LITEROTICA PODCAST
LIT CAMS (200 Free Tokens)ADULT TOYSVOD MOVIES

Male Dominance and Serotonin Levels

K

Killishandra

Literotica Ghost
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
1,528
Interesting article. Does anyone have something to add to this, discuss, or give an opinion on? I think it's really interesting that they didn't find a similar correlation between serotonin and dominance in females... I wonder if the correlation in males is really as causal as the article's author implies.

Dominance and Serotonin Levels
 
That is an interesting article. Not sure what I can add to it. It's not something I've ever heard of before. I read it quickly because I have to go to work soon. Is the source of the research cited? If there is no source given to something scientific stated on the web, it's truth potential goes down about 80 percent in my head.

In my personal, non-scientific observations, men with lower than normal testosterone levels make the best slave owners (don't know about other kinds of dominance) because they are better able to control their impulsive agression which can destroy a delicate dependency relationship. One needs a lot of patience to own a slave for a lifetime.
 
Thank you for the article. i found it quite interesting reading material. i have always felt Master's natural dominance, in anything that He does and any situation. Also, the connection between seratonin and sexual activity makes perfect sense to me. In previous relationships (not BDSM) i was told that i was a nympho *laugh*. i can honestly say that if i am a nympho then Master has no problem with this, whereas others could not seem to "keep up" *giggle...pun intended too*.

Thanks again!
 
I read this article three times, trying to decide if it was meant to be taken seriously, but I finally decided that the purpose was to stimulate the old "nature vs. nurture" debate in its bdsm incarnation.

We are told that there is a difference between the way dominants vs. non-dominants respond to seratonin, without any clue as to who these people are. Since most dominants are also submissive, and vice versa (they are, after all, behaviors, not merit badges), I, for one, wonder how they placed people in these convenient little groups for research purposes.

The gist of the article seems to be that dominant behavior is hallucogenic, whereas submissive behavior is depressive.

There is also an attempt to link dominance with sexuality by innuendo. I don't know of many people in real life who see bdsm as a primarily sexual thing, since vanillas often tend to have more active, and satisfying, sex lives than people in the bdsm world. Many people get interested in bdsm because it is a sex substitute.

There is lots we don't know about chemicals and how they affect what we do and think, and this article illustrates very well that lack of knowledge.
 
I've read about this before and I believe that it is more of a side effect than the cause. But it does make sense, since the uplift (more seratonin) of winning a contest keeps the dominant wanting more, to maintain the position. It is the reward. The defeated move slightly toward a depressed mood (less seratonin) which keeps them more passive and cooperative. I believe that it's true that serotonin levels increase in a wining dominant but I don't think that the seratonin makes them dominant. Seems that this seratonin effect is by design. I always thought it was testosterone that was associated with aggression. I agree that I don't see why the same thing doesn't happen with females. Would have to ask if they even looked for it in females.
 
Last edited:
The switch, who reads shitloads of these studies, was telling me about this study of testosterone levels involving pro football players, salesmen, and actors.

The actors had the highest levels of T, the salesmen the least. T levels were, essentially tied to perceptions of *approval.*


It's a fact that a lot of sexually submissive men are socially dominant men. So I think this actually balances things out a bit. Also, almost everyone I know in the scene (hell and out of it too) D/s or other has some kind of issue with seratonin imbalances!
 
Interesting article Killishandra. I have to agree with Gallant that from what was written it sounds like the increased levels of serotonin are an after effect of being in a dominant situation than the cause.

One a little side note (cause I'm picky and have taken too many biology classes) it's a vaso-constrictor not a vaso-contractor. But that's me being nit picky and imagining the look on my professors faces if I ever said vaso-contractor in one of my classes.
 
hormones?

Killishandra said:
Interesting article. Does anyone have something to add to this, discuss, or give an opinion on? I think it's really interesting that they didn't find a similar correlation between serotonin and dominance in females... I wonder if the correlation in males is really as causal as the article's author implies.

Dominance and Serotonin Levels
Click to expand...
--------------------------------

what did i miss here? as a normal everyday vanilla type guy, being overly macho alpha male, being overly aggressive and assertive( same word aint it?)
that i am lost and confused here.
take away his power and his level drops off? say what????/
how do you do this???? i am just naturally aggresive and high strung. NO ONE can take that away. how do you DO this? just-because, i kneel to my Ms, when i have one, will not/does not/ cannot/ take that away.!
i am STILL aggressive......even as a slave. will SOMEONE PLEASE explain this?????

thanks the wolf

(damn. maybe spending all that time with the Chosen Few and the Hell's Angels i am TOO street aggressive?)
 
Netzach said:
The switch, who reads shitloads of these studies, was telling me about this study of testosterone levels involving pro football players, salesmen, and actors.

The actors had the highest levels of T, the salesmen the least. T levels were, essentially tied to perceptions of *approval.*


It's a fact that a lot of sexually submissive men are socially dominant men. So I think this actually balances things out a bit. Also, almost everyone I know in the scene (hell and out of it too) D/s or other has some kind of issue with seratonin imbalances!
Click to expand...

Studies are inconclusive. A dominant I once knew and loved had a very low testosterone level. He was also a superb actor. shrug. Go figure.
 
timberwolf05 said:
--------------------------------

what did i miss here? as a normal everyday vanilla type guy, being overly macho alpha male, being overly aggressive and assertive( same word aint it?)
that i am lost and confused here.
take away his power and his level drops off? say what????/
how do you do this???? i am just naturally aggresive and high strung. NO ONE can take that away. how do you DO this? just-because, i kneel to my Ms, when i have one, will not/does not/ cannot/ take that away.!
i am STILL aggressive......even as a slave. will SOMEONE PLEASE explain this?????

thanks the wolf

(damn. maybe spending all that time with the Chosen Few and the Hell's Angels i am TOO street aggressive?)
Click to expand...


It's testosterone that heightens aggression and sexual urges usually not seratonin. The way I read the article was that a dominant male in a situation in which he has power to excercise will have higher than average seratonin levels not higher testosterone levels. Take away their power and their seratonin drops. Maybe I read it wrong though. ~shrugs~
 
Testosterone affects aggression levels, and as I understand it, serotonin affects feelings of "happiness" and "elation."

I think the correlation between serotonin levels heightening or dropping in dominant men based on the power they hold is just a correlation between power and happiness in their own minds. If power makes them happy, it falls to reason that a drop in power means a drop in their "happy" chemicals.

If they are not "dominant" (according to the author's definition, but of course he never states one) then it stands to reason that a drop in power wouldn't mean a drop in serotonin. (If power doesn't equal "happiness" in their minds.)
 
When I am depressed, I don't feel very dominant at all. When I am feeling good I tend to feel a lot more dominant and when I am Manic I feel like the most dominant and powerful creature on the planet.

Although, I've been depressed with two gorgeous women in my bed, and I've been manic while my entire life was falling apart.
 
Seretonin is not the same as testostrerone.

Testosterone affects aggression, hirsuteness, pitch of voice (puberty), and muscular development, etc.

Seretonin affects sadness vs happiness, depression vs elation, lack of motivation vs motivated, etc.

From the article:
Females have serotonin as well, but until now there is no scientific indication of a connection between female dominant behavior and serotonin.
Click to expand...

I wonder if lower levels would lead to increased submissive behavior in women?
 
caela said:
Interesting article Killishandra. I have to agree with Gallant that from what was written it sounds like the increased levels of serotonin are an after effect of being in a dominant situation than the cause.

One a little side note (cause I'm picky and have taken too many biology classes) it's a vaso-constrictor not a vaso-contractor. But that's me being nit picky and imagining the look on my professors faces if I ever said vaso-contractor in one of my classes.
Click to expand...

That also irritated me, as well as the "fact" that this "vaso contraction" was a contributing factor in erections...
Also the inferrence that it acts on veins only, when vaso constriction occurs in all blood vessels, its a systemic response.
Um forgive me but I was always taught that an erection was a direct response to vasodilation.Increase blood flow to the erectile tissue etc???
Amyl nitrate is a rapid vaso dilator and if constriction causes an erection, amyl wouldn't really work well as a sex drug and my partner must be a freak of nature.
 
landcruisergal said:
That also irritated me, as well as the "fact" that this "vaso contraction" was a contributing factor in erections...
Also the inferrence that it acts on veins only, when vaso constriction occurs in all blood vessels, its a systemic response.
Um forgive me but I was always taught that an erection was a direct response to vasodilation.Increase blood flow to the erectile tissue etc???
Amyl nitrate is a rapid vaso dilator and if constriction causes an erection, amyl wouldn't really work well as a sex drug and my partner must be a freak of nature.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you and Caela have good points here...

Sorry to say, I didn't research the authenticity of this article. Just saw it, it looked interesting, and I posted it for others to discuss (which you all are doing, and bringing up some very good points.)

Maybe when I get home from work I'll look through the article again with a more judgmental eye.
 
Killishandra said:
Yeah, you and Caela have good points here...

Sorry to say, I didn't research the authenticity of this article. Just saw it, it looked interesting, and I posted it for others to discuss (which you all are doing, and bringing up some very good points.)

Maybe when I get home from work I'll look through the article again with a more judgmental eye.
Click to expand...

Hey dont apologise, you didnt write it. It is interesting as a subject for discussion.
I would be curious to see what effect SSRI's have on a controlled group of male dominants...and how the drugs actually effected their performance, sexual satisfaction and enjoyment...
mmm contolled double blind study anyone.
We would need an equal number of doms and their subs.... and at least 4 to 6 weeks for the drugs to peak..
 
There have been many studies concerning this issue, you might want to look up (google) Michael McGuire. One consideration that I forgot is that when serotonin levels get much higher people become manic where they believe they can conquer the world, really anything, often in an irrational way. It's easily seen in political leaders when megalomania sets in, even business leaders who become irrational. The saying "power corrupts" comes to mind. It's suggested that when a dominant male wins a fight his serotonin levels go up by a large amount (40 percent or more) to make him slightly manic thinking he's the king of the hill and can conquer the world. It helps or perhaps motivates him to stay at the top. I don't really think it is the source of his aggression, rather it makes him think he can win and therefore more likely to act on his aggressive urges, well perhaps this does make him more aggressive but in an indirect way.

Edit: I didn't read this carefully, went straight to the section with references to McGuire, just noticed the reference to female dominant Vervet monkeys, not one of my interests in any way, but might make for interesting discussion. In any case, the discussion is well cited:
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/vecase/Behavior/Spring2003/PerezHeydrich/Social Relationships.htm

Killishandra said:
Yeah, you and Caela have good points here...

Sorry to say, I didn't research the authenticity of this article. Just saw it, it looked interesting, and I posted it for others to discuss (which you all are doing, and bringing up some very good points.)

Maybe when I get home from work I'll look through the article again with a more judgmental eye.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Hi. I don't know very much about this and I don't know how to judge the scientific studies, but this is what I understand. In animals (mouse, primate, even trout, crayfish (what cool research!) ?!), serotonin levels have been shown in many instances to promote social status, while a decrease in serotonin levels increases aggression and irritability. One example of this is that the rate of serotonin degradation is higher in mice that have suffered defeats in the face of social conflict.

I have to agree with Gallant that from what was written it sounds like the increased levels of serotonin are an after effect of being in a dominant situation than the cause.
Click to expand...

I think it's probably a combination of cause and consequence, since in the human studies, they have delivered serotonin, either as SSRI or in other forms, an monitored behaviour. In these studies, the subjects become 'significantly less submissive' after treatment. But in contrast, stress can change patterns of serotinergic activity in the brain.

I think this has interesting consequences for changing social ranking positions among males. For instance if you administer any extra serotonin to a dictator on a power trip. Also, I think it is quite almost paradoxical that the serotonin decreases quarelsome behaviour, alongside the increase in dominance. As other people have mentioned, the neuroendocrine system is highly complex. It's amzing that I guess some studies are hinting that intervening with this system through pharmaceuticals can change social structure. (Sorry for the exaggeration, but I like the scare factor involved here ;0)

Yeah, so also I think it's important to differentiate between dominance in the BDSM sense and all-round social dominance, though I accept there will be a strong correlation bewteen being a dom and having a fundamentally dominant personality.
 
mysteryinc said:
Hi. I don't know very much about this and I don't know how to judge the scientific studies, but this is what I understand. In animals (mouse, primate, even trout, crayfish (what cool research!) ?!), serotonin levels have been shown in many instances to promote social status, while a decrease in serotonin levels increases aggression and irritability. One example of this is that the rate of serotonin degradation is higher in mice that have suffered defeats in the face of social conflict.



I think it's probably a combination of cause and consequence, since in the human studies, they have delivered serotonin, either as SSRI or in other forms, an monitored behaviour. In these studies, the subjects become 'significantly less submissive' after treatment. But in contrast, stress can change patterns of serotinergic activity in the brain.

I think this has interesting consequences for changing social ranking positions among males. For instance if you administer any extra serotonin to a dictator on a power trip. Also, I think it is quite almost paradoxical that the serotonin decreases quarelsome behaviour, alongside the increase in dominance. As other people have mentioned, the neuroendocrine system is highly complex. It's amzing that I guess some studies are hinting that intervening with this system through pharmaceuticals can change social structure. (Sorry for the exaggeration, but I like the scare factor involved here ;0)

Yeah, so also I think it's important to differentiate between dominance in the BDSM sense and all-round social dominance, though I accept there will be a strong correlation bewteen being a dom and having a fundamentally dominant personality.
Click to expand...
======================================================

i don't know anything about science projects either. but i DO know i am just naturally hostile in the vanilla world and i have made many a boss scared coz i don't take back lip. i am naturally a domineering alpha male. i am totally defiant and refuse to buckle under to anyone. i was taught in a paternal household that males are supposed to BE dominant!!!!!!!

i have no answers either.

wolf
 
The article doesn't provide a mechanism, or causal relation for the correlation between rise or fall in serotonin and rise or fall in testosterone.

Serotonin is suspected (and even implicated) in more reactions (particularly hormonal) than just causing 'happy' feelings. Nor are such complex emotional states likely governed entirely by blood levels of a single protein.

The relation between rises in Serotonin levels and vasoconstriction (veinous) on erection could be a significant item.

Erection is caused by vasodilation of the arteries supplying the penis, and vasoconstriction of veins draining it. Thus creating a congestive state in the corpora cavernosum. More blood tries to flow in, but can't flow out.

That's why a cock ring works as it does, restricting the exiting blood flow.

Serotonin is corrolated with sleep cycles, and I will note from a personal level that with sleep deprivation I tend to get fuller (sometimes uncomfortable) erections that are more persistent.

A brief nap (less than an hour) after staying up all night contributes to this even more. Sleep itself has some effect on serotonin and on testosterone production.
 
As for the article, I can only say that I tend to be skeptical of any attempt to link such a complex human behavior as "dominance" to a single causal factor, in this case serotonin. But I will leave that for the behavioral scientists to worry about.

I do not want to hijack this thread, but I found the following comment by sexymom very provocative:


sexymom wrote:

There is also an attempt to link dominance with sexuality by innuendo. I don't know of many people in real life who see bdsm as a primarily sexual thing, since vanillas often tend to have more active, and satisfying, sex lives than people in the bdsm world. Many people get interested in bdsm because it is a sex substitute.

I have recently been thinking about just this issue, the link between dominance and sex, in my own relationship, and I would really like to here other's thoughts about this. I suspect that many here would take issue with several of sexymom's statements.

Maybe this should be taken up as a separate thread. sexymom, would you be interested in starting a thread on this topic, or would you mind if I used your ideas to do so?

Thanks, Tollo
 
Reply to Tollo

I am, for the most part, a responder rather than an initiator- I'm never sure if anyone else is interested in my ideas; but if someone else posts something that I have thoughts about, I readily respond.

I certainly would have no objection to your starting a thread about the subject- it is something that has long interested me: to what degree is D/s or bdsm a sexual pursuit, maybe?

E
 
sexymom, thanks. I will start a thread and see if any others are as interested in this as you and I. Watch for it in the next day or so...

I will get out of here now and let those who want to discuss the actual thread topic continue.

Tollo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DomBETO
A glass of wine never hurts... or does it?
Replies
16
Views
2K
flameinsidesoul
F
GrushaVashnadze
What category, please?
Replies
7
Views
176
BobbyBrandt
BobbyBrandt
L
Discipline and Punishment
2
Replies
44
Views
4K
cascadiabound
cascadiabound
F
Why do I want her to impregnate me? How do I further stimulate her dominant side?
Replies
10
Views
2K
Yankee0717
Y
TheArsonist
Book packagers and "fiction factories"
Replies
9
Views
366
JGittes
J
Back
Top