of much of psych mumbo jumbo early on when attending a lecture which said when x happens a person will behave in either a, b, or c....problem I saw was I had been in the position of the x factor and had not behaved in a, b, or c which was inconceivable to the lead heads who felt they had it all figured out. Add to that our studies centered for 6 months about the long histories of theories about several areas which had changed several times over the last few decades and it seemed while it was interesting to contemplate and think about, without an an ability to actually understand real life as opposed to text book theories of whatever year you are in, and an open mind to new possibilities, it was basically useless in that they don't seem to have devised a set theory on anything yet that is not set aside for the next 'new and better' theory which often discounts it's predecessor. Living a full and interesting life has shown me, not everything or everyone can be fit so nice and neatly into the psychoanalysis box of tricks often written up by people who have no real experience or understanding of what they are professing to have all the answers to. Interesting thing is most people who have gone heavily into psych admit to doing it because they wanted to fix themselves..and we should listen when they tell us we are the fucked up ones?!! And yes, I studied psych and learned how to play their game, and have a degree and above average professional reputation in an area which requires knowing a lot about human behaviour, relationships, and survival.

Catalina

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I have met some people with psych degrees who are pretty fucked up on their own. One girl in particular that sticks in memory was paranoid and had low self esteem. If you were talking to someone and she saw you but wasn't in a place to hear then she would assume that you were talking about her in a negative way. She would get very upset and sometimes go so far as to cry or to report you for sexual harassment. She didn't last too long in the Army.

Enough of that Catalina. It seems that I need to improve my skills at putting into the written word what is actually going on in my head. In normal life these sadistic or masochistic tendencies are pretty far removed.

What does happen is really a lot more like a momentary flash of desire, then it's gone. In the right mood or setting it can last longer such as during sex or on certain kinds of interaction or reflection. When I flirt with someone I don't think to myself about what her skin would feel like in my teeth. I don't delve into fantasy like that. I won't even try to pretend that I come across as a very normal person as I don't try to hide from others what I'm feeling. I don't try to modify my body language or speech to maintain a presence of "normality" or social niceties.

I stay in the moment and I enjoy the company of interesting or fun people. With that said we all need to understand that when I'm posting here on Lit I'm usually at home and by myself. This gives me quiet time to reflect upon all kinds of things including sadism and it is during this time that my mind tends to wander into the more esoteric or extreme ends of things. Then I bounce my thoughts and feelings back and forth with you guys and normally we all have fun.

If I whip out something that seems to be really off the wall or extreme it's probably because I have spent too much time thinking about it.

I understand the desire for pain, being on the masochistic side of things myself. And although I am really just starting my journey and have not yet found the limits of my desire, I know in my deepest heart it's not going to be anything too terribly extreme...

I have to understand that there are people out there that are the opposite side of my particualr coin and so would feel the need to inflict pain on others. Afterall, without them, I would not be able to explore my darker side...

Although I don't think I will ever fully comprehend the need to go to extremes in the quest for fulfillment, I certainly don't loathe anyone for how they choose to get what they need in their life as long as they can do it in a way that they are not causing harm to anyone who doesn't consent. It's anyone who cannot keep their quest for fulfillment within the confines of moral responsibility that I cannot bear to accept.

I think mostly the fear and loathing of people who like to cause pain comes from so many instances where they have taken out their desires on those who are unwilling or unable to give consent and suffer for it needlessly.....

Syb.

Betticus said:

The hunger I feel goes beyond just a sexual desire to cause a little pain for pleasure. When I am with a woman I can smell her. I sense the heat of her skin and there is an urge to take her in my mouth and taste her, to consume some part of her that God never meant for me to take. It's not like the eating of flesh but more like the absorbing of her spirit. I crave to sense and to taste and to consume her. I don't mind if it is the salt off of her skin that I'm tasting. I adore the cannibalistic taboo of taking her menstrual blood into me or her blood in general. Menstrual is special though as it was meant as the creation of life.

I view it as something akin to what a hummingbird does to a flower by feasting on its nectar. Taking the life force of the flower into its body and making that it's own posession. Merely tasting her pussy is an incredible thing on it's own and I can't get enough of that but that life energy, just to take a sample on your tongue is magical. The same hunger is present when any part of her body is in my mouth, I can feel the flesh and blood and bone under my teeth and a part of me wants to eat her. Not to kill or maim her of course but there is a hunger that can be satisfied by having her cum in my mouth and ingesting that most special part of her.

I'm talking about the very root of my sadism. The ravenous hunger for female flesh.

There is also a part of me that can feed from her fear and her pain and her confusion. The daddy part of me is stronger and I want her to be healthy and happy and focused. I can get what I crave from her body in ways that please both of us. There is still that cannibal within me though. What I really want is a woman who understands my hunger and who can feed me in ways that only she can. A woman who knows what it is that I'm taking from her body. A woman that is giving it to me for our mutual pleasure.

I want a woman who is as sick as me.

Click to expand...

Except for the last sentence, i think that is one of the nicest descriptions of sadism i've ever read...

Referring to something KC said...what i don't understand is, most player doms feel the need to "punish" me, and think that whipping is the industry standard.

i guess i have two specific thoughts...

First, why can't a Dominant Man assume i can come to him already knowledgably prepared to serve Him?? Why the automatic assumption that i must be "trained"?? As a truly submissive woman, i have known how to serve a Man, both domestically and in pleasure, since i was about 14 years old. (didn't understand it at the BDSM level till now..but have always KNOWN it)

Let me do what i already know how to do..assume i come to my submissiveness as well prepared as You come to Your Dominance!!!

And second...why does the whip only represent punishment?? Is it not possible that the whip can represent pleasure as well? i think that it all falls in the normal spectrum of the intensity of physical stimulation..some people can see the color indigo in the visible light spectrum, while others stop at the color blue. My spectrum of desirable sensation is just wider than others...

i understand that not all submissives are masochists...but there are a fair lot of us who are... like many subs have said before me...my ultimate punishment is when my Master withdraws himself from me. Flog me and my honey flows like a river....

nusubgurl said:

Except for the last sentence, i think that is one of the nicest descriptions of sadism i've ever read...

Referring to something KC said...what i don't understand is, most player doms feel the need to "punish" me, and think that whipping is the industry standard.

i guess i have two specific thoughts...

First, why can't a Dominant Man assume i can come to him already knowledgably prepared to serve Him?? Why the automatic assumption that i must be "trained"?? As a truly submissive woman, i have known how to serve a Man, both domestically and in pleasure, since i was about 14 years old. (didn't understand it at the BDSM level till now..but have always KNOWN it)

Let me do what i already know how to do..assume i come to my submissiveness as well prepared as You come to Your Dominance!!!

And second...why does the whip only represent punishment?? Is it not possible that the whip can represent pleasure as well? i think that it all falls in the normal spectrum of the intensity of physical stimulation..some people can see the color indigo in the visible light spectrum, while others stop at the color blue. My spectrum of desirable sensation is just wider than others...

i understand that not all submissives are masochists...but there are a fair lot of us who are... like many subs have said before me...my ultimate punishment is when my Master withdraws himself from me. Flog me and my honey flows like a river....

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I think the training part comes from people wanting to train the submissive to do as they prefer, as they like, as they need....which is why it always amuses me when I read ads from Dom/mes who guarantee they can train others to be the perfect slave or submissive for unknown others, r sub/slaves claiming to know exactly what will please any Dom/me. It is a matter of taste as to what is perfect and while one Dom may want to be awoken by getting his cock sucked, another might prefer to wake naturally and slowly in his own time with his sub/slave waiting patiently beside the bed, or scrubbing the kitchen floor etc,etc....so while someone might be the ultimate submissive and/or sex toy for some, for others their belief of what is going to give pleasure and be the perfect way of pleasing may be the complete opposite, thus the training required for each relationship, each situation as it is the Dominant who decides what is required, what feeds their need, what is necessary, not the submissive who feels they know what is good for the Dom/me.

As to whips....for us they are for pure pleasure.

Catalina

If I wanted to train something I'd get a dog.

Whacking someone is a reward in my house, not a punishment. A punishment is a denial of pleasures and privileges, works fabulously well. It's also very rare.

Netzach said:

If I wanted to train something I'd get a dog.

Whacking someone is a reward in my house, not a punishment. A punishment is a denial of pleasures and privileges, works fabulously well. It's also very rare.

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Posts like this are why i Netzach.

Netzach said:

If I wanted to train something I'd get a dog.

Whacking someone is a reward in my house, not a punishment. A punishment is a denial of pleasures and privileges, works fabulously well. It's also very rare.

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Succinct and to the point. I love it. Things work this way in our house as well.

One of the things I love about him is he has absolutely zero confusion about his sadism. He loves hurting me. He has no interest in me zoning off into subspace and missing all the hurty parts. He'll snap me back to reality if I even try. I've come to love being present in my pain, and adore him for every stroke, whack, punch, lash, whatever.

I don't want a sadist with apologies. I want one who revels in hurting me.

~Anelize